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00:02
I know what to do - I'll add it.
apparently error has some same methods with exception github.com/Zvax/Tier/blob/dev-handling/src/Tier/…
@Danack Have you heard of Lewis's law?
I hadn't but I'm sitting in front of a computer attached to the internet.....so yes, now.
holds true for most things....
00:09
@SeanDuBois help would be appreciated, I guess. Particularly in making me stop procrastinating and actually write some code/text :)
...
What is mean "So should you" in this context?
"We want to expand our knowledge and understanding. So should you."
It means that you should also want to expand your knowledge and understanding
Ah I see (however I guessed it), Ok thanks :-)
@auroraeosrose @CalEvans I said I wanted to learn async, not learn how to hate myself.
Oh.....if it's not a one off; now that's a twitter feed twitter.com/pmjones
00:35
So what's the derogatory term (and abbreviation) for jackasses who spend their time railing against "social justice warriors"? I see their brand of self-righteous bullshit spewed far more often than any of the "SJWs" they're in this weird war with.
Bah, still baffled that we need documents and committees to just have people behave correctly on the interwebs. Not that they aren't needed, just baffled that they are needed.
00:54
@PaulCrovella “A bore is someone who deprives you of solitude without providing you with company.” - Oscar Wilde
Not exact.....but close...
Oh ffs.
I have managed to avoid PHP-Internals for over a decade. This Code Of Conduct RFC abomination requires my attention. Fight it with me.
> I haven't been involved in a group, but now that they're doing something that makes me not want to be involved with them, I'm going to get involved to stop it
man, he's quite something. those pics about guns control in his twitter too...
I'm trying to not say too much shit - but that's a real bold strategy for someone who runs a consulting business where he wants people to pay him to come in and teach them stuff.....
I must say that I agree with Stas that it is pretty much a solution for an actually solved problem. In some way at least. Maybe it solves other problems too, but it doesn't completely seem worth it.
I'm not really -1 on it, but neither +1.
I'm with Eli on it: `It's a pro-active step, which makes it clear to people who are not a
part of our community at the moment, when they happen to approach our
community, and perhaps, are interested/intrigued about joining it. That
yes, it will be a safe environment for them to do so.`
Though I'm not absolutely sure that the detail is right
Well, maybe. But a code of conduct would be the last thing to look for if I have to tell something.
01:06
> Because as we know, there are known knowns;
there are things we know we know.
We also know there are known unknowns;
that is to say
we know there are some things we do not know.
But there are also unknown unknowns --
the ones we don't know
we don't know.
As it is now, it seems to me, when enough people agree, someone will take steps when it goes too far. A formal committee banning people seems a bit unnecessary to me.
@bwoebi It's a solved problem for you. It's not a solved problem for people who are are not you. And it's a case where we (mostly) don't hear about people who are made to feel bad by other people being shits, because they just go away rather than bother trying to deal with ass-hats.
"when enough people agree" - which needs people to know that any complaints they make would be taken seriously, rather than being dismissed and that it is worth "the trouble" it would cause to make a complaint.
@Danack As said, I think, in case it escalates, you always can personally contact the karma people
I think we need some way of moderating discussion but I don't think this is really the right way.
01:11
Also, as always, someone may feel attacked by something someone else might not.
I haven't read this particular code of conduct but in general I don't envy people who have to try to enforce it.
A closed system reddit type thing might be better.
@bwoebi oh that's why this pmjones guy is so butthurt
there's been enough shit on internals over the years that would make a reasonable on-looker wonder if there was a code of conduct, so on the principle I'd be +1.. the details, meh, dunno
Code of Conduct: Use common sense. :-D
Yeah, that will work...
01:13
Well… it works… more or less.
Anyway… remember that time where Derick was called a knob here…? Yes, that's not great. but time healed that issue. Just regulating always doesn't help too much … imagine Joe would've been banned for that…
Jimbo also needs to curb his sharp tongue.
oh great, he's actually participating now
> The rights of the accused are entirely ignored.
