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21:02
@LeviMorrison what for? I mean, I know that most people do that, but I'm starting to doubt the utility
@Gordon It's for when we compare candidates later, sometimes three weeks or more later.
23 hours ago, by bwoebi
I'm wondering why so many people voted no on the automatic property initialization RFC… I don't really get that from the vote thread…
@LeviMorrison ah ok. if it takes three week then its fine
They are to help remind us of the candidate.
Even for just 1 week later I would still take notes.
And the more candidates you have the more those notes might come in handy too to help you remember.
We take fewer notes with junior positions, sometimes no notes at all.
Theoretically the notes could protect you from legal stuff that nobody should ever have to go through.
Got any horrible interviewee stories? :)
We had this one guy who after 5 minutes we knew was an instant no. The guy wouldn't leave! Kept assuming control of the interview and harping on no matter what we said.
21:10
well, i ran into another problem with the java-php chat thing.. i hosted an account at 000webhost. now using the java application i was able to register perfectly, but the problem is there is this method called URLConnection.getInputStream(); i think it reads the response from the url, so during a login, when i need to get the stored hash from the php page, i cannot get it.. and all i get is this:
<!-- Hosting24 Analytics Code -->
<script type="text/javascript" src="http://stats.hosting24.com/count.php"></scri
@LeviMorrison thanks for sharing
@Fabien Sounds like you (collectively) aren't good at reassuming control ^^
We've had some quick interviews because we knew the candidates were no-gos.
@LeviMorrison Yup, I am a pushover
The worst I've had is when someone is continuously negative about their current or past employer.
@bwoebi I don't know exactly but I guess Sara is right when she says the current patch alone adds very little saving of boilerplate code
21:13
Do you ask them why they're leaving if they are employed?
yes
I find the concerning thing about interviews is it's more about giving the answer the interviewer wants to hear more than perhaps your own. Depending on your need/want for the role I guess.
would somebody say me something plz
@Gordon well… the ctor promotion patch adds too much saving of boilerplate code…
Granted those two aren't mutually exclusive.
21:14
where's the middle?
"Give me an example of how you've dealt with conflict in the past".
@bwoebi yes that's correct.
@bwoebi that's the question
Nov 21 '13 at 18:39, by NikiC
@Fabien "Yes, I know how to resolve merge conflicts" :)
@Gordon I think we have the middle with your patch… but well…
user895378
lol
21:17
;)
@Fabien i dont... yet. T-T
@Fabien I usually try to find out whether they are good fit for the team, what their expectations are and what they know which can help support the project.
21:18
sir @bwoebi pingsalot
And if I do the interview alone, I usually tell them straight from the beginning
Personality more so than skill? I mean a good skill developer can elevate the people around them, a good personality can slide in well.
if other folks are there I am usually not in charge of the interview, so different people, different questions
@Fabien That depends
I prefer the Automatic Property Initialization over the Constructor Promotion RFC simply because I want to assign my properties in the constructor... not define them there.
21:19
You can learn a lot from a guy like teresko in your team
@MadaraUchiha @MadaraUchiha shouldn't ping @bwoebi when @MadaraUchiha doesn't need more @MadaraUchiha pings from @bwoebi.
But that doesn't help if he thinks you are all idiots :D
@MadaraUchiha I guess it's partially down to the other devs too. Whether you feel inspired or put down.
I find I do well on a personality level. I just wish to get my ability higher.
But I don't have much of a 'leadership' aspect in all honesty.
21:20
:P
@Fabien well, software is written by people and most problems in a team are people problems.
As I mentioned, I am a pushover :P
@Gordon too true. When I was managing (probably shouldn't have been) we had a 10 person team. Ugh, the drama was worse than internals.
Personal problems in a professional work place. I don't understand why some people struggle to be professional about things.
@Fabien as for skill: I have high expectations, but I don't mind if they don't meet them, when the personality is right. Of course, meeting none of them is not exactly helpful either, but in the end, it's quite hard to asses what a person really knows in the short timeframe of an interview anyway, whereas I can rather easily find out whether someone is likeable or has the right attitude.
What's your probation period like?
3-6 months?
yupp
21:26
@ircmaxell Congrats on the new job!!!
I find people rarely don't pass. Which is surprising seeing as it's quite an important period. A lot simply don't want to go back to recruitment I guess.
Actually, it'd be a good time to ask if you have any books you'd recommend on project management, in particular for something like a digital agency.
Anything useful I can recommend to the higher ups to improve workflow.
@salathe Tnx
21:29
@PeeHaa no problemo, thanks for mentioning it earlier! :)
np :)
Awesome thanks. They were discussing something regading 'agile' yesterday, hence the question, you instantly sprung to mind when I heard them say it.
