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Wes
Wes
00:04
\o
dunno, i'm not qualified on the matter... but sure that is strange af
i'm still trying to work out the semantics of in-method operations
https://dev.to/wesnetmo/the-problem-of-3rd-parties-accessing-invalid-state-352n
http://www.yegor256.com/2015/12/08/temporal-coupling-between-method-calls.html
(a bit of context)
what i'm doing is locking the object while a method is being executed
public function any_method(){ $this->lock(); /* actual method here */ $this->unlock(); }
methods from the very same class are allowed to call themselves. so locks only apply to third parties
but e.g. i can do recursion without encountering locks
but there's much more than that i'm not sure i'm developing the correct semantics to this
for example delegation to third parties

return locking(function(){ return $this->wrappee->baz($this); });
wrappee won't be able to access $this, because it is locked
that might be correct though, it smells like bad design
i know you, you know me... doesn't look like proper layering, right?
the locking function i'm using is this github.com/Netmosfera/Loco/blob/master/src/Loco.php#L56
just throwing this out there, in case someone wants to jump in the discussion :B
i think this is important, it's like demeter's law up to eleven. and i'm very interested in knowing if i can let the programming language force me write better code
 
2 hours later…
02:20
@Wes yeah, I won't deny that it's weird...
ADHD brain does some strange things, it's a blessing and a curse
Wes
Wes
it's strangely unsophisticated of a solution for the 21st century :B
mornings o/
Wes
Wes
i'm watching homesteading videos
because
 
2 hours later…
04:42
MORNING room.
Happy Sunday
\o
 
3 hours later…
07:23
3 hours passed and still there is no new message over.
08:00
vulnerary used to promote the healing of wounds, as herbs or other remedies.
08:48
@Linus aren't Shafizadeh's questions better than nothing? :P
Anonymous
no
10:06
@stack no
10:19
Hello, I'm new to this room. I need some help to understand what is happening: practically I have a server built this way: nginx as a reverse proxy for Apache and php with php-fpm... now, I have troubles with accent letters. The script is working and the database is setup correctly, because in my local development everything works: accented letters remain as they are in URLs. Instead, in the production machine, they become "?" in urls. Database and php aren't the problem because I tested them in my local machine and works...
10:57
@Optiroot you need to URL-encode them, is root of your problem
afaik nginx and apache will not mangle them in any way, they just treat the request URI as a binary string, comparisons are done byte-wise
however, you should always ensue that data transmitted in the head of an HTTP message (i.e. all header keys/values and the request line) are ASCII
!!canon utf8
904
Q: UTF-8 all the way through

mercutio I'm setting up a new server, and want to support UTF-8 fully in my web application. I have tried in the past on existing servers and always seem to end up having to fall back to ISO-8859-1. Where exactly do I need to set the encoding/charsets? I'm aware that I need to configure Apache, MySQL an...

something somewhere is either failing to transmit the data in the correct encoding, or failing to declare the encoding it is using, or declaring it incorrectly
I'm also wondering why you have the added complication of Apache in your setup though, can you not just make nginx talk directly to fpm and reduce the number of things to go wrong in your stack?
mornings v2 o/
@SaitamaSama Why the new major? Is this version not backwards compatible with the previous release?
if so I will not be upgrading
meh... v1.0.1-alpha* :P
11:10
"minimum-stability": "stable"
then, no mornings for you then :-P
11:25
Morngins
mornin
11:54
morning
12:16
Morning.
 
