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16:03
@MadaraUchiha Yea unfortunately for me my CPU is around 5.5 years old so likely to be affected.
When Intel releases a chip with the issue fixed in hardware, would I consider an AMD? ... only if they seriously improved the grunt of their chips
@MadaraUchiha this will too all sorts of interesting things to those gaming benchmarks
@Madara wanna play OW again sometime tonight?
@Leigh keep in mind, that the problem is likely to persist in the upcoming generation too
I'm not in a hurry for a new CPU anyway
> The first is that Intel’s implementation of Tomasulo’s algorithm is not side channel safe
dam :)
16:06
unless they opt to scrap it all (including the silicon, that has been printed already :D
@ircmaxell welcome to team-red
Tomasulo’s algorithm is a computer architecture hardware algorithm for dynamic scheduling of instructions that allows out-of-order execution and enables more efficient use of multiple execution units. It was developed by Robert Tomasulo at IBM in 1967 and was first implemented in the IBM System/360 Model 91’s floating point unit. The major innovations of Tomasulo’s algorithm include register renaming in hardware, reservation stations for all execution units, and a common data bus (CDB) on which computed values broadcast to all reservation stations that may need them. These developments allow for...
my head hurts
@ircmaxell Isn't this the crux of the ASLR-defeating Javascript?
@SaitamaSama Sure
@Leigh what do you mean?
\o/ 6:15 PM GMT?
@SaitamaSama I might be late, but start without me and I'll join later
oh np ;)
@Leigh so, at a glance, it's slightly different
those ASLR breaks are due to side-channel attacks in the memory system
Haven't had the chance to watch it yet
//TODO: <pretty much everything>
this is due to a side-channel in the root execution unit of the CPU (much finer grained, and much smaller time differences)
16:26
Speculation over. Intel bug has been reproduced with a PoC. https://twitter.com/brainsmoke/status/948561799875502080
allegedly
Anonymous
16:39
Anyone got a linky detailing how null is treated in these comparisons? 3v4l.org/HvXfv
It's treated as 0
it doesn't look like it is 3v4l.org/VaMQY
MySQLi MUST provide an escape function for use in MATCH...AGAINST – #75755
@ircmaxell so it's compared as booleans
gah
16:50
boolean singular....
I visited the python room, to try and get some advice on getting my fixes (for basically fatal issues) to some python tools merged/published on pip. There was no response except "yeah it would be nice if we followed semver wouldn't it?" and then a discussion about skeletons, cabbage and anime followed.
kind of puts the whole Weiner measuring contest on the @internals list in perspective.
Wes
Wes
we got a lot of cabbages here as well
@Stephen sorry, there will be very few skilled python users here. You should probably clean dust of your irssi and visit Freenode
Anonymous
@Stephen what python lib is that?
Anonymous
I've dabbled with few, but I'm no expert
17:05
@tereško I wasn't asking for help, so much as commenting on the difference between the communities
```
if (!converted) {
if (Z_TYPE_P(op1) == IS_NULL || Z_TYPE_P(op1) == IS_FALSE) {
ZVAL_LONG(result, zval_is_true(op2) ? -1 : 0);
```
Ok wow, wasn't expecting that
I stand corrected
@samayo dbschema (which relies on and was just broken by a new release of pymysql) and SchemaObject (used by SchemaSync)
I am standing beside myself with amazement.
> PHP Fatal error: DateTimeInterface can't be implemented by user classes
whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
I mean it's not like I actually need to, but wtf is the fucking point
Wes
Wes
@DaveRandom you can implement it by extending DateTime and overriding all methods
17:16
For the Glory of Satan
Wes
Wes
not saying it's not stupid, just providing you a solution :B
@Wes I don't want to, I just found that I have some unnecessary code when I came to test it
@DaveRandom IIRC, that's true for all internal interfaces
Iterator, IteratorAggregate... what else is there?