@bwoebi the problem is that at the moment there's no process, so people have to act unilaterally. this means 1) people are often scared to act, 2) if they do act, they may be accused of abusing their power, 3) people don't know where the line is necessarily, meaning people self-censor for fear of crossing it, or are awful because they think they're not overstepping it
@Andrea It is good that you are scared to act. Just act when really necessary and it's really obvious that action was needed.
@bwoebi You say some stupid shit sometimes Bob.
You really think people who are being harrassed should be scared to tell other people what is happening?
@Danack uhm, no. I was talking about the people who are actually doing the ban.
at least that was who Andrea was referencing?
depends if they're being scared to act for correct reasons
@Andrea Also, a code of conduct is always often leaving room for interpretation… (where the line is)
being scared to abuse of a power is one thing. being scared of community retribution is another
@FélixGagnon-Grenier actually, if you are scared of community retribution, you always can ask someone else first for his opinion. After all, that committee could be target of community retribution too if it decides badly.
01:24
A system with "report to moderators", ability to ban, ability to +1/-1, etc while maintaining chronological order would probably solve a lot of issues, not just code of conduct ones.
@Danack People who feel harassed ideally should contact someone with the karma to ban.
we just maybe should make that a bit more public who exactly this is, but we don't really need a formal committee etc. for that, IMO.
@LeviMorrison any more thoughts on the enum reflection causa?
@bwoebi No, I haven't had any time.
I teach my very first university lecture tomorrow. I've been busy.
@LeviMorrison oh :-)
that sounds terrifying
01:30
@LeviMorrison gogogogo! \o/
...
01:49
 $body = new Stream('php://temp', 'wb+');
 $body->write($this->jsonEncode($data, $encodingOptions));
 $body->rewind();
Lets pick on PSR-7 again, for a change.....
$this->jsonEncode() ? :o
meh - the wrapping to make json_encode sane has to live somewhere....and PHP function loading is not usable....
/dat memory thrashing though....
@Danack what exactly is insane about json_encode()?
Having to remember to check for errors is a bore.
Having to do:
    // Clear json_last_error()
    json_encode(null);
before calling json_encode on your actual data to clear the last error...
uh, you only care about the error in case it actually failed?
01:58
yeah, but warnings 'n shit
json_en/decode doesn't emit warnings?
just properly check for the return value…
Yeah, just remember to not forget stuff and it's all good.
@bwoebi that's why we wrap it with APIs that do that, so we don't forget stuff, and we have something that behaves in a predictable/sensible way
yeap, doesn't emit warnings indeed, but returns false (also on decode, but there also when decoding "false")
@Ocramius decode returns null and there no such value in Php 7.
@Ocramius and throw an exception so that it'll blow up in prod?
oh well, as you can see I can't even remember the return values
this is what is called an API WTF: 3v4l.org/mLe8I
yes, I throw exceptions so it blows up in prod
it NEEDS to blow up, that's pretty much a requirement
02:10
PHP 8.....
EXCEPTIONS FOR ALL THE (appropriate) THINGS.
YES PLEASE
and swag
@Ocramius null is returned because false is invalid.
@bwoebi no, false is returning correctly for "false", it's "yadda" that is invalid
but the problem remains: I don't see execution being stopped somehow (due to an exceptional condition)
so we wrap things and make them usable: github.com/zendframework/zend-json/blob/…
Eig, I meant because false is valid and null isn't, null is the failure case.
Also, while I like to be defensive, I'm not liking primitives to throw. But it's fine for wrappers.
not a primitive?
02:14
json_decode is a JSON primitive?!
#define primitive
a primitive for me is pretty much a construct, not even a core function
Uh, a primitive is a function providing fundamental API access, not being an alternative nor a wrapper.
@bwoebi "null is a failure case"? var_dump(json_decode(json_encode(null)));
json_decode is just an implementation of a json decoder provided by PHP
there are userland ones, therefore it's not a primitive
accessing an array index is a primitive operation
array_key_exists() is not a primitive, because I can emulate it
I can't emulate isset(), for example. That would be a primitive
@Danack I was sure this changed with PHP 7...
