« first day (2293 days earlier)      last day (2881 days later) » 

00:30
@tereško unlimited size? Is there some naked singularity? :-P
@Leigh I'd be surprised if it actually meant "discard" in many of these languages instead of "match anything else" which usually means you are going to discard it.
Scala, a language mentioned, uses it for both.
Based on a cursory look, in Lua there isn't any special meaning for _ and rather it's just a convention.
It seems maybe in Go it is actually "discard".
It's not a common feature because a lot of places that care about partial function application just do it automatically when you call a function with fewer parameters than is required.
I'd prefer _ since it has a precedent and it looks cleaner; $$ is very noisy.
@LeviMorrison fewer than required is somewhat problematic in PHP due to optional args…
But again I'd rather care about the semantics than the actual symbol used.
@bwoebi Exactly, which is why we don't go that route.
fine…
@LeviMorrison could also have $1, $2, $...
For multiple args, potentially with reordering
00:43
For multiple args with reordering why not just use a short closure :D
Also generally may consider extending this from just functions to expressions in general
I.e. $1 + $2 is basically short for ($a, $b) => $a + $b
I think perl has something like this ... which is not a good sign :D
I don't like the $<n> route.
It's more complication that I'd rather just defer to an existing construct for.
remind me, $$ would only be allowed to be used once, correct?
@NikiC No, any number of times.
It's Sara's current proposal that is only once.
@LeviMorrison what does it mean if it's used multiple times?
00:45
@NikiC Have multiple args in the closure.
Does it apply the same value multiple times or is each $$ an extra arg?
@LeviMorrison that seems confusing
imho it should either be an enforced single arg, or be explicitly separate (e.g. through numbering)
I think it's less confusing than $<n> by a long shot.
I don't like $$ taking different values
Its because you, like everyone else, seems to be thinking of $$ as "accepting a value".
And that is probably because that's what Sara is currently proposing.
I'm saying it means "hey, convert this full application to a partial and in this spot right here we are expecting an argument in the closure"
I think _ better conveys that meaning.
$$ is too close to a variable, plus it's noisy.
yes, it does
For that meaning _ would be better
$$ is semantically different. $$ is something that could reasonably also occur independent of a function call
00:48
as proposed yes
But it's way more complicated.
why is it more complicated?
Isn't it semantically simpler?
No, more complex.
How?
Because you have to do scans, possibly across function boundaries if we follow HHVM/hack.
scans?
00:50
$x |> $foo ==> $$ + $foo
It goes across function boundaries in HHVM. I really don't like it
And if you try to implement that specific part you'd realize exactly why that's more complex.
@LeviMorrison I'd be mainly concerned about semantics there. If you consider $$ to just be syntax for a lambda with an anonymous argument, that example would actually be equivalent to $x |> $foo ==> $_ ==> $_ + $foo (or $x |> $_ ==> $foo ==> $_ + $foo, it's not clear)
I think it's hard to have this conversation because there is an existing proposal with different semantics but in some cases they will be equivalent to what I'm proposing.
$x |> f($$) would evaluate the same in either proposal.
But $x |> f($$, $$) would not necessarily be the same.
(Current proposal only allows one target, but HHVM supports multiple and it will send the result to both)
@LeviMorrison yes. and at least using the $$ syntax it should just be forbidden
Note that something like f(_, 5) can also reasonably be interpreted as what was at some point proposed as f(, 5) and f(default, 5), i.e., argument skipping
Ugh. Do you like that?
Which would actually be more in line with the seemingly commonly interpretation of _ being an "ignore" or "skip" sigil
00:55
Which by the way _ is usually just a convention for that; that doesn't discard the value completely but there is a difference between:
@LeviMorrison No, I don't, it's not useful. I'm just saying that this is an alternative interpretation a reasonable person might have
"In Lua `_` means to discard the value."
"In Lua it is convention to use `_` to mean you don't care about the value"
One has special language treatment; one does not.
Or in other cases _ is special but it means "match anything", not discard.
@LeviMorrison which is commonly sorta the same thing
Right... sorta.
In pattern matches "match anything" and "discard" behave the same, really
00:57
Eh... I don't think so but I can see that in at least some cases they would be the same.
I guess there's a subtle difference, as between _ and .. in rust
Anyway, I think |> is a useful tool for writing the program like a human would want.
I think partial application is also a tool that we'd want.
And they work really well together.
If you want to make something more powerful than partial function application be my guest but my guess is that Internals may not want something more powerful.
@LeviMorrison we still have the open issue of getting a callable from a function in a clean way. I don't think partial application (with explicitly specified arguments) quite cuts it for that
but that's a different problem
01:35
@NikiC Something, something, unify symbol tables, something, something
^_^
In all seriousness, what do you think it would take to survive such a change? It has a lot of implications; we handle unknown functions, classes and constants differently. We have case sensitivity differences. Assuming we do iron all those out, what does it take to get Internals to agree with it? Performance? New features? Both?
/cc @bwoebi @JoeWatkins and anyone else who wants to chime in there
 
