« first day (2795 days earlier)      last day (2165 days later) » 

7:02 PM
@Danack You have a Mac, right? I have an external drive I use on my Windows PC at work and at home. I also have a MacBook Pro I usually only use for music but I installed phpStorm on it. What should I use to be able to use the drive on both Windows and MacOS?
I know formatting to FAT32 restricts my file sizes to 4GB. I could partition the drive, but I am hoping there is some other solution I am not aware of.
 
you should have installed linux instead
 
@StatikStasis exFAT
 
I used to duel boot, but I just didn't use Linux enough at home to continue doing it.
 
no, I meant on the macbook
 
@Allenph I was just reading that NTFS was readable on new versions of OSX but it doesn't mount automatically. Seems I can mount it in terminal. I'll try that.
 
7:12 PM
@StatikStasis If you don't mind moving your data over...I'm telling you...exFAT is going to be your jam for an external drive.
 
@tereško I would need to research whether there are any audio driver issues with Logic Pro X, Ableton Live 10, and Mainstage 3. Audio driver issues when making Hackintosh systems is what kept me from just buying a laptop and putting OSX on it.
 
Max file size is measured in EB.
 
@Allenph I don't have much data on this drive yet- this is possible. I'll have to see when I get home.
Yeah- it's like some ungodly amount.
 
@StatikStasis why the fuck would you use OSX?
why would you want to use it ?!
 
Sorry...
I shouldn't have said that. I'm using High Sierra I believe.
I just got it two months ago and still getting used to their nomenclature for OS versions.
 
7:15 PM
... I think the brain damage has already set in
 
He meant just using Mac in general @StatikStasis.
 
I ONLY got it for music.
I've never been a fan of them but... Logic Pro is the standard so...
 
Seems like you wasted a ton of money then. xD
 
It was quite a lot... which is why I wanted to build a Hackintosh instead... the audio driver issues was what made me hesitant.
 
I would recommend against making a Hackintosh for anything other than the fun of doing it.
You're way better off just getting used to Linux.
 
7:18 PM
I read they had got a lot better. The opportunity to get more power out of a custom built laptop and run macOS on it was very appealing.
 
"More power"
 
I hate most things proprietary.
I used Reason for a while because of this.
 
@StatikStasis That explains why you want to build a Hackintosh. :p
 
Trying to see if anyone has made it possible to run Logic Pro X on Linux.
Seems the closest thing so far is Darling... but from what I have read it's not close to being able to run macOS apps yet.
@Allenph Is exFAT as unreliable as what I've been reading?
 
@StatikStasis Theoretically there is a higher risk of corruption, but...
In practice...no.
 
7:33 PM
k
 
Do your own research though.
I'm not responsible for however you mess it up.
 
Nope- taking your word for it. Will let this define future recommendations from you. =P
No worries- I'll read up before deciding best approach. I might just buy another drive and call it a day.
 
!!dad
 
Did you hear the one about !false It's funny coz it's true.
 
!!skeet
 
7:41 PM
Jon Skeet doesn't play god. Playing is for children.
 
8:01 PM
@bwoebi I just realized that the inheritance checks for aliased classes behave differently under opcache
If the classes are early-bound, then it won't know any runtime aliases...
I guess it usually doesn't matter, because for the situations you care about when using aliases you will never have early-binding for the inheriting class
Reported bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=76451. /cc @LeviMorrison might be interesting to you, as it's related to variance issues
In any case, I'm not sure which option we should choose for typed properties...
I think given how it's generally pretty useless to redeclare properties in inheriting classes anyway, and there is this inconsistency, we might want to keep the current behavior of just not allowing aliases.
 
Aliases during inheritance type checks affected by opcache – #76451
 
8:19 PM
@bwoebi Another thing, I think we should not give a default null value to nullable types
It's weird that non-nullable properties start out uninitialized, while nullable properties start out null
I think there is a legit use-case for a nullable property that starts out uninitialized (to force initialization), but under the current implementation there is no way to do that
 
@NikiC It simplifies the semantcis a bit … and it's not that hard to set = null in the decl, so why not
 
!!reminder Time to go home in 32 minutes
 
Reminder 42887563 is set.
 
