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00:06
@tereško i don't know if you remember me (i'm the idiot/jerk who asks a bunch of bad questions in chat), but i just started full-time php dev position today, and you + a couple others in this room were instrumental in my learning to code
so thank you, you grumpy genius
you're welcome
@NoahHuppert There's a meta question that addresses this issue and apparently there's too much fear that crap questions will get targeted for migration
@cspray I guess that's true. Alot of people just ask the code fairies to figure out what is wrong.
00:20
I am using twitter bootstrap template, but adding stuff on top of it is actually pretty difficult. If I add anything, then I have to adjust the code for every condition that is pre-defined for the default template code, which is way too annoying. Do I have any other options or choice? Or am I stuck with it?
@TheGuyWhoCouldn'tTalkToTheGirl I don't have experience with that. However in my experience adding on top of templates is pretty hard if you dont fully understand how they work. Thats why I like making my own code.
note to self: don't ignore ruby on your machine for three months and then just run gem update in the middle of doing other stuff
@NoahHuppert That's what I wanted to do first, but I need to use some of the bootstrap features and it will be even more hard to recreate those features.
@TheGuyWhoCouldn'tTalkToTheGirl Ok. I'll take your word for it.
@TheGuyWhoCouldn'tTalkToTheGirl Then only use those features and not the whole thing?
00:26
@cspray Its all combined in the css file. nit-picking the specific stuff that is required for the features to work is even more annoying.
@TheGuyWhoCouldn'tTalkToTheGirl Doesn't Twitter give you some way to pick and choose at the build process what you get?
not sure why that guy who couldnt talk is tiny iconed for me, but this conversation seems really entertaining when i can't see his side
5 dev-ey type people to follow with a new twitter account: go!
For those who are using bootstrap do you see it at something that is better than using jquery to make your sites scale(I don't realy know much about it)
@NoahHuppert i see it as having very little to do with jQuery, other than depending on it
and nothing to do with scalability whatsoever
c'mon, no one in here wants a free twitter follower?
00:32
@dyelawn I am only realy familiar vaguely with the fact that it exist. I'm @noahhuppert if u wana test soemthing.
no testing, just setting up an account and looking for people to follow bc i don't know how to skip the part where they make you follow people
Oh. well feel free to follow. I only use it browse and stuff.
ahhhhh, relief, gems finished updating before my laptop lit my pants on fire
@NoahHuppert good deal, followed for engaging in discussion
00:45
Is there a line of code I can put in .htacces to redirect people to a mobile version of my site?
@NoahHuppert sure
like?
@NullPoiиteя Lol. Nice name...
the problem is that you don't want to redirect everyone there
00:47
Should I make a little jquery mobile style popup asking if they want to go to the mobile site?
@NoahHuppert you could do that
but all i hear the trendiest web devs talking about these days is responsive design
responsive design is something that only small & light sites can use
@teresko respectively disagree. google uses responsive design.
@NoahHuppert thanks ;)
@dyelawn My site has a little carousel thing I made so that is the only thing that would change from mobile to desktop. Other than that I was able to make my mobile website the same...
00:50
@NoahHuppert why does the carousel have to change?
oh go**ammit, i just spent months holed up, learning MVC, and now it's not even the thing anymore? down with MOVE!
@dyelawn sure , but have you noticed "where they use it" ?
do they use it for gmail, map, analytics ?
@tereško yeah, is that not responsive design? especially the OneBox / google defined results?
@dyelawn It just does not scale. I can create a realy simple version if it detects mobile though. I would direct you to my site for an example but it seams to be having query errors
yeah they do for analytics
not sure about gmail or map
no, they dont use repsonsive design there
00:53
@NoahHuppert weren't you saying you use bootstrap? just put the hide on mobile visibility class on the slider
they serve you different page
hold on, you're probably right, let me check
@dyelawn I'm was asking what bootstrap was. I have played with it localy...
also, MOVE is not a thing .. it's a brainfart by someone who assumed that Rails is MVC
@tereško ah-ha! they do use responsive design for the analytics (landing) page!