Wes
Wes
traversable can only be implemented through iterator or iteragg
17:18
Traversable obv, but that has no methods and ^ those deal with that
I just don't understand why it isn't DateTime extends DateTimeImmutable
@DaveRandom dude
It's not great, obv, but it makes more sense than the interface
Wes
Wes
well that doesn't make sense :B
It would make sense if they were name DateTime and MutableDateTime
Ugh, it's all fucking horrid
@DaveRandom which is why no-one wants to look after the date ext.
17:20
* aggressively drinks tea *
@DaveRandom they should share an interface
and they do: DateTimeInterface
God fucking dammit externals.io/message/101479
5
We should throw away mutability, is the actual correct answer
@DaveRandom I guess it boils down to not understanding LSP :P
I just love how that immediately brought out the people who have never participated in the internals list -- apart from the last code of conduct discussion of course!
Helpfully elucidating us as to the functioning of email clients
17:24
bike shedding?
@tereško yes, it was indeed a horrible idea
Wes
Wes
datetime, datetimeimmutable and datetimeinterface hierarchy is correct. it's just strange that you cannot implement datetimeinterface alone
It isn't correct, it should just be immutable
anyone work with infragistics before?
webDataGrid to be specific
Wes
Wes
or that
17:27
@Koosh That is the sort of portmanteau that makes me want to punch myself in the head
ive done it already today multiple times
> As Stas points out, having a CoC for the list would not be a free
speech issue in the wider sense. But in the absence of such a
yardstick, I do agree with you that there's nothing to justify
ejecting you from the list.
LOL
I seem to remember that name as someone who is also an asshat (the author of that remark)
so... I took my old macbook out of the closet, to see a good old php 5.3 installation still kicking
also, I am kinda mad at them for "locking" me out of the loop. the hardware won't support the next mac os X versions, current mac os X version does not support modern browsers, apps, etc.
17:32
evenin r11.
o/
17:42
\o
Wes
Wes
o/
o/
I think we might be able to pull this off...
nah
@ircmaxell assholes of a feather, shitpost together.
Anonymous
17:48
@SaitamaSama lol
Anonymous
I will be playing ow with the mouse pad because I forgot the Bluetooth dongle in my aunts house.
Anonymous
finally, I've gone full retard it seems
!!? dongle mac laptops old mexican video
Search for "dongle mac laptops old mexican video -site:w3schools.com" (https://www.google.com/search?q=dongle+mac+laptops+old+mexican+video+-site%3Aw3schools.com&lr=lang_en)
• Apple Engineer Talks About New 2016 Macbook Pro -… - Disclaimer: I don't hate Apple - I actually made this video on my pre-2016 Macbook. In my view it w… (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XSC_UG5_kU)
• Apple Engineer Talks about the New 2015 Macbook -… - Wow, thanks to all of you who reshared this video, it's gone viral! How many times have you watched… (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHZ8ek-6ccc)
@samayo just buy one
17:52
bullzeye
those those things cost like $5
@DaveRandom indeed, that error is even hardcoded that way.. not sure where I got that idea from.. :x
@Danack how about "Turds of a feather get blocked together"?
18:12
@FélixGagnon-Grenier lol his laugh. :P
This is how i laugh sometimes.
Anonymous
@NikiC eh.. what line?
Anonymous
It hits default case, right?
@FélixGagnon-Grenier How's the CR-10?
@Wes How is/are your library(s)?
Wes
Wes
bad. i am doing actual work lately
just begun actually. i am trying event sourcing. i have no idea what i am doing
18:17
I had wondered why you hadn't messaged me in a while.
I didn't know we could kick people off the list ...