@bwoebi okay, done
<?php

class A {
    public callable $cb;

    public function __construct() {
        $this->cb = [$this, 'method'];
    }

    private function method() {
        echo __METHOD__, "\n";
    }
}

$a = new A;
($a->cb)();
@bwoebi ^
Type satisfied at time of write, not satisfied at time of read
I think we need to forbid use of callable
 
8:39 PM
@NikiC solvable by making callable an actual type rather than a pseudo-type which it is now
 
@ircmaxell yes. solvable now by hinting Closure instead
And using Closure::fromCallable()
Which is the robust way of making sure something stays callable, even if it has no syntax-level support yet
 
PHP is going to be linked with an external PCRE, --with-pcre-valgrind has no ef – #76454
 
yeah, definitely
 
9:00 PM
@StatikStasis Time to go home
 
9:14 PM
@PeeHaa I would like to make something like Jeeves but to use in Slack.
 
9:26 PM
sounds like twitter was compromised
 
@ircmaxell ?
 
I dunno, haven't found any information
but my wife got an email from them to change her password, and onepassword said there was a breach, but unclear what
 
oh :-(
 
@ircmaxell probably an old email. Cause there was a compromise a bit while ago.
 
@mega6382 this came through seconds ago
 
9:41 PM
@ircmaxell Then it might just be isolated to her account.
 
onepass aren't likely to start sending shit out for no good reason
although I suppose there's always the possibility that some of the logged plaintext pws from the last incident have made it into the wild
Anyone got any objection to JSON_DISCARD_ZERO_FRACTION as an option for json_decode(), which would cause 3v4l.org/oCCV0 to be an int? (or a better name)
 
9:58 PM
looks like voting on fiber goes about as well as I would have expected
 
Slow MySQL perfomance via named pipe on PHP x64 – #76458
 
user379888
10:15 PM
Guys. I know its offtopic on PHP but I want to know whats a good flavor of Linux to install for enthusiasts?
 
@FahadUddin what do you want to do with it/use it for?
 
user379888
I heard good programmers try new things. I want to try and get used to Linux based OS.
 
user379888
I have been a Windows user all my life.
 
user379888
and yes be able to do programming in Linux and learn shell
 
I am a RHEL fan, and therefore recommend Fedora for workstations and CentOS for servers. However, I can't honestly say that they are better (or worse) than the alternatives, they are just what I am used to/comfortable with.
 
user379888
10:19 PM
How about Ubuntu?
 
I suppose one of the main things you should look for if you are just starting out is a good support community, so probably one of those that I mentioned or ubuntu are your best bet
i.e. go for a popular one so that you have plenty of people to ask about when you screw it up (which you will, and that's fine)
@FahadUddin I don't get on with it but like I say, that's mostly just because it's not what I'm used to
 
user379888
@DaveRandom: Thanks
 
yw
@FahadUddin btw another important thing, I guess, is that is your main objective is learning how to work with servers then you should install something without a desktop environment
 
user379888
What does that mean?
 
user379888
You mean no GUI?
 
10:25 PM
@FahadUddin how old are you? do you remember windows 95/98?
 
user379888
Yeah I spent quite some time with Windows 98. Not 95 though.
 
user379888
I am 26.
 
do you remember how they used to be structured so that you could "exit to DOS"?
and you would just be left with a command prompt?
 
user379888
Yeah you mean no GUI
 
user379888
GUI = Graphical User Interface.
 
10:28 PM
yes, the main OS GUI is the "desktop environment"
servers tend not to have one
because it would be a waste of resources
 
user379888
Ok. Thanks.
 
user379888
Thanks for the advice. I am trying to write hello world apps in all programming languages that are being used widely and also use new technologies and frameworks.
 
user379888
I am done setting up most major technologies on Windows. Will get my hands dirty with Linux, try OS X on Virtual Machine and do some swift and Objective C programming with it.
 
well that's fine and good if that's what you want to do, but I will say that sounds more like you are learning sysadmin/devops stuff than programming
which is totally fine if that's what you want to do
but you are going spend a lot of time configuring things and not much time learning programming that way
 
@DaveRandom Any leads for July 2nd yet?
 
