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05:00
@MikeM. When you think about it ... what is the key difference between print '<h1>Hello {0}</h1>'.format(name) in a language like Python and <h1>Hello <?=$name?></h1> in a language ike PHP.
$a is for E.G some data out of the database table templates.
That shall actually output 'test' instead of nothing except a comment.
I hope it's better explained now.
on what I mean.
Just try to think about what I'm saying for a second and look at the code from a distance. There's a very subtle difference, but it's one that's important to helping you solve this problem well.
And by well, I mean by not over-engineering the problem.
:)
To be honest I suck in python. but I think I kinda get it.
But I don't think that's nearly close to what I mean.
@MikeM. So what's the difference between them?
Barely anything.
05:03
Wrong. There's a very distinct difference.
{0} gets replaced by name thanks to format()
In Python you are embedding HTML into code. In PHP you are embedding code into HTML.
<?=$name?> would place the name variable to that area.
One language is naturally more conducive to the idea of templating.
would a blog with an interface like "help", or modals be better?
05:04
Remember the php file is not structered as html content , php content, html content
I know that you can place php into html
if the script is run as php.
Stop trying to explain your problem to me and start trying to understand what I'm telling you. Trust that I am not the one who is confused about what the problem is and that I'm trying to help you.
any thoughts?
I know you're trying to help me, but I am getting confused about what you're trying to say.
Because you're not thinking about what I'm saying. You're still focused on trying to explain your problem to me.
I get your problem. I understand it fully. It's a silly problem to have, because you created it.
In my eyes, your trying to explain this to me: i.imgur.com/Ep3hbQH.png
05:07
Stop trying to avoid PHP and start using it.
No, I'm trying to explain to you that you are over-thinking your problem.
You just want a templating system, right?
I have good news for you... you are already using one.
I have a working templating system.
-.-
Obviously not working well enough if you're here, right?
It's working with php content
and custom variables.
Abe
Abe
05:09
@marcio not a big bc break though. did you ever find someone writing a fqn like that? :D
not with php inside of it.
Abe
Abe
i would break their code on purpose! :D
@MikeM. Let me put this to you another way that will make it harder for you to avoid dodging my question. Your templating system is written in PHP, yes?
Ofcourse.
But the data for the page is obtained from the database.
@MikeM. Great, so why are you writing a templating system in something that is essentially a templating system.
05:10
Because it's eassier for the end user to obtain through the ACP.
How's it easier? And what is ACP?
ACP == Admin Control Panel
can i pick your minds on blog design?
OK, so how is your templating engine any easier than PHP?
Forum software.
You don't get it sherif
05:11
That's not an answer to my question.
It was an answer to Codepen is
i know, but what looks better
Sorry?
What looks better as in?
search with modals, or help layout?
Abe
Abe
@CodePenisBetter such an unfortunate nick choice
05:12
Well, whenever you feel like answering my question let me know. Until then I can't help you address a problem you are trying so hard to avoid examining.
i like codepen more than jsfiddle
Sherif, I think you're confused by me, thinking the php code is inside the php file or strictly the php file, trying to make custom system to run it as php.
i'm looking for a difinitive answer
That's not what it is.
Users may use an if statement in a template from the database in order to show some message or so.
They don't need to get into the deep php scripts to edit their needs and get confused where to put it possible.
They need to be able to put at the spot they exactly want to put it
@MikeM. Please stop trying to convince me that I'm confused. Whenever you feel like you want to actually explore the problem by answering my question, I'm happy to help. Until then I have no interest in discussing what I am or am not confused about.
05:15
All I see you tried to explain is why not using PHP in a php file instead.
All I see is you avoiding my question.
You can't solve a problem you don't understand.
I just tried to explain the answer of your question.
@MikeM. Take a look at twig.sensiolabs.org, maybe it's what you're looking for.
fine, i'll choose the help method, since the modal method seems to be broken
@Trowski Well ye that's pretty much it.
05:18
@MikeM. No, you danced around the problem and tried to convince me that I don't understand. But you still haven't answered my very simple question of "How is your templating engine easier to understand than PHP?" That's actually a very simple straight-forward question. Either you know exactly how or you don't.
It doesn't require you dancing around for 15 minutes.
Users may use an if statement in a template from the database in order to show some message or so.
They don't need to get into the deep php scripts to edit their needs and get confused where to put it possible.