00:55
actauly I have not what the fuck is happening right now on my site. anyone wanna go code fairy mode for me? noahhuppert.com/not%20Mobile
and i also am seeing an adaptation of the desktop design on my mobile, but it could just be due to disabled cookies
@NoahHuppert not particularly. without using bootstrap, you can achieve what i was describing (hide the carousel on mobile) with some pretty simple css
don't sigh at me! i thanked you like less than an hour ago
@NoahHuppert but really, you shouldn't be hiding that on mobile, just using images that respond well to resizing
or use the "clown car" technique
It is more the way I display the items on each side of the primary one. Ill just hide it if on mobile
@dyelawn just now opened the analytics page on my phone. It obviously served different HTML
01:06
the landing page or the actual interface for viewing data?
bc the data interface used to serve up a little accordion with some key metrics, and now is serving up all the things for me
yes, the landing page
they have "responsive design" for desktop applications , and mobile design for mobile devices
@teresko looks pretty similar to me. also, from like 90% of the resources i've read, i'm pretty sure hamburger button = responsive design.
lol
there is no such button when viewing on a phone
what is more likely is that they are serving different content to different clients .. which is basic functionality of GWT
hm? i've got one in the second row on the right hand side
there was no "second row"
01:13
i know nothing about gwt
here is another example: wikipedia
open it in browser and open it on mobile device
an actual listing or just wikipedia.org
the main page
anyway .. I was actually trying to do something useful some time ago
i don't have a web inspector on my phone, so i can't verify for sure, but i don't think there's different markup being served on those two pages
you can always count on me to destroy usefulness
It looks at least scaled and possibly a new version b/c the big globe was gone on mobile. Use riptide mobile simulator on desktop btw.
01:16
right, that "scaled" you're talking about is a function of RWD
and most css frameworks have visibility classes, so it might not be "scaling", but "hiding/showing" instead
could be
point is, you don't need to hide that carousel on any device unless you designed your images specifically for a desktop resolution
Well I will see what I can do...
bootstrap's solution is super fancy: .img-responsive { width: 100%, height: auto;}
fancy
So I have been looking around at determining if a device is a mobile device. is there a way to do it without typing in 1000 different device names? Like: $.browser.device = (/android|webos|iphone|ipad|ipod|blackberry|iemobile|opera mini/i.test(navigator.userAgent.toLowerCase()));
01:22
just use css
What if I want a popup to apear if mobile?
i think that's what teresko was describing above with client-specific markup in the google web toolkit
i'd use a hack, though
if the behavior you're talking about is truly "pop-up", i'd set a css property for the element that is supposed to "pop up" on screen-width < 480px, then get that property when the document loads
Actauly found this which uses the ht access file
233
Q: Auto detect mobile browser (via user-agent?)

TeddyTomHow can I detect if a user is viewing my web site from a mobile web browser so that I can then auto detect and display the appropriate version of my web site?

01:26
i wouldn't really count on user agent as a dictator of display
Well it works...
not really... user agent is easily fudged, and just because i'm on a desktop agent doesn't mean my window is fully expanded
My site scales pretty well on stuff greater than 500px
so no worries
i'm no expert, but i'm pretty sure the conventions are moving away from UA sniffing and towards simpler things like presentation based on width of the window
well ill be using a popup for not. turns out u were right. htaccess redirect get messy when u want to not use mobile sites on mobile devices
01:32
ok, so you want the popup to show up on big screens, but not small screens, correct?
correct. simple jquery
ok, so use a media query in your css to set a property only on screens whose width are greater than 768px
just something benign, like border color or something
then write a little piece of jquery that gets the value of that property, and if it equals the value for screens larger than 768, then pop it up
or use if($(window).width() < 700){alert('I have a mobile site if you want to check it out. It is alot easier to view');}
and then if the user clicks ok or cancle/no not now it takes them to the site
i am clearly not effectively communicating here
Hmm - that's fucking weird:
composer update
- Removing phpunit/phpunit (3.7.27)
- Installing phpunit/phpunit (3.7.26)
01:36
explain again?