10:32 PM
a couple, yeah :-)
 
nice!
 
tbh I haven't been looking that actively yet because a few things found me so I'm going to follow those up first :-P
 
That's always good when you can get something lined up as the other chapter ends.
That's even better when that happens!
 
if I'm honest the main reason I'm here rn is because I'm procrastinating instead of working on my CV
 
What is CV?
 
10:34 PM
oh, resume
 
Curriculum Vitae because the english apparently think latin is cool
iirc it means roughly "story of life"
 
I hate doing those. I try to update mine while I have a job every couple of years because if I need it I am usually not in a place where I feel like doing it or being positive about it.
@DaveRandom That's interesting- never heard it called this before.
 
the main issue I'm having is that I haven't actually used one for nearly a decade
I have just rolled into jobs through existing contacts and largely bypassed the interview process
which is cool, but a side effect is that the most recent doc I have looks like an 18yo wrote it (which is not that far from the truth)
 
I don't know how it is there, but here making them stand out somehow without making it unprofessional is good. I have to sort through a lot of them but when they look alike it's easy to overlook them.
@DaveRandom With your skill set this might be what happens through your whole life- but it still doesn't hurt to brush up on it.
 
10:38 PM
@StatikStasis as irrelevant as it is in reality I feel like the fact that I can put an @php.net email addr at the top is a huge win in that regard :-P
 
Definitely.
In reality- it's not irrelevant.
 
@DaveRandom I wonder if some people think that you're messing with them with the email
 
@StatikStasis I'm pretty sure it is tbh, all it means is that I have made enough small contributions to annoy someone into saying "oh ffs, do it yourself"
 
Regardless of how programmers talk bad about one language over another, the developments that php has taken with introducing OOP as well many other additions- it cannot be ignored that good coders do come out of php.
 
oh yeh I have problem with confidence in my programming ability, much less so with other key skills though. Mostly team-working related - not that I'm necessarily bad at it, I'm just not that experienced
and I am chronically disorganised
 
10:44 PM
C# users put down php, C++ put down C#, Assembly coders brag about how low level they are. At the end of the day if you can really code- it's just learning the syntax of other languages. Having a php.net address is definitely something that puts you above most.
@DaveRandom Eh- if you have the skills you can wing the rest.
I've listened to you talk in here plenty- you definitely know what you're doing. You should NOT feel un-confident <-- is that a word.
@DaveRandom Trying to find a comic that this reminded me of.
 
@NikiC we should make callable adhere to the specified visibility - if it can be called from anywhere, visibility is ignored. If it can only be called from protected scope, it must be protected or private. If it can be only called from private scope, it must be private
 
@DaveRandom Well this isn't it- but it will do images-cdn.9gag.com/photo/azj2w1z_700b.jpg
 
@NikiC It's maybe not the most simple thing to do, but probably the most useful
@DaveRandom In German you call that just Lebenslauf … but the French and Englishmen … pfff
 
what's "lauf"?
@StatikStasis mmhmm
 
@DaveRandom Literally, a course
you know, compound words in German :-)
 
10:52 PM
yeh, I can usually manage to pick out the boundaries my vocab isn't that great
 
user379888
A CV is more focused for educational stuff and a resume is good for job seeking but in different countries they are used interchangeably.
 
user379888
Here in Pakistan most companies use CV too. Though they never read the 4-5 pages the job seeker writes about himself so I am always selected writing a one page resume which I learned from careercup.com
 
@FahadUddin that's sort of weird, since afaik none of the locally spoken languages are derived from latin in any way :-P
 
@DaveRandom no love for globalization?
 
or is it like a lot of places where english is the defacto standard lowest-common-denominator language?
@bwoebi no it just seems like an obscure thing to inherit from another language, esp. since it's seems very archaic even to me as a native english speaker
 
user379888
10:56 PM
Pakistan/India was ruled by the British 70 years ago so both countries have a huge footprint of office work being done like that in British
 
yeh I guess
sorry about that btw
 
user379888
lol
 
I feel like I should apologise to... well, most of the world really
 
@DaveRandom well seriously, English has more words of Latin root than German does...
it just is sometimes more obscure to actually trace the root back
 
user379888
I was reading history a while back, I read somewhere subcontinent(India, Pakistan, Bangladesh etc combined) was a very big economy at one point.
 
