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23:00
oh... ok ... A lazy programmer with a badly desynchronised internal clock and rather peculiar sense of humour.
@webarto Lol. How do you infer that?
Yes, I'm picking on PHP more than on other languages. But that's because I believe it's actively harmful to everyone.
@CatPlusPlus to be honest, the part of your behaviour that is observable through that blog post and this discussion seems rather arrogant to me as well
Good. I always wanted to be more arrogant. I hear it's good for your self-esteem.
(Also, you're taking it way too seriously.)
actually, arrogance is mostly a sign of low self-esteem
Claiming someone versed in PHP is not respectable for not knowing other languages is just as illogical as you bashing PHP without being versed in it
23:02
@CatPlusPlus it is bad, majority of users are making it worse... but some are trying to make it better, and they are here in this chatroom...
@markustharkun Oh? Damn. I've been lied to. :(
I want my money back.
@CatPlusPlus That's something you're right about :)
He's just pissed because Cats can't write PHP. Now back to your ball of string you!
@orourkek It's not about respectability (what the hell is that anyway), it's about having experience with different things, and being able to tell which one of those things is worse than the others.
23:05
I do have some language design knowledge, and I know several languages, that's why the claims in that blog post are so hilarious to me.
@CatPlusPlus Yeah, because the people in here, with more PHP experience than you, are really going to value your situational opinions more than their own experiences and efforts?
Define "more PHP experience".
@CatPlusPlus You might appreciate looking to your right and clicking the "PHP: The good parts" link ;)
I know php. I also know js (and node.js) and I like PHP better because... well. I know it better. Productivity goes a long way. I also know many other languages, however I generally choose to code in the one that i'm most productive in. This is the fallacy of PHP, too many people are productive in PHP
Just like when you responded to credibility questions by reversing the argument. Which actually just weakened your position by validating the point...
23:06
@CatPlusPlus Did you know that @NikiC and @ircmaxell write code for PHP source? I highly doubt you have more experience with the language than them.
No no, I answered it first, then made fun of it.
@rlemon There are much better reasons not to like node.js ^^
@LeviMorrison Yes, I know.
@NikiC lol hey now.. it has it's place.
And writing language implementation doesn't mean that much, sorry.
23:06
just like PHP!!!
@rlemon It has a very small niche
Especially if the implementation is a large project, and one or two people cannot know all the quirks.
@CatPlusPlus having a witty name and a blog doesn't mean much... sorry.
But crazy people try to use node.js for normal code
For which it absolutely sucks
yes
agreed
23:07
Hey, I wrote a chat server in node.js and it works fine.
@CatPlusPlus Chat is one of the applications that node.js is really awesome. But that's pretty much it
@CatPlusPlus so, are you an idealist who is really bothered by the existence of PHP and thinks the world would be better of, if it didn't exist?
Basically anything that needs long polling ;)
@markustharkun Yes.
however i'm now dabbling with using node.js for a small server in an embedded environment for remote control over a process control system and the I/O based event model helps a lot.
23:08
Long polling? I resent that accusation.
@CatPlusPlus I'd appreciate it if you would leave or settle down. This is considered home for many of the users here, and coming in and bashing them all without being remotely kind is not welcome here.
just trying to establish your motives, because your blog post wasn't very refined but maybe your motives are
@LeviMorrison I like @Cat
@LeviMorrison Who am I bashing? I'm always trying to get some proper arguments, and you people are always handwaving them.
But whatever. Always have fun, nothing else matters. Bye.
@CatPlusPlus Please don't include me in 'you people'. I've said nothing this whole time except the remark about a few individuals who work on PHP source.
23:10
cat fight
The PHP community is too much like the Ubuntu community. you will get nay sayers... but guess what.. they probably go home and hide in their closets and PHP the fuck outta that shizznat. but stop being so sensitive... i mean this is the internet after all.
when "you people" enters the argument, all seriousness is lost :P
@NikiC It's not that I don't like him either. He was creating havoc in a peaceful room of my home,
I do practically live here.
lol
I start every day with "rejoin favourite rooms" which PHP is a part of.
PHP, JS, CSS, and jQuery - (last two because i'm the creator of the rooms) however my day job is C and C++ development (sometimes C#.NET if I am working with a windows client)
I don't like the C++ room. those guys are strange.
