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00:01
Funny how many bugs.php.net bugs are just from sucky PECL packages that are poorly-maintained
00:22
@AndreaFaulds yeah.....I'm going to write an email about that. It made sense having all the bugs in one place before github. But nowadays everything should be on github which has a better issue tracker.
Also, the talk of a tool to migrate from 5.6 to 7 - is that an actual thing or just in people's heads?
@Danack I think it's a good idea
Is there something that people can be pointed to?
Or is it just a good idea at the moment?
Idea.
I wrote a PHP 4 constructor finder... but that RFC hasn't passed
@Danack I think @NikiC has something.
00:44
Should we have a default __toString? Reference: bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=40799
I don't think so. i) Not every object can be converted to string, ii) calling methods at random in a program shouldn't be supported iii) I still really dislike Java's 'every class is descended from object' and don't think moving to something closer to that is a good idea.
what the hell do I do with bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=43287
@AndreaFaulds feedback and "have you tried using json_encode, it should be faster as it doesn't need to test for references" ?
@Danack OK
Done
01:06
bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=40051 This one is asked stupidly, but raises a decent point - why isn't there a userland function to see if two variables are references of each other?
@Danack Interesting. Such a function would be easy to write, I think there's a case for it.
Or just remove references from the language.
Can't :(
01:25
well
now that I've wasted loads of time dealing with ancient bugs
Time to work on more important things!
01:50
@Danack Levi wants ReflectionType for return types, but we should use it also for args.
@LeviMorrison
Ah, so back to naming things again.
You know what'd solve the naming issue?
CALLING IT A TYPEHINT
ReflectionTypehint
Also, you know we're not the only ones in denial about them being type hints. So are Python users.
Let's just call them... you'll never believe this...
type hints.
Hi. I need some advice on developing an API. I basically am building an API that uses search endpoints of Twitter, Instagram and YouTube together. Calling all 3 in one request is no problem but how would I handle the pagination if each has their own way of going to the next page or set of results?
(wow)
@jeraldo Produce a "ResultSet" object that has some sort of "fetchNext" method, maybe?
So I should try to maybe store the "fetchNext" of each social API on my result set and call these on the next request? Is that what you're saying?
01:56
@jeraldo what have you tried? what's your current code?
@jeraldo Yeah, something like that:
$results = $someService->search("foobar");
foreach ($results as $result) {
    /* do stuff */
}
$results = $results->fetchNext();
But then you'd need to store the info needed for fetching the next, hmm
Still, something along those lines could work I think
@AndreaFaulds Thanks I am getting the idea now.
I'll perhaps do something like "Get new posts" and do something like "Get older posts" to paginate.
I'm assuming this needs to persist across multiple requests?
The first request for page 1, second request for page 2?
Yes.
The user needs to request "initially" for the results. Then after that, the user can use the fetchNext() to retrieve older posts.
Ah. Maybe you could make some sort of object you could serialise that stores the information needed to get the next page (so if a new request is made to their script, they don't need to start all over again to get to the 2nd page)
02:01
Something like "get new posts" to always get the new posts from the social APIs.
Okay. I'll be working on it now. Thanks for the help.
 