KISS is an acronym for "Keep it simple, stupid" as a design principle noted by the U.S. Navy in 1960. Origin The acronym was reportedly coined by Kelly Johnson, lead engineer at the Lockheed Skunk Works (creators of the Lockheed U-2 and SR-71 Blackbird spy planes, among many others). While popular usage has translated it for decades as, 'Keep it simple, stupid', Johnson translated it as, 'Keep it simple stupid' (no comma), and this reading is still used by many authors. There was no implicit meaning that an engineer was stupid; just the opposite. The principle is best exemplified by t...
@Danack what deps did you add/remove
Night all
which reminded me that I should run PEAR updates
@dyelawn Nothing - switched between a branch for one dependency that doesn't even list PHPunit as a dependency.
A principle named after me. ^^
01:39
maybe one of its dependencies dependencies dependencies dependency lists phpunit as a dependency
@PeterKiss The Peter Principle?
Doubt it:
"require": {
"php": ">=5.3.0"
},
stability setting?
@dyelawn nope. pretty sure not.
wormhole?
@danack that can't be the whole composer.json for everything involved in your update command
@dyelawn maybe. Do you know what the actual URL for the json is from the URL logged. https---packagist.org/provider-phpunit$phpunit.json
@dyelawn Yeah - it was actually - The command was composer update rdlowrey/auryn and he keeps it lean: github.com/rdlowrey/Auryn/blob/master/composer.json
01:46
ok, so i dont know if you should be entertaining my responses, but it could also be something to do with a rollback of phpunit
because iirc composer's default stability setting is stable
so if phpunit 3.7.27 had previously been marked as stable, but then was marked as something else (e.g. dev), then composer could react to that change in the stability of the version tagged 3.7.27
I'm thinking it may be a bug in Composer. I'm looking at the composer.lock file. The only thing that has actually changed in their is the rdlowrey/Auryn i.e. the thing that I wanted to update. PHPUnit is still the same version + hash as before.
a version such as 3.7.27 is always stable by definition
see, i told you i'm an idiot
(at least that's how composer defines package stability)
if you can make a bash script that reproduces the issue from scratch I'll toy with it tomorrow
hold on, let me look at the phpunit repo, bc that is strange behavior that i'd be interested to understand
nope, only other thing i thought might be happening is if the 3.7.27 tag was removed.
and it hasn't been
01:49
Hi! I am using godaddy VPS server still my website go down i am using wordpress website! any suggestion you can give
or any plugin which will help me to speed up my website or make php script fast!
@MalikUsman i usually like to make sure the AC adapter is plugged in
lol
what kind of AC is that which you use for wordpress?
@igorw Nope - can't get it to repeat. But do you know what the correct URL would be for seeing the exact json Packagist is serving up? e.g. how to convert https---packagist.org/provider-phpunit$phpunit.json into an actual URL.
@igorw just saw your tweet, this is lgsdylan from twitter
no help found never mind next time to leave have fun T.C
01:55
@dyelawn so that is you. of course I remember. you did crazy amazon service stuff in the constructor that traversed directories and then compiled it into a static routes file with symfony. how could I forget?
crazy awesome
scary as it may seem, i got this spot specifically for my symfony expertise (which no longer includes doing crazy things like that)
@Danack run composer with -vvv
it should log it afaik
at least I think that includes the URLs it hits over HTTP
@igorw It logs it exactly as https---packagist.org/provider-phpunit$phpunit.json which isn't valid.
or at least that's the cached version.
Guess will need to flush a cache to get it to re-download
hm, I guess it's logging garbage then :P
@igorw i'll stop the thanking after this, but it was a big turning point for me when you linked to the mother of all demos in here. little while after i turned off all of the chat/twitter/distraction stuff and just started learning my sh*t
02:03
@Danack please open a ticket for that, it should log the real URL
@igorw Even when it's reading it from the cache?
or is it not logging because it's loading from cache?
aha
then nevermind
could it be choosing an earlier version in cache over a later version not in cache?
