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7:00 PM
They don't see their descendents' overrides
 
That's Bar monkey patching a new public property onto Foo because it doesn't see the private one, and that's what I was saying should not silently occur. It is really a statement against silently adding undeclared public properties to any object.
If Foo had a readonly baz, and Bar tried to modify baz, I want an error, not silent apathy.
 
It'd error on modification
But not on shadowing.
 
@DaveRandom How you styling so far? :D
 
@DaveRandom is styling shit? Oooooh god
 
Ď̴̡͙͓̻͇͕̱̜̈́̐ͨ͆͋å̷̻̬̼͗̃ͧ̒ͥ͡v̙̠͔̩͖͚̋̌ͮ́̚͜͝e̎͑ͩͭ͏̻̝̦̺̞̞͍̼ ̷͔̲͈̬̬ͣͥͥͯ̽ȟ͎̰̲̻̼͔̽̀̀͞ͅe̦̻̞̳̼̐̊ ̸ͦ̏͐҉͕̙͖̞̖̭̟̺ͅC͉͙͖̠͓̞̋ͦ̀̓ͮ͛ͦS̵̮̜̠̟̥͓̲͍̾̿͛̏͂ͪ̀̚S̶̛͙̱̔ͯ̒́'̶̷͕̦̺̜̗̰̽̌̈́͒̈́̓̔͊sͩͣ̄̎҉̮̳‌​͙̮,̹̥͚̱̟̯̊ ̱͊͗͛͊̌ͪ̓̚w͋́͂͑̓̌͌ͬ͏ͅe̖͇ͫ̋͊͛̀ͦ'̵̞͎̆ͣ̓̈̆͂̀͟r̛ͩ̆̽ͦ̆ͨ͘҉͇̖̬̯̖̮̰͇ͅe̞͈̩̱̮͈̊̓̋̀ͨ̐̍̈͝ ̥̦̜͙ͩͥ́̓̒̿̋d̲̦̒͗̏̓ͤ̋̊̈͜͟o̠͇ͩ̏̄̿ͧ͂͑̕o̡͎ͨ͗̿ͤ̐͠m̵̽ͭͩ͞҉̪̬̣͉̹̗̯͎ê̽̔̈̓ͣ̿́҉͙̭̜̫͙̳̳dͮ̉̾‌​̞̠͙͉̠͂
 
7:08 PM
lol :0
 
Down to -163:
-165
A: Info: Contacted by a spammers (Ispirer Systems) referencing Stack Overflow

Ispirer SQLWaysWe would like to comment on behalf of the company. There are several questions on this website, the possible solution to which can be the use of our tool. Our answers were always deleted by the site administration, despite of the fact that they contained useful information for the SO users. Th...

or -165.
 
Holy crap
In just 6 hours too
 
It's also the 4th highest google result for Ispirer Systems
 
Poor Ispirer... he only tries to survive. Just as the nigerian scammers. — Peter Horvath 4 hours ago
hehe
 
7:19 PM
flagged
 
@AndreaFaulds got readonly yet ?
 
@JoeWatkins Working on it...
Problem: flag magically disappearing
 
@Ocramius It's still an american company so I am more scared about that fact than random 1337 haxzor x
 
got branch ?
 
7:25 PM
I could commit it, but...
I wanna fix this first... argh.
What type is <num> in the AST?
er
sorry, in zend_language_parser
 
@PeeHaa true, true
 
@JoeWatkins So:
variable_modifiers:
        non_empty_member_modifiers              { $$ = $1; }
    |   T_VAR                                   { $$ = ZEND_ACC_PUBLIC; }
    |   T_READONLY non_empty_member_modifiers   { $$ = $2 | ZEND_ACC_READONLY; }
;
That flag, somehow, disappears by the time we're at the AST
I'm wondering if it's integer overflow
 
nah, show me diff of parser ?
 
The C code?
Or the .y?
 