02:20
It was talked about too late to actually do anything about......same as the shit-show that is PCRE errors.
array_key_exists can be emulated?! Anyway, json_encode() is providing fundamental access to PHP's impl, yep. And in a cutom userland impl I'd expect at least one function which doesn't throw on a bad json.
@bwoebi yes, array_key_exists() can be emulated. I can use isset() + a notice guard (because of the beauty of the language)
actually, just the warning works too... so maybe I can even emulate isset()
02:35
@Ocramius A notice guard. Can we please srop that discussion now? ....
And I shouldn't chat that much on my iPhone... Too many typos
don't you have that swipe thing for your keyboard?
That works well when you have one language, but not when regularly writing Luxembourgish or German in between... Switching back and forth is annoying
02:56
@Andrea Did you see my earlier mention, are you interested/have the time to make a patch for keyword arguments. It would be fun to do it, but would rather see the feature done in a timely manner/correctly!
I always can have lots of fun with igbinary...
Also re: CoC, the important thing to me about Open Source was this sense of Anarchism/Syndicalism. I am sure the CoC will be really helpful, but sure does feel authoritarian
It was best when it was all nicks on IRC and everyone was mean to each other and no one cared, or knew who they were arguing with heh
s/best/a load of shite/
@Danack really!? You like it here better than Freenode/efnet?
Everyone has all their personal baggage, twitter/facebook attached
I prefer anonymity, people say what they really want to say
which is exactly the problem. easy to talk big when you're are not being responsible, nor held accountable for what you say
people on 4chan are some sort of example
When you have identities (like reddit) people just say the popular thing so they can get the positive feedback of votes
also true.
I'm not exactly sure what's what in this regard
in fact. no. I'll retract that.
some people say the popular things
and it's very easy to tag them as such
some other won't, and will equally be associated with truly speaking
03:10
Then they will be downvoted, and no one can see their comments
message boards/irc everyone has an equal voice
hmmm..... downvote doesn't necessarily mean not saying the popular thing. it can also just be wrong, no? or do you mean that on touchy subject, the popular voice will be heard whereas the unpopular one will disappear under the downvotes?
man the android tag
I mean... questions get sooo many votes, I don't even
I have seen that usually the unpopular opinion gets downvoted (it could be wrong, hateful etc...) but it has a right to be heard
"right".. what "right" is that?
1 + 2 = 4
what ever ad campaign has convinced us what is "right" this week :)
what is this "right to be heard" you claim exists?
03:17
oh that
everyone has a right to be heard, even if we disagree with them
wait, isn't that the right to speak?
@FélixGagnon-Grenier also easy to deface someone, fwiw. Saw it happen way too many time in SEO contexts.
On March 15, 1962, President John F. Kennedy presented a speech to the United States Congress in which he extolled four basic consumer rights, later called the Consumer Bill of Rights. The United Nations through the United Nations Guidelines for Consumer Protection expanded these into eight rights, and thereafter Consumers International adopted these rights as a charter and started recognizing March 15 as World Consumer Rights Day. == Background == Before the mid-twentieth century, consumers had limited rights with regard to their interaction with products and commercial producers. Consumers had...
Also probably did it as paid work once, can't really remember
@Ocramius defacing someone, that is ?! :p
03:18
right to be heard / right to speak -- I just think everyone (no matter how awful you find them) should be able to speak
@FélixGagnon-Grenier a business
black hat SEO is a sad but true reality
hopefully I'll never make that kind of enemies in my life
@SeanDuBois a right to speak doesn't say anything about being heard
it takes very little. I saw something happen from a "presumably good" entity as well, and very recently
... ok I was about to let it go but I'm curious.
03:21
and frankly I'm far too tired of listening to bullshit for it to be required in some imaginary "right"
@PaulCrovella Yes I agree with that, you can do anything you want
I kind of agree with @Paul. People can say all sort of things, from beautiful intelligent things to deep hate bullshit.
just because it is said doesn't place it on par with any other said thing
I just dislike authority/rules, and I avoid them as much as possible I like my freedom
I missed a turn
03:23
that is all, pretty subjective conversation no one is going to be swayed here :)
Hey champs
03:53
ok, who is messing with php.net manual?