@dyelawn engelbart is amazing, totally blew my mind and made me think "wtf are we doing?"
fwiw, I've made a collection of related stuff: igor.io/videoshelf.html
very cool, will check each of those out as part of continuing education program. bad news of this job: they want me to transition a poorly maintained sf1 app to sf2 in like a week
02:07
but I fear when this year's strangeloop videos start coming out, that list will become double as long...
what's strangeloop? i get a conference budget now :)
strange loop is the best thing. ever.
ahhh it's already over though huh?
that is certainly a diverse set of sessions
@dyelawn sounds like a nice lot of technical debt.
@igorw i'm not even trying to mess with the code they've currently got. there are literally no branches in the svn, just a big blob with things like C:///xampp/this/that/theother commented out all over the config
plus, i don't want to learn propel :)
or maybe it's C:\, i don't know how those kinds of computers work
02:16
@igorw I can't replicate my composer issue at all, so I won't open a ticket of anything. For your edification the whole command was:
Dan-Ackroyds-MacBook-Pro:intahwebz danack$ composer update rdlowrey/auryn
Warning: This development build of composer is over 30 days old. It is recommended to update it by running "/usr/local/bin/composer self-update" to get the latest version.
Loading composer repositories with package information
Updating dependencies (including require-dev)
  - Updating rdlowrey/auryn (dev-danackExceptionRefactor 4ee15ac => dev-DanackMaster 42029e2)
    Checking out 42029e2a245c93a37f2284b88e5bbda6f8883485
Obviously time to update composer anyway - so I'll just keep an eye out for it happening again.
got to be that it's preferring the cached version over the latest version
composer update <packagename> sometimes does weird stuff afaik
anyway, bedtime. 'night!
gnight
wait, is your name really dan ackroyd?
bc if so thats awesome
That other guy spells it differently. Also - yeah, it's easy for people to remember.
02:38
is anyone getting a phishing warning by visiting stackoverflow.com/questions/6400300/… ? (chrome latest v.)
@DaveChen i am not
looks like:
i have unexpectedly gotten that before, not on SO though
@DaveChen the irony of it happening on that post =oP
02:53
@DaveChen Yes me too.
03:13
Any ideas on how to bypass a database entry causing a 1062 Duplicate entry error. Right now I'm using a try/catch setup to fill a database.
I just want to skip the entry and move on to the next if it's already in the database.
03:32
I fail to see what's wrong with try/catch approach ..
The entire script stops.
So I guess my problem is handling the Duplicate entry error and then moving on to the next entry.
no, your problem is not knowing how to work with exceptions
Aaah. Gotcha.
$total_duplicates = 0;

$statement = $pdo->perpare('INSERT ... blah');
$statement->bindParam(':meh', $i, PDO::PARAM_INT);
for ( $i = 0; $i < 100; $i++)
{
    try
    {
        $statement->execute();
    }
    catch( Exception $e)
    {
        if ( $e->getCode() === 1062 )
        {
            $total_duplicates++;
        }
    }
}
Cool. Going to try that out.
03:39
this of course assumes that you know how to use PDO
Ya. That's what I'm using currently.
This is SO. Just because you use X, does not meant that you automagically know how to use X.
Totally. Thanks for the help.
user652649
03:55
morning
04:14
bottom of the evenin' to ya
emm... guys .. do you have any rules for order of parameter in API ?
and what about the methods that are not part of API? What about private and protected?
04:32
a ton of my dpkg list files are corrupted =o( they have some garbage output in them instead of a list of files. I'm having to replace them one by one with copies from another server. The bad output is triple URL encoded. Anyone else come across this happening to them?
I always start with non-optional params
er, non-defaulted or what-not
outside of that I have no rhyme or reason really, just whatever order makes most sense at the moment :-\
this is currently my problem naah .. just a brain-fart
I don't know how I feel about Gordon's rfc....
it feels too "magic" unless it works on all methods
user895378
@Orangepill I really like it. And I would probably only want it on constructors ...
user895378
04:44
There's nothing magical about $this->prop = 42 -- the RFC just saves you time ...
Maybe I'm just too set in my ways
user895378
It mostly comes down to personal preference in this case. There's a difference between "make your life easier" and "magic" and I definitely wouldn't put this RFC in the latter category.
I think my problem is that it makes a constructor's signature special...
