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16:00
@DanLugg so, you're writing ^Z on the whiteboard? :-P
@bwoebi I think you italics-lock is stuck
@PeeHaa that still didn't answer my question.
@lowflyingrocks
I mention every near earth object that passes within 0.2AU of Earth. @tomtaylor made me.
2.9k tweets, 6.4k followers, following 4 users
@PeeHaa that should not be deleted
16:06
I hate to repeat myself every time bob. You are free to do whatever you want
wow. yum update took like 30 minutes.
@Bartek Oh god that's rolled it's own regex....Try this instead: github.com/nikic/FastRoute
16:58
@ircmaxell I've always liked "experience is learning from you mistake, wisdom is learning from other peoples". forget who said it.
Always this drama on internals
@NikiC I read this morning, and haven't since
@ircmaxell I read the first mail and scrolled down once
anything fun?
Then decided that this was tl;dr
17:11
Just want to point out that Zeev has been involved in all the drama lately.
And Pierre ;)
The usual suspects, so to say
@PeeHaa you lost access to torrentz.eu?
@Fabien everyone has I think.
@LeviMorrison nice reply to Zeev
Lame :(
user924016
17:21
I want Google Glass with corrective vision glasses... =]
@RonniSkansing you can get it
user924016
take my money! =] Know where to order ?
user924016
I can not yet =/
user924016
Last couple of days I have been dreaming about G glass with corrective lens and WebRTC
in the US, you can buy today
user924016
17:27
oh =] thought it was still in some closed beta phase. Sounds great!
$1500 isn't it?
user924016
Nothing wrong in getting someone to buy it and send it outside US is there?
user924016
(other then extra taxes for me)
No. We have one at my office ronnie
user924016
I am going to look into this. Thanks guys
17:36
I got a massive headache ...
@JoeWatkins feel better man
17:51
@bwoebi By the way, you should look at the domain of that guys email. He's complaining about eyes hurting to us with that website? lol
If someone had told me eleven months ago that there were chat rooms on this thing, I may have posted enough to get twenty points a long time ago. :-)
18:13
@LeviMorrison does it look so bad? Except that it's in Russian?
18:26
Pink and purple? Bright?
woot!
@Danack you mean the component is missing the LICENSE file?
@Ocramius I guess - there is a reference to the license in the readme, but it doesn't include the required bits.
@Danack PR :)
I'll merge ASAP, but the component will be updated only once the subtree split is updated
I don't think I care - I've forked zend/code as I need the bits that aren't going to be merged until zf3, and added the appropriate text back in to remain in compliance with the license, so was just letting you know.
18:36
@Danack ok, thanks :)
I wonder, what I should talk about in the internal lecture that we are going to have at work this friday
phpng
... or Laravel.
Laravel is absolutely a winner here, everyone loves Laravel!
18:52
Yep, people find it facadenating.
19:05
@DanLugg i do this a considerable amount.
Googling to find some answer on a question. Well. First result is the question itself and I don't find anything else useful... :x
@Danack neat!
I was just having a nostalgia discussion, and recall that I may have come up with Minecraft before there was Minecraft.
@Ocramius thanks - I'm finding a disturbing number of issues in the underlying ImageMagick library. They don't seem to test for using uninitialised memory.....
Or see why that is bad.
Quick question.....
19:19
@Danack pffft, it's just memory. It'll be ok.
I seee stuff like <169> in html and one on machine it is converted to copyright sign and on other it is ?
What is that ^ called
@cspray Exactly! There's bound to be some data to use there, it's not as if the read is going to fail!
@Danack Well, I have memory...ImageMagick wants to use memory... Profit?
I was using MapEd to make Half-Life levels and was working on a deathmatch level. It was really simple; octagonal arena or something. Anyway, the key was, I had made the outer metal shapes indestructable, but filled it (like a cup) with dirt, broke the shapes into pieces, and set the destructable flag on it all.
19:22
@PeeHaa An entity? Your question isn't exactly clear.
It is but it is in code as <entitycode> instead of &entiycode;
Do you load the groups from the db and then load their permissions configs in ACL?
@PeeHaa Hmm down for me. Through your fw.
@Fabien fw?
@Danack Aaaaaaaah nvm I am stupid some crappy text editor installed on the server is stupid
19:51
Lol this guy says mysql is a bad habit because if hacker gets access to php he can hack it, and also sql inject. Then I said even if the data structure was xml, it would have happen. And then he said "PHP is bad habit too then" xD
Hello guys
just wondering anyone used google api for inserting contacts into a google group? using the Zend framework?