23:13
> > If you have a look at the top three CMSes, for the websites that use a monitored content management system: Wordpress is first with 54.3%, Joomla is second with 9.2%, and Drupal is third with 6.8%. Three products written in PHP.
> And, coincidentally, three products with an amazing security track record. You should have mentioned phpBB and osCommerce, too.
Jul 6 at 16:41, by rlemon
WORDPRESS IS NOT A CMS!!!
ok technically it is... but not in the sense people use it for.
I don't want to dig into CatPlusPlus's post too much, but I really wish that people would stop equating product security to bad language . . .
I don't care WHAT language you are using.
and it is exactly what PHP shouldn't be in 2012
@LeviMorrison +1 (albeit not star worthy) :P
@LeviMorrison plus of course the obvious bias that a product which is used by so many is also under though 'security' scrutiny
23:16
@CatPlusPlus ever used ASP.NET? try that shit and tell me PHP isn't nice
3
> > PHP 5.4, comes with all the bells and whistles you might dream of in a modern web language
> How about a strong type system? Whoops.
^ Does he not realize that some of the greatest programmers who've been around for years use interpreted languages?
I realize that strong typing !== interpreted language, but I'm guessing that's what he meant.
I like to see how this room responds much in the same way [to a rant] as ours does. I'm thoroughly convinced that the room regulars have 'what it takes' and they don't need to feel addressed.
There a lot of crappy C#, Java, C++ programmers making those languages look bad, just the same.
You can come into out room and bash c++. We'll simply agree that the language has (major) flaws. But it is evolving, has many merits and a niche in which it is hard to beat/replace. Voila :)
actually, I think, taking his post apart gives him too much credit, it's a stupid, biased, non-constructive rant and should be ignored
@sehe I think this room will say the same about PHP ;)
@LeviMorrison No, it wasn't. He knows what a strong type system is.
@LeviMorrison Appeal to authority fallacy.
23:20
@DeadMG Robert C Martin. Know him? Thought so.
@NikiC I know that. That's why I like the room too. Unsurprisingly, the room is actually a lot better than the language in my opinion.
On that note, bedtime for me, farewell
@LeviMorrison Who cares? It's an appeal to authority fallacy no matter what name you drop.
@DeadMG How old are you, again?
Why are you coming into this room and starting flame wars?
@LeviMorrison Do you even know what an appeal to authority fallacy is?
a flame war would consist of me insulting you, rather than responding to you with a rational statement.
@DeadMG You aren't even trying to be constructive. Don't pretend.
Go back to your C++ room.
23:23
you're right, I was being totally non-constructive by coming in here and raising my rational points.
@DeadMG Just because they are rational does not make them constructive.
no, what makes them constructive is that they are completely valid and rational and directed at exactly the appropriate thing- the arguments put forth, rather than the person proposing them.
@DeadMG actually, the way he puts it, it's not strictly an appeal to authority fallacy, because he's not trying to prove a point but asking a valid question...
now the cat could say, yes I know these programmers but I don't agree with them
@markustharkun Well, I guess that strictly, the question "Do you know who Robert C Martin is?" is valid. But it doesn't exactly refute the point or raise an argument of it's own.
@DeadMG true
23:26
@DeadMG It was a joke.
hey
you're supposed to support me
alas, traitorously backstabbed by my closest ally...
my heart is now bleeding all over the PHP room
@sehe +1
/votekick
why not just combine the two languages into PHP++ then we can all agree on something.
we're screwed
23:33
well, they do say that end of the world is in 2012
no they ran out of rock.
that is the problem with a circular calendar.
The world will end when the Cylons rise.
@rlemon That it is an horrible hybrid that manages to suck more than both!
An amazing achievement, no doubt.
yup. I'm taking the coffeeScript approach to language development.
Hipsters love me
while(1){die;}
@rlemon Oh god, the mere thought of it...#
23:39
lol
##php++
#include <stupid/PEAR.h>
stackoverflow.com/questions/11443111/… temped to write, just use PHP
however I wonder how many people understand this is a joke... and is in fact making fun of jQuery.
I used jQuery before it was cool
"I'm creating a signup form in jQuery / PHP / HTML", it's even better (worse) than PHP...
23:44
╭∩╮(︶︿︶)╭∩╮ - all I have to say
XBOX SUCKS, I HATE XBOX, WORST CONSOLE EVER.
see what i did there ^^
I'm a Javascript evangelist. I don't write Much JS for work... but almost all of my 'free time' coding is JS

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