1 hour later…
13:26
tumbleweed
Wes
Wes
not found
i'm not a 10ker
:( give us a screenshot @James
@Wes loser.
Wes
Wes
i am
14:01
I remember that question:)
Wes
Wes
how do you see it
This came up all of a sudden: Warning: session_start(): open(/var/lib/php/sessions/sess_gtnppighqnqvglmhj2ffipkcs4, O_RDWR) failed: Permission denied (13) in /var/www/Vitopia/bootstrap.php on line 2
All I did was change the root directory of 000-default to another folder.
@Wes i cannot see but i remember it :B
it's because the user running the web server does not have permission to create the session file that session_start does
@CoderDudeTwodee What are the permissions for /var/lib/php/sessions?
Also, what user are you running PHP/Apache with?
14:11
4.0K drwx-wx-wt 2 root root 4.0K Jan 21 19:39 .
4.0K drwxr-xr-x 4 root root 4.0K Jun 19 2017 ..
@MadaraUchiha This problem never came up before, I have been using LAMP for years now, it works fine if I don't use that folder as the document root and use that as a virtualhost
@CoderDudeTwodee Owned by root and no read access
I'm not sure why it suddenly happens, but I'm almost sure that's the problem.
Weird, that never happened.
Did that document root changing have anything to do with that?
Wes
Wes
@Linus WHAT IS IT
4.0K drwx-wx-wt 2 www-data www-data 4.0K Jan 21 19:39 .
4.0K drwxr-xr-x 4 root     root     4.0K Jun 19  2017 ..
Fixed, I guess.
@CoderDudeTwodee Maybe there were default settings that stored the sessions in a place where you have access to, but when you changed the folder it overrode them?
14:17
@Wes PeeHaa posted a question from rebecca friday song ,which seat should i take? and i think @kelunik has screen shot for that.
Wes
Wes
lol
@Linus hm?
@kelunik afaik you posted screenshot for this stackoverflow.com/questions/33033235/… please link to Wes.
Sorry if i am wrong.
@Linus No, and can't see the question.
ah then sorry for ping.
14:23
Hello world!
I just earned my chat privilege!
Wes
Wes
bitcoin plummetin again
buhahaha
Wes
Wes
hello welcome to the chat, we are sorry in advance for the insanity
it's ~$12k
I think my brother bought some at $9k, a few days ago
@Wes Change over 1h is still positive though
Wes
Wes
14:26
i am planning to sell at 14k. i doubt it will ever happen :B
if 20k could happen 14k... pfft
@Wes Don't think it will by this point.
I think it'll either flatline or drop, until the next time people remember it's a thing and it'll explode again.
And I have just lost my chat privilege, it seems. But I'm still here.
Okay, I posted a heavily downvoted question, but got a good answer, which I upvoted and marked as correct. Should I delete my downvoted question, or keep it?
Aaaand my question has been put on hold. Delete it?
@JonathonPhilipChambers No.
Deleted questions count extra towards a question ban.
So, I should leave it on hold indefinitely?
The question is getting 4 votes up and 6 votes down, and I accepted an answer. By stackoverflow logic, I'm netted 6 reputation points up, for my question voted twice down. So if I delete it, I lose 6 points. But I do accept the charge of it being too opinion based to be allowed here.
14:47
Deleting questions is frowned upon
Yes, but so is asking for opinions
Wes
Wes
@Tiffany really? :B
there are a few reasons but my brain isn't as awake as I thought it was
holy fuck my volume is too loud
My understanding is if I have a really awesome question, and get an amazing answer, if I delete it, no one will ever have that answer ever again. But if I don't delete it, that answer will be preserved for future generations.
14:49
BUT, if I have a really shitty question, I'm essentially wasting space, time, and bandwidth.
Though in my situation, where I have a somewhat shitty question appreciated by a select minority... it gets confusing.
The other side of it is it can be seen as you trying to avoid being downvoted. Plus it gives an example to future generations of how to not word a question
Wes
Wes
ah the future generations
I thought that was the point. This community is created and modified by programmers who can create an un-cheatable system. If they didn't want people deleting posts to avoid down votes, they'd make down votes stick to deleted questions.

I expect most of them have studied game theory, and deleting shitty questions is exactly the sort of behaviour I think they were trying to encourage when this website was built.
I think the philosophy has changed a bit since then
Wes
Wes
if question was useful, they wouldn't be downvoting it
imho
14:53
when SO first started, there weren't many questions... but now it's becoming a veritable repository of info
Wes
Wes
so, i'd delete it
@JonathonPhilipChambers Deleting downvoted posts is gaming the system
Your example of behavior is off
Instead of just deleting crap (which it indeed does) it introduces a way to ask stupid questions without any penalty
And that's not a behavior we should encourage
TL;DR great in theory, clusterfuck in practice
@PeeHaa Are you certain? I know I'm new here, but it's a struggle for me to understand how a community made by programmers for programmers could be so easily gamed.