It appears the Gods have written something about event sourcing. martinfowler.com/eaaDev/EventSourcing.html
Wes
Wes
@NikiC i think the biggest problem with the mailing list is that you are allowed to write very long messages. it is easy to ignore a few messages if they are short, but you cannot ignore monumental pages that scroll for hundreds of pixels. communication works here because we are forced to fit what matters in short messages. mailing list should limit the amount of messages, like 1 every 30 minutes, and have a limit of 500 characters or something
@JayIsTooCommon Specifically this block: github.com/php/php-src/blob/… which is why you get the same results with false 3v4l.org/SamYf note specifically L2085, where -1 is returned when the right operand is zval_is_true() (i.e. any truthy value on the right is considered "less than" the left operand)
I don't mind seeing a technical back and forth between reasonable contributors, they should be allowed to do that whenever they have the time, rather than dragging it out because someone who doesn't know how to conduct themselves might derail the conversation ... I don't think a limit is the way to go, I think making it known that we can and do block people from the list is going to be a much more effective way of keeping discussion on track ...
Anonymous
18:24
@DaveRandom wait so is_true doesn’t mean (bool) true? I couldn’t see the is_null and is_float / double ?
@Wes Make Internals use 140 characters like Twitter. Seems to work well for the President...
Wes
Wes
lol
@JayIsTooCommon it means ((bool)$var) === true
Anonymous
Oh. So that’s the case that’s hit when comparing null and int?
Anonymous
And that’s why 0 is treated differently because it casts to false?
Wes
Wes
18:34
this is why coercion sux. nobody can remember it, like operator order
why do you want to know @JayIsTooCommon ?
@JayIsTooCommon 0, null and empty strings are all false-y
Anonymous
@Wes How am I going to impress the ladies if I don’t know how comparison operators work?
Anonymous
@Machavity got it. Thanks <3 // @DaveRandom
Wes
Wes
nobody knows how they work
@Wes PHP uses triple equals, because ours is bigger than theirs
Wes
Wes
18:37
if they say they know, they are lying. there are gillion combinations. and afaik == is not even symmetric
although i recall @Andrea fixed something in PHP 7 on that regard
with non-symmetric i mean that $a == $b is different from $b == $a @JayIsTooCommon
and that's like the worst thing you can have
19:19
@JoeWatkins @NikiC Exactly. There needs to be consequences when someone cannot conduct themselves in a manner that's fitting to a technical discussion. It's infuriating when they make personal attacks and then act as though they've done nothing wrong. I and many others just avoid commenting on the list because there is no time or energy to wade through the crap. Clearly either they don't understand and need to be taught or don't care and need to know there are consequences.
@SaitamaSama are you guys playing
well, I'm playing :B
@samayo ping
not seeing you. are you in eu
wait... lemme change servers
Wes
Wes
> I am currently also working on another RFC that adds a Convertible
interface with a single into method that has its return type set to
scalar where objects can opt-in to become scalar compatible.
i propose interface Spyder{}
19:22
@Wes sounds familiar to what I was working on back in the day
woah, Jay lives
@ircmaxell I would rather go with implicit interfaces TBH. Basically, __toString() is an implicit implementation of a given Stringable interface. It's still kind of magic, but less magic than what we have
sure, that's fair :)
19:38
@ircmaxell So.......how about some insider trading then: fool.com/investing/2017/12/19/…
hehehehe
you all back working now?
@Danack I hadn't seen that yet. Nice.
19:53
@Sean you are summoned
@DaveRandom, @Ekin, or anyone else: I'm looking for feedback on modifications I've made with Aerys (see the 0.8.x branch). Particularly look at the Middleware, Responder, and Delegate interfaces.
The middleware interface is based around PSR-15, since I think they got that right. The request/response objects are similar to PSR-7, but are mutable… cause the stream is mutable, so the whole object may as well be.
@ircmaxell Trump's is still bigger.
^ Lol.
@Trowski what's a responder? the next step in the chain of middleware?
20:08
@ircmaxell Yes, it may be the next middleware or the user-defined Responder (i.e. the callback in a route, fallback, or perhaps an error handler).
