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15:00
In much the same way as you can't read a medical dictionary and become a doctor, you need to do some stuff.
theory is not that useful
this is the type of answer that I was looking for, I will put it in my notes :)
I don't want to sound like that, and I am not like that also, but it is good to know more
I am doing the w3resource.com exercises, when I run out of practical things I will probably come back to what I was doing before (tube script), I understand that aspect too
this theory matters and it should pay off, I think
this is strictly mental work
more so than the one of a medical doctor
it should be getting together better, and this should be paying off
ok, but this does not matter
and again, I am doing the code examples there
on every page
I am not just reading what a function (lets say does) and go to the next - this in fact would not be making sense
these examples -> power
if I would do them all ----> power!!!
I can already see an improvement after a month and a half
I feel like, ok something needs to be done, lets do it, I can do it
I was watching some program on the tv today who "did not let the technology get ahold of her" or something like that
"don't let the php get ahold of you" :)
program on the tv about a person
nevermind, I will research that
thanks
so what works like that and what does not?
any rules
in general?
I mean, do rules like that exist / are written somewhere on the Net?
what does not connect with other built-in php functions?
Morning v2
15:15
@PeeHaa this release breaks BC with no significant improvements and I will not be upgrading. Please continue to maintain the v1 branch until one of us dies.
@DaveRandom That last clause admits a simple solution...
The question is. Which one :P
kill -9 $(pidof @PeeHaa)
gee tnx
hahahaha
Another reason I never really did the school thing seriously
All fake education
yeh, it sucks that some employers take that stuff so seriously, I got super-lucky in that regard
OMG OMG OMG WE GOT A FOOL IN OUR TRAP> HE WANTS TO COME WORK FOR US!!!!
Quick let him sign!
pretty much :-P
This may not be the best question / aspect overall, but:
$numbers = shuffle(range(11, 20));
shuffle() returns "bool(true)" in this case
15:31
it also emits an error
is there any reasoning behind this return not being assigned to $numbers in this case
it gives a notice and it does not assign
$numbers = "bool(true)"
imagine you have an array with 2000000 elements in it, what are the implications of returning the shuffled value?
maybe because it needs to be an array and it is not
and if this would not be required it would assign?
when you do $numbers = range(0, 2000000); shuffle($numbers); it would do just that
also if you have a lot to say then fine, but please stop pressing enter after every sentence. You can fit more than one sentence in a message, with the added benefit that it doesn't occupy the entire vertical space on the screen to fit your thoughts in...
@DaveRandom that would require them thinking about what they're going to say before they say it though.
15:34
I may be too particular about things, I guess I will wait and see how things work over time
@AaronSmith no, think about what would happen if you had an array with 2000000 elements in it. How much memory does that occupy? Now, what happens when shuffle() returns the shuffled values?
notably, what happens to the original input? does it disappear?
@Danack wait, people do that?
this may not be the best question overall, I will learn for a year or two, and I can come back to that, it may sound ridiculous or something like that...
I have to go over all this and see...
no point if discussing it here
I could probably come up with thousands of aspects like this too :)
or more...
@AaronSmith this is precisely my point. You do not need to understand everything to do something, in fact it's actively harmful to attempt to understand everything before you do something.
15:37
@AaronSmith yeah, I've worked with people like you. You need to learn to think things through inside your head, rather than spitting out a stream of consciousness. Not only is that annoying for other people, but having to think through talking/writing messages is much slower than thinking about things in your head.
Because you won't ever understand everything, so you will never do anything.
Seriously, think of a thing to do and do it.
in general, if people are experienced they would know how many built-in php functions joins
this would be more of an exception, or not really, something like this
but again, I don't need to involve everybody into "my going deeper on things"
I know 4 programming languages very well and a handful of others to a usable level. I have never sat down and "learned" any of them, I just started fucking about with them because I wanted to do a thing.