If what you are saying is true, why didn't they make it so that reputation penalties for deleted questions stick even after the question is deleted?
@JonathonPhilipChambers people do it far more often than you would think
Because you are allowed to delete a question for the reason you said
But to prevent abuse they do work towards a question ban
And don't be silly, there are no perfect systems that cannot be gamed
:P
14:59
Is it possible for me to see my own progress towards said question ban?
No
Not even mods can see that IIRC (cc @MadaraUchiha)
I never write a question intending to delete it later, but often after posting a question I do think, "Oh yeah, that was a lot more subjective than I thought it was"
Especially when people more experienced than me point it out
@JonathonPhilipChambers That's a sign you need to think it through before you write a question
Or if it works better for you write a question and instead of submitting it read it through
@PeeHaa Nope.
@JonathonPhilipChambers I often find myself typing a question, then either figuring out the problem myself having organized my thoughts enough for writing a coherent question, or understanding that Stack Overflow won't be able to help me because the issue is too specific.
@PeeHaa I do feel a little patronised by the suggestion that I mindlessly write unthinking questions without proof reading them first. All my questions seem awesome to me until someone points out their issues. No amount of re-reading them would have saved any of my down voted questions so far. I have read all the rules and guidelines and I do try to follow them as best as I can, but it's a learning process.
15:05
Well at least you are not feeling officially offended I guess
@JonathonPhilipChambers Have you read the help documents about how to ask a good question? There's some actual actionable things there.
And yes especially juniors seem to have a hard time formulating questions and/or understanding how to approach a problem themselves
Which is okish, but there are a lot of resources out there
Especially the "ask a good question" resource prevents 90% of the pitfalls
One of my questions got down voted because I was asking how to get a program to do a thing, and I found out that that program doesn't do that thing. There is no way I could have seen that one coming, no matter how much I read community guidelines.
Link to the question?
-1
Q: Extension from http://www.sqlforexcel.com/ not working with phpmyadmin

Jonathon Philip ChambersThis is one of those questions I thought a simple google would solve, but I've been googling for a while now. No luck. The title says it all, but I have created a detailed screenshot to help solve this mystery. Screenshot -Top left, known good php include that successfully connects to the datab...

15:09
Well yeah you cannot use petrol and expect it to run your tesla no
If I see somebody trying to fill up his tesla with unleaded fuel I would kinda laugh too
My point is, no amount of reading community guidelines would have saved me from that particular pitfall. I researched the hell out of that issue before posting. I had no idea what was going wrong.
Of course it would have
It's not even a pitfall
Why would you even think that would ever work to begin with?
Is that a rhetorical question? The same reason someone with a tesla would think unleaded fuel would power it.
Exactly
Nobody does that
Every mistake looks stupid in retrospect, but at the time that was a question that had me completely and utterly stumped.
15:14
That's not the point
I spent ages googling every keyword I knew, but couldn't find anything
The fact that you had to find out in retrospect is the problem
It's not about proof reading your question
It's about actually trying to understand what is happening and what you are asking before asking
I spent about an hour trying to understand what is happening
So?
Spend more time if you need more time for it
So no questions unless I've spent a full day on them first?
Or is it a week minimum?
15:16
Depends on the person and the understanding of the problem at that point
I don't think I follow
First and foremost you need to understand the actual problem you are facing
In 99% of the cases that should give you the solution already
If not you can always ask a question
100%, depending on how you define "understand"
If you agree with that a question like "phpmyadmin doesn't work with sqlforexcel" could never be posted
If I agree with that, no question could ever be posted.
15:20
Why?
Because if you truly understood the question you were asking, you'd have the answer already. Therefore, if you don't have the answer, you shouldn't ask.
Wes
Wes
what's the overhead of doing