Hi
I want to know what kind of regex can I use in "preg_split" function
well, looks good to me from an interface perspective
This regex ^.?Billing and Compliance Report - [\w, ]*\[\w*\]$|^.?[\w, ]*\[\w*\]\s*(?:Female|Male)\s*\d{1,2}\s*y\.o.?|^.?Patient Demographics$|^.?Patient Demographics \(continued\)$|^.?Hospital Account$|^.?Hospital Account \(continued\)$|^.?Guarantor Account \(for Hospital Account \#\w*\)$|^.?Guarantor Account \(for Hospital Account \#\w*\) \(continued\)$|^.?Coverage Information \(for Hospital Account \#\w*\)$|^.?Coverage Information \(for Hospital Account \#\w*\) \(continued\)$
It works on regex101.com for searching.
But, when I try to pass this to "preg_split" just doesn't work
It doesn't split as expected.
I want that every | makes a new split.
@MáximaAlekz Split matches a pattern and splits the string on that pattern. I think you want preg_match.
But, preg_match is just to know if the pattern matches on string, but not splits
:(
20:14
@MáximaAlekz Read the signature again of the function
@MáximaAlekz You also get an array of the matches out of it.
> Semi-conductor chips are found in many of the world's computers.
8
Yes but, I will capture text between pattern rules?
Technically correct
Wes
Wes
lol
20:16
@MáximaAlekz you might want PREG_SPLIT_DELIM_CAPTURE
So after "Hospital Account", I will take the text till next match?
3 messages moved to Trash
Wes
Wes
i suppose still there are functioning vacuum tube computers somehwere
like, in museums :B
Yeh, there's one in Manchester, a recreation of colossus
Wes
Wes
oh that must be wonderful
20:18
Keep your perverted vacuum sexbots to yourself @Wes
Wes
Wes
lol
@MáximaAlekz The first array element yes, but look at the entire array returned.
@Wes I think the same museum also has a functional (but simplified/incomplete) difference engine
I'm not sure if it's actually theirs or it was on loan when I saw it
@Trowski PREG_SPLIT_DELIM_CAPTURE not worked for me, It outputs the same to no-flags preg_split
@MáximaAlekz Try preg_match.
20:20
try preg_match_all() ^
@MáximaAlekz wait... are you literally just trying to split on pipe characters? So 0|1|2|3 becomes array(0, 1, 2, 3) ?
@DaveRandom I want that every | does new split
soo... explode('|', $string)??
explode() always makes me want pizza.
You should find a different pizza place
Billing and Compliance Report - Wheat, Adrianne [MHD2950589]
Female - 12/12/69
Case Summary
Date: 12/31/17
Surgeon: Garian Alexavener, MD
Location: M 2 / MC OR
Responsible Staff 12/31/17
Name Role Begin End
StevE Her, MD ANEST 1022 1131
Procedure Summary
Date Anesthesia Start Anesthesia Stop Room / Location
20:27
@DaveRandom original Babbage's? or a remake?
@DaveRandom Maybe you need to eat more exploding pizza.
preg_split('/\r?\n/', $string)?
This would be
0=> Female - 12/12/69
1=>Date: 12/31/17
       Surgeon: Garian Alexavener, MD
       Location: M 2 / MC OR
2=> Name Role Begin End
       StevE Her, MD ANEST 1022 1131
Text between regex matches. Like a explode but with regex
@Tiffany a rebuild, obv :-P
@DaveRandom I was hoping
20:29
@MáximaAlekz this data is... horrifying. Where has it come from?
Also that looks remarkably like not-test-data with some highly personal, highly identifiable information in it... like, the sort of thing you should not be posting on the internet...
2
@DaveRandom Is not real data my friend
@MáximaAlekz He's saying it's horrible data to work with when needing to extract information. Format wise.
well regardless, that data looks like copy-paste from a web page or something, there must be some way to make it easier to work with
He is also saying he wants a hug from you.
I am categorically not saying that
20:33
Sorry I meant kiss.
I am philematophobic
I'm afraid of Gene Simmons
@DaveRandom There's a cream for that.
So I rub Eric Clapton on Gene Simmons and then it will be OK? Got it.