Evening room
sure, what do we know, we are just experienced professionals ;-)
no-one pays me to know stuff, they pay me to do things
quite a lot of the things I get asked to do I have no idea how to do until after I have done them
a significant number of the things I have done I have entirely forgotten how to do
I used to understand visual basic, ffs
(I'm not anxious to return to that state of affairs)
15:46
I want to do the theory, this is the building block of being good
to me, I may be wrong
this is how I see it now
good theory -> good quality, good speed
no theory, not as much
I want to pass the Zend exam too, so this will be a useful thing
I would hire somebody with hands on experience over anybody with just theory experience any day of the week
but again, no need to be theorizing here
The first is somebody who can make money. The latter is a code monkey
first theory then experience
all people i know don't memorize programming. facing problems made them
i query the documentation every minute basically
15:50
better preparation, I am anticipating better quality and possibly speed
Anticipate not getting hired
this is probably competitive or very competitive, well paying jobs
I am not the only person learning this
there's no point in memorizing functions, but i do know what to search if i need it
you have 100,000 php programmers, you can pick 10 the best
15:50
so the ones with no theory would get there, probably not?
You 100000 code monkeys
And 250000 cowboys
And 10000000 framework users
I am not doing that, I dong memorize functions, I read it and I work on the examples on every page and this produces good educational results
programmers not that many
also you are trying to memorize php functions that are known for being completely useless or old at best. told you that already
I am not memorizing this
15:51
of the array and string extension you are gonna use like 1% of functions
just reading
read once, it will be very easy to come back to anything again
and like I said, I want to specialize in PHP, do it the main thing for 10 or 20 years, maybe (from the current point of view)
do it good
and like I said, I have an opportunity to learn
well, the last thing that I was reading was Phar
I am not sure whether I will be using this at all, I've never heard about it before
so I get this part :)
15:53
i've never used phar, like most of us
some things are outdated and the man pages say that
but the examples are there
I go over them
"power" from this
watch the talk
I can tell
15:57
o/
I started watching this video some time ago, I don't remember it
programming is good
Internet, you can work from home also, money is good
ahh, much better
15:58
You cleared the viewport?
one of the best things to do currently, could be
good profession to be in, lawyer, medical doctor, programmer
not bad
Was thinking doing the same thing
@PeeHaa :D
15:58
write scripts, try to sell them online, start a biz from home - a doable thing
16:09
@AaronSmith perhaps I was being too subtle; you are being tediously boring by dumping your thoughts in here. You are going to have a shit life programming if you continue to do this, as everyone will ignore you.
He is the first guy I've put in my ignore list
@PeeHaa i did that yesterday, then i changed back as i want to keep an eye on him. i am a room owner now, with great power comes great responsibility :B
True :)
but y you put me in ignore list?
If he did that he wouldn't see that I guess :P
16:16
the worst thing about ignoring people is that you have other people seemingly speaking nonsense :B
he is an ass :D
hehehhe
HE CAN'T SEE IT, BUHAHA
i'm gonna put you in ignore again now
NOOO
16:18
@Saitama flagged
:p
@Linus ... you are a bad person then
like the other day @felix was talking among himself. took me a bit to understand what was going on :B
see, not ignoring me brings so much peace to mind
16:20
:P
No but seriously, why are you ignoring @Saitama?
I don't remember him causing any specific incidents?
i love programming talks that start with "a little bit of history"... 1970
he is disturbed by the frequent change of usernames, I have committed..
BUT HE FORGETS, that he did it as well... ;-;
Well I am also disturbed that anyone would choose to be @Saitama
@NikiC changes nick every month. i did that too but in my defense i was still recognizable as i didn't change the avatar at the same time, also i wasn't very active in the chat
and i had a serious reason to do that
16:25
and what was it?
That certainly seems like a rather frivolous reason to block someone ^^
@NikiC i just want to annoy him
see, see, I knew it...
he wants to watch the world burn
If you want to watch the world burn you have to make stronger efforts at setting it on fire.
Everybody in here does PHP. I would say we are working on it
16:28
well, I might just try to synthesize octanitrocubane for that...