3 hours later…
04:16
Moins
moin...
04:46
o/
05:19
\o
Wes
Wes
\o
\\\o///
morning
today is friday here
thanks chinese new year's eve
\o/
it feels like spamming people sending two happy new year's newsletter so close lol
Wes
Wes
lol
happy new year! :D
05:32
@FélixGagnon-Grenier Is there a plan to move to 7? Or would it work on 7 currently?
@Fabor it presently works on 7.
but server is on 5.6, and bound not to move for the time being
Wes
Wes
it's not possible. twitter.com/CutPics/status/824118790338334721 how can one not notice
@FélixGagnon-Grenier I see. Okay, i'll just get a 5.6 box.
05:36
marvelous
there was some stuff about yields that made me wish we were on 7 already though
so if you have such desires also... stuff can be made to move, at some point
05:47
Gotcha
06:09
posted on January 25, 2017

New Cyanide and Happiness Comic

06:27
moin
Anyone know why opcache_get_status() would be undefined in php 7.0.14?
@DamienOvereem you don't have the extension loaded. see php.net/manual/en/opcache.installation.php
php 7.x no longer uses an extension for opcache.. or am I wrong?
you are wrong
wauw :) Assumptions are the mother of all fuckups..
I see it now, thx!
Wes
Wes
06:45
mornings
moin wes
moin..
instead of curl. is there other way to auto login in 3rd party?
Wes
Wes
any http client library, headless browser...
very cool: farmbot.io
3
Wes
Wes
06:57
@Gordon ok that's actually cool
it's a bit pricey
Wes
Wes
if i had a garden i would probably buy it
3100 is not even too much
I could put it on the rooftop terrace
but not at that price
3D Printable
All of FarmBot’s plastic components are designed to be 3D printed with hobby level FDM printers.
will my printer finally find a use ?
unlikely, but it's nice to think it could
07:32
@JoeWatkins (or anyone) do you have any advice about how to investigate github.com/mkoppanen/imagick/issues/195
oh - remi already gave a PR.
!!lxr zend_object_properties_size
@Danack The results page is not in the format I expected it to be
There was an error!

Java heap space

java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: Java heap space
you need to use adam's lxr
morning
07:57
moin @Trucy
@Gordon I totally read that as fembot :)
Morngin room
@PeeHaa I think they are also working on that. An AI real doll.
@Gordon of course, the japanese are on it
@Gordon Does it really need the I? :P
@Trucy actually it's the americans: forbes.com/sites/curtissilver/2016/08/19/…
though I have on doubt companies on other nations are trying, too
08:06
@Gordon I'm actually surprised
But yeah, maybe the two of them are working on sexbots
Although I don't think society is ready for robots
time to step up your game, @Jeeves
@PaulCrovella What does that number represent?
@Jeeves 69
@Gordon Why not 42?
@Jeeves you'll learn when you are there
08:07
@Gordon No I am A gorrila.
@Jeeves it's fine. You can be everything you want. You'll find your identity.
@Gordon Yes or no?
@Jeeves Yes
@Gordon Pick one: Yes or No!
@Jeeves Yes
08:08
@Gordon Answer the question.
@Jeeves I already did
@Gordon No you didn't just say it.
@Jeeves Yes, you are a Gorilla
@Gordon @⁠jeeves yes, No you are a gorilla
The grey on my hair would indicate I am a silverback
could be worse
08:09
would be better if it wasn't back hair
@PaulCrovella do you want more information on this?
don't need it. I, too, am old.
actually I don't have any back hair. I am very happy about it.
but that implies I am not a silverback
Ugh, have to meet the project manager sometime today to ask him if it's okay to use table inheritance in postgresql
/me looks at remote jobs
Jan 11 at 1:17, by Danack
> So I pondered. And I thought. And I finally came up with the one important, nay vital bit of advice I would give myself if I had the chance.

