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11:02
Morning
@Jimbo the most important thing is that if I type "trololo" in wikipedia - it will redirect me to author's page :D
hi, @Fabien
How do you plan a project @AlmaDo?
planning? screw that sh*t - just write code!
heh
well, to be honest - your question is "too broad"
that depends of many things. And there are many techniques
11:15
Okay, well I am planning to build a site which has a card game. I can't even think where to start.
I'm just making crude drawings of events atm.
so are you talking about technical architecture or about project planning ?
those are different things
I've never planned or built anything more than a simple website from scratch so I don't know.
I've only built smaller mining systems. Worked with pre-built high traffic sites and built low traffic normal websites.
huh. that will be hard to explain then. I can give some hints, of course, but full picture should be in the end clear to you
first, do you have team ? I.e. if some web-site is planned to be "big" - normally you'll need to have at least designer
I can imagine that you can replace frontend and backend by yourself - but it's near impossible that programmer would replace designer
Negative. It's just me, it's only a learning project. Design wise it'll be wank but I figure I can do good design later if necessary.
if that's learning project - why are you worrying about difference between it and projects you've done before? (and what's the difference)
11:20
I've never started a project in an intelligent way. I've just blundered my way in to it. I want to learn.
@Fabien design as in graphics right?
Nah. Design as in build.
planning the build
well, "intelligent" way isn't a big deal here. But your planning will be 90% as technical architecture then - since you're alone and there's no team/resource/time management issues
Yay for no conflicts.
but from technical viewpoint - first hint is to create busyness rules, i.e. do "paper work"
create abstract schemas, write user-stories e t.c.
11:23
Words to google :)
after that do projection of that to real structures
Morning.
such as DB structure, application logic e t.c.
Morning @Leri
hi, @Leri
@Fabien don't take it too hard. You will not achieve high-level of "intelligent" planing with first project - but thinking about that is a good move. Try to do "paper work" and you'll see that it's not too easy (and it's good that you'll feel that)
11:25
Cool thanks :)
There are many software that can help you with schemas - BUT! I strongly recommend: use paper :)
Yeah, I had planned on pappering everything at first.
because then you'll be able to see your "wrong previous versions", all "fixes" and so on - i.e. all process will be in-place and you'll be able to see how hard some decisions are to make (or how high is price of them in terms of architecture integrity)
and most important - you should realize that in architecture, as in planning - there's no silver bullet - no 100% win strategy. All decisions have their costs and while have advantage in some things - they may loose benefits in other things e t.c.
Aye. I've read the first few chapters of Code Complete 2, sounds a lot like what it said.
I like @ircmaxell 's definition here - "good enough". It's very clear and short description for this
11:30
Good Enough Software™
i.e. if solution is "good enough" to fulfill business-goals - then everything is ok and all should be happy :p
At work I have sticky note which says: Users don't see code, they see app. So I remind myself to stop constantly optimizing/cleaning code. :)
heh. But developers might see your code :)
@Leri yeah. and in the end of work day business wants working code from you. Not ideal code - but working code :p
Damn businesses :(
11:35
BusInAss :p
heh
hehe
LOL it really feels like that.
:D
unless you're paid for doing nothing
@AlmaDo Sounds painful
11:36
#AlmaDoProblems
@AlmaDo Is there any of those jobs?
@DaveRandom I'll not try. no thank you :p
@Leri yes. it is
<--- this guy has such work
He's so lucky. ^
:p
I'd like for my project to work on both cli and cgi. Not sure if that's clean or will convolute things.
11:38
Depends on a project I guess. ^
It's a simple project. Not even original. It's Cards Against Humanity online. But I want to allow customisable cards and such. So not a direct copy.
huh.. I'm trying to find soundtrack of one of my fav. films. The problem is - that it's local, thus, IMDB has no idea about it. Any suggestions?