This question appears to be off-topic because the OP is too busy to try it themselves — Phil 25 mins ago
04:50
But I can definitely see the labor savings though, I think it might be confusing to people new to the language.
I get this nagging feeling that there was syntax for similar goal in C++, but I haven't used it in this decade
or was it c#
imho the only thing that should be special about a constructor is that it is called when new is called.
@teresko maybe if there was a successful corollary in another successful language that may justiify the syntax for me.
hmm .. it's C++
and the syntax applied to PHP would looks something like:
private $x;
public function __construct( $a ):$x($a){}
can you upload zip files in the chat?
04:58
dern
you can link to them
@teresko personal opinion.... that looks ugly as sin.
you could rework it as public function __construct( $a ) : $this->x{}
@tereško in your example above $x is set as a function with $a as the params?
confusing at first glance, looks like a construct that turns into a ternary hehe
my eyes are programmed to have interpret mashed-together lines with : in the middle as ternary by default apparently
I hope this is made :D
52
Q: IRC access for the chat?

jszWill there be any way of accessing the chat over IRC? As beautiful ajax interfaces are ... IRC is still #1 for chats.

05:02
ohhhh, C
I like the concept and the goal.... not a fan of the syntax... but I can't imagine a better way then what is proposed.
all of a sudden that makes more sense
@DaveChen me too!!!
@DaveChen and how do you expect such functionality as "edit" be implemented ?
I <3 limechat but stackoverflow's people know more and are less bitchy
ahh, touché
./edit <last_message>
where last_message is the last message that will be edited*
05:04
you can edit more the just the last message
it could be supported by the server but /edit would not work in some clients
The syntax also discourages any precondition checks.
yeah, definitely wouldn't keep all the functionality :\
@tereško it's like that for the mobile interface (which is a lower version of it)
and I wouldn't mind losing some features, I'd just like to be able to check up on chat // having it open 24/7 in pidgin
but IRC users aren't expecting to be able to have all the functionality
as long as it doesn't look all funky in text-only
05:06
also, if I'm not mistaken, then @nickname will not trigger a highlight in IRC clients
+, you could also just say /edit_message <1/2/3/4...etc> <message>, also messages can't be edited after 5 minutes afaik
at least is it doesnt in opera
@tereško it does, well for pidgin, depends on the client
also .. there is small issue of deleting posts
most people (well just myself maybe), are asking for IRC functionally not so we can connect via webirc, it just makes it easier to integrate into third party clients
05:08
I second that @DaveChen
./delete <which_message_by_number, (1 = last post, 2 = second last post, 3-- etc)
also, you can't delete old messages anyways
what it needs is a new RFC
something that defines IRC2
unless, you're a mod, but then again, if you're a mod, use the ajax chat
I'd just assume if you want 100% of the native stackoverflow functionality then you'd use the web interface, otherwise use IRC
or get a chatbot with commands, @kick, etc
05:09
mornng chaps
yeah, servers are highly programmable
mornin joe
hi Joe
private $x;
public function __construct($this->x=>$a){};
??
05:15
of does that confuse the differences between arrays and objects
@Jack Discussing Gordon's rfc
Reading ...
I would like to show the error in this page itself and prevent from navigating it to "welcome.php"??? — Shashank 6 mins ago
morning
I like it ... I'd probably like it more if it weren't 6am ... might start drugging my kids at night so I can ruddy sleep properly ...
I hate help vampires.
@JoeWatkins Infants or Teenagers :)
05:19
infants, so it'll definitely work ... not just give them a good time ...
@joewatkins twins?
one of them is 8 going on 15 ... the other is 4, and loud as fuck
I wonder how inheritance is going to work though.
@Jack I hope that syntax wouldn't inherit...
@Jack It precludes precondition checks in child classes.... it's behavior based on signature
@YogeshSuthar I won't be spoon feeding him
05:22
So in the child class you would just have __construct($x, $y, $z) and then parent::__construct($x, $y); ... guess that makes sense.
But I suppose if the properties on the parent were protected ...
Hi friends, i got error form paypal adaptive parallel payment in the past four days. its reporting the error as An error occurred while processing your request.