:27912404 It's has geo-location based DNS lookup. You might be seeing a flaky mirror. It's fine here.
getting fine back here by the minute too. hence the mass deletion
> It does serve one useful purpose: to help identify who wants to be an authoritarian and shut down speech from others.
man. does he realize the tone he uses in fact support the rfc?
04:08
It's always a sign I should go to sleep when @JoeWatkins laps me..
I misinterpreted "laps" for a second there.
yeah - not taps.
I got kicked out of bed
blood, ink and lymphatic fluid on pillows makes misses angry ...
new tattoo?
yeah, right hand nearly complete
went to sleep with latex glove on, between pillows ... must have pulled glove off the first time I moved ... really messy
I see I missed a shit storm last night ...
04:17
It has only just begun...
stuff that seeks to stop offence makes me cringe ...
it doesn't work, but at least those who want the document can have it
I personally CBA anymore
why is that @Joe? I mean... the goal of stopping offensive things, if any, is not bad, is it?
@FélixGagnon-Grenier there is a legal system for this sort of stuff, y'know
well, not in all countries ofc
but apparently, developers are better lawyers than lawyers :P
some of the aims are laudable ... I like some of it ...
04:26
... there may be undesirable behavior before criminal offense...
lol
There is always undesirable behavior in everything. Your freedom ends when my freedom begins, and for that sort of boundaries there's the legal system
I usually just leave this channel when I'm offended here: I did it few times
meh. that's old news. legal system doesn't get here. loud mouthed people often has larger freedom space than others. I mean... I really have no saying on the rfc as obviously I don't know about internals, but overall, getting people to behave is a relevant goal
It's something your parents should do, not an organization. An organization has an employment contract for you to agree with (legal system) :-P
but yeah, education is not a privilege bestowed onto many.
"freedom" has jack shit to do with any org's "don't be a dick here" policy
well... hopefully I wish to not live in a world where the only behavioral guideline is the law
04:30
@PaulCrovella I'm free to be a dick. I'm actually even being a bit of a dick right now
but again, I CBA, therefore I'll eject from the discussion and see you another day
and that has nothing to do with policy
I agree, @Ocramius is a dick ...
See? see?!
burn him! :P
hehehe
04:34
what does it say about us if we refuse to abide by such a code of conduct, other than the cringe factor there aren't legitimate grounds to object ... unless you have intentions to be a dick .... the cringe factor can surely be limited by more rigorous definitions of acceptable conduct that don't include the word offence, or any derivative word ...
but but but... MUH FREEDUMS
Well you see, as much as I agree that "I am offended" means not much, I have to live by the fact that when I am offended nobody gives a shit, but when women/fat/black/gay people are then there is a whole lot of fucks to be given
2
my... did I just totally spoke of something else there?
no you see, there is a difference between offence, and inciting or espousing hatred ... let's imagine I'm gay, if someone writes to the mailing list and refers to me as a "fucking queer", that's not wrong because it's offensive, but because it incites and espouses hatred, it happens to be offensive to most ears, but so fucking what ...
if somebody called me a "fucking queer" in a public place I'd just send them a letter from my attorney (if there was an image damage) :-P
let's imagine I'm white caucasian male, and everybody refers to me as that fucking guy responsible for the problems of pretty much everyone else in the world.
04:42
but yeah, "so fucking what"
oh wait, that's not fucking imagination, that's actually real, and actually incites hatred
(s/me/us)
who is saying it's white males that are responsible for the problems in the world ?? that seems a pretty bizarre thing to say to me ...
I've never got that impression ...
@JoeWatkins we actually do, but I think he implied "irony"
anyway, the point was there is difference between being offensive, which you have the right to do, and inciting or espousing hatred, which you do not have the right to do, not because it's offensive but because its morally wrong to do so, and in the most of the civilized world, illegal whatever ...