Wes
Wes
20:36
do you picture php being fully statically analyzable in future? has anybody thought to implement casting... as in, up-casting, like in java? cc @NikiC
class Dog extends Animal{}
function getAnimal(): Animal{ return new Dog(); }
Dog $dog = (Dog)getAnimal();
@DaveRandom golf gene clap
@DaveRandom Cause you know, I don't belong...on Gene Simmons. Guitar noodling
Wes
Wes
that was downcasting though. i meant that
perhaps downcasting is not a good idea
user895378
mornin'
Wes
Wes
\o
20:51
I have two columns.

Is it possible to insert an entered value into column called vendorname and then insert the first letter of that value into a column called alphachar?
user895378
Has anyone used a php avro library they would recommend?
@rdlowrey Howdy, Stellar ++ :D
@Allenph lost in the mail atm. the shipping company apparently did a "security check", which a 3d printer apparently did not pass
not sure if company's fault or what, but it is supposed to be delivered this week
@Linus lol ikr? this is quite funny
@FélixGagnon-Grenier Sucks. I went cheapo and bought the Anet A2. They shorted me a roller bearing. Not sure how I feel about the rail system. We'll see.
Pissed me off. I paid extra to get it shipped from the US warehouse so I could build it on holiday, but the only place you can order the roller bearing they shorted me is from the land of cheap labor.
21:23
Lol. Way to go. Not.
I used to have an A8. It worked pretty well. Don't hate on the cheapos.
That thread you've got there is pedantic. Lots of morals-arguing. Bleh
21:39
lol
So I've got a simple t-sql question. Is there a place to ask it besides main SE and the SQL room?
> Don't ask to ask, just ask
;-)
Didn't think it applied to off-topic stuff. Adding a primary key column silently fails, not sure why sqlfiddle.com/#!6/41117/2/0
Doing DROP COLUMN id; afterwards says the id column doesn't exist.
@person27 #WorksForMe sqlfiddle.com/#!6/41117/9 :-P
siguza.github.io/IOHIDeous don't forget there's a 0-day for OSX out in the wild now
21:54
oh, I have to keep my twitter name the same then for at least another week:
@MrDanack
Maintainer of the PHP Imagick extension. Has a beard.
2k tweets, 420 followers, following 230 users
@DaveRandom sqlfiddle.com/#!6/41117/11 If you add the column (without the drop column part), it seems to execute. But if you try to drop the column afterwards (without the add column part), it says 'id' column doesn't exist.Does sqlfiddle not maintain state between sql queries?
> Intel believes its products are the most secure in the world and that, with the support of its partners, the current solutions to this issue provide the best possible security for its customers.
Nevermind DaveRandom. I can't get sqlfiddle to reproduce that nonsense
@ircmaxell apparently intel are trying to make the 'fix' be applied to OS's running on AMD processors as well, 'just in case' it's needed.
don't have link to hand.
well, apparently there's only 1 person saying AMD isn't affected, not much supporting or denying that
so maybe it is true, maybe it isn't
22:06
hi
is there a way to search chat history? Someone gave me an answer here a month ago, was curious if it's still around
yes, the search box in the upper right corner
@person27 You can't drop the primary key column without first dropping the primary key constraint - there's no way to do it in one DDL statement, and there's no way to do without the name of the constraint. You also can't name a the constraint with the inline PRIMARY KEY at definition time. The best way to deal with this is to do this: sqlfiddle.com/#!6/41117/33
@ircmaxell thanks friend!
22:11
@DaveRandom Dang, I see. I was mixing it with mysql: t-sql does the constraint syntax. Okay, constraints make more sense now. Thanks for sticking with me. (Though why it doesn't automatically drop constraints tied to a column being dropped I don't know yet)
@person27 It's mostly an idiot check, I imagine. When dropping/deleting stuff, I'd rather it make me be explicit about exactly what I want
Sounds fair to me.
22:27
You guys think Intel is just trying to get everyone thrown under the bus or that there isn't actually a flaw in other architectures?