They need to be able to put at the spot they exactly want to put it
There it was.
Abe
Abe
with the new normalized php7 syntax, is there a way to make this working without using a temp variable?
class Baz{
    function __toString(){
        return "ArrayObject";
    }
}
function a(){
    return new Baz;
}
new (a())();
@MikeM. In other words, nothing.
Because you can do all of that with PHP.
@MikeM. Yeah, sounds like you just want something like Twig, so users can just write {{ field_name }} and your PHP script will fill in the value set for field_name in the template.
@Trowski Sort of, I already have that for my settings
05:20
You still haven't managed to explain how yours is any easier to understand. You just simply stated that it can do everything PHP can do.
Well... mostly because it is PHP :)
write <%URL%> and it will be shown as the url
The fact that you invented a new syntax doesn't make anything necessarily easier to understand. You just made a new syntax to understand.
But it's is saved as string in the database.
Yea, where you save code still hasn't changed the end-user's understanding either.
So outputting it using php will cause it to be commented out if you'd use php in that database template.
05:22
@MikeM. It's not exactly commented out, just browsers tend to ignore things between <? and ?>.
If you look to the mybb php in templates mod, you see that they use [if usergroup == 4] output this[endif]
and when the usergroup is equal to 4 it will output "output this"
That's what I kinda wanted to archive but then with plain php in that template instead of custom syntaxes.
Oh okay @Trowski
@MikeM. So you want your users to make templates with using PHP?
so whats being done in twig with {% was what I meant to be doing with [if
Inventing syntax for syntax's sake is moronic. Why is [if usergroup == 4] any harder to teach than if ($usergroup == 4)?
it's not that it's harder to teach for sake.
05:26
Then what is it?
it's to prevent users from getting a hard time in the php files itselves.
templates are saved in the DATABASE as STRING and outputted on the PHP PAGE
And how are they getting a hard time "in php files itselves" exactly?
@MikeM. Which is part of the reason Twig exists. I'd recommend using it rather than trying to invent something yourself.
Because the data is obtained from the database.
if the whole page is obtained from the database dynamicly.
How would it be easy for people to input some php if statament in the exact spot they want...
You're saying that the database will not allow you to save PHP code in the database?
05:28
@MikeM. I would consider storing the actual template as a file, and then storing the file path in the database.
The fact that it's saved in a database in no way addresses how one syntax is hard and another is easy.
You're missing the entire point and focusing on all the wrong things.
No I am not.
OK
This conversation is officially pointless.
I am aware you do as Trowski is not speaking out the things you're saying and is on the line what I am trying to get.
He exactly gets at this very moment what I meant, and you don't.
@Trowski, That would be the easiest solution indeed.
@MikeM. Be sure to verify the file path before using the template.
05:31
Well ye.
In case some tainted data gets in the database.
hmmm/
Right, just saying. A lot of people forget that.
Well I have a templating table, but I barely use it at this point
as my templates are based out of php files XD
@MikeM. I think the point @Sherif was trying to make is that PHP is a tempting language itself and that adding another layer may be pointless.
05:32
and each file requires the required files to output that.
But I wanted to move it all to the database.
@MikeM. Again, I wouldn't recommend storing template files in a database.
All that's saved there is at this moment the navigation bar links.
What exactly are you making?
A simple forum
There's quite a few PHP forums available. Any reason for not using one of them?
I'd recommend using one of those before trying to write your own.
05:43
I used vBulletin and phpbb and mybb
I liked mybb and vBulletin the most.
#1 was mybb for me as it wasn't as heavy as vBulletin, which comes to the point vBulletin comes with much crap into it which anyone barely uses.
Also if you look at their ACP it's not really organized well if you'd ask me, or there are just so many settings which you don't need.
if you look at mybb, you have all the profile options available at the users in the acp
if you look at vBulletin you have 3different pages going about the user options.
Just use the one that best fits your needs.
I am trying to authenticate a user against LDAP using his password. The encoding of password is utf8 ( as we checked using mb_detect_encoding). We are able to bind user password successfully, even when password contains special characters (e.g. Œ, ¿,¥, ¢) . However When the password contains spanish character i.e Peseta (₧), We are not able to bind with ldap successfully
Well, It just looked fun to create one by myself which I do now.
not going bad at all. The question earlier was just a question I was interested in knowing that for knowledge
user924016
mornings
@RonniSkansing Morning o/
05:52
I have to go to my work
cya.