2 hours later…
03:41
Hey, I'm dying of a DoS attack right now
I'm desperately trying to block them but all my traffic comes through the CDN. The only thing I get is the equivalent of a forwarded-for header (header name set by me)
RewriteEngine On
RewriteCond %{HTTP_SECRET_IP_HEADER_NAME} ^123.123.123.123$
RewriteRule ^ - [F,L]
04:21
you are trying to block them at the app level ?
04:45
hi all
i want to chnage value of json dynamically in php
i google but not geeting the api related to it
can anyone plz help
05:28
hi php experts , please help me solve this issue stackoverflow.com/questions/27854335/…
05:59
@AustinBurk Why aren't you getting the CDN to block?
They are far better equipped than you.
well well... now that's service
06:15
@PaulCrovella wow
I feel like I missed an opportunity to wonder aloud why nobody had just given me a great big bag of money.
/me crosses his fingers for RC2
06:51
moin
mornings
I'm finally fixing PHP's octal bug
You know, how we ignore invalid digits and don't give a compile error
Tons of tests are broken
what the fuck
looks like dmitry finished return types patch
07:20
@bwoebi Would you mind to add a bug for that? You can assign it to me
Otherwise I'll forget ^^
A google self-driving car just tried to change lanes into me. Apparently my car is equipped with stealth technology.
07:49
Morning folks
@PaulCrovella seriously?
hi guys :)
@zerkms seriously
quick question: is there somewhere a list of the core PHP functions together with their respective return types?
07:51
chase it down, pull a ghost out of the driving seat, beat said ghost up in the middle of the road, hope that someone catches it on video, because want that video to exist ...
ok maybe it's to early in the morning :P
@fusillicode what is the original task?
I need to use the list in the context of a type inference algorithm
oh the algorithm rely on a static analysis
so, no runtime information :(
@fusillicode won't reflection help?
oh, return types
I see now
don't think it exists, but you could generate one from php-doc
08:01
hi all
i need help
i hv json like below :
m trying to set security_block array dynamically like this :
$json->{'jobs'}[0]-->{'job'}-->{'security_block'}=$datasortarray;
@JoeWatkins fine, ty very much I'll check it ;)
will it wokr?
i mean it not working is it right way?
@diva --> what's this?
updating key in php
08:03
$datasortarray=json_encode($json['jobs']['0']['job']['security_block']);
$datasortarray=json_decode($datasortarray);
foreach ($datasortarray as $key=>$row){
// echo $key." ".$row."<br>" ;
if(strcmp($key,"job_payload_hash")==0)
{
$datasortarray->{'job_payload_hash'} = $base64String;
}
}@zerkms
> The PHP manual is still currently hosted on SVN, although it will be migrated to Git in the near future. To checkout the latest English version of the PHP manual:
svn checkout https://svn.php.net/repository/phpdoc/modules/doc-en ./phpdoc-en