@Saitama Unfortunately this will only have a very localized effect
god another bug. i try to be productive, but when i do i end up fixing bugs instead in order to proceed being productive :B
Fixing bugs is not productive?
@NikiC then, what sort of material would you suggest? :P
@WesStark lol
I also, one time, really talk among myself, for real
16:38
o/
Oh nice timing sires <3
@NikiC not strictly speaking :B
you want to do nice new things, end up fixing bugs..
oh god... blizzard pls stahp
16:42
@Saitama HAMMERTIME!
@Saitama Are you printing this as is in web context? github.com/SaitamaSama/LogZ/blob/master/src/functions.php#L99
17:31
@PeeHaa yes... and I know, its vulnerable af...
Well. it depends :P
thus the commit message said, improvise on the file content getter logic :P
What does the project do?
tail logs?
yeah, get the logs, parse, provide an api, and a separate frontend
kk
Use amphp/file for no blocking file access
17:35
mm, I need to get used to that async thing in PHP... I've thought about giving it a go many times, but always find that yield from ... ambiguous...
I mostly work with promises instead of generators though
Makes more sense in my apis
As in mostly just yield
oh, promises, as in JS...
Yeah, but amps promises are a bit differentish. But basically same thing
might look into promises, if amphp provides such an interface...
@PeeHaa +1
promises do indeed make more sense to me, any where else I've used it
Yeah
17:48
@MadaraUchiha are you 10th tail?
@PeeHaa Well, both, just on boundaries it's promises?
Yes
The API
Also parts of the internal apis
18:09
\o
@PeeHaa Everything just uses Amp\call(function () use ($arg1, $arg2, ...) { ... }); in my apps.
yeap
Makes for a much nicer api
what if private for classes etc., but qualified
private(\Symfony), private(.), private(..), private(..\..)
I would prefer internal for that over private
18:18
that might be a better word!
see also: C#
dafuq
my keyboard has gone US I think
s/US/retard
@Andrea not a fan of . or .. though
@DaveRandom yeah, not pretty :/
there's really no need for it anyway
18:21
internal(Foo\Bar\Baz)
refactoring tools are a thing
yeah
@Andrea I'd be OK with relative namespacing for sub-namespaces (i.e. requiring \ for absolute)
actually I dunno
hmmm
ugh, can we just introduce package or sth and then it can just be internal :-P
@DaveRandom then a class wouldn't be accessible in its own namespace, which would be… weird
@DaveRandom yes
18:23
stuff like this works in C# because it's naturally delimited by binary boundaries
mm
hah I could do the lazy thing, require every file to specify its package at the top
@Andrea what's that?
people would definitely absolutely love me for that and surely not hate me at all
<?php
declare(strict_types=1);
namespace Symfony\Thing\Bar;
package Symfony\Thing;
well doesn't even need that, just default to an "empty package"
the future is beautiful,
18:26
namespace Symphony\Thing::Bar;
sub-namespace Bar in the Symphony\Thing package
@DaveRandom that was the other thing I was thinking, what if you could mark, within the namespace, the package boundary
maybe double backslash or something
namespace Symfony\Thing\\OtherThing
I think something more visibly obvious/less typo-able, but yeh
namespace MyAwesomePdfLib\PdfA\\Vector;
far too easy to typo, not obvious to see
mm
feels too hacky anyway
maybe we just need like, declare_package()
and Composer can call it or something
are unknown declare() tokens ignored or do they explode?