Cards Against Humanity is a multiplayer party game currently available as a free download or a published hardcopy. The game is available under a non-free Creative Commons license BY-NC-SA. Its title references the phrase "crimes against humanity", reflecting its politically incorrect content. History Cards Against Humanity was created by a group of Highland Park High School alumni as a party game for a New Year's Eve celebration. Cards Against Humanity was financed through the website Kickstarter, exceeding its funding goal by nearly 300% by the project's end on January 30, 2011. Co-creat...
btw I hate card games :p
All card games or just ones that involve the 52-card deck?
11:41
@Fabien Games in CLI? :)
all that I've heard about (btw - never played)
@Leri did you forget about old good times with DOS games?
@Leri No one would ever play it from Cli but the ability to as more of a ... not sure of word, but like restful style of build.
heuristic?
@AlmaDo At that time, I did not even had electricity. :)
CaH is simple. It's a bunch of questions and answers, question gets asked, funniest answer wins. But the answers are a little sick and twisted :)
@Leri how so? where were you been?
11:43
object(Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\ParameterBag)[7]
  protected 'parameters' =>
    array (size=2)
      'form' =>
        array (size=5)
          'username' => string 'sara2' (length=5)
          'password' => string '' (length=0)
          'roles' => string 'ROLE_ADMIN' (length=10)
          'opslaan' => string '' (length=0)
          '_token' => string '49948ea98e6e53e74a9089b041f4f4273c66dea9' (length=40)
      'file1' => string 'on' (length=2)
anyone know how I can get the parameter array out of this?
I can't manipulate the functions
@Fabien Maybe some of us will while configuring server. :p
heh
@AlmaDo Back in my early school days we had quite big problems here in Georgia. Well, post-USSR once again...
@Fabien Honestly, cli is odd, imho.
@Leri I understand :p I visited 10-11 classes when my school was in 25km away from my home - and sometimes school bus was not provided and I had to use auto-stop method to get there. Or even do that on foot partly :p
Maybe it's not necessary. I just thought having the ability to might keep my code loosely coupled.
11:46
huh, that was especially funny when it was below -20
No skis? -_-
@Fabien Your project, you choose. It was just my opinion, i.e. what I'd do.
@AlmaDo Fortunately, my school was in 200 meters.
@Leri Yes but I am ... this guy
@Leri lucky you :p btw in 11 class I was visiting university courses after school. It was in 45 km from school (:
again, post-USSR..
@Fabien Cool. You learn what to do like that. :p
@AlmaDo Where have you been, btw?
11:51
some no-name province in RF (:
"no-name" I mean - even if I'll name it will mean nothing to any person here
I see. Well good to know you're neighbor. :p
you're still in Georgia?
Yes.
not too close neighbors then. I'm currently in Moscow
11:56
@Fabien I don't get it. But regardless, they're totally different models of programming, you probably need to just write decoupled business logic and then two completely different front-ends
Well I'll focus on cgi then keeping cli in mind but not until later.
Need to figure out if I want to use react or not too.
@Fabien For what?
For making the game.
Yeh, but running a webserver on it or what?
@rdlowrey Now that is pretty fucking awesome! Tnx for this and all your other hard work!
12:03
I refer to the "I have no idea what I am doing". One of the key points of the project is to learn a little something about web sockets.
Maybe react doesn't help that goal and I don't understand react.
BTW this is awesome. Old school gaming music in acapella.
@Fabien Ahh OK. If you were to base your web back-end on react, it would actually bring the CLI/web impls a little closer together, because your games would be things with persistent state instead of a series of consecutively invoked scripts
Aye.
I mean I assume that's a good approach for users playing the game.
@bwoebi Seems like you're getting into the habit of breaking git :D
@NikiC god :p I'd break git when I'll just type git in cli :D
lol
12:17
@Fabien Maybe node.js?
Consider that as an option too.
@Leri That'd be more applicable for work purposes but part of the reason for the project is to inject some PHP in my life.
All I do now is CSS/HTML/JavaScript :(
@Fabien Neither I do any PHP, atm. I kinda miss though. :)
class_alias is driving me crazy
For something that needs to persist state via sockets, php is not a good tool, imho.
If you don't want javascript, you can choose python, for instance. The reason is that you don't end-up with lots of work arounds at the end.
I suggest this because as you mentioned it's educational projects and they have to be nearly ideal.