You can also check the SVN FAQ on the wiki.
@diva it's not
means?
how to do then?
@diva there is difference between -> and --> and -------------->
wanna update value of key dynamicllay in php
@zerkms ok m not that except can u plz tell me will do it rest part ..i tried googling
but didnt got the proper answer
08:05
@diva I have already told
@zerkms ok , but any way to directly specify the key and chnage value in json?
@diva using -> presumably, not -->
good meurning!
I hate what json has done to the world. It's a serialization format, not a data structure. Not so long ago someone was trying to explain their problem to me and started with "I have json standard xml..."
I had to turn on my heel and walk away to keep from punching myself in the face.
08:16
someone the other day said we should use json as the serialization format in apc "for perf reasons" ... it's not even a very good format ...
good mornigns
mononr
@PaulCrovella, perhaps they where talking about JSONx? "JSONx is an IBM® standard format to represent JSON as XML." www-01.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/SS9H2Y_6.0.0/…
08:23
<json:array name="phoneNumbers">
<json:string>212 555-1111</json:string>
<json:string>212 555-2222</json:string>
</json:array>
@SimonSvensson They weren't, though JSONx makes me want to punch myself in the face as well.
> </json:array>
Anyhow, I've got several objects (Country) with localized names and looking to build a reusable solution with something like $country->getLocalizedShazaam('zh-Hans') to get a another object holding the localised information. I'm guessing I'm not the first one thinking about this, and deduce that there should probably be some form av "standard solution" that plays will with other stuff. Any thoughts?
gods below
I have this one co-worker who seems to always be on the wrong side of he argument. About everything
today he managed to produce the "it was their own fault" line regarding the shooting in Paris
fucking fucktard
Fucking fucktard!
And, good Friday morning, room 11. :)
08:37
@salathe morning :P @JoeWatkins
@SimonSvensson are you just looking for a wrapper around gettext or... ?
@PaulCrovella, I'm not sure that gettext would be enough, one case could be movies, where they have different summarized texts in different languages. I'll store these in a database, and it sounds like too much text to handle in gettext, and hard to update realtime when new movies are added. Even if I had a hook to make gettext query my database, but that doesn't sound far from doing my own getLocalizedShazaam method.
There may also be similar structure of calls for getLocalizedRegionShazaam('FI') to get stuff that depends on region (and not culture) like age ratings and currencies.
@SimonSvensson ah, yeah, localizing content is a different beast entirely. I've only ever seen custom-rolled solutions for that.
I'm currently using Laravel/Eloquent and a Pologlot-package, and it does what I require except it also introduces a lot of magic that requires special treatment, both mentally and when using phpstorm.
oh, look what day it is
08:48
well, we have to work on saturday too (this and next week) , so: f u
@tereško How's the PC fund?
fund is ready, but I will wait till februaryto actually start buying
Why February? Something releasing?
yes, my current project at work
the setup I am looking at ATM looks like this: dateks.lv/…
Oh heh. Fair enough. Any games you're going to buy in particular straight away or just finally play some old ones and mod the hell out of them?
08:56
but it probably will still change
Looks good. Really nice case too.
I am still not happy with the motherboard
and have to do more research on cooling
Are you overclocking it?
that's the intention
Guys over on Overclockers.co.uk know their stuff if you want to ask them too. Overclocking & Cooling Thread
08:59
well, I cannot make a custom loop
@Fabor They used to be quite expensive
@DaveRandom Still kinda are. It's more about customer service with those guys these days.
mornings, btw
It's for a variety of advice @tereško.
and a lot of places don't really ship to latvia (which is why I am trying to assemble it from locally available parts)
09:00
Marndom
@tereško Don't have to buy from there, just ask questions.
@Fabor I spent like 2 week learning about cases.
Yeah, it's worth the investment for a quality case for noise reduction, air through-flow and so on. + purty.
I got a Corsair 750d myself.
fuck case-windows
that requires color-coordination and shit
heh. I just slapped a blue LED in there.
@tereško Just make sure you have nice cable management. :P.
@tereško +1
I have an antec P180B I bought like 10 years ago or something, has housed 4 different hw configs, not anxious to replace it any time soon
oh , and I also will probably need to find a good 1000w power supply, because I want to add later another card for crossfire, but that one is recommend ed to have 300-400w on its own
800w canister won't really do
I always say I will crossfire but never do.
also .. funny thing
when I asked for opinions on what actually I should be looking at at work, everyone said "not amd" .. and online nobody actually gives a fuck
@tereško I used to hold that AMD was for overclockers and Intel was for everyone else, but it's so long since I cared about any of that that I have no idea if that's true any more.
Q: How is the Class::factory(...$args) abomination that returns instance (useful for <5.4) actually called? (it's not Factory pattern)
"factory method pattern"
I thinks that's what you are aiming at
The only thing I do know is that I've build 3 AMD rigs in my life, and 2 of them gave me some major grief, whereas every Intel rig I've ever built worked with no issues. All that is pretty outdated though, I've not built anything at all in years
I am having the same problem
@tereško Yes, that's closer than Factory, thank you, m8.
09:17
I haven't kept up-to-date regarding hardware at all
@tereško They're like the PHP bashers of the world with their "not amd" shit.
oddly enough, the loudest shouter was the same guy which I mentioned previously
46 mins ago, by tereško
today he managed to produce the "it was their own fault" line regarding the shooting in Paris
I generally go with whatever provides the best bang-for-the-buck within the scope of the build.
also never cheap out on the power supply. I had one go tits up and it fucked over not just components in the box, but other devices on the same circuit.
14 mins ago, by tereško
oh , and I also will probably need to find a good 1000w power supply, because I want to add later another card for crossfire, but that one is recommend ed to have 300-400w on its own
Gold 1000w
09:22
platinum would be better .. gold would do in a pinch
Gold is for cheapskates. Diamond-encrusted Platinum.
heh
Plutonium, that's what you want.
Yeah when I update my PC I change the PSU every time not because I need more power but just for safety.
Then you don't need to fork out for the blue LEDs, either.
09:23
@DaveRandom fuck the LEDs
17 mins ago, by DaveRandom
@tereško +1
I don't want to some bright light light shining in the corner of my eye
I'm all about the featureless black box.
hence my choice
09:25
@PeeHaa E_SEEMINGLY_UNRELATED
is that a real site or we managed to DDoS it ?
@tereško Yeh that looks nice, it may be the first case I've seen that's even more featureless than mine (mine has exposed USB/1394/3.5mm jack without opening the door)
Actually, the front USB is useful, would be a pita if I had to open the door for that
Oh they're on the top
@DaveRandom it has those at the top
Yeh I just noticed, looks awesome :-)
Can get_class($object) change during the lifetime of $object?
09:32
@SimonSvensson no
posted on January 09, 2015 by kbironneau