public function bar(){ return require "foo.php"; }

if bar() is called multiple times, will the inclusion slow down it, after it's called 2+ times?
Understanding the problem you are asking about is not the same as having a solution for the problem
if you looked at sqlforexcel and saw that it used SQL Server, you could've googled SQL Server to see what it was, and then compare that to your database, MySQL... you could have seen that they're different products
It's even in the error message
And on the homepage of phpmyadmin
15:22
@PeeHaa I believe you believe that, but can you give me a rigorous and unambiguous distinction between the two?
@JonathonPhilipChambers What did you do to solve your problem?
Did you try to google for the error message and gave up?
I uninstalled the software that wasn't working and went looking for something that would.
lol
You know what
Good luck :P
15:24
I honestly believed I had the correct software
And that's the issue
If you would have just tried to understand the problem, you would have known
As soon as I knew my software was incorrect, that was the correct answer
"Uninstall that software and look for different software" was the correct answer, which had not even occurred to me earlier.
No you are still missing the point
But how is understanding the problem different from knowing the solution?
What you are keep talking about is the solution
15:26
I understood exactly what I wanted to do, and I understood that it wasn't working. So I understood the problem.
@Allenph is that of structural utility? eg is it supposed to be ametal solid plate, or an low infill would be ok?
No you didn't
Understanding the problem would have involved you reading the documentation of the projects you were using. And reading the error messages said project were giving you.
I did both of those things
@JonathonPhilipChambers No you did not
But I don't think I will be able to convince you as you did everything right anyway so o/
15:28
If you're going to call me a liar, there's not much I can say in response, because you'd say my response is a lie also.
At the very least you are a terrible listener to advice
What I am going to say is not related with PHP, but could any of you test my website? The python chat is inactive now. The link is nasom.svcdev.com/shareweb
Your advice was telling me to do things I already did before you even told me to do them. How can I improve my advice listening ability from there?
Could you create an account, login and go to: nasom.svcdev.com/shareweb/uploadUI
I was doing a form to upload articles
@Oqhax login stacktraces
15:32
What do you mean?
Also eeew don't store plain text passwords
They are encrypted, and how do you know that?
Because this is your source
if password == data[2]:
Ah yes.
15:33
Line 121 of /home/omar/public_html/main.py
But password is encrytpted with sha256
Anyway, going back to work now.
@Oqhax Don't do that. It's not suitable for password hashing
@Oqhax your website does not have an SSL certificate.
Create an account, login with correct credentials and go to : nasom.svcdev.com/shareweb/uploadUI
15:34
@JonathonPhilipChambers sorry for just barging in, but I would generally begin by questionning my own understanding. Eg, that you are sure of something, does not mean at all that it's true, it just means that you are sure of it.
OK
I know
I am not registering to a website that does not have SSL
I have noticed that.
@Oqhax are you really like, trying to phish everyone's passwords just now?
Just invent stuff! Invented email, stupid passwords, seriously?
15:35
no, we won't create an account in your insecure platform.
Do what you want, I am only asking.
I don't know how to lie ;)
@Oqhax Use something like passlib of that's still a thing in python
OK, do you mean to encrypt?
something like that
15:36
hash*
@Oqhax hash, it's differnet than encrypt
@Oqhax not encrypt but hash
encrypting means that it can be decrypted
@FélixGagnon-Grenier I did. Still stumped, I asked the linked question. I have the answer now, but as a self-taught web-developer, the answer was not at all obvious to me at the time.
hash cannot be decrypted
15:36
hash => 1 way, encrypt => 2 way
so... you mean encrypt is like @PeeHaa's mum?
3-way bro
Did any of you test it?
15:38
@JonathonPhilipChambers we're a lot of self-taught programmers. Take the advice. Question your assumptions and assuredness.
^ is for your SSL certificate woes
@Wes Found your birthday present for next time thingiverse.com/thing:1589652
password hashing is something different
Could you take that PeeHaa
15:40
I wrote a huge ass question about the multi threading problem I was running into the previous day, and figured out how to solve the problem while writing the question itself :D
lol
@SaitamaSama happens to me like 75% of the time... only I'm typing the question in the r11 chat box
Who the hell flagged that?
@Tiffany :-P
sounds like you're both doing it right \o/
15:40
@FélixGagnon-Grenier I don't understand what you're asking me to do. I thought I was doing that.
@PeeHaa which one?
The gist
@PeeHaa stop causing trouble