@Fabien just as a warning: people that want to improve and change things are often unpopular ;)
heh. Why do you say that?
because people dont want to change
especially if they feel coerced
21:31
Anyone have experience with PayPal integration? Just wondering what to quote a client for something simple, wondering how long it will take to build from scratch.
paypal !== simple
@Gordon Well, my hopes are more that they understand the terms they use and the direction they head in if they wish to earnestly try them. I try to embrace change because at least it's movement.
quote them triple what you think it would take and add some to be sure
Is 10 hours close?
@WesleyMurch 20000 USD per day. for the pain alone
21:33
I don't think they'll bite... :)
It's not my idea, btw
TBH though, I can recommend a book, doesn't mean they'll read it even if they feign interest. But at least I can do my part.
there is a reasons these things are called painment providers ;)
What's a reasonable quote you think?
@Fabien well, best advice I can give you: if you want to introduce change, brace for resistance.
@WesleyMurch I tried to do some paypal integration few years ago. Just the documentation has been a pain to implement in php. I was able to contact paypal and the tech I spoke to admit the documentation was crap lol
21:36
heh. Thank you :) Very Vegetius-ish.
I think they have a new API now. It still looks daunting.
@WesleyMurch I would aim higher. As @happy already told you it has the worst docs you will ever find
What would you quote a client for something very "simple"?
20h+ I guess?
A Buy it now button is really simple and really simple.
I need the response though.
21:38
that sucks
@WesleyMurch do you need to implement it to something of your brew?
@Fabien especially if you want to introduce agile. agile puts people first. empowered people. that means someone will have to relinquish control. micromanagers hate that. be it because they are used to be in control or because they fear they become obsolete.
@happy Not sure what you mean.
It's going to be tacked on to an existing project that I didn't write.
@WesleyMurch do you build your thing from scratch? Is the thing custom-built or built upon zen cart for example?
I haven't seen the site's code but I assume it's spaghetti.
It's from scratch, @happy.
21:41
@WesleyMurch is the code well-documented? and more importantly can you communicate with whoever wrote it?
@Gordon We're a fairly small team. I'm not really introducing it, I am just recommending a place for them to really understand it if they wish to. I too often hear buzzwords dropped at work without much concern for truly understanding what we're doing.
For instance we all have macs, not because we want but because of how it "looks".
It's like a visual buzzword for clients.
@happy No idea, but I'm nearly sure it's irrelevant.
It would be like building from scratch, like building a simple demo.
A bit much bandwagon'ing.
@Fabien I'm in a similar-ish situation. It's the most terribly irresponsible waste of business assets I've ever seen.
@WesleyMurch I don't think it is irrelevant because it could be a hint that you are about to enter a blackhole that will blow all of your time ending you making no money
21:43
@happy Have you worked with PayPal integration?
@WesleyMurch few years ago and it was a freaking nightmare
@happy How long would you say it would take to learn/build a demo with a single product, get the response, and show a page that says, "Thanks for buying X"?
(ok 3 products)
"Measure twice, cut once". I'd like a bit more of that.
@WesleyMurch I would say it depend on how much time it would take you to understand the documentation. It is the worst part. Have you read it yet?
Normally I dislike vertical monitor setups but I think this is alright. I'd strill trade it in for a single monitor of the same width/height. Maybe I just like the frame and hidden cables.
@Fabien well, a lot of Agile is buzzwords, too.
@happy, A little. I've read some tutorials as well and although they had nasty PHP code I think I could figure it out in a reasonable amount of time. Just not sure about how long it really takes, including setting up the PP dev account etc.
@Gordon This is what concerned me and the reason for the book recommendation :)
@Fabien the book is very abstract though. it has lots of systems theory in it. its a good read but I was left wondering what to make of most of that.
@happy What if I quote 20 hours? Will I be screwing myself?
21:49
@DanLugg Mac OS X 10.5+ is Unix but has the advantage that there is more commercial software support. And in my case we get an educational discount as well.
In the laptop category I don't feel like there were any viable alternatives to the MacBook Pros as of a year ago.
@Gordon In all honesty I cant imagine them actually picking it up and reading it.
@WesleyMurch I don't think. That being said the other part would actually be to integrate it to existing project and that, depending on how well documented is the code can be a nightmare by itself. I hope you best of luck
Oh, I don't have any real issue with Macs (I don't personally like using them, but that's just me) rather, I take issue with a company wasting resources and, ultimately, everybody's time.
Thankfully, I was able to get around having to receive a Mac.
@happy Thanks for the advice. I'm happy to get the experience and make a little money, even if it's a nightmare.