Reference #166.d90300cc.1379994588.2af42f0
@Orangepill @Jack @Mr.Alien @YogeshSuthar
In a way I think that if you have so many assignments in your constructor that the old syntax is an issue you have bigger problems.
@Saravanan Stop @Saravanan pinging @Saravanan random @Saravanan people.
@Saravanan Check out paypals docs. That should give you a clue as to where the problem is.
I just ignored my first person in chat... do I get a badge for that :D
@Mr.Alien It was not meant to you. Actually It was for my office colleague.
05:27
No, but maybe if you ignore 10 in a row? :)
@Saravanan Don't ping, throw your question here, if anyone knows, they will reply you
@Orangepill how :-/ which badge?
@Orangepill no badges for ignoring :p it's an outspoken badge
@YogeshSuthar mine was the same
has been awarded to Orangepill
Too bad my toast master badge proposal hasn't been picked up yet :)
I liked the bounty hunter badge proposal.... I would work hard for a bobba fett badge
@Mr.Alien I hate them because they even don't know how to create JSON data for their own need. BTW I completed Sleeping dogs. :)
05:31
@YogeshSuthar I had no time to play this week
@Mr.Alien It was my 1st game after 2-3 year. And last too until I learn iOS. Will resume with Assassins Creed. Sleeping dogs story was awesome. Last 4 missions were incredible.
@YogeshSuthar that is a good game since start
@Mr.Alien Yeah, but last 4 missons.muhhaaa
Hello guys.. when I use mail('[email protected]', 'My Subject', 'Hello'); how the receiver will know who send email? Why the function not specify who is the sender?
Cool huh?
By default it will choose something like [email protected] as the sender unless you override it.
05:37
hehe
You can manually add the From: header as the fourth argument I believe.
so if I will use it on my server it will find automatically my email? :/
Yeah, automagic baby!
how? I may have 2-3 emails
First of all, nothing is magical here.
05:39
@JAck what about __get, __set, and __call ... they are magic... says so in the docs
I deleted almost all 0 scored answers
Oh, you have to use the -f sendmail flags, otherwise sendmail will rewrite your From header.
@Orangepill They are magical ... I wasn't talking about PHP lol.
mail() is just a thin layer over sendmail (in most cases)
but they reduce 2 points for each deleted answer
? @Mr.Alien
@Mr.Alien don't delete them unless they are wrong
05:42
@Jack I think I will use phpmailer it seems easier to me
Or Swift.
or Zend
/me beats up @Orangepill ...
lol
@Jack its better?
@Jack I deleted old answers with 0 score, they deducted 2 points for each answer .. now they have a limit of 5 answers can be deleted per day, before it wasn't like that.. @Orangepill they were right, but I deleted as they were useless
05:43
@Jack you no like Zend_Mail?
It's all about preferences I guess ... I like Swift's feature set.
@Orangepill Just kidding ... I don't even know Zend Mail :)
@Jack will check it.. thanks
It's just one of those arguments you know ... A: phpMailer ... B: Swift ... C: Zend ... and then they both beat up C ;-)
Though, in this case, I have no reason to believe that Zend is a lousy choice.
@Jack It's well implemented pretty low level... configure your own transport. The components in zend are pretty solid.... they just tape them all together with spit and bad practices (1.x anyways)
Does it do encode-as-you-go attachments?
05:48
@Jack never used with attachments but I believe so..... let me check
@Jack phpmailer seems easier than swift for a beginner like me :) so I will choose php mailer.. maybe someday I will also like swift ;)
@xoemab Whatever works; I do believe they have examples on the site that should fit your needs.
@Jack Confirmed, it does
It didn't use to :)
But now you can pass a stream.
@JAck YEah... I was looking at 1.12 earlier versions may have sucked more :)
I usually link assets as opposed to embed them... it's good for multipart/alternative messages... haven't done any multipart/related ones
05:56
Yeah, but if you link to assets they will not show by default.
Whereas if they're attached in the body, it can be shown :)
Of course, it adds to the message weight.
@Jack I usually send about 80K a week... the content isn't really compelling enough to justify the added message weight. I let people opt out of downloading our design departments graphical treatment :)

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