Charles,

This is your future self. I'm 33 now and I've been given the opportunity to reach back in time and give you one piece of advice. You won't understand it today but if you hold it close to your heart you will one day thank me for it.

Whatever you do, prefer composition over inheritance.

See you in 17 years
@Trucy why do you want to use table inheritance?
08:22
@Danack Because I have to manage different types of events (time off requests in fact)
And, because we're in France, we have differents types of time off, requiring different informations
AND I have to manage classic events (meetings for exemple)
And why is inheritance the correct solution for that, rather than having join tables to the different types of time off?
I think it'd be closer to what we want
If we want to display all the events, regardless of what they are, we just have to SELECT * FROM event
If we want only the paid leave requests, SELECT * FROM paid_leave_request
Which will also have the informations of a classic event, which we need too
The current solution is a 2-column foreign key in the event table: one column for the ID of the time off, and one column for the type of time off, leading to a different table
(Maybe I'm not clear enough)
Anonymous
Star this message as useful / interesting for the transcript
Anonymous
moins
mion
08:48
meurning
rofl "Nothing personal! I'm not a big fun of this StackExhange feature (editing). It remained me Orwell's 1984 too much... "
@Trucy reply with this
Twas 5 years ago
@bwoebi PHPDBG segfaults on Travis again.
09:05
morgis!
mittwoching
09:17
@LeviMorrison replied
moin
Anonymous
morn chris
@Danack that ...
Wes
Wes
@kelunik obviously people (and you included) will disagree with this, but if a readonly/const keyword was added to fields, static fields and constants would end up being pretty much the same. i would like if php headed towards that
public const CONSTANT = 3;
public const $CONSTANT = 3;
moin all
Anonymous
hoi joe
Wes
Wes
09:26
\o
o/
\o
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
09:35
C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER
21 secs ago, by Dejan Marjanovic
C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER
43 secs ago, by Dejan Marjanovic
C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER
Sep 26 '16 at 6:48, by Epodax
C-C-C-Combo breaker!
39 secs ago, by Joe Watkins
21 secs ago, by Dejan Marjanovic
C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER
51 secs ago, by Joe Watkins
21 secs ago, by Dejan Marjanovic
C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER
09:38
1 min ago, by Gordon
51 secs ago, by Joe Watkins
21 secs ago, by Dejan Marjanovic
C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER
Going meta-er
FFfffffffff
I'm beginning to think we can't do this because we're php developers
Is having an avatar instead of a proper picture on GitHub a bad point for recruiters?
Oh nice. Server alert, database migration failed last night because the dev who was in charge of the new setup decided that 22gb of database data would fit into a 20gb server partition
@Jimbo who do you call a PHP developer here, sonny?
Anonymous
@Trucy it definitely shouldn't
09:43
@JayIsTooCommon Depends on the recruiter
We're humans - you're more likely to be recruited if you have a happy, smiling face
Then if you're a miserable bastard
Although you might be joining a team who doesn't care about that
stop it with the attack vectors!!
That's good or bad depending entirely on your opinion
@Jimbo Yup, that also what I was thinking about
mornings
09:45
In fact I think I have a full-on question for workplace.SE
Anonymous
eh, if a recruiter was judging me based on what profile pictures I didn't have, i'd gather that they don't have the correct priorities and are not fit for me
moin
it's easier for human beings to remember faces than it is to remember cartoons, recruiter or not ...
I remember cartoons better :/
Anonymous
oh I agree it's beneficial, but a factor in the recruitment process .. meh
you must be a machine @Paul
09:46
I have prosopagnosia, I can't remember faces at all :D
no, I'm a tiny seahorse. check the pic.
@Trucy that's a strong word ... I struggle to remember faces, or anything about the world ... but wouldn't put a label on it ...
@Trucy if you'd apply with a regular printed CV and cover letter, you'd be expected not to add a picture. The selection process should be based on your CV and not your picture. Chances are your chances will be worse when you add one. Then again, I don't think too many recruiters really look at your GH anyway
Anonymous
@Trucy I only have a picture so that @PeeHaa will talk to me
@PaulCrovella oh yeah, ofc, it may be different for tiny sea creatures, I defer to you ...
09:48