7:29 PM
@PeeHaa I simply gave up on having an untraceable identity on the web: if I want that, then I block port 80, allow only port 443 and only through my TOR proxy whose server was rented with a friend's credit card
 
That's the only bit that matters
the rest is just the token
 
@Ocramius If tor would have been usable I would totally do that. I still like to think I am at least a bit in control
 
/* property attribute */
#define ZEND_ACC_READONLY               0x40000000
See, that value is out of the range of a short.
it's within the range of an int
well, a 32-bit int...
 
the flags field in the AST and property_info is definitely 32-bit
So I think it's the parser
Hmm...
@NikiC, we need you! Or I do, anyway.
 
7:32 PM
still not sure why you need public/protected/private and readonly
simpler to stick it in there ...
 
well, to allow protected readonly
and
uhm
whether it's in there or not, it needs a free bit
 
Overheard a debate in the hallway, one guy was arguing that websites should not deviate from the system-defined default font face, that if the user wants to select a different font they will, and the designers injecting hundreds of different sans serif fonts into the web has made it worse from a usability standpoint, and gives Google even more data about non-consenting website visitors.
The other guy responds with, "Yeah, but Times Roman looks like shit man."
 
@JoeWatkins I thought of a way to get around it
re-use a method-only flag
 
tell me all about it ...
 
... I hate having nuanced discussions with people who can't even entertain ideas that question conventional wisdom. I don't agree with the anti-font dude, but man, what a bummer, he was very articulate and he wasted it on a one-line responder.
 
7:40 PM
oh right yeah ... that'll work ... looking at it it might be simpler to keep it out of PPP anyway ...
 
@Chris That fight has been lost.....even php.net loads it's own fonts.
 
some assumptions are made, I think best not to fuck with those ...
 
@JoeWatkins To keep things simple, even if we do make it imply public, I wouldn't put it in PPP
readonly is an additional modifier, it's not an access type in itself
otherwise that complicates everything
 
on the other hand, implicitly public is simpler than having to engineer protected support ...
 
@JoeWatkins Supporting protected is 3 lines of code more.
Assuming the code I just wrote will work...
 
7:42 PM
that's lots and lots of work ...
:)
 
oh <your mother> me
OK so actually the issue isn't what I thought
wait wait no it's probably me not removing debug code
 
@AndreaFaulds I think you mean 'silly me'
^^
 
Nope
The flag is still magically disappearing, what
 
@AndreaFaulds hm?
 
also, what if I want to write protected readonly
 
7:45 PM
@JoeWatkins I can fix the ordering later
@NikiC What size is the num type in the parser?
 
@AndreaFaulds zend ulong
 
Oh, ok.
 
but AST attrs are uint16_t
 
that doesn't un-ping me
 
7:48 PM
I know. Sorry. Habit with autocomplete
How hard is the RFC process if you don't know C?
 
@Machavity the RFC process has nothing to do with C
it's a social process, not a technical one
now.. how hard is the implementation of your RFC? That entirely depends on your RFC.
 
@AndreaFaulds if you need larger flags for properties, introduce a new ast struct for properties. if you do that, also get rid of the doc comment hack
 
Right
I think my issue isn't what I thought though. it's not flag size... I *thin-
Waiiiiit
uint16_t ... no I'm just stupid
 
@FlorianMargaine That's not entirely true ... no patch with the RFC usually means a very low chance to pass
(which is wrong IMO)
 
7:51 PM
@Narf well, I guess
 
@Narf there have been RFCs without patches?!
 
I found a bug report that I had hopes would fix an issue with preg_replace_callback but it looks stalled. I suspect only a RFC might get it moving again
https://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=64730
 
@salathe yes, but if you mean RFC without patches that made it to voting, that could be a "no" ...
 
Sure enough, yes, the flag doesn't magically disappear now that I made it tiny
 
@Narf :)
 
7:56 PM
ahahaha
if (flags & (ZEND_ACC_READONLY | ZEND_ACC_STATIC)) {
That does not do what I thought it did
YESSSSS
$ sapi/cli/php -r 'class FooBar { readonly public $foo; } $x = new FooBar; $x->foo = 3;'

Fatal error: Cannot access public property FooBar::$foo in Command line code on line 1
:3
It woooorks
It's a horrible hack, kinda, maybe, but it works
$ sapi/cli/php -r 'class FooBar { readonly public $foo; public function __construct() { $this->foo = 7; var_dump($this->foo); } } $x = new FooBar; $x->foo = 3;'
int(7)

Fatal error: Cannot access public property FooBar::$foo in Command line code on line 1
 
sapi/cli/php -r 'class FooBar { readonly public $foo; public function __construct() { $this->foo = 7; var_dump($this->foo); } } $x = new FooBar; var_dump($x->foo); $x->foo = 3;'
?
 