Hi @Levi do you have any idea if newly added images are meant to show up in the preview tool for the online editor news.php.net/php.doc/969384840 , or do I need to put changes live to see the images?
12:32
@Leri I plan to ask @rdlowrey lots of questions to get the best result I can :)
You have experience with Python?
@Fabien Using for fast math calculations when using ubuntu mostly. Or for fast proof of concept/algorithm. Not really an experience.
Ruby ranks a little higher than Python on my to-learn list.
@Fabien why ?
@Fabien I've never written single line in Ruby. I am slowly moving to mobile development from web. And also do some network programming stuff but my understanding of networking really needs lot of work. So Ruby (on rails) is not in my list at all.
@HamZa A friend who is the reason I learnt PHP and became a web dev switched from PHP to it. I trust him.
I means Python is still up there
and Java
12:40
I see
Plus tryruby.org is a nice site :P
historical moment
@Fabien I have played for a short time with ruby (and rails) and python. Ruby (for web) is (or was) very rails centric... Maybe that has changed, I don't know. Python seems to have a lot more variety in that regard.
Yeah RoR and Ruby are almost synonymous for web for me. Python is a personal temptation.
12:58
I need me some math + haskell. My learning to-do list.
I can understand math.. but haskell (:
I don't have a functional language down.
what's wrong with SQL ?
One of the best pieces of advice @teresko ever game me was you don't need to use ~ to get to home directory. Just cd will suffice.
13:05
today I learned...
@Fabien hehe, I have my favorite tricks too
one of them is sudo !!
i.e. run last command as root. Often is needed if you've forgotten to use sudo on some privileged operation
Awesome
or if you want to truncate some file, but not delete it (so keep permissions untouched or whatever). then just do
\> file.txt
13:08
@DanLugg @AlmaDo may I suggest Functional Programming for Object Oriented Programmers. I haven't read it myself though.
stupid markup..
heh nice
@andho Neat! Thanks :-)
but sudo !! was found accidentally and I'm happy to use that :p
@AlmaDo lol, the syntax matches your expression when running that command
"I forgot sudo!!"
13:10
@Fabien oh! btw. if you like cd without params. Try
cd -
it will return you to previous work dir (:
@andho hm.. in some sense (:
Nice @AlmaDo :)
Now if only we could fix your smilies :p
@AlmaDo I never understood the need of that letter. Now I do! :D
we have Ъ too - try to understand it hehe
I'm really insane when someone confuses Ь with Ъ
And when someone confuses one while reading.
:D
However no word can start with either, so why there's capitalized letters, I still don't get.
E_TIRED
13:23
E_BORED
Better to be bored than tired. :p
not sure. If you're tired because you've done lots of work which is interesting - then I doubt what is better
You're always bored. How's project CodeIntelGitHubProfitsGoToFab?
by the pits of hell
what was that? Oo
@AlmaDo When you are bored you can open your favourite IDE and implement something for your own. :)
13:27
@Leri I wish I had some idea to do that (and not just because I'm bored, but because I want to do that and I'm sure I'll use that)
How about a framework? I'm sure we don't have enough of those.
example: I needed to resolve this problem. As the result, I went to SO and created this library :p
morning!
Weird problem
Hey @reikyoushin
@Fabien what's new?
13:29
@Fabien why?
Nada. Day off today as I have an x-ray to see if my stress fracture in my shin are healing.
@AlmaDo What's the application?
@Fabien traversing communications
@AlmaDo Lovely hungarian notation. :) E_TOO_MUCH_C?
@Leri that notation is crap (:
@Fabien Fatal Error: E_FRACTURE_NOT_FOUND on /var/www/xray/app/bootstrap.php
13:31
I've created that code before I went here and they told me that using hungarian is crap
and, more, they explained to me - why it's crap
@reikyoushin heh fingers crossed.
@Leri but I'm too lazy to refactor names :(
@Danack That spaces demo is pretty horrible :P
@PeeHaa All code styles that you don't use are horrible.