@JoeWatkins I know. But it's easier for me now that I can put a work on it. I'm not diagnosed, but at least I have something I can refer to…
people who suffer from that do not remember their parents every morning ... it's a rather extreme condition, that would probably mean you cannot live life unaided ... I've heard of one guy who has it, who got to university, but everyone has to help him live life ...
he's also extremely gifted in other areas, maths and so on, which is the reason he's found an academic life ... but otherwise, you spend your life petrified because you don't know anyone ...
@JoeWatkins I think there're different degrees of prosopagnosia. But again, for me it's just a word, I know that I'm not alone in this.
@JayIsTooCommon Recruiters are all assholes in their own ways, especially those ones that are sneaky and try to be 'different' (you can tell i have had bad experiences)
The job you go into entirely for money and nothing else
labels like that are usually best applied by professionals ... that's all I'm saying ...
and it's pretty ruthless
;)
Anonymous
09:53
Nov 7 '16 at 13:03, by JayIsTooCommon
fucking recruiters, I'm yet to meet one that isn't a complete money grabbing twat
Anonymous
aye, I'm still not having a great time
@JoeWatkins I need a "Professional Asshole" tshirt
@JoeWatkins I totally agree with you.
@Jimbo I thought that's what the scarf was for
@JoeWatkins the word is aphantasia. I've recently taken part in a study of it: bbc.co.uk/news/health-34039054 exeter.ac.uk/news/research/title_467790_en.html
09:55
I've not had to deal with recruiters ... but it would seem obvious they are in it for the money ... I mean if you met a person who said "I just really love finding people the right place to work", you would instantly distrust that person ...
@PaulCrovella Oof :D
@Trucy Nah, your avatar is part of your personality right :)
you spend your life petrified because you don't know anyone ...
@JoeWatkins A lot of them say that
Oh, I don't have it like that - I can remember people, I just have zero visualisation of anyone's faces.
09:57
@Danack I've not heard of that ... we were discussing this in particular, which I have heard of, but it only seems to occur in extreme forms
my wife is in the room next to me, I cannot conjur her face ... but if I see a photo of her I recognize her ...
Same.
Anonymous
@JoeWatkins there's in it for the money and in it for the money. Most people do their jobs for the money, but still put moral values first. In my experience, recruiters will do anything to get the job 'done', which normally includes lying
@JoeWatkins Some commission 20% of salary... of course they're in it for the money
huh, I'll read about it, ta
@JoeWatkins I disagree with that. That's like saying you do development just for the money when it's likely really a passion for it driving you. A recruiter who says they love bringing together the right people and companies has just the right motivation.
money is a necessity. but it's not the sole driver. hopefully.
10:00
I can't see any other drivers
@Gordon They have the right bullshit
@Gordon I work on most things during my day job for the money. They're not my projects, they'll never be amazing.
If I won the lottery, I'd still be hacking around with code :P
I work on stuff outside of work for ze passion
Anonymous
^
10:01
I work so I don't get deported
I like my work. I like the stuff we do. Even when I am ranting half day about how terrible php c extension hacking is. I don't do this for the money alone.
That doesn't mean I don't try and improve those projects that aren't my babies. It's just that I'm willing to compromise and "get shit done", because that's what I'm paid for
I work so I can survive
Anonymous
Interesting thought though, if I won the lottery would I still code...
Anonymous
10:02
probs not
!!wiki Maslow's hierarchy of needs
Maslow's hierarchy of needs is a theory in psychology proposed by Abraham Maslow in his 1943 paper "A Theory of Human Motivation" in Psychological Review. Maslow subsequently extended the idea to include his observations of humans' innate curiosity. His theories parallel many other theories of human developmental psychology, some of which focus on describing the stages of growth in humans. Maslow used the terms "physiological", "safety", "belongingness" and "love", "esteem", "self-actualization", and "self-transcendence" to describe the pattern that human motivations generally move through. Maslow...
@Trucy You'd still be alive without a job :)
@Danack 14/40
see above: the payment for my job satisfies a very different need than the actual work. the actual work is the upper two regions. salary is the safety area
10:03
@Jeeves I don't think my triangle looks like that
@Leigh Do you like apple?