10:58 PM
but there are quite some more exotic words which I just recognize with knowledge of French and Latin
in German you're usually SOL when encountering unknown words
 
Still looking for that other one...
 
@StatikStasis so true
 
user379888
Do you guys think 80/20 rule applies to programming languages as well? 80% of the programming is being done by 20% of the programming languages?
 
@FahadUddin well sure, that would account for like 1/4 of the population of earth :-P
@FahadUddin I would say it's more like 95/5
possibly even narrower
 
Well... I cannot find the other comic I was looking for. The wife has called me twice to come eat- I better go before she calls me a third time. =P
 
user379888
11:05 PM
The list of programming languages is huge..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_programming_languages
 
@StatikStasis tnx anyway, if it's any consolation I have definitely seen it at some point because I once spent >1day going through xkcd from start to finish :-P
 
user379888
I am focused on trying JavaScript, PHP, Ruby, Java, Solidity, Swift, Objective C, Python.
 
user379888
I think the above list cover up a huge portion of programming if C and C++ is added to it.
 
I would state with a reasonable amount of confidence (based on pretty much no evidence), that PHP, Java, C++ and C# account for around 75% of new code
 
user379888
Yeah. I agree.
 
user379888
11:11 PM
I sometimes wonder why PHP is not being used for other things than being used on server? Isn't JavaScript also a scripting language but they are doing amazing stuff with it these days. Just trying to use it almost anywhere.
 
PHP is well suited to server-side applications, the tooling just isn't there for other things, and there are plenty of options which are typically both mature and better suited for any given "other type" of application
 
user379888
We can raise similar arguments for JavaScript too.
 
user379888
JavaScript was doing fine on the front end and there were already nice backend languages.
 
user379888
They are also making web based games, android/ios apps with JavaScript now.
 
well yes, and I'm deliberately avoiding that topic because it's both complex and contentious :-P
 
11:15 PM
@DaveRandom s/java/javascript?
 
suffice it to say that JS is not my favourite programming language
 
user379888
Oh sorry.
 
@Danack definitely not as a replacement but maybe as an addition to the list
 
@DaveRandom It was on /r/ProgrammerHumor
@FahadUddin Your scope is too big. What do you want to do? What is your end result of what you would like to be doing in 5 years as it relates to coding?
 
I am inclined to agree ^
pick a language and "learn to code", once you've got the mindset and the principles down, picking up other languages is pretty simple, mostly just a case of learning syntax, scope and typing rules
 
11:24 PM
writes hello world program in Java- adds Java to resume
 
I can write Java but I have no fucking clue how to concoct a command line to run it
 
I've never used Java. I started to years ago but after spending a couple of hours trying to figure out whether I had all of the necessary files I needed downloaded- I went and did something else and never returned to it.
 
imagine C#, only not as good
 
lol- when I think of Java though I think of Minecraft.
I wonder how much Minecraft helped to steer some would-be coders to Java.
 
interface Constraint
{
    function test($value): bool;
}
I don't like that method name, suggestions please
 
11:34 PM
inspect, assess
 
ugh
I will just leave it as is and hate it forever, coming up with a better name immediately after tagging a stable release
you know the usual
I think I need to go to bed anyway
nn
 
night
@DaveRandom I must have missed this one this past month- so funny. i.redditmedia.com/…
 
@DaveRandom Rule? Though tbh, I can't see what's wrong with constraint....
 
I thought the method name was test.
Constraint the name of the interface.
 

« first day (2795 days earlier)      last day (2165 days later) »