Was awesome having @krakjoe on @3DevsAndAMaybe podcast tonight, brilliant hearing about #pthreads and all things PHP.
I had nice evening, talking, and not shouting ... or arguing ...
@JoeWatkins That must be a pleasant change.
@JoeWatkins cool, how did todays events go over?
yeah we talked about it, I don't think anyone outside of internals understands any objection really, the community at large received information they needed ...
there looks to be good support for the blog, that's positive, I think I left it there ... but dunno was nattering for about 2 hours ...
20:02
:-)
I have question about chaining ...
<?php
/*
function ($one, $two) {
	if ($one == 0) {
		return 0;
	} else if ($two == 1) {
		return 1;
	} else return 2;
}
*/
$function = new Function($context, [JIT_TYPE_INT, JIT_TYPE_INT], JIT_TYPE_INT);
$function->branch()
	->if(new Instruction\Equals($op1, $zero))
		->then(new Instruction\Return($zero))
	->elseif(new Instruction\Equals($op1, $one))
		->then(new Instruction\Return($one))
	->else(new Instruction\Return($two));
how acceptable would that be ?
I don't care for it, but I can understand it. I'd rather see then be a parameter to if()
or can you think of pseudo that isn't horrible that does the same thing ... I'm still just playing, but it wold be kinda cool to have the ability to build code like that I think, useful even, if it can be made to make some sense ... currently it doesn't make much sense to anyone without experience of these things ...
@PeeHaa You setup a FW for me to access that site :) a while ago
@Fabien oooooow. Totally forgot I had that one running too. I will look into it tonight / tomorrow
20:09
Awesome cheers :)
<?php
/*
function ($one, $two) {
	if ($one == 0) {
		return 0;
	} else if ($two == 1) {
		return 1;
	} else return 2;
}
*/
$function = new Function($context, [JIT_TYPE_INT, JIT_TYPE_INT], JIT_TYPE_INT);
$function->branch()
	->if(new Instruction\Equals($op1, $zero), new Instruction\Return($zero))
	->elseif(new Instruction\Equals($op1, $one), new Instruction\Return($one))
	->else(new Instruction\Return($two));

$function(0, 1);
so like that ?
that's my take on it
what words can be used instead of those reserved ones ?
ah crap function is reserved too
@zerkms wow.. i clearly don't think deeply enough about the context of my variables O_O
@JoeWatkins I use Function_ etc
20:19
ah yeah that'll do .... although the pattern doesn't really fit what it required ...
I can't really work out what an oo api would look like, it's there ... but guess it's easy to end up with llvm's api if you don't think carefully about it ...
I dunno what I'm trying to do really, fun game tho ...
> If the array argument contains string keys then the returned array will contain string keys if and only if exactly one array is passed. If more than one argument is passed then the returned array always has integer keys.
screw you PHP
@NikiC we really need to write our AST :-)
@ircmaxell sounds like array_map? … you always can use array_combine() at the end...
ok guys
I need advice regarding an in-house lecture on friday: should I go with "OOP principles and application patterns" or "what you have missed since php 5.3"
Are you still on php 5.3?
nope, we are on 5.5 since previous week
20:28
hmmm...
that's a tough one
what do you think will be more important for them to hear?
@tereško well, then do the latter this time and the former on the next occasion.
any ideas guys?
@bwoebi thing is: I am not certain that there are all that much from php 5.3+ that they will actually find useful
@tereško I have no idea what you're doing… but there are traits, $this use in Closures...
also generators and ::class
and some other things I cannot recall
20:33
I personally never found any use for ::class.
I use it wherever I'm in need of any kind of reflection/mocking
and function/literal dereference.
and for config mapping
it makes it soo much easier to spot mistakes :D
@bwoebi $foo = $DIcontainer->create(\Foo\Bar::class);
you people like talking to yourselves, don't you
ThW
ThW
20:35
@bwoebi $this->getMockBuilder(LocalName::class)->...
@tereško wiki.php.net/rfc#php_55 have fun…
@ircmaxell as if you are not using this chat as "sounding board"
@tereško that wasn't the reference ;-)
then I missed it completely
20:35
@tereško Why not just "\Foo\Bar" ?
@tereško tiny avatar people
@bwoebi because it wont work .. at least not as you expect it
ah?
I honestly don't know what '\B' will give
it'll give you \B.
20:38
no, to get that you need \\B
just when you would have double backslashes and quotes, it'll be an issue.
no, that's still fine in a single quote string.
php > echo '\B';
\B
hmm ...
now I feel dumb
ThW
ThW
But Foo::class can resolve a local name (defined with use) to the full, absolute name.