I know how you done that ...
 
@AndreaFaulds did you implement the following? ^
 
user895378
@Danack Ummm ... are you using the RC2 or dev-master?
 
@rdlowrey rc2.
Is an upgrade in my near future?
 
user895378
8:01 PM
@Danack Can you see if the same thing happens with master a.k.a 1.0.x-dev ?
 
@FlorianMargaine That... doesn't work.
Hmm
Yeah, seems I basically made public properties private accidentally
time to debug!!!!
 
user895378
@Danack I believe I had (maybe still have) some wonky logic with regard to how I was storing parent/child responses that might be causing it. I pushed a commit that may fix it but it was a quick shot in the dark and not thorough. Could you let me know if it still occurs with master?
 
@Machavity You probably ought to write down exactly what happens when doing two preg replace callbacks at once.....the results would seem to be highly indeterministic.
@rdlowrey yep will do.
 
user895378
@Danack much appreciated.
 
@Machavity couldn't that case just be solved by doing the regex callbacks in sequence?
 
8:04 PM
diff --git a/Zend/zend_compile.h b/Zend/zend_compile.h
index 089c15f..2bb80cc 100644
--- a/Zend/zend_compile.h
+++ b/Zend/zend_compile.h
@@ -173,8 +173,9 @@ typedef struct _zend_try_catch_element {
 #define ZEND_ACC_PRIVATE	0x400
 #define ZEND_ACC_PPP_MASK  (ZEND_ACC_PUBLIC | ZEND_ACC_PROTECTED | ZEND_ACC_PRIVATE)

-#define ZEND_ACC_CHANGED	0x800
-#define ZEND_ACC_IMPLICIT_PUBLIC	0x1000
+#define ZEND_ACC_READONLY   0x800
+#define ZEND_ACC_CHANGED	0x1000
+#define ZEND_ACC_IMPLICIT_PUBLIC	0x1200
does it look like that ?
 
@JoeWatkins no
I reused a method flag value
 
otherwise it looks like that though, right ?
 
I added a single define
I didn't touch any others
Oh, sorry, didn't look at full diff
No, that's not what I'm doing
static zend_always_inline int zend_verify_property_access(zend_property_info *property_info, zend_class_entry *ce, zend_bool write TSRMLS_DC) /* {{{ */
{
    switch (property_info->flags & ZEND_ACC_PPP_MASK) {
        case ZEND_ACC_PUBLIC:
            /* readonly public properties are writeable with same rules as protected */
            if (UNEXPECTED(property_info->flags & ZEND_ACC_READONLY) && write) {
                goto protected_case;
            }
            return 1;
        case ZEND_ACC_PROTECTED:
 
if I could guess what the patch looked like it would be pretty strange anyway ...
oh yeah, I forgot about writes
isn't that going to shout about a protected property when you write a public readonly ?
 
8:09 PM
@JoeWatkins No, it'll shout about a public
Oops wrong paste
$ sapi/cli/php -r 'class FooBar { readonly public $foo; public function __construct() { $this->foo = 7; var_dump($this->foo); } } $x = new FooBar; var_dump($x->foo); $x->foo = 3;'
int(7)
int(7)

Fatal error: Cannot access public property FooBar::$foo in Command line code on line 1
It works, finally. Want to know what the bug was?
write = (type == BP_VAR_IS || type == BP_VAR_R)
 
oh I thought zend_check_protected output error ... my bad ...
ah
 
I went into UString and checked how I checked for a read used for writing
Unfortunately, I misunderstood the conditional
It should be !(type == BP_VAR_IS || type == BP_VAR_R) of course
What I did in UString was stolen from some other extension... but I don't know how to find that. :P
 
Does public readonly $foo; also work?
 