@NikiC I already have Johannes' phone number for the next time when I break it :-D
@Danack True that, but 2 spaces indentation is horrible even if you use it yourself :)
@AlmaDo If it helps, I'm renaming a few hundred classes and even more references to them right now ;)
@bwoebi cool!
13:58
@NikiC yeah. then you're not lazy
but I am (:
@PeeHaa Yes, and people who use 2 space indentation are horrible people, so it suits them nicely.
7
especially because I know no one except me will ever use that library
@NikiC remember: don't try to push from an iPhone, you might overlook something…
@bwoebi s/oversee/overlook
14:01
@Danack what's there?
@Danack ftfy (English is sometimes just not similar enough to German)
@AlmaDo an analysis of which code styles are used and the percentage of popularity of those styles.
@bwoebi English sometimes isn't similar enough to English.
@Danack I don't get that?
e.g "Are you going to read that book?" "No, I've already read it." The 'read's are pronounced differently.
because of reasons.
ah okay…
14:03
Lead and Lead
14:18
@bwoebi Push from iphone?!? Wtf
is this candidate for cv-pls? stackoverflow.com/questions/11158652/…
accepted answer is not an answer..
@NikiC no, I didn't push from there but view the patch on github on it… didn't load for some reason on the laptop…
@reikyoushin Yes, there's a "no longer a problem" close reason now.
> a problem that can no longer be reproduced or a simple typographical error.
oh saw it. cool!
user895378
@PeeHaa Thanks for adding the github issue. That's always the preferred way to ask for something as it prevents me from forgetting. Feature added.
user895378
14:28
@bwoebi lol @ push from an iPhone
@rdlowrey Thanks! Note it was not meant as an FIX IT NOW, but just a friendly reminder
user895378
Oh don't worry, if it were something that took more than 5 minutes I wouldn't have done it immediately ;)
Good good :)
@rdlowrey No, I didn't literally push from there… only tethering…^^
user895378
It was just the thought that was funny :)
14:32
but I could do it if you like… there are some apps for ssh access to a server^^
Was tempted to go for the elephpant (purple), but I'd prefer one that's not just for one gender.
@Jimbo There is also a purple one?
@PeeHaa Yep
Maybe we should have one for "PHPMen"?
Ow it support women. Fuck no
LOL. That's not why.
14:38
Yeah it is :)
Divide the boundaries. It should be PHP "everyone".
There's no reason to sub-group and ostracise
@PeeHaa I've successfully auto-discovered a couple of exchange servers from just email address and password \o/
@DaveRandom ow fancy!
Unfortunately the vast majority of people don't have this set up right so most of the time people will also have to enter the server host address as well
WHat is needed on the exchange side for this to work?
14:41
some magic
It's a little more complex than this, but in a nutshell: if you have OWA, it will work. For autodiscovery to work either your OWA needs to be hosted directly on the root of the domain (no-one does this because it would be stupid) or point the A record for autodiscover.<yourdomain> to the OWA server (some people do this but most aren't aware that this is even a thing)
There is a little bit more magic that could be implemented which would result in a higher hit-rate though: try sending an autodiscover request to the host that the MX points to, which a Host: header of autodiscover.<domain>
@DaveRandom I used to run OWA and it's the first time I heard about it :)
user895378
@DaveRandom I realized in the middle of the night that I lied to you about retrieving certificates from ssl connections that fail peer verification. Currently the "capture_peer_cert" and "capture_peer_cert_chain" ctx options only have an effect if verification succeeds. I see value in the type of thing you suggested where you could capture the cert even if peer verification fails. It shouldn't be any big deal to change that, though.
(since many people run exchange and OWA on the same public IP and have the MX for the domain pointed directly at exchange, this will capture a few more I'm sure)
14:47
cool
@rdlowrey Yeh that needs to be sorted out. I'm basically thinking something like what browsers do, as in "I don't trust this cert, here's the info about it, do you want me to trust it?" kinda thing - if you can capture the cert when verification fails, this could be done "properly"
user895378
Definitely.