@Allenph if there isn't a proven problem, then applying a fix that makes 30% slow down for some applications would be a bad thing.
of course intel don't want to be the only cpus that have the slowdown applied on......as it makes their cpus not as competitive.
Well, I mean that's obvious. But that's my point. It sure seems to me like Intel is just saying "They have the problem too!" with zero proof.
@Allenph apparently from what I can tell, there are two vulnerabilities. One is intel-only, one is systemic
22:32
@ircmaxell Some kind of way to drive a cache miss on purpose to an address of interest?
@Allenph I understand parts of it, reading now to try to get the whole picture
@NikiC awesome
OH SHIT
I just realized how this works
phpinfo() resets base CSS varibles and does not release CSS from within <div> – #75756
@Jeeves y u do this?
@Danack I insult people for fun.
"If the kernel's BPF JIT is enabled (non-default configuration), it also works on the AMD PRO CPU" https://googleprojectzero.blogspot.co.uk/2018/01/reading-privileged-memory-with-side.html
> Currently, we have only verified Meltdown on Intel processors. At the moment, it is unclear whether ARM and AMD processors are also affected by Meltdown.
22:40
@NikiC huzzah. thank you both.
>Am I affected by the bug?
>Most certainly, yes.
P.S. how do you do block quotes?
prefix with ">"
WTF?
@Tiffany en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Row_hammer is the thing I could remember, but not the name of.
@Danack neat, thanks
22:46
yeah, rowhammer was awesome
I don't want to store anything important on my computer anymore :(
I didn't think bugs via hardware manipulation like that was a thing.
yup
it's turtles all the way down
you know you're on vacation at home when you forget what day it is...
couldn't remember if it was Wednesday or Thursday
@Tiffany it's Tuesday
a TARDIS would be nice
22:50
I forget the day of the week sometimes, and it has nothing to do with vacation. I've also forgotten my name once, but that's another story.
I guess it's a problem of when the days just meld together
@ircmaxell Explain this wizardry, please.
@Allenph turtle on its feet = 1, turtle on its back = 0
Not when it's a breakdancing turtle.
That's not what I meant, but I also did not understand that.
22:57
@Allenph do you remember branch prediction?
@ircmaxell Remember from? I have a rough understanding of what branch prediction is and how it works.
ok, with a rough understanding
@Allenph turtles all the day down, all computers (except quantum) are reduced to binary
I got that part, I just didn't know about the turtle reference.
Also some early processors were not binary.
ooh. The belief that the world is on the back of a turtle.
I believe
23:00
I can fly
So, wioth branch prediction the CPU runs code it may need to "unwind"
and for a brief moment, it was true
with this attack, basically it "tricks" the branch predictor to run code that's illegal (but it won't actually run, so it won't be illegal). Then by examining cache behavior it can deduce info about the illegal code
where here the illegal code is accessing data from the kernel's address space
So it's distracting the branch predictor?
@ircmaxell The branch predictor has different execution rules?
23:05
well, no. the branch predictor is doing what it's supposed to do
it's more the generalized system the branch predictor runs in
(it executes instructions before all prior instructions are finished)
and I'm heading home, take it easy and chat later!
Later.
I think I'll dig my PowerPC Mac out of the closet tonight…
It can only run 10.5 I think… but that shouldn't be a problem, right?
23:21
At the moment at least Linux is assuming all CPUs are affected: github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/master/arch/x86/kernel/cpu/…
23:33
@ircmaxell is that a separate thing from the earlier discussed intel vulnerability or did someone from marketing heard about it and decided to re-brand it?
@Trowski I didn't know Torvald was still active. It was a bad assumption. After seeing his name in the GitHub repo and stumbled upon this gem...
@NikiC lol he basically responds "ok"
23:48
@Allenph Yeah, as a person he's horrible.
AMD wishes to change that line: lkml.org/lkml/2017/12/27/2
01:00 - 16:0016:00 - 00:00

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