So yeah, this prevents referencing a readonly.
@FlorianMargaine No. readonly is a keyword
 
Yeah sorry, I meant changing the order of public and readonly
 
8:13 PM
@NikiC By the way, is this being a fatal error (accessing a property which you don't have permission for) something that could be changed by Exceptions in the Engine, or not?
 
user895378
@AndreaFaulds this is just what I was hoping for :)
 
@rdlowrey Yep, it still seems to be occurring on dev-master 86edc47
seemed to be exactly the same number of requests that got through before dying on php5.6 in two runs...Is there any useful debugging I can do?
 
/me sleeps
 
user895378
@Danack pfffffffft okay. I'm not sure ... Something in this commit is the cause as it's the only thing that changed since rc1.
 
user895378
@JoeWatkins night
 
8:16 PM
For some bedtime reading :p
It's essentially what you did though
I just handled writing by adding an extra flag to _quick
 
@Andrea why no static?
 
@FlorianMargaine Implementation problems
Basically, I don't know when a static access is for read or for write
 
user895378
@Danack It's something stupid having to do with not clearing memory from a request/response or something with the "request/original request" stuff.
 
It all goes to the same function
Not trivial to fix, either
 
8:19 PM
You didn't answer wrt the order
 
@rdlowrey I wasn't using RC1 before - the last one I was using was beta1.
 
The order? What, why is it only readonly public and not public readonly?
 
Same as php handles order for static and visibility modifier, it should accept both
Yeah
 
user895378
@Danack Oh, could you see if it happens with rc1 then?
 
Yeah...I'll search through the versions.
 
user895378
8:20 PM
And be my own personal git bisect guinea pig :)
 
@FlorianMargaine I just took the most convenient way to implement it, it's easy to fix :)
 
Cool
Good night
 
Night
 
user895378
@FlorianMargaine later
 
Hello there, Can some one help me to call a web service using php which is prepared in cold fusion? I am trying from last 3-4 hours but failed.
 
8:24 PM
That is still an actual thing? wow
 
I suggest just explaining your problem
It may not be Coldfusion-specific
(away, eating)
 
@AndreaFaulds enjoy
 
Webservice is working with cf request and soap UI.
 
@AndreaFaulds I'd say it can be changed
 
8:28 PM
Why the fucking hell does this set of requirements:
"require": {
        "php": ">=5.3.2",
        "aws/aws-sdk-php": "~2.6.0",
        "composer/composer": "dev-master#d79f2b0fd33ee9b89f3d9f1969f43dc3d570a33a",
        "composer/satis": "dev-master#ab05ca3a1fbb93f335fbbd0cc3b7ca1ab5d9c0a9",
        "danack/artaxservicebuilder": "dev-master as 0.3.0",
        "danack/githubartaxservice": "dev-master as 0.3.0",
        "danack/danack-code": ">=2.4.4",
        "danack/console": "~2.6.0",
        "Danack/auryn": ">=0.13.0",
        "amphp/artax": "1.0.0-beta2 as v1.0.0-rc2"
Need to download:
Writing /root/.composer/cache/repo/https---packagist.org/provider-bibumathew$product-community-edition.json into cache
Downloading packagist.org/p/magento/module-tax-import-export$3befb0dcdacfa023167ed69f8c66597856c513e45bf81f5debd90d88bfd2cb60.json
Fatal error: Allowed memory size of 536870912 bytes exhausted (tried to allocate 32 bytes) in phar:///home/intahwebz/intahwebz/lib/composer/composer.phar/src/Composer/Depende‌​ncyResolver/RuleSetGenerator.php on line 123
blah - wrong directory....point still stands.
 
user895378
@Danack Because composer?
 
yep.
user image
8
 
user895378
I seriously doubt that what composer is doing really requires that much memory or processing power. It has to be possible to optimize that code.
 
@rdlowrey Agree.
 
user895378
I have observed over the past few years PHP devs frequently blaming the language for bad performance when their own slow code is the real problem.
 
8:40 PM
So, two hours of ANTLR later I'm starting to really appreciate Bison.
 
disagree. look at SAT solvers in general
 
user895378
The PHP language has consistently surprised me by how performant it really can be.
 
it's a non-trivial problem
wish nils had recorded his unconf talk about it :-(
 
user895378
I'm not saying the problem is trivial. Just that it shouldn't require 100 megabytes of memory to solve.
 