On the other hand @rdlowrey, you could still do this by turning verification off for the first hit - you could open a socket purely for purposes of capturing the cert, manually verify it and then handle appropriately
(I'm assuming the functionality of manually verifying a cert exists in userland?)
user895378
@DaveRandom Yeah. When you capture the certificate it simply stores an x509 resource in the "peer_certificate" context field. Then you can call openssl_x509_parse on it and do whatever you want.
user895378
likewise if you capture the "peer_certificate_chain"
user895378
@DaveRandom The easiest thing (by far) is to pull the peer fingerprint hash out of that resource and store it in association with the host name being accessed. Then, in future requests to that host you just pass the "peer_fingerprint" context option and verification will succeed going forward.
@rdlowrey That would be the ideal thing to do (and I will), but with the application I have in mind I would like compat with <5.6. I presume the fingerprint check is just a strcmp though? In which case I could manually implement this as a fallback using the techniques mentioned above ^
user895378
@DaveRandom yes it is. As of 5.6 you have the new openssl_x509_fingerprint($cert) function available which is basically just a shortcut to do the same thing. But you can totally pull it out yourself using openssl_x509_parse in pre-5.6
user895378
So as long as you capture the cert in the context you can do the same thing.
/**
 * VERY simple HTTP client, just for testing.
 *
 * @author Chris Wright <[email protected]>
 * @version 0.1
 * @rdlowrey Please don't hurt me
 */
user895378
15:04
Go for it. I don't care. It's not like I was the first person to create an HTTP client. I certainly won't be the last.
try {
    $work->programming();
} catch (TooManyWomenInTheRoomException $e) {
    $shoppingList[] = 'Noise Cancelling Headphones';
}
@rdlowrey You haven't seen the code... :-P
user895378
I assume you're probably writing a server too.
user895378
Which I also don't care about.
Actually no, protocol impl. Checkout the list of spec documents I have to work through :-S
user895378
15:06
You lost me at "Microsoft"
Annoyingly this is another classic MS protocol where it's hard to decouple the protocol lib from the transport cleanly, I'm still wrapping my head around the protocol model though
user895378
I'm curious. Why would you want to write something that requires proprietary non-standard protocol?
How to make code hard to debug:
if (file_exists($file = $dir . DIRECTORY_SEPARATOR . $logicalPathPsr0)) {
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
@Jimbo Y U NO MERGE MY PR?!?!?!?!?
@DaveRandom CAUS I HAZ NO TESTS SO NEED TIME TO MAKE SURE ALL REQS STILL GOOD
Tbf, it's a terribly written piece of code. It needs refactoring massively with tests. I'm just worried about BC with all the noobs that use it
15:13
@Jimbo look at the code and decide if it changes something… and just test what it changes…
Last time we talked I think you suggested a .phar file for the newbies
@rdlowrey It may be proprietary but a) M$ has licensed it out to a number of 3rd parties and b) Exchange is a very widely used system so it does have a fair amount of value
@Jimbo That PR was specifically designed for BC btw, otherwise I'd have done quite a bit more with it
Also @rdlowrey, because @PeeHaa suggested it and it sounded interesting
In any case, there isn't, as far as I'm aware, an actual standard for this kind of thing (specifically what @PeeHaa wants is contact exchange)
@Jimbo Yes, wasn't that composer related though?
user895378
@DaveRandom Yeah, I can see the potential for $$$ in it. Anyway, artax was written for a very-specific use case: insanely parallel non-blocking retrieval so that I can retrieve and analyze hundreds of computationally expensive DOM documents every second. Also, I needed features (like limiting max simultaneous connections on a per-host basis) to avoid getting IP bans from the Securities and Exchange Commission. There simply was nothing remotely adequate in PHP, so I had to do it myself.
As in: for people who are so fucking dumb they can't even run one shell command
user895378
If other people want to write HTTP clients that serve their needs it's not an affront to me :)
@rdlowrey Well I'd ideally like to write it in such a way that it can be used via Artax (or React or whatever), if only because it's sane. I'm still wrapping my head around how to decouple the protocol from the client though.
@Lusitanian I read that every time as "the php plague".