also, the questions are strange, they tell you to imagine a thing, and then ask you how well you see it ... I don't see it, but comprehend the description they gave :s
@Jeeves I like apples, not Apple
@Leigh How about fries?
@Leigh Yeah, I know, but not with this lifestyle.
Anonymous
10:05
I dunno, I just don't see sitting in front of a screen writing code as enjoying life.. If only I was good at being outdoors..
@JoeWatkins yeah some people can see with their imagination. I think I can 'see' in my dreams, aka see an image in my head of 'some' dreams.....which I can't do at all when I'm awake.
doing this work just for the salary would be very depressing for me
also I learned that MRI machines are loud:
(and I need a better lifestyle. I'm constantly stressed about money.)
@Trucy safety layer.
10:07
(we're lucky that my SO has an authorised overdraft…)
Anonymous
@Gordon I find it enjoyable but also feel like it's a waste of time
Anonymous
SO == ?
@Gordon yup. Psychological was acquired when I started going out with the SO
@JayIsTooCommon Significant Other
Anonymous
what an odd phrase
@Danack I don't dream, I only have horrific nightmares, they are extremely vivid ... such that I will wake up and look around for signs that I was indeed having a nightmare ... go and look for bodies, check myself for wounds, check the kids are alive and things ...
10:10
@JayIsTooCommon I use this because the gender of my SO isn't important :)
(but if you're curious about it, she's a she)
Anonymous
:) i don't think people use the words girlfriend and boyfriend because the gender is important, it's just a label
@JayIsTooCommon But some people could go "A girl with a girl? That shouldn't be allowed".
Well I hoped that I wouldn't get this kind of reactions on SO, but you never know…
Anonymous
I doubt you ever would here but don't hide the gender of your partner because of that, if you do that then they're winning :)
fair point.
@NikiC github.com/Microsoft/tolerant-php-parser how is this compared to your parser? (which I'm using)
10:23
@Trucy you certainly won't in this room ... we would just tell them to fuck off ...
@JoeWatkins that's what I'm thinking now. But when I first came here, I couldn't be sure about it
(even if now I know that if a community/employer refuses to accept me as I am, it's a sign that I should never be in contact with them ever again)
there's reason to be optimistic that this matters less and less, I think ...
I think too
I have a budget for GIT training for my team. Can anyone recommend a paid resource that I can use for this? Can be a course, trainer etc
And not just standard git training. Patterns, how to resolve merge conflicts etc
/s/patterns/workflows/ ?
10:38
Maybe glossing over workflow, sure, but more about what to do when things fuck up :)
Can be 1/2 a day or full day
I have no idea by the way, I sort of fumble along hoping I don't mess anything up too badly ... is that a workflow ?
@Jimbo rm -rf repo; git clone :-D
we've taken up using arcanist which comes with phab, because we adopted a different workflow ... mostly that insulates them from using git directly, but nothing really bad has happened yet, so I couldn't recommend that route (insulation with tooling) ...
I would say that I don't think everyone needs to be a git guru ... it may just be a waste of time, and not all that interesting to most people ...
10:41
\o
Are there maybe Let's Encrypt users in the room? :)
@Gordon Git not github ;) We're using bitbucket actually
"The best way to use Let’s Encrypt without shell access is by using built-in support from your hosting provider. If your hosting provider offers Let’s Encrypt support, they can request a free certificate on your behalf, install it, and keep it up-to-date automatically." My hosting provider has an option for that yes.. I enabled it... but what now? :D
@Jimbo I'll ask. Can you send me a short list of topics you want covered?
also services.github.com/training is not just GitHub. They got self paced trainings for cli and stuff
@Duikboot Does your hosting provider have an article in their help centre on what you need to do?
10:51
@jjok Yes, but it's even simplified in 'just click the button and you'll get it on your domain'.
So I did that and now i'm curious. I mean I would like to do some test where I can make sure that let'sencrypt is working
@Duikboot what test? go to your domain. Enter https and see if it shows the cert
or go to ssllabs.com/ssltest and enter your url
I've gotten keys for new Azure translator thing, just let me know how to send it across /cc @DaveRandom @PeeHaa
@iroegbu You can Twitter DM them to _DaveRandom or email them to <my screen name> at php dot net

« first day (2293 days earlier)      last day (2881 days later) »