> illegal whatever
pretty much back to the first point above
(agree)
04:49
and where it's legal there's still no requirement that I (or php.net) provide you with a megaphone to be a dick to a wider audience
yeah, I diverged a bit. What you say is pretty sensible. So isn't it what the rfc is about? I don't remember reading "if I'm offended you're out"
the funny part is as much as you are hand-waiving offended people, moral can as easily be hand-waived. who chooses it? who exactly has the right of it?
it's actually the terminology in the document itself that I find objectionable
not the rfc
for example, meat eating people are considered morally unaceptable by people who added the animals in our circle of morality
> Project maintainers have the right and responsibility to remove, edit, or reject comments, commits, code, wiki edits, issues, and other contributions that are not aligned to this Code of Conduct, or to ban temporarily or permanently any contributor for other behaviors that they deem inappropriate, threatening, offensive, or harmful.
oh yeah. I wholefully agree this can and probably will be reworded
@Sara you rock.
05:00
@Ocramius yeah it's legitimate to acknowledge that it's illegal, but I don't think that a good reason to back away from the conversation ... most of us can't lawyer up, simple as that ... and why shouldn't we be responsible for maintaining a decent working environment in our own ecosystem ?? Employers are responsible for that ... there are no employers here, but someone has to do the job, right ??
good morning..ALL
the working environment is the closest analogy of what we have here, in that environment it's the employers responsibility to ensure that the law is applied in the kind of circumstances covered by the CoC ... acknowledging that we should have a similar entity seems like a good idea to me ...
@JoeWatkins fully agree that most of us can't lawyer up: that's indeed something you'd do if there was an image damage. Regardless of that, if you want a CoC then get a CLA system in place and let's not do these half-assed things. Taking responsibility starts from actually opting into it.
and this means getting a legal team to design it. This is not like an event, where you "enter" and therefore "opt in"
(conferences, etcetera)
contracts aren't necessary for anyone to say "I don't want to associate with you anymore."
it's not up to the legal system to resolve every interpersonal dispute
Therefore we're designing thin air, I assume?
05:07
huh?
> contracts aren't necessary for anyone to say "I don't want to associate with you anymore."
I basically can do wtf I want within the community as long as I don't give a damn about the CoC?
and the community can tell you to piss off
this isn't that complicated
licensing code and conducting yourself seem to be different concerns ... I've never signed a CLA that included a CoC section, I don't think ...
So basically this document is harmless and useless
@JoeWatkins fairly sure I did ages ago, I think for mozilla
I don't remember stuff too good, I maybe have ... it seems like something I would remember, I wouldn't sign anything that limited by ability to be offensive ... it's one of my favourite things :D
I dunno if I signed mozilla one
05:10
This is drupal question
@JoeWatkins I think I did to upload my first firefox extensions to addons.mozilla.org. Contained some stuff about offensiveness of anything I post within a set of websites
So the problem is that if this CoC is actually aimed at defending the most vulnerable parts of the community (minorities, mostly), I don't see how it is defending them if there is no possible action taken.
@Ocramius they can revoke access to various systems run by the group (mailing lists and whatnot). that's the extent of the "harm" available.
they never had any obligation to provide access in the first place
I have ff plugins out there ... but I didn't sign the thing, just wrote the code ...
Did that Mr Jones guy hit his head recently - he seems not just disagreeing, but going completely loopy....
Yeah, that's useless. Basically I (malicious person) could (example) target a particular person of a minority (gender/ethnicity) and keep ruining their daily life (stalking) via different means without the commmunity providing any actual help
so it's basically marketing at this point: "we have a CoC, we're cool as well"
05:14
seems easy for final document to make provision to cooperate with law enforcement where it seems appropriate ?
Now I dislike the document and I also believe it to be useless in its current form
@JoeWatkins yeah, but again, for that to happen you'd need a proper division, not just 5 people with arbitrary decisions based on... what?
are you being obtuse on purpose?
don't read the CoC document, read the RFC and think about ways to word the CoC document ...