15:41
:P
WTF is wrong with people :D
He IS trouble
@Wes lol
lol yeah I need that
15:42
oh apparently @rlemon has a mustache
it's just dirt
I forgot to wash my face
for a few months
@FélixGagnon-Grenier Sorry to be annoying. I know a normal person would just say, "You're right, I never question my assumptions. I will do that always now." But if I thought I was following advice already, I will say it.
Wes
Wes
mustache + beard is not actual mustache
Anyway, back to work
15:43
@JonathonPhilipChambers lol, I don't mean to pile up.
/afk washing my face
@PeeHaa delete the gist pleaseº
So it was you?
too late, I already forked it
Good bye
15:44
lol
Wes
Wes
did you kick him/her
@Tiffany @PeeHaa has habit to ban those kind of persons. :(
yes of course
He flagged me
Flag abuse-- :)
@Tpojka I type it in the chatbox, then figure out what I'm doing wrong, and delete the message in the chatbox before I send it :P
it's just the general way to approach programming. there's a whole chapter about this in McConnell's "Code Complete". Also Eric S Raymond touches it in his "how to become a hacker". being so sure of stuff, especially when known experts are telling you otherwise, is a good way to suffer along the path of programming @JonathonPhilipChambers
15:45
@Tiffany Ah, something @Shafizadeh never does. :/
evening room
Linus o/
\o
tempted to star that diss
.....uuunngghhhhh
15:46
@Tpojka the chat box is the best rubber ducky for me, haha
lol, yeah, I've watched that
blocked here :(
lol Something like never keep all eggs in same basket. :D
15:47
@FélixGagnon-Grenier Sorry, I must have missed something. "Question your assumptions" "Yes, I did" "No you didn't" Is that the disagreement you're talking about?
@SaitamaSama I ended up buying his book, it's pretty good, but a lot of the entries he already has videos for
he has a book?
oh it's on kindle as well
@JonathonPhilipChambers Have you checked the link with article proposed above?
meh, all the books I buy never ends up getting read by me
15:50
Yo
I still have all the LoTR books lying on my table, got through only half of the first book
@SaitamaSama his book is pretty short, and it's entertaining
@FélixGagnon-Grenier It looks almost identical to one I read some time ago. I did ask which paragraph was being referenced with that link, but I'll give the thing a full read-through now to see if there's anything new.
@Tpojka True.
PeeHaa is a kind and gentle soul
15:53
he gave us @Jeeves
@FélixGagnon-Grenier teamcoco.com/embed/v/101573 ?
@JonathonPhilipChambers ok, so I got back up to your first hello world comment. I was unsure before, so I kept a mild tone, but now I will indeed pile up: you did not read, nor apply, any of the advice of the post you say you have so carefully read and understood.
He is. And handsome. And caring
He is an honorary Canadian
lol
15:54
Who cares?
@SaitamaSama Talk for yourself, not for others.
Haha, very funny, you edited it
Everyone who is anyone loves PeeHaa
That's a fact
Science based even
@Oqhax did you just question @Jeeves pertinence? Listen here, kiddo.
There are useless things, and there is Jeeves. Tattoo it on your heart.
If you have a problem with PeeHaa then you have a problem with me and I suggest you let that marinate
15:56
lol
I'll tell Kendall you stole that
It's a letterkenny quote :p
@FélixGagnon-Grenier did the link I sent you work?
!!? letterkenny
15:57
Search for "letterkenny -site:w3schools.com" (https://www.google.com/search?q=letterkenny+-site%3Aw3schools.com&lr=lang_en)
• Letterkenny (TV series) - Wikipedia - Letterkenny is a Canadian television sitcom created by Jared Keeso and Jacob Tierney, that debuted… (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letterkenny_(TV_series))
• Letterkenny (TV Series 2016– ) - IMDb - Comedy · Letterkenny consists of hicks, skids, hockey players and Christians. These are their probl… (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4647692/)
@Tiffany yeah, I'm just a retard that can't seem to follow concurrent stuff
thanks!
I'll watch it now
:P
their site is a bit laggy for the video (at least when I tried)
@FélixGagnon-Grenier you single-core processor pleb
@PeeHaa hilarious show
so might have a similar problem
15:58
Highly recommend
nothing is more hilarious than KonoSuba
Added to watchlist
Does Jeeves Google?
!!google letterkenny problems
Jeeves does
Search for "letterkenny problems -site:w3schools.com" (https://www.google.com/search?q=letterkenny+problems+-site%3Aw3schools.com&lr=lang_en)
• Letterkenny Problems Ep. 1 - YouTube - No description available (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KLSbCtinXs)
• Letterkenny Problems: "Hockey Players" - YouTube - Two good old boys from Letterkenny, Ontario tell you another story. Facebook: http://www.facebook.c… (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozDDYcyrCNE)
• Letterkenny - Cold Open - YouTube - Letterkenny. Now streaming on CraveTV. http://www.cravetv.ca/show/34584 Letterkenny Facebook: www … (http
15:59
he does everything
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