/* by melkor54248 */

@DaveRandom "Gold is for cheapskates" No it isn't monstercables transfer 0s and 1s of the hdmi signal in the prettiest way possible
@tereško @SimonSvensson There is one case, something to do with iterators, but it's a huge edge case and it only happens temporarily during an iteration, I forget the specifics
@PeeHaa Ahh I see, I missed the point :-P
@DaveRandom noob...
@SimonSvensson it's also possible that some extension does it somewhere. But under normal circumstances it won't happen.
user924016
09:34
mornings
ok, lets go with "no" for all sane values of $object
@JoeWatkins You are available?
@PeeHaa for sex, or ??
Actually for a php-src request / question / my birthday present, but now I also want sex
hehe, sure, shoot ... in whatever sense is appropriate ...
09:36
@NikiC You got assigned bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=68775 ...
@JoeWatkins How hard would it be to implement visibility modifiers to class constants?
@tereško I must say I'm not a fan of the single 4TB drive actually, you have a case that will house 8 drives, I'd much rather buy 3x2TB and RAID 5 (will cost a little more but worht it IMO)
And if not that much work are you willing to write it with for me :)
I want to write an rfc, but if I don't get anybody to write it for me it would be pretty much useless :P
I dunno exactly how much work it is but looks possible, I'll have a go at a patch ...
I don't see the point @PeeHaa
Chances are what you really want is a namespace-private enum, namespace-level visibility would be a lot more useful and would probably do what you want in a cleaner way in userland
/cc @JoeWatkins
09:40
@DaveRandom I use class constant for 2 things. 1) to be part of the public api so people can use MyAwsomeClass::MY_AWESOME_CONSTANT and 2) to not be part if the public API meaning I want to have constants in the class for internal use
@DaveRandom @ircmaxell basically said the exact same thing
But for what I use it for (and more people with me) it would work me thinks?
@DaveRandom the idea is to buy one drive and then later set up a proper raid from multiple 4TB's
@DaveRandom WHat do you mean by cleaner in userland?
getting into enums and namespace level visibility seems like overkill if what's needed really is just a private constant
visibility modifiers on classes, new enum type and visibility modifiers on class constants are not mutually exclusive, they are all useful, probably desirable ... but we can start with the simplest, which probably is class constant modifiers
@DaveRandom and the box can house 8 of 3.5'' drives
09:50
@PeeHaa As in, not cluttering up your class with stuff that belong in an enum
@DaveRandom Fun fact: that is already the case :)
I just want to make it saner
@tereško My only issue with that is that's the sort of thing I'd say and then never actually do.
@DaveRandom actually I might neither
I would probably opt to buy later a nice NAS box with RAID
@PeeHaa If you've already put them in an external enum, how would visibility help? (if they're in some other class, any visibility other than public would hide them from the place where you're using them)
@JoeWatkins true
@DaveRandom I am not talking about real fake enums, but fake fake const enums here
:P
09:54
well ... actually ... we'd have to add 24/32 bytes to every class entry, plus a whole hunk of other stuff ... it doesn't look doable without doing nasty things ...
ugggh
@tereško For a reason I cannot explain I don't like this. The only solid technical arguments against it don't actually matter (mostly latency, but over gigabit eth that's not actually relevant)
It's not like you'd be running an OS off it
But I just don't like it, cannot explain why. If it works for you though, knock yourself out.
at the same time, visibility on classes requires that we promote namespaces to an actual thing, we need to know namespace at runtime and currently we cannot easily do that (without comparing and chopping strings) ... so that has an impact too ...
yeah, the hdd would basically contain only one large "downloads" folder
lemme think about it ...
09:57
All I can ask :)
Hello everyone.
Guten tag
morgen
This might be a really stupid question but I got a bit stuck.
If I set a session on login.php
and do session_start(); on index.php, read out the session. it works...

When I close the tab and the browser, the session is not expired or so the "session.cookie_lifetime" is in the php.ini set to 0

What could be the "issue"?