Abe
Abe
morning o/
\o morning
morning
morning
last night I wrote a new kind of data structure for pthreads/zend, I don't even know how to describe it ...
05:58
what is it for?
it's not useful for anything other than pthreads but needed integration with zval to support refcounting, and a garbage collector ... it's like a dl list
I'm saying all this, because I need to name it ...
"stack" is what I'm leaning towards ...
but i don't want some clever fucker coming along saying "that's not a stack" ...
I think stack is pretty generic term, right ?
stack is pretty generic, yes
for a name it makes sense to not be over-generic.
best names perhaps come the next morning under the shower or similar.
well yeah, right this minute it's called "list" ... but it isn't that really ... it's at least two lists ...
does it translate values?
not sure what you mean ?
06:06
@JoeWatkins What's a dl list?
doubly linked
I try to avoid typing doubly ... and moist ...
heh
/me shudders
06:08
@JoeWatkins as you wrote you use it to bring pthreads and zval refcounting together I thought it might translate values like from pthreads to zval and the other way round.
@hakre oh no, the storage table does that ... which is next (currently a hashtable) ...
this used to be a hashtable ... because everything is, right :)
I find myself caring about things I didn't really care about before ... in PHP5, it was okay to use a hashtable for everything because we didn't care about memory ... but now I'm scrutinizing everything because php7 cares about this stuff ...
Yea, I used to not care about memory once thinking "oh, a hashtable is O(1) access and insertion, it's a worthy sacrifice"... then I came across big data problems that just couldn't be reasonably solved that way unless you were willing to fork out a fortune on memory.
That's when I learned about Bloom filters and was utterly fascinated by the prospect there were still data structures I had never even thought to utilize before.
@JoeWatkins Your structures name could become "seven-eleven" then.
:)
l8ters
@Sherif a hashtable was never really suitable, I was aware of that but php didn't care, why should I ? There used to be a TsHashTable but it was stupid, so I made do using a lock and normal table ... the whole design of pthreads created bugs that were hard to find, it's hard enough to find bugs in multithreaded software, but it had three locks and two synchros (state & mutex & condition) for every object, really quite difficult to get shift done ...
Please allow me to apologize for what I did last week .. :(
I am sorry for my actions and I hope that we can put this matter behind us. I look forward to learning from you all.I deeply regret
06:16
plus I made mistakes, because so complex ... mistakes I don't really know how to rectify other than to write it properly ...
so that's what I've done ...
@JoeWatkins Yea, the idea of locking turns me off. I prefer figuring out a sane way of doing space partition in the context of parallelism, but sure PHP never really cared about those things.
Remember what I told you when you first walked into #pecl on efnet and said you wanted to do threading in PHP?
;)
or mistakes that I can't actually see, but I can see pathways to them everywhere ... they are the worst, a mistake that you can't see is like a symptom that you have a bug in some mt code ...
Yea, those are your unknown uknowns
They're the hardest problem to have
@Sherif there is partition, at no point is shared nothing broken ...
but you still have some memory accessible by more than one context, even though they don't share the memory in the real sense of the word ... so you can't get away from synchronization ...
I just meant that if you get space partitioning right, you usually don't even need locking.
That's just easier said than done.
As I'm sure you've already discovered :)
It still falls under one of those really hard scheduling problems that are NP hard
06:23
there is not much point in going further than zend does though ....
Yea, but Zend locks everything with a mutex, doesn't it?
Mutexes are ughhh
Really? I thought you can only pass to engine in TS when threaded
Did something change?
mutex is used, but very rarely are they actually locked ... never during runtime ...
oh sure, but that's because the executor is concurrent, right?
errr
Not concurrent... I mean...
06:25
it's because you have more than one instance of the interpreter, which contains executor ...
Yea, that's what I'm getting at
So basically the mutex is just there as a "if you hit this you really fucked up" safety net
See... solving deadlocks and avoiding tehm really aren't birds of a feather as I once thought.
morning
mornin
@Sherif mutex are used when allocating new resource types (that's creating new kind of module globals), because that table is global and is realloced, it can be used when you fetch a resource but you'd have to be doing something strange to incur locking, there is a cache for that so you can avoid the lock almost all the time ...
moin @kelunik
I gotta go walk the dogs, they are getting on my nerves with the running and the squeaking ...