Also, wtf 3v4l.org/AOYoK ?!? Go home HHVM. You are drunk.
@ThW that, yeah \\ afk
20:40
@bwoebi Because if you have a typo in there it can't be detected until you run the code. With Foo\Bar::class every editor can know that it should match a classname. Also when you use refactoring tools to change class names, every instance of the name can be changed at once, rather than having to search for the string by hand.
> Output for hhvm-3.0.1
Warning: unlink(/run/hhvm/hhbc.sq3): No such file or directory in Command line code on line 1
could not allocate 220200959 bytes for translation cache
@tereško wtf
@tereško rotfl
That's pretty funny.
220MB to compile an echo statement!!!
20:44
is that a repeatable bug ?
And the obligitory tweet:
Go home HHVM, you drunk: http://3v4l.org/AOYoK#vhhvm-301 220mb to compile an echo statement? :-P
@ircmaxell if
user924016
May 12 at 13:48, by Alma Do
HHVM sucks ..
@ircmaxell the error is gone
20:45
[magic.gif]
and tweet deleted :-)
but the nugget, which it exposed is fun
yeah, I'm curious
can we write to it ?
=]
dude, don't kill 3v4l. We like that site :-)
20:52
but seriously .. why the hell calling a var_dump() caused an error message regarding deletion of an sqlite based cache ?! (at least that how I read it)
allo, allo
holy crap. Zeev. Really?
@ircmaxell can you elaborate for us mere mortals ?
and isn't that some source being leaked (like from a different 3v4l post)?
user924016
yeep =]
@tereško No... Only if e.g. 'B\\', that will give B\
If one, \ will escape ' and that's error.
hmm..
Oppression FTW.
I did not know this tiny C/C++ detail for a long time: stackoverflow.com/a/693794/538216
In PHP 5.4 how can I get namespace only? E.g class: lib\front\controllers\Admin, i need to get lib\front\controllers ?
From where? Do you have the actual object, or just a string or ..?
21:10
i have both if i need
i get that string from get_class()
@LeviMorrison interesting...
@LeviMorrison Neat sauce.
Recently I started contributing to Slurm for work and they use the void 'parameter' so I looked it up.
I meant to share but I got busy and forgot.
Remembered to post it when reviewing the patch just now.
@LeviMorrison Slurm-tastic
Actually, yes.
I believe that is exactly where they got their name (they made a phrase out of it that actually makes sense).
21:15
Oh neat: Simple Linux Utility for Resource Management
@DanLugg oh noes
I bet this is a super complex tool
lol, I feel the same way about stuff that starts with "ez". Although rather than being complex, it's normally just fucking terrible.
@NikiC I can say that compared to PBS/Torque, it actually is pretty simple.
I know the feeling when people claim 'Simple' though ^^
cough soap cough
So is there a way to get the namespace without imploding '\' ?
21:18
@BenBeri I believe you just have to parse the string e.g. like this and that they aren't any built in methods.
@BenBeri You can also use (new ReflectionObject($obj))->getNamespaceName()
Thanks guys @Danack worked.
@Danack uhhhh
uh-oh
(uhhhh directed at using mbstring for that)
21:22
It's to be safe - xkcd.com/463
@Danack :D
Also - technically there is no character restriction on class names is there - 3v4l.org/LHmcT
@Danack IIRC the bits that force the engine into unicode mode have to be enabled, but that's it.
Obviously I might want to punish someone who actually does that - but still.
@NikiC Soap is simple, it's just not a great model.
21:26
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha no
@DanLugg The hell have you been smoking.
Now mind you, that's a comedy piece from nearly a decade ago, but SOAP is still a monstrosity. It's only through IDE level tooling that makes it usable ... in languages that aren't PHP.
*shrug* Perhaps I should have clarified; the principal behind, and even some of the implementation detail of SOAP is simple.
Well, if you boil it down to fancypants XML RPC, sure, that's not complex.
It's just that everyone did it so wrong...
@Charles Well, yes; generation is typically a tool. I'm not saying that manual endpoint writing is the highlight of my day.
@ircmaxell Yea, I figured that was pointed directly at me ;-)
1 message moved to bin
21:33
@NikiC Related, I'm also tempted to slip this into a repo somewhere sometime - 3v4l.org/64vNk
night room
@Charles When it's not enabled, it treats everything in a class name as just a bunch of bytes, so everything that doesn't match a reserved keyword is allowed...
@Danack Noted.
@Danack 3v4l.org/MNTbt What is it? A zero-width modifier?