{This is a question of my class mate, and I neither know why it acts like that.}
@MikeM. read
10:10
Thanks for that
going to read it, I was looking at this one atm.: stackoverflow.com/questions/11108476/…
The thing that I am stuck with
@MikeM., what browser? Some browsers, like Chrome, does not expire session-only cookies until all windows are closed.
It's chrome.
The **session.cookie_lifetime** is set to "0"
So the cookie lifetime is also set to 0.
Regarding to: http://php.net/manual/en/function.setcookie.php
If set to 0, or omitted, the cookie will expire at the end of the session (when the browser closes).
So chrome is bitchy about that, that all tabs have to be closed...?
@MikeM., I'm not sure that it's only Chrome that acts in this way. Consider session-only cookies to persist during your browsing session, not just the tab's lifetime.
Even when closing all tabs, windows does not "destroy" the session
when browsers decide to save/restore sessions, they mean it
10:20
Well :)
Ye it's chrome
it's indeed the session restore "feature"
it's in the Chrome://settings -> On startup
consider it a lesson that you never have control of the client side of things
@PaulCrovella I know that, it's just a silly project for college so it's not a big issue. xD Just wanted to know why...
New PHP bug report by me (serious): bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=68777
@AndreaFaulds not sure if serious about "serious"...
@PaulCrovella I am serious
I'm sad that I can't do echo "\a"; and have OS X beep at me
10:41
Imagine you have quite a few objects that are owned by an individual user and you are using repositories (kindly provided by Doctrine). Can you think of any nice way of ensuring that even a deeply nested object, when requested, is owned by the given user? I am currently DI'ing the session to get the relevant User in a Repository base class, and inheriting that functionality in my other repositories and always providing a join against the user... and having to do it for everything winds me up
I have a little question on PHP's language design. What reason does it have that abstract properties are not supported. Is there any logical reason to it, or isn't it implemented because of any technical restrictions?
Would a router have any effect on internet dropouts?
@ThomasDavidPlat If you think PHP was designed you're barking up the wrong tree
:P
But I still think there must be something behind it. Java doesn't implement it neither, but C# does, for example.
I just find it a little confusing that abstract methods are possible which is logical to me, since they drive subclasses to be designed in a certain shape. But imo that also should apply for properties.
I'd appreciate it if anybody could prove me wrong (why it would be a bad thing to have abstract properties in terms of OO design)
ThW
ThW
@ThomasDavidPlat PHP does not have declared properties
10:50
can you explain to me how abstract properties would be different from protected ones ?
ThW
ThW
@tereško not member variables, declared properties
because the abstract methods are methods that are used by the concrete methods in the abstract class
otherwise you would be just defining an interface
@ThomasDavidPlat so ... what is the point of abstract properties ?
what purpose do they serve ?
@tereško Because, I guess, you would be forced to implement these properties (basically a reminder both in-code and by IDE)
in the child class
@tereško well my point is it to force subclasses to implement/override certain properties
10:52
@Jimbo .. to be used WHERE ?
By the thing calling the child class?
@DaveRandom Care to spec me a router? :)
@Jimbo isn't that what protected properties are for ?
@ThomasDavidPlat yeah .. well .. "overriding property" is usually know as "assigning different value"
ThW
ThW
@tereško not if a declared property can have a getter/setter
@tereško Could the same argument then be made for "overriding methods" is usually the same as "assigning different method implementation"?
10:55
@Jimbo *implementing
the whole "abstract properties" concept is deeply retarded
lol
@ThW how do you expect to define a setter without the property? And where would that setter be? In the abstract or the concrete class?
deeply
@tereško I thought in terms of forcing the subclass to override them. If I know that I need to assign a different value that's cool. But what if somebody else wrote a subclass and forgot to assign that specific value.
I actually never came across a situation where I would need to do that. But I was about to answer stackoverflow.com/questions/27857723/… and I wanted to include a paragraph in the answer to explain why it would be deeply retarded to have abstract properties, but I could not come a with an explanation.
ThW
ThW
10:58
@tereško eval.in/private/8469841f92053c and yes using an interface would be better in the most caes, but still you would have the need for a declared property (on the interface)
Of course in that case it'd be dumb to do that, since that whole mess could be prevented by type hinting the specific class. But still my question: Why is it unnecessary to have abstract properties, and how would they be different from abstract methods in terms of design.