@JoeWatkins Yea, I didn't mean to say that the mutex locks. I miss spoke. My point was though that it's still slow. Sure they're necessary here, I get that.
06:43
@tereško will you clear my one doubt
PDO is orm ??
user3119231
morning.
user3119231
anyone can give hint how to convert a .csv into array by columns? (array[0] -> id, name, adress; array[1] -> id, name, adress)
@Maurize fgetcsv
user3119231
@Sherif thanks for that great hint. So I will have them row per row.
user3119231
I don't know why, but I have great problems with converting it into array per columns..
06:52
moin
user3119231
moin
user3119231
	foreach ($columnHeaders as &$columnHeader){
		global $db_host, $db_name, $db_user, $db_pass;
		$db = new PDO("mysql:host=$db_host;dbname=$db_name;charset=utf8", "$db_user", "$db_pass");
		if (count($db->query("SHOW COLUMNS FROM `Tickets` LIKE '".str_replace(" ", "_", $columnHeader)."'")->fetchAll())){
			echo $columnHeader."<br>";
			//outputs the columnHeader. So I just have to loop through array and compare?
		}
		$db = null;
	}
ewwww
my eyes
don't be so hard on yourself, your eyes aren't that disgusting
user3119231
^
06:57
@Maurize are you serious or is this some kind of bad joke?
user3119231
@Patrick what is so (bad) funny about this?
@Maurize there is nothing funny, there are about a hundred things wrong with it though
user3119231
@Patrick Then tell me whats wrong.
user3119231
hundred wrong things and still works?
Hey, can someone help me? I habe a code which writes data from a XML file into a PostgeSQL DB. That works so far, but when I change the XML file and upload it again, it doens't update the changed values. if ($reader->nodeType == XMLReader::ELEMENT && $reader->name == 'HSN') {
$hnr = $reader->getAttribute('Nr');


if ($hsns[$hnr]) {
$hsn = $hsns[$hnr];
} else {
$query->doQuery("select nextval('hsn_nr_seq')");
$query->fetch_into(1, $r);
$hsn = $r[0];


$SQL = "";
$SQL .= "INSERT INTO hsn (";
$SQL .= "nr, hnr, konzern";
06:59
@Maurize globals, sql string concenation instead of binding, references for a start
@Maurize working !== correct
And yes, it's vulnerable to SQL injection, i will wokr on it afterwards
user3119231
@Patrick doesn't make a shit. It is a local script and it works. I just need to add columns into arrays.
I have extension=php_openssl.dll uncommented, yet still I have my PC cmd complaining about it
posted on August 24, 2015 by kbironneau

/* by HeberCosFer */

@Maurize OK so you were given fgetcsv like 10 minutes ago. What's the problem?
07:01
It says The specified module cannot be found
user3119231
@Sherif fgetcsv only returns rows per default. I have to get only specific columns by name.
@dimoff Use php.exe --ini to locate the loaded configuration files for that binary. You likely just edited the wrong php.ini
@Maurize It returns the row as an array of columns. What's the problem?
@Sherif I did run where php and it showed the same dir where .ini is
@dimoff Great, now just run php.exe --ini to locate the loaded configuration files for that binary.
yep, loaded configuration file is in the same directory
C:/php
the standard one
07:05
@dimoff So what does php.exe --ini tell you about Loaded configuration file?
Loaded ini is C:/php/php.ini, the exe is C:/php/php.exe respectively
user3119231
@Sherif I need to convert a .csv into arrays BY COLUMNS. I don't find any way to do this, because every function only convert the rows into array
@dimoff And where are you seeing "The specified module cannot be found"?
user3119231
However should do the import with mysql functions
@Maurize How about the fgetcsv() function which gives you an array of columns?
:)
07:07
When I try to install composer manually (the .msi complains about openssl still), I run php -r "readfile('https://getcomposer.org/installer');" | php. If I ditch the s from https I get the warning. Doesn't work either way
user3119231
@Sherif facepalm I already have this array. This doesn't help me.
@Maurize How does this not help you? It's exactly what you asked for.
@dimoff I don't understand what you're trying to do here exactly. You want to disable openssl or you want to load it?
user3119231
@Sherif I need to convert a .csv into arrays BY COLUMNS. [0] -> columnname, value1, value2...