21:38
@Danack Yes - but even then \ is still an ascii character ^^
Yeah I guess so. And using both strpos and substr would give the desired result, even if the counting was bytes and not chars.
mb_ still sounds cooler.
@ircmaxell was removed :(
@JoeWatkins well, now it's on him
well how is that okay, how come it's not okay for it to be on me to publish but it's okay for him to ignore the consensus that we shouldn't remove it and do it anyway ... it's not fucking zend.com ...
@JoeWatkins bingo.
21:44
we just look like dicks now, he'll probably remove it from the archive too ...
did you see this thread: news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7807266 ?
and he only removed it from the homepage. It's still in the archive
yeah but he said on mailing list he thinks it should be deleted ... and seems to be doing what he wants ...
I did yeah ...
22:01
@Tyrael I dunno what made you think that was directed at you ... :s
@ircmaxell christ.
In retrospect publishing it but not sticking it on the homepage would give us something to link to but not be on the homepage.
Any merit in that?
@LeviMorrison no, the situation is un-salvagable in my view, it doesn't matter what we decide is best if he can come in and do whatever, and he clearly can ...
He's arrogant yet nobody will call him out on it.
I gave up.
22:15
Only people without an interest in making sure that they're listened to in the future would dare.
I've probably given up on all internals stuff, honestly.
I'll keep doing web and doc stuff.
Nobody will seriously even look at my bugfix PRs and when I mail the list about it nobody responds.
This isn't the first time this has happened, either.
github.com/php/php-src/commit/… => That took something like 5 hours (or more?) to debug :(
And honestly I'm tired of Pierre and Zeev.
I really wish that a fork would be viable sometimes. Then I look at the code and my eyes glaze over and realize that I wouldn't be resourceful enough to even dare help.
22:29
:(
we suck ...
@LeviMorrison you're not the only one…
there's really not much point in doing anything, since it can apparently be reversed unchallenged ....
#php .... #shambolic, in the extreme ....
I was wanting to learn C to contribute to PHP but after lurking on internals for the past year or so there's no way I'm going to do that. I honestly don't know how you guys in here have gotten in the stuff that you have.
C is easy, it's the macros that kill my comprehension...
Yea, but I need some direction to learn a language
If there's something that I'm learning a language for I have no problems...I can't learn it just to learn it (and actually be productive with it)
And so far contributing to PHP was my purpose with C...haven't come across another one yet
22:37
bugs.php.net/random <- pick a bug, any bug ...
or pick a subject bugs.php.net/stats.php
you shouldn't be put off ... any interaction I have with any internals developer away from internals is brilliant ... the people in other words, great ...
you can ignore internals completely and fix bugs, most of us usually are doing that ... occasionally we go mad and think it's time for a new idea ... then this sort of stuff happens and everything looks all scary ... but this is one day out of 60 ... more lately ...
@cspray learn C++
I don't know how to engage internals, so I don't. even when the whole day is spent talking about my actions ...
because what would be the point ...
@Charles there's no technical barrier to hitting the fork button, there's no lack of knowledge ... don't think it would be good, there's not much point in me putting so much spare time into php if then I do something that might damage it because I'm not getting my own way ...
@JoeWatkins Yes, this is all true...
On top of a fork being useless due to the adoption problem.
well lets say I succeeded, I tend to, if I got what I was aiming for I would only do damage ....
so, silly aim
also the thought that you should have to fork code because of humans is ..... terrible ....
/me is out, lata all
laters
22:49
o.O Zeev removed it from the homepage, but kept it in the archives?
@salathe revert it!
Why do people always have problems with controversial things?
@JoeWatkins Why? Aren't humans the reason we write code in the first place?
@salathe That was intentional on his part.
@LeviMorrison Yes... when stuck for ideas... do the one thing no-one suggested. :D
@salathe yeah, the golden middle between all the ideas
22:56
I think he still wants it to exist, just not on the homepage.
And it sounds like he still wants it cleaned up.
G'night, chaps :)
If anyone wants to clean it up, here's a draft I posted in IRC: irccloud.com/pastebin/1j9vzB6H
Oh hey, @LeviMorrison whatever happened with the return type RFC?
user924016
23:13
cute cat
23:37
Good nooning
Howdy
How goes?
hola
It goes. Enjoying a brew.
How about you?
No brew left. But it also goes.
Haven't seen you around in awhile.
23:41
Been super busy
I hear that, sir.
It is also starting to get kinda nice outside so my wife and I have been doing outdoor things while we can take advantage of it
Nice, go anywhere neat?
Mostly just hiking out through the woods. We have some pretty extensive public trails out behind our place

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