> Nginx 1.5.10 released with SPDY 3.1 support.
21:52
@Fabien there is a couple more books in the Cohn Addison Wesley Signature series books which have more concrete advice on agile: mikecohnsignatureseries.com. I only have two of them but I find the AW Sig Series to be very valuable reads so I'll recommend them to everyone
Just don't want to underbid.
That's great, Nginx, but not HTTP 2.0 draft 09?
@happy In the end did you succeed?
@LeviMorrison isn't HTTP2 roughly based on SPDY anyway?
@WesleyMurch I recommend you to do a test with 1 item, if you don't mind
@WesleyMurch yes
21:53
@Charles The original proposal was exactly SPDY; they are no longer the same.
@Gordon Cool thanks, bookmarked them.
@Fabien is the folks on your team managers or devs?
managers/directors
Not my team. I'm a lowly dev with on 1.5 months at the company
Which sounds riskier than it is recommending this stuff :P. But its really a small-ish company. ~25 people. 2 designers 6 devs, and a director of development. Project manager guy and the normal Chiefs.
And it's 90% front-end
@Fabien in that case, you could ask if they buy you a subscription for the print issue of HBR.com. Then let the magazines lie around for them to pick them up. That way, you don't have to convince them but they'll read all the new fancy management things on their own. Guerilla Education FTW :)
user1607528
Good morning, i am using phpmailer for sending emails, will this affect speed, 1) if I add one recipient at a time and send then clear recipient and add another one and send ? 2 )Currently I am using Blind Carbon Copy to hide other recipients names, sending all at once
21:58
@happy Again, thanks for your input. Just fired off a quote for 30 hours, will see where it goes.
@Muhammet phpmailer affect speed?
@Gordon heh. site is down but harvard business review :P Maybe they'd like it heh.
Oh back up now
wow
-7
Q: hey, do you lot know any website that allow the user to log in and search with asp.net?(NEED THE CODE PLEASE)

user3272834i need the ,code . please could you help me out. ,i have tried to program it but it hasnt work and im really struggling. IM A ROOKIE.

user1607528
@PeeHaa just lol
At least he's honest about it :P
user1607528
21:59
:D
@Muhammet :D
user1607528
@PeeHaa I used to think like that 3 years ago
user1607528
:D
@WesleyMurch you are welcome
user1607528
@happy i meant which one of those 2 options above are better and why?
22:03
@Muhammet personally if both recipient need the same email I can't see why sending them separate email but on the other hand I would not want my provider to think I am sending spam, it is a concern.
@PeeHaa Is the question that bad? I have no idea, it seems fine.
user1607528
@happy it's an email marketing app, the only reason sending multiple times is to hide other recipients, i wanted to know if there are any cons of BCC
@WesleyMurch How is it programming related?
bye guys!
22:06
@PeeHaa OK, I think I get it.
user1607528
Let's say I have 5000 emails to send, what is the good breakpoint for it ? Like send 100 and stop for a 30seconds and continue ?
user1607528
?
@Danack there probably isn't any docs for that, sorry :(
22:21
@Muhammet does your provider gap limit on SMTP?
user1607528
@happy I don't really know much about that ? Does it relate to hosting, its on regular HostGator hosting, I don't know :(
@Muhammet it depend on your hosting. I think you need to know otherwise your provider could shut your SMTP off or even close your account.
user1607528
@happy thanks for the advice I will check it out
@Muhammet np
user1607528
@happy do hostings limit by all sent email counts or emails sent once at a time ?
22:25
@Muhammet to my knowledge by email sent and sometime put a gap limit on how many email can be sent at once
user1607528
@happy thanks a lot, how many years of experience do you have on web development ?
@Muhammet not much. I do what I can to survive ;)
user1607528
@happy :))
22:45
hmm
is it me going nuts or is the PDO constructor returning false on failed connection? :X
So I just went to the shop. Bought some beer. Forgot to put in my bag. And came home without the beer.
5
I am cry.
what kind of man would forget his beer in the shop? thats like forgetting to fetch your kids from kindergarten
5
user895378
@Danack This is a great sadness, sir.
@Gordon worst comparison ever.
What makes it worse is that I also got a curry, so then had a curry without beer.
22:55
@bwoebi thank you :)
so has ircmaxell disclosed if he going to be doing php advocacy or something else at the big G
user924016
no but i bet its go
Think he wowwed them with Hugs as a Service?
user924016
hehe yea
user652649
23:14
Finally! I have real Internet and not that crap hotels pass off as Internet.
23:29
@Danack done
23:40
What's php advocacy?
I suppose respecting the double claw?
hello

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