@Sherif I would like to install composer, that's all. It tells me it won't, since openssl isn't enabled
@Maurize Yea, I got that. That's what fgetcsv() does. What's the problem?
@dimoff OK So enable it.
user3119231
@Sherif Man. fgetcsv() simply put all stuff row per row, line by line in an array. NOT column by column
You said you'd commented out the extension=open_ssl.dll
@Sherif ...
uncomment it
07:10
I did
some time ago
I don't remember how to do those button things. But asking for close votes on that link. Thanks
@Maurize No, that's not what it does. Please read the link, try writing the code, and when you actually fail you can come back with a pastebin of the code that failed and I can show you how to get it to work. Until then please stop repeating your question as if I didn't understand it.
@dimoff OK, that's where I'm not clear. What is the problem you're trying to solve then?
@AnmolRaghuvanshi no
@tereško i read on slide share so bit confused
link?
Since the installer isn't working, I try to install the composer from the cmd with php -r "readfile('https://getcomposer.org/installer');" | php. I get unable to load dynamic library C:/php/php_openssl.dll. So it looks like it's not about php.ini, there's something else here
fail
user3119231
delv-pls on that same question
Can someone please remind me how to make the cv-pls appear like a tag?
@dimoff That error is saying it can't load the dll file you supplied in the extension directive in your php.ini file. The error message usually gives you a specific reason for why it couldn't load it ... like file not found, or permissions error, or something else.
Can you not ignore that part of the error message and read it carefully? It will help you in debugging why it couldn't load openssl.
@dimoff for example....
> Warning: PHP Startup: Unable to load dynamic library 'c:/wamp/bin/php/php5.4.3/ext/foo.dll' - The specified module could
not be found.
in Unknown on line 0
@AnmolRaghuvanshi yeah, person who write that is an idiot
Notice the "The specified module could not be found." part
That indicates that the file doesn't even exist.
Warning: PHP Startup: Unable to load dynamic library 'C:\php\php_openssl.dll' -
The specified module could not be found.
 in Unknown on line 0

Warning: PHP Startup: Unable to load dynamic library 'C:\php\php_openssl.dll' -
The specified module could not be found.
 in Unknown on line 0

Warning: readfile(): Unable to find the wrapper "https" - did you forget to enab
le it when you configured PHP? in Command line code on line 1

Warning: readfile(getcomposer.org/installer): failed to open stream: Inv
Ahh
See now we're getting somewhere
07:19
: )
@dimoff What is the value of extension_dir in your php.ini
One's blank, one is =ext
another one is extension_dir = "./"
What do mean another? There can only be one. I don't care about the comments.
@tereško so i can ignore it. i feel this is only blunder he has done ....
@Sherif all of them are comments
;sqlite3.extension_dir =
; extension_dir = "ext"
07:22
@AnmolRaghuvanshi those slides are also severely outdated and he focuses only on ORMs which combine business logic with persistence logic
Ok, I'll try to figure it out
@dimoff Yea, that's not extension_dir that's sqlite.extension_dir and it's a comment, which I already stated doesn't interest me. You can confirm this value by checking it in the runtime from the command line with php.exe -r "echo ini_get(\"extension_dir\");"
It sounds like it's basically not set in your php.ini which means it will use the CWD.
Which makes sense since the error is saying it tried looking for it in C:\php
I'll figure it out. Thank your for your patience and help
@tereško i didn't understand that can you give better link to study orm and data mapper in detail..
@dimoff I don't have trouble figuring out your problem. I'm just gathering needed information in order to give the best solution. But OK.
Best of luck.
07:25
@Sherif I don't want to be a lazy butt, though. You gave me enough clues
I did? What clues?
I was just asking questions that I needed to determine the best solution to offer you.
Well, there's a comment above one of the extension_dirs
that says windows
So I'll just set it to where the lib is
Yes, just try any random thing until something sticks. Sounds like a winning approach :)
@AnmolRaghuvanshi I dont have anything bookmarked for that, because I think that ORMs are useless. If you really want to learn how to use an ORM, then focus on studying Doctrine2.
@Sherif let me try it
07:29
You could also try turning your microwave on and off in the hopes that microwave radiation will leak, hit your harddrive platters at just the right angle, and flip the necessary bits that will result in success, but why bother.
You make a good point
I'm just baffled by what you're saying to me right now. You came in here looking for help and just when I was on the verge of giving you the solution and understanding of your problem you decided to walk away and guess at your problem.