@Ocramius It's not meant to solve all problems. It's meant to allow people to be involved in a project and know they at least aren't going to have to deal with certain types of shit within that project.
@Ocramius Well, that I agree with, but we can at least say "We won't be the medium of your abuse." "The victim doesn't have to leave the project just to avoid you." It doesn't protect them everywhere, but it protects them here.
What @Danack said :p
05:15
That makes more sense, but it still doesn't protect any damaged entity from continuing getting damaged after the php-src means reach their limits
@Ocramius This word keeps getting used: "Arbitrary", as though once bestowed with power, a council will be unassailable. Any capricious bans would be obvious candidates for deposement.
so.. "hey I can't protect you in the end of the wood, so let's have no protection whatsoever"
Okay, I made up the word "deposement", but the rest is true.
@Sara I use "arbitrary" because there must be a precise list of disallowed actions if you want it to not be arbitrary :P
oh, wait, I'm translating arbitrary wrong...
05:17
@Ocramius Agreed 100%. And that should be part of this RFC.
yeah, we're reading a draft ...
EXACTLY
a request for comments
fair enuff, I'll pop up again when this looks more like a fail2ban rule configuration then :)
IMHO, any council would exist primarily for dealing with the sensitive parts of the workflow. Keeping the accuser (and the accused) anonymous until there's a preponderance of evidence to support bringing it to discussion.
Then presenting that evidence (only redacted far enough to maintain reasonable safety for ALL) for discussion (and defense).
The issue of unilateral temp-bans should further be restricted to cases where the accused is continuing to act >IN PUBLIC< (i.e. on list, in commits, etc...) in a destructive way.
> You're great at C, Sara, but you're horrible at law.
:D
05:22
@JoeWatkins I am great at C, aren't I?
I'm totally fine with it being fuzzy and subjective. As soon as you start spelling out precise lists, some jackass is going to cause problems within the letter of the CoC but not the spirit of it.
@Sara hehe
in some sense, someone loosing their shit must really care ... they might not be very good orators, but they seem to care ...
@PaulCrovella That sort of thing can be a balance of scope and power. "The following is DEFINITELY BAD and you will be sanctioned without mercy." "Other actions not listed may result in sanctioning at the discretion of the community."
@JoeWatkins He certainly seems to care, but he's being abusive and non-productive. I can't imagine he's winning many hearts and minds.
@JoeWatkins not sure about that.... I lose my shit often, and that can be related to a number of things, from alcohol to my humor, to the phase of the moon
@Sara I'm still reading from half hour ago, not there yet ...
05:24
@JoeWatkins are we supposed to care that he cares so much?
spoiler alert would have been nice ... fyi ...
@JoeWatkins Make up your own mind. I personally don't care for his behavior.
@JoeWatkins I suggest saving this till the afternoon, but checking out his twitter feed is....discombobulating....
@Sara I'm pretty sure he cares about his own persecution complex... not so much about this rfc in particular.
> discombobulating....
wait, what?
05:26
It's a perfectly cromulent word.
4
brilliant
Verb: discombobulate ‎(third-person singular simple present discombobulates, present participle discombobulating, simple past and past participle discombobulated)
  1. (transitive, humorous) To throw into a state of confusion; to befuddle or perplex.
oh my fucking gods. thanks for letting me know...
I thought the "wait, what?" was a fine definition of it
@Sara no, me neither ... but I think focusing on the wrong bits ...
I don't care for the wording of the CoC either ...
5:30 am is not the time for trying to word internals comms ... so I'm going to leave it a while ...
@Danack go to bed ...
05:32
nn.
@JoeWatkins Yeah, that's the problem with that subthread. Taking away ability to properly work out the issues with the RFC.
I'm thinking we should add something about being an annoying noisy twat.
I kind of wonder if he's trying to provoke a reaction. Get himself sanctioned over "mere asshole behavior", to "prove" that power corrupts... or something.