@Ocramius It's a non-trivial (euphemism) problem in the general case, but as far as I know SAT solvers can be very fast for reasonable input
 
8:42 PM
@NikiC it's still only O(1) overhead that you can remove
like function calls and indirection layers
 
@Ocramius The problem is that it's pulling in far too much data. It's considering forks that I haven't listed in my composer.json as possible solutions. Which is not right.
 
@Danack is it? I thought that was fixed D:
 
Quick question for a quick answer: what's in a .phar file?
 
@FlorianMargaine zipped stuff
 
@Ocramius It's one of a) Composer tries to solve an unnecessarily large SAT problem or b) the SAT solver is implemented badly.
 
8:44 PM
@rdlowrey their code == over-engineer all the things
 
I don't see how it can possibly be something else.
 
user895378
@Narf yupppppppp
 
user895378
4 hours ago, by rdlowrey
One unfortunate consequence of the rise of FIG and the cult of symfony is that people write perf-sensitive code with no thought to performance. So you get a lot of perfectly abstracted OO code that's really slow ... (this opinion is the result of personal observation).
 
@NikiC well, I'm not able to fix it myself anyway
I hardly understood what it does in first place when nils explained it to me
 
Too bad the simpler stuff is mostly low quality :/
 
user895378
8:46 PM
Performance never matters ... until it does.
 
@rdlowrey Agreed
 
user895378
And when you reach that point you either have to rewrite everything or you've planned for this eventuality ahead of time and only have to rewrite some things.
 
user895378
Good dev is just hard. And it's really time consuming. Premature optimization is evil but you really need to ABO: always be optimizing.
 
I'd just move to CQRS <_<
/me hides before being bashed
 
user895378
Makes sense. But that's not feasible for something like composer.
 
user895378
8:54 PM
Every processing problem is not a distributed processing problem.
 
No, of course, though I don't think composer update needs a speedup
but maybe I am just lucky :P
 
Hey guys =]
Morning
 
user895378
@Ocramius I haven't ever actually run into any issues where composer was woefully slow myself. People seem to complain about it though ...
 
well, I run composer update rarely
 
user895378
@RonniSkansing morning
 
8:58 PM
actually, the build system runs it for me :P
so I don't really care as long as it's not me waiting
 
I don't know about a speedup, but if it can't fit itself into 500mb then this "memory is cheap" thing has gone too far.
2
 
500Mb is not much
 
@rdlowrey agree and disagree at the same time
 
firefox reports 4Gb atm:
 
user895378
@Ocramius lol
 
@SecondRikudo yeah, I didn't find that one :(
was looking for it :P
 
I think writing abstracted oo code that's really slow is not a problem at all (and should be encouraged). However, it should be swappable for something that's not so hungry without much issue (hence losing flexibility for the extra performance)
 
@ircmaxell no need to bash Hungarians here about performance
 
harhar
 
user895378
@ircmaxell I agree in the vast majority of scenarious, but everything is a case-by-case basis. Every project has its own set of criteria.
 
user895378
9:06 PM
Computing resources are always cheaper than human resources, though.
 
@Ocramius That's every fricking day for me. I have the worst luck with Firefox, but I feel awkward when I try to use something else.
 
@rdlowrey which is why I say your abstraction should be sufficient to swap out the heavy component for a much lighter. And in Symfony's case I don't think that's the case
hence the "agree" and "disagree" parts :-D
 
user895378
@Ocramius FWIW that happens to me in chrome too ... although it's usually the supremely leaky SO chat tab hogging all the memory.
 