@tereško i some how start believing orm is shit and framework tooo...
before writting article on that for my blog :D i should have considerable knowledge of orm ... otherwise i am not at all interested in it
I'm at a loss for words.
@Sherif yea. I caught myself going with the flow and not reasoning for myself and I've been cognitively lazy lately. I rely mostly on other people. Let me just try it and then we can continue (if you're in the mood)
Yo, does anyone know if there is a tool out there to convert sentences with èé signs etc to there html codes?
Hey guys, can I somehow modify or exclude fields in JMSSeriealizer's serializer.pre_serialize event?
@dimoff I have no misconceptions about your laziness or even the lack thereof nor was it was a factor in anything that I just said. What am I baffled by is the fact that you just exerted disproportionately far more time and effort in thwarting the very help you came here for than taking advantage of it.
Or in post_serialize.
@Sherif it's called learning. It sucks
07:37
@Duikboot Nope, no one knows about htmlentities it is a well hidden secret.
@Ivan0x32 modify for sure. exclude I am not sure. you probably want the @Group annotation instead
I know that, but that is not really what I am asking :)
@AnmolRaghuvanshi naah. ORMs have their usecases. But people tend to abuse them. ORMs are really good for rapid prototyping (where you can take advantage of scaffolding) and in projects, where you have very "flat" database (where you are using very few or no JOINs).
@dimoff No, learning is taking new information and digesting it. What you did right there, that's just called illogical. You neither took any new information nor had the opportunity to digest it. All you basically did was waste both of our time.
morning!
@Duikboot did you fix your problem with the domain?
07:39
The host fixed it :)
@dimoff That is to say you would have been better off never coming here to ask your question in the first place.
What a day implementing translations into a webpage -_-'
@Sherif ok, it started downloading composer. No, you lead me in the right direction and shaved off 90% of the work
@Duikboot It isn't? What are you asking then?
An online converter which can detect those characters, and replaces them with the htmlcode. -> mothereff.in/html-entities
07:41
@tereško i got it, you have already mentioned somewhere 3+ join orm fails.... does something like this apply to framework also ...
@Duikboot As opposed to doing it in PHP?
Oh, I see. You wanted Google.
My mistake.
Yea, I'm not a search engine. I just assumed your question was about PHP.
i am making efforts to find out why larvel or CI is abussed :P in SO chat
07:42
"codeigniter"
CodeIgniter
codeigniter
making sure it wasn't continuous integration.
Or Carbon Ions
You never know
those frameworks are hated here because they contain bad practices and their communities are willfully ignorant
2
07:43
Ignorance is bliss
and one of them is built by someone who is a complete and utter asshole
to other members of the community
ignorant/arrogant
If I hated code based on its bad practices and ignorant communities... I wouldn't have very much code left in the world to like :/
2
bad practices like what??? give on eg
Otwell just wants to be DHH
07:45
And that includes php-src
Stop starring those :/
@AnmolRaghuvanshi "facades". They misuse a name for a pattern and hide behind that the global state
@AnmolRaghuvanshi Active record which couples your entities to the database
^ that would be Eloquent
@Jimbo @tereško got it ...
07:48
and then there is the complete perversion of what laravel refers to as "mvc"
Don't expect to learn anything that will advance your career in Laravel. The only thing you will advance is your knowledge of Laravel. And if you ever want to move to another language... no chance.
but its for web artisans?
just kidding...
no i am not at all interested in laravel bull shit i just want to learn a what a framework is so i learn CI...
@AnmolRaghuvanshi CI is worse, would you believe it
i didn't know that before @Jimbo
07:52
@Jimbo its arguably better, cuz its less
:P
@AnmolRaghuvanshi But don't take our word for it, you need to go away and learn why
so what should be preffered building our own framework @Jimbo
@AnmolRaghuvanshi No framework tutorial, or a micro-framework like silex where you pick / choose your own components and decide on your own architecture
i nailed it....
@Jimbo so how big projects are handled in industry they rely on framework or not
@AnmolRaghuvanshi Depends what the architect chose at the time, some use legacy frameworks, some use custom
07:58
"You should build your own PHP anyway" -@rasmus on FDO in his #php7 talk at #froscon http://t.co/mvr5Ih2Oo2
relevant
i just started reading clean code and design patterns hope this will be helpful..

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