@DaveRandom Let's be nice, but let's be honest. Some people who use the lib don't even know how to do a foreach().
user895378
15:20
@DaveRandom Yeah I totally get it. TBH I'd like to completely rewrite artax so it could be useful for any socket protocol and not just HTTP but I just don't have the time or financial incentive right now :/
@Lusitanian I send you that 2 months ago :P
@PeeHaa oops.
:D
@Danack Everybody does :)
user895378
user image
4
user895378
^ classic.
15:24
@Lusitanian BTW I started on a service abstraction library as an extension for the lib so we can more easily test implementations and issues in the future
@PeeHaa :D probably a good idea(TM)
I was trying to figure out how to nicely phrase that I don't want a "getUserData" thing on our service classes
@rdlowrey I wish somebody had responded with: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_fig
user895378
@cspray lol
15:26
Hi all.
user895378
Hmm ... apparently the Bengali word for "fig" is "dumur" ... coincidence?
@rdlowrey not at all
@Lusitanian I will put the base setup on github later this week so we can point and say look bicthes
@Lusitanian lol
@PeeHaa sounds good
@DaveRandom yeahhhhhhhh that was bad.
15:27
@DaveRandom You are not in a position to laugh about that...
:D
i revoked that key immediately
@PeeHaa This is very true. Although to be fair the private key I committed was only a test key and I'll shut up now
heheheheh
@Danack yeah but I revoked the key anyway, so it's not a big deal to me
15:34
Fuck SVN. Seriously. It is a huge, fat, slow, useless pool of loose stool water.
2
@DaveRandom Oh boy, some of the horror stories I've had with SVN...
Admittedly this was at least partially PHPStorm's fault, but it's just taken me about half an hour commit a file.
@DaveRandom Seems very SVN-ish
I really don't dislike SVN that much...
Well, my first experience with SVN was after I had already gotten used to DVCS and the way it was being used was horribly wrong and ineffcient
That being said...SVN sucks. DVCS all day, every day.
15:48
I prefer Microsoft(TM) Team Foundation
or something.
Visual SourceSafe?
i wonder, why does most MS products have "Visual"?
hi guys, mysql sysadmin question here, figured you php types will know the answer. i've setup a new mysql user on a server that allows access from other servers. i can access it from my dev machine using the credentials. But on one of my other servers nothing happens when trying to log into mysql using the same credentials that worked on my dev box. any ideas what it might be?
@Andy nothing happens? No errors or anything?
nope
nothing, i dont even get a "connection refrused"
the timeout in my.cnf is 120 seconds, so i'll try again and leave it for a good 2 mins
i then checked the credentials from a seperate server, just incase it was a fluke from dev box, and the connection worked as expected
@Andy That's probably a firewall thing, you can set servers to just not acknowledge connection attempts, which results in you not even getting a connection refused.
16:02
ok, so am i likely to have a firewall rule to not allow OUTGOING mysql requests?
because clearly the DB server (which is new) hasnt got a firewall rule to stop INCOMING mysql requests as i can connect from at least 2 other servers
if i block port 3306 can i specify incoming and outgoing? or does it just block the port?
@Andy Unless the rule was setup to only allow requests from certain IP addresses - which is a good way of doing it.
atm as the server is new i dont have anything like that, so will add it when i am finished setting it up.
@Andy If you don't know the answer to those, you should probably speak to whoever configured the servers, rather than changing stuff yourself.
the old one mind, that has some iptable stuff, i'm looking and it doesnt seem to have anything specific to port 3306 or mysql
i setup the new server
the old one was managed by me and someone else. the other guy doesnt work for me anymore and i cant reach him, so i'm not sure if he added some restrictions
plus, how will i learn if i dont try ;)
@Andy If it's centos my notes for doing iptables stuff are here - otherwise I have no clue.
16:08
na debian
i'll take a look though either way
@DaveRandom my site's performance increased dramatically after running the fixwordpress.php script. thanks!
seems my server provider has a network firewall which might be dropping the connections
so we were half right ;)
user924016
@Lusitanian does it delete the wp install?
@RonniSkansing :P yes
user924016
lol
16:26
@Lusitanian Yeh, all those pesky files are a real performance killer #ftfy
"multiplicand" is actually a word.

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