explode
18:31
!!> declare(bollocks=1); echo 'test';
[ 5.6.0 - 5.6.30, 7.0.0 - 7.2.0beta3 ] Warning: Unsupported declare 'bollocks' in /in/7nJok on line 1 test
slight explode. only a warning
ignorable warning > explosion probably
but mind you, the internal qualifier would cause an explosion anyway so
right
I dunno though, I don't mind Symphony\Thing::Bar
18:32
mm
feels better than all that repetion of names, anyway
PHP's namespacing/file structure is very ad-hoc
can someone explain me? :B
these days it's de facto managed by Composer but the language itself says nothing about the rules beyond files that say they're in a particular namespace are
composer/psr-4 may as well be part of the language spec at this point
18:36
heh
namespace Symfony\Foo\{Bar}
could reuse this concept from use, but that might cause confusion
collides with the multi-use thing tho, visually if not syntactically that ^
exactly
namespace Symfony\Foo\\\Bar // <-- troll option
I'd like # but stupid perl comments :-/
Perhaps @
oh god
thing with @ though is that people are used to it working the other way round with emails and things
although like I say :: seems reasonable, it's semantically similar to what it currently means
it sort of means "member of"
18:39
I can see that
I'm sort of wary of overloading its meaning though
namespace Symfony\Foo[Bar]
I'm sure people would hit the roof at Package<Sub\Ns>
namespace Symfony\Foo->Bar
hahaha
ooh wait
package Symfony\Foo;
namespace Bar;
Yeh I thought about that
two separate statements, though :/
package Symfony\Foo namespace Bar; :p
dunno though, feels kinda crappy to change the semantics of namepace based on the presence of another decl
18:41
yeah
I wish English had a preposition like in but that worked the other way round
I don't have any fundamental objection to two statements, a lot of files have a crapload of use decls already
There are a few files in some projects where the first actual line of code is legitimately about L25
namespace Bar in Symfony\Foo; would be better if English worked like namespace Symfony\Foo in Bar;
nite all
namespace Symfony\Foo's Bar; (don't do this)
@Andrea One good thing here is that because it's in a namespace decl, there is almost no issue with syntactic ambiguity with pretty much anything
18:43
ooh wait
namespace Symfony\Foo containing Bar;
that's also a huge problem in the context of getting internals to actually agree on something enough for a vote to pass
@Andrea please no
yeah
and I don't want to break things if I can help it anyway
@DaveRandom yeah
eh
separate package file specifying constituent namespaces?
or that
alternatively: class Bar\Thing {}
18:45
oooh
where namespace == package
that's not a bad idea
currently invalid syntax too so no breakage
I don't like it because it breaks continuity
continuity?
If you take an existing library that is not packaged, it would mean moving part of the namespaces into the class declaration. That kind of change should not be necessary
18:47
yeah
it also gets a bit weird w.r.t psr-4
the cleanest way to do things is probably to add some sort of hook Composer can call to declare a package
and also hypothetical non-Composer-using projects of course
Part of autoloading?
@NikiC well, not exactly, because it could all be loaded manually. but I imagine Composer would put it in autoload.php for you
Anyway, I missed what the end goal here is supposed to be ^^
18:49
package-private members
and potentially package-private classes
the latter sounds better to me than the former :p
Could just say the top-level namespace is the package :P
@Andrea internal functions do occasionally make sense (stuff like internal prop setters)
@NikiC that'd make all my packages internal to eachother :D
@Andrea Yeah
18:52
<?php
vendor Amphp;
project Amp;
package Dns;
namespace Protocol;
// trololol
But what's important is that the pleb can't use it :P
4
Hi, I am working in a progressive image loading (lazy loading). I supposed to make small image for any uploaded image. How much I should resize the image So it can be tiny and small. I am thinking about width of 30px and auto height.
@NikiC configure how top-level using php.ini
@Andrea ...
@NikiC :D
18:54
@Andrea You have the worst ideas :P
@NikiC I try.
...and that's saying something. @brzuchal comes in here as well.
@abdallaarbab that really depends on how you intend to display it... make it the correct size for your display area. Also tinypng.com is a great tool for reducing the size (in bytes rather than dimensions) of images.
oh I know
namespace Symfony\Foo/Bar;
namespace _\o/_;
var_dump(_\o/_) already valid tho
well, it would only mean something within namespace statements
but it was also a joke
sometimes I come up with outrageously bad ideas just to see if anyone will take them seriously
“and that's how we got PHP 7— audience boos
18:59
I am using intervention.io.I will resize the image in my server

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