05:40
it's usually self evident when someone is smart ... if I have to look for smart people by trying to decipher smart motives for the stupid things they do, then I'm out, I quit being human ...
s/corrupts/is a handy thing to have around/
it'd be corrupt if someone took a bribe to boot him from the list... which is not to say I won't pitch in $5
@PaulCrovella And if he got booted without cause, I'd expect the council to have to answer for it.
okay $10
05:50
Hello All,
I want to currency conversion in my application here is my URL
@PaulCrovella probably better off bribing with jelly babies ....
i use simple file_get_contents() function to get google currency conversion. But it says Connection time out. but same code is working fine in local system. Is there any server related issue for this same.?
I read somewhere they bring out the dark side ... make us smile while engaging in fanciful, but still arguably real, infanticide and cannibalism ... I'm going to do all my bribing with jelly babies ...
moin @AnmolRaghuvanshiVersion1.0
this sounds like some UK thing I need to try
05:56
Jelly Babies are a type of soft sugar jelly sweet, shaped as plump babies in a variety of colours. They were first manufactured in Lancashire, England in the 19th century. Their popularity waned in England before being revived by Bassett's of Sheffield, Yorkshire who were responsible for mass-producing Jelly Babies from 1918. == History == 'Jelly Babies' are known at least since advertisements by Riches Confectionery Company of 22 Duke St, London Bridge in 1885, along with a variety of other baby-sweets including 'Tiny Totties' and 'Sloper's Babies'. But the pricing of these at a farthing each...
@Sameer It's possible your host prohibits outbound http connections, or maybe they allow it and enough people on your host spam google that THEY are blocking you. Or maybe you need to use an HTTP or SOCKS proxy to access external sites.
@Sameer If you have shell access, start by just trying `curl your-url'; and see what happens. If it works, then it may be the proxy issue. Add -v to that command and it'll show you the conversaion, including any proxy it's configured to use.
Thank you so much @Sara for support. Actually, I don't have shell access of host
@bwoebi if people are scared it means they don't intervene
@bwoebi still clearer than if you lack rules
@SeanDuBois do you mean mandatory named parameters? I dunno how I feel about those. I think Objective-C has them
@Sameer Bummer. Not much I can do to help then. Try to hit another external site to see if it's google throttling you. If that also fails, check your hoster's documentation for any mention of "proxy" or prohibited outbound connections.
06:12
@sara
Thank you for your help. I am going for host support.
06:30
morning
good morning...
mornin
I'm starting to think this was all a ploy to expose the total fucking lunatics in the php world.
@PaulCrovella it was only matter of time tile SocJust clowns started appearing
don't you recall the "calling a branch 'master' is offensive" bullshit in Python community?
07:13
good morning
07:28
Cheeky @FélixGagnon-Grenier :P
It's not fair to tease me before I've had my first cup of coffee :p
I'll wait a bit next time... As for now, I definitely need to get some sleep. nn
Nite
Yo @Gordon can I bother you with a question since you're an' old mod?
@Epodax sure
07:45
I'm having some issues with a SMTP server and static / dynamic IP, and I'm a tad unsure whether it would be suitable question for SO, since it's not coding as such but there's a fairly large load of emails questions / SMTP questions on SO? (My google searches finds me naught but service providers)
So my question would properly be, do you think it would be better suited for Serverfault?
either ServerFault or SuperUser
it kinda depends on nature of the particular question
True, I think I'll properly try to dig past all the service provider questions and see if I can find anything useful before asking, I'd hate to be a hypocrite ^^ thanks.
@Epodax it would likely be better on SF, though you can ask it on SO and put a note into the question like "please migrate to SF if better suited there" or something
08:00
@Gordon Sure, thanks Gordon :)
@Danack Eh? What sharp tongue? Where'd that come from :P miserable git
@FélixGagnon-Grenier You are completely not wrong
08:20
@bwoebi Wait, you're kidding. Calling someone a nob might've been jokey, and it may have been ever so slightly offensive, but it's not inciting hatred or anything against anyone as Joe suggested.
Morning 11-ers!
moin o/
\o
morning
08:44
@bwoebi Can you ping me when you're on?
PHP Official code of conduct eh?
Why does it feel like its meant as a two fingered salute to PSR?

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