I just stopped caring: I haz money, I buy ram.
I know it looks a bit awful if not outright consumerist-aligned, but that's just how it works and I don't really care anymore: fixing performance has so many pitfalls that it's just not worth doing it
(for MY use-cases)
If I worked for performance, I'd be trying to get into video-games, not into building enterprise application backends
 
Morning
 
9:12 PM
@rdlowrey Yeh and then eventually the SO chat tab bails and takes a seemingly random collection of other tabs with it, with no obvious pattern (I used to think it was tabs opened by link clicks in here but I no longer think it is)
 
user895378
@Ocramius So why bother with HHVM, then :)
 
@Ocramius Now I see why every ORM is slow. :P Just kidding, of course
 
user895378
So many PHP devs say "perf doesn't matter" but then get weak in the knees about HHVM :)
 
blushes
 
@rdlowrey the point is that it tackles performance via abstractions :P
JIT is just abstracted away, invisible, SWOOOOOSH!
that's the point :P
it's "not in my way"
 
9:14 PM
enterprise has money for both huge servers and high-end desktops anyway
 
Speaking of Symfony, is there a popular framework left that's not over-engineered and just works?
 
@CSᵠ yes, but you can't pay for latency :)
 
@Ocramius until it's not, and then woah...
@Narf no
 
@ircmaxell but I want it abstracted away, heh :)
 
@Narf hehe tell me if you see it =]
 
9:15 PM
@webarto I'm gonna go with "free"
wikka wikka
 
I shouldn't need to pass my code through a code-generator-cruncher to inline everything and have broken stack traces (for example)
 
Well, shit. We're looking to switch away from Yii at work :/
 
@Narf Silex/Slim?
 
@Ocramius well, JITs are even less predictable than AOT compilers in terms of reliable performance gains. So actually that's working against you
 
@Ocramius Excluding the micro ones ... :)
 
9:16 PM
@ircmaxell yes, it's not predictable, but I just want to profile the end-result :)
 
eih
 
@Narf I work with/develop the most "bloated" one, FWIW :P
 
I just want iterator abstractions to be optimized.
Then I'd be happy.
 
user895378
Silex is brutally slow. I never understand the "micro" tag associated with it ...
 
@Narf How about going with libraries?
 
9:18 PM
@Ocramius performance is understood usually after the systems are running, they first need to be runiing, cheap is better, dev making faster is better than dev doing "better" (what is this better anyway) <- strange management-dev loop
 
If we could inline iterators... I'd be very happy ^^
 
user895378
@LeviMorrison man that would be great
 
@Leri If it was up to me, I'd do that. But most of the team is used to a full-stack framework that provides everything for them ... and there's this idiot manager who just wouldn't accept "we'll use a bunch of libs".
 
@LeviMorrison I'm working on inlining with Recki... but polymorphism is going to prevent what you want
 
@ircmaxell It can still be done in many cases.
 
9:21 PM
@rdlowrey it's micro only from the consumer PoV. I wrote a "micro" framework that loads 160 classes on bootstrap :-)
 
You can check the current type of the iterator and use a type guard against it.
 
@Narf Hmm... Using libs has a lot of advantages over traditional full-stack frameworks. And the fact that your whole project is not bound to a single provider is a huge one that should be really decisive.
2
 
Let's be real: what are the chances that during a foreach that the inheritance hierarchy of the given iterator will change?
It may even be impossible.
 
@Narf what kind of work do you do? do you work on one or a few big apps or do you create cheap websites for customers?
If it's the first, you should really use libs and tailor your app to your requirements
 
@Ocramius faints
 
9:26 PM
@Leri @Patrick As I said, that's what I would do ... I just don't have the power to make that decision alone.
 
@LeviMorrison well, the abstraction was 3 classes :D
 
@LeviMorrison First step to inlining iterators: Inlining. And first step to inlining is likely a JIT ^^
 
Inlining certainly isn't the easiest optimization ^^
 
user895378
Hmmm ... I never realized that you could list($a, $b, $c) = $anyObjThatImplementsArrayAccess;
 
I don't care about the math-type optimizations.
If I cared about those I definitely wouldn't be using PHP.
 
9:28 PM
@rdlowrey woah, you can? D:
 
user895378
@Ocramius yeah just tested it out.
 
But unwrapping abstractions is an optimization I would care about.
 
@Ocramius You can, in first approximation. (Meaning that it won't work with TMP_VARs before PHP 7 - but you're unlikely to run into that.)
 
@rdlowrey On multiple versions?
 