Because I also think what @Jimbo said about methods is true.
I think that's the case - someone else forgets to override the value with their own one.. Perhaps just throw an exception if the value is the same as the inherited value though?
(unless you want this)
Well as I said, I've never needed that by myself. But I just wondered why there's a language feature to do it with methods, but none to to that with properties
Emulating that behavior would be rather easy :D
(but ugly)
C#'s abstract properties have to do with forcing implementation of getters and setters. If you want to require something like that in php, make abstract getters and setters. Otherwise I don't really follow what would be applicable.
Anyone ever implemented a message queue in redis?
or used RabbitMQ?
ThW
ThW
11:14
@PaulCrovella Delphi has it, too. And had it before interfaces
@ThW I don't know delphi or its semantics :/ - how does it behave there?
@Fabor used rabbitmq, was happy with it. 10/10 would message queue again.
2
In PhpStorm it detects TODOs in files and lists the files. How can I have it exclude ./vendor?
it doesn't have the option to choose a scope
ThW
ThW
I think C# took the feature from there. In Delphi properties and member variables/fields are different. From the outside an for the API they look the same. But (declared) properties are more like methods. You can overload them, increase the visibility, ...
@PaulCrovella Cool. May I ask what you used it for?
@Fabor pub/sub for event notifications between systems in a massive content processing pipeline / management system
11:24
@ThW, correct, C# compiles String MyProperty {get;set;} into String get_MyProperty() and void set_MyProperty(String value) behind the scenes.
Perhaps that was already known and I misread your last chat entry...
ThW
ThW
I wish PHP had declared properties - I miss them. :-)
@crypticツ It does :-)
I swear I've done it beore
It's definitely in the Todo tab
Choose "Scope Based" at the top of the todo tab/window.
@PaulCrovella Cool cheers
Choose "Scope Based"
@crypticツ Then click '...'
Then create your own scope, I just named it the name of my project, and chose to include all directories recursively apart from .idea, vendor, log etc
weird, in idea I didn't have to do any of that.. the stuff in vendor is all automagically marked as "library home" and excluded from the TODO without bothering with scopes
@crypticツ in phpstorm's Composer settings page is "Add packages as libraries" checked?
@Fabor antirez is advising against using Redis as MQ
@Ocramius Aye. It's seeming like we're going that way too.
RabbitMQ is on the radar atm.
Just trying to see if/how it can batch receive messages.
@Ocramius Quick Q - do you if calling a method on an entity within twig (like {{ entity.getAssociations() }} hits doctrine's lazy loading for the associations?
Or do I have to do this directly in php
11:42
@Jimbo it should hit lazy-loading
how to move cake php from example.com to example.com/ll
@DaveRandom Just found your old recommendation.
hey all . Does anyone know how to check if an iframe is empty in php? I seen you can do this in Javascript but is it possible with php?
@LukeSmith no
hello, any Zend2 developers here? I have a question
11:54
@Patrick so only Javascript?
@developer10 just ask
@LukeSmith php is a server side language... what you could do is check the iframe url yourself with php but that would happen before the user can interact with the page
Alright, I'm trying to create and validate a form as a standalone component, without ZF2 framework. Now, it won't show validation errors below fields unless i put above the form this: $form->isValid() (I saw this in their official docs)
Hi. Can I ask how would I remove the backslash from the URL from a JSON result. I am using stripslashes but not working. The url is like "http:\/\/scontent-a.cdninstagram.com\/hphotos-xfa1\/1972064980_s.mp4". But stripslashes doesnt change a thing.
I thought I need to do below the form:

if($form->isValid())
11:56
@developer10 a non-validated form doesn't (yet) have validation errors :P
@LukeSmith whats wrong with js here? could always use ajax if you need the result in the php part
@Patrick thanks man. i will try, i actually want to go to a 404 page if iframe is empty
@Ocramius So you're saying by that line I'm running the validation (Inputfilter)
@jeraldo json_decode?
11:57
right
@LukeSmith js can do that
@Ocramius And then, I can (below the form) have an IF statement to take actions based on the return (bool) value of the isValid() ?
@Patrick no too well versed in js. how can i do this?
My url is from a JSON result instagram API $data['videos']['standard_resolution']['url']
11:58

JavaScript

Topic: Anything JavaScript, ECMAScript including Node, React, ...
@developer10 yeah. Did you read the tutorial?
@jeraldo did you decode it?
@Patrick thanks dude
@Ocramius Another thing I just remembered. Without that line before the form (so no validation run) I am able to call and get error messages by doing $form->getMessages();
Is that weird of perfectly normal?

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