9:29 PM
@Narf I'll never understand why some bosses force their developer like this. Developer or team that works on project should be free to choose how they'll do project.
 
user895378
hold on, I'll codepad it and see
 
@Leri Yeah, this one has some C++ experience and thinks he knows everything even if the last time he coded something was 6 years ago. He told a colleague not to use sprintf() because it would result in an overflow ... in PHP.
 
user895378
@LeviMorrison and @Ocramius: yep, works since 5.0.0 3v4l.org/8Tpf8
 
@rdlowrey kewl!
 
user895378
I assume extract() works as well.
 
user895378
9:33 PM
This is helpful for people who don't want to use an array to represent a response in my server because they want to have object-oriented babies :)
 
@rdlowrey Um, why would you assume that?
 
@Narf Let me guess, he's one of the guys who made a single project and keeps advertising himself with that. :-)
 
user895378
I would expect that if list() worked then extract() would work. Is that a strange logical leap?
 
user895378
I will test it either way, but I would expect those to go hand in hand.
 
@rdlowrey yes, it's a strange logical leap
In particularly because list() is based on offset lookups (what ArrayAccess does) and extract() isn't
 
user895378
9:35 PM
Hmm ... I always thought extract() was a language construct and not a function. I guess it's not.
 
@rdlowrey Array fits fine in OO model, imho.
 
@LeviMorrison not really possible AOT
 
@rdlowrey Even if it were a language construct it would not and could not support ArrayAccessible objects ^^
@ircmaxell Why not? Standard devirtualization, right?
 
@Leri No, he's not really incompetent. Most of the time he knows what he's talking about, but is just bossy and micro-manages everything.
 
9:37 PM
@NikiC can you show me code I should be able to do that with?
 
@NikiC Great, please do change it if possible, then.
 
function foo(Traversable $foo) {
    foreach ($foo as $value) {}
}
^^ I can't do that at compile time
 
@Narf Well, not really awful situation then. If you can give him information correctly he'd listen, I guess.
 
yes, that's not a case you would devirtualize, unless you have additional information by inlining foo
 
@NikiC AHHHH, I now see what you mean, cool
 
9:38 PM
commonly you will actually know what $foo is. And even if you don't know you can make an educated guess and guard against it
 
"guard" isn't something I normally want to do AOT. I could do a jump table (if there are 3 possibilities for example), but a guard, eih...
 
E.g. if the function sig was function foo(SomeParticularIterator $foo) then it would make sense to generate code like if ($foo instanceof SomeParticularIterator) { efficient inlined code } else { generic code }
 
@Leri He's trying very hard, I'll give him that.
 
yeah, so not a guard per-say (in terms of "bailout")
 
9:40 PM
@ircmaxell I never meant AoT ^^
 
20 mins ago, by ircmaxell
@LeviMorrison I'm working on inlining with Recki... but polymorphism is going to prevent what you want
when I say "prevent what you want" I meant AOT
 
Oh, I see.
 
user895378
I've also never seen compact() until today.
 
congrats!
 
user895378
Who thought all these magical array-symbol-table varname things were a good idea?
 
9:42 PM
@ircmaxell yeah sorry, didn't mean bailout there
 
user895378
Array things like current(), next(), end(), reset() etc can also take a walk as far as I'm concerned.
 
@NikiC fair enough, that's what happens when I try to infer without really understanding (or taking the time to think)
 
@rdlowrey It's like the opposite of extract, it makes sense
 
@rdlowrey I guess you haven't dived in Laravel's code :)
 
I wonder how hard it would be to reimplement PHP from scratch if you ignored basically all of the functions and classes provided by core. Just a boring, common interpreter.
 
9:45 PM
public function renameColumn($from, $to)
{
return $this->addCommand('renameColumn', compact('from', 'to'));
}
that's a very common thing in there
 
user895378
@LeviMorrison It would probably be awesome to use.
 
@Narf ARGH
stop hurting my eyes!
 
user895378
Oct 13 at 16:18, by rdlowrey
@DaveRandom It hurts us precious.
 
user895378
^ appropriate
 
Hey, I can't take all the pain, some of it has to be offloaded :P
 
user895378
9:57 PM
@NikiC Hey does AST acceptance for master mean PHP7 will do the following for sure?
 
user895378
$result = yield something();
 
user895378
(without the need for parens)
 
user895378
?
 

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