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11:00 AM
Does anyone know what the big windows 10 update is all about? My home PC is taking its time getting it sorted
Also the stupid thing in which windows seems to think "Update and Shut Down" really means "Update and just stay idle at the login screen"
 
Major updates have always done that, it's part of the update process, it has a load of stuff to do on first boot so it restarts and then forgets you told it to shit down
 
Anonymous
11:16 AM
@DaveRandom I hate it when windows shits up
 
I don't know how you can all just carry on like nothing has happened
 
Anonymous
What's happened?
 
laravel
 
what about it?
 
Anonymous
user image
2
 
11:21 AM
I have to work with it
17 hours ago, by Joe Watkins
my world got darker today
 
Wes
@JoeWatkins look at the bright side, you can tell anyone how bad it is, in detail :B
 
@JoeWatkins legacy or greenfield? If the latter, not too bad if you avoid most of it
If legacy... put a post-it with the number of your local suicide hotline on your monitor
 
@JoeWatkins please tell me that you have to also work with code that has already been written in laravel by others
preferably - junior developers
 
@tereško I do
 
:D
isn't it wonderful, you can have a first-hand experience of "laravel community"
 
Wes
11:29 AM
if i were forced to work with laravel, i would destroy the community from the inside :B this sucks, change this, change that :B
 
that's not how communities work
if you that, you identify yourself as being in the "out group", and all your options get automatically labeled as "toxic" or jsut "wrong"
 
Hi All,
 
Wes
@tereško are you sure? look what they did to php. they've been successful at that :B
 
I think I identified myself as in the out group when the second thing I said to the group was "I hate laravel" ...
and then I started to review existing code ...
and now I'm wondering, how I got here ...
 
@JoeWatkins mortgage
 
Wes
11:32 AM
for instance just a bunch of people made ircmaxell leave again
 
I have application in Symfony2 and integrated FOSUserBundle within it. But for 2 days, User Login process became too much slow. It takes 5-7 minutes to login. Can anyone pls let me know why Login is taking 5-8 Minutes?
 
Wes
also nikic is obviously always pissed by some people in the community
just one person and the quiet disappears :B
 
@Wes that was more of a case of him having a meltdown ... blame Randi
 
@tereško s/*/rent/
 
even worse
 
11:33 AM
still, why me, why laravel and why me ...
 
is it company policy or you have an ability to change it?
 
all the arguments I try to avoid having in my spare time are now going to have to happen at work ...
 
:D welcome to the club
 
I could change it, but it's a production application already
 
@JoeWatkins Hide laravel behind a facade
 
11:35 AM
omg, omfg
 
well, refactoring, isolating the framework from the application, codebase improvement
 
@JoeWatkins just teach the team proper OOP and flag facades, eloquent etc in code reviews
 
depending on the size of project, you could do it in 3 to 12 months
 
the framework shouldn't really matter if the application is written properly (decoupled from it)
 
@Patrick that's not how laravel tutorials teach you
 
11:36 AM
@tereško i know, that's why he has to teach them
 
oh, this is the real world, so they chose to use laravel idioms (like facades), like magical global functions, like eloquent ... not even an attempt to decouple from the framework
 
@GopalJoshi use something like xdebug
are you the lead dev? Teach them the proper way and the codebase will improve over time*
* will take a couple of years
 
@JoeWatkins well, now you will know why some of use hate frameworks so much
 
I'm not lead, but I can take the lead ... I can reject code the lead wrote ... I review all code before it's deployed, we tried this on another project and it produced some really nice code, really quite fast ...
 
looks at it as an opportunity to gain new insight in the general skill level of people, who program in php
@JoeWatkins what is the skill level of the team lead?
 
11:41 AM
@JoeWatkins sounds like I fun project. I actually really enjoy helping a project moving from legacy to clean code.
I'm sure you were put into that position for a reason :)
 
it is, very rewarding, I just never saw laravel coming ...
 
why would you be surprised
 
I didn't know it was being used
 
.. and you forgot to ask
 
it's the new codeigniter
 
11:42 AM
now i can also feel coupling of larvavel :( written by someone else
 
@Patrick with majority of the sample people in the "community" .. ones that position themselves as "developers with 10 years of experience"
 
@tereško I almost went down that path after moving on from codeigniter... i don't want to think about what would have happened if I didn't find r11 at that time...
 
:)
 
changing minds is just so difficult, you can lay out a logical argument for why they shouldn't be doing X, but they are not doing X for logical reasons, they're doing out of some kind of loyalty to the gang, or because of ignorance ... you can't argue with most framework fans, they have the one true way of programming, for emotional or otherwise than logical reasons
 
Anonymous
You can fuck right off instagram.com/p/BTGi5wGDFFz
 
11:49 AM
are you drunk @Jay ?
 
@JoeWatkins From my experience appear to authority works really well in those cases. Refer to books like clean code etc
Some guys will take it a little too far and hang on to every word written in there, but that's still much better than the alternative
Also works with other stuff, like introducing DDD
 
Anonymous
@JoeWatkins who lets their cat do that!?
 
Anonymous
It can suckle on its own ear thanks.
 
Hey guys, quick question. What result does PHP return if you fetch a MySQL "SELECT" row but no rows were returned?
 
@Patrick DDD is a really big jump and in 99.99% of project it only creates additional complexity without any benefits
 
11:52 AM
@ProgrammerGirl row count will return zero, iterating the result set will emit no rows
 
@ProgrammerGirl PDO::fetchAll() returns an empty array
 
Which driver are you using and why do you ask?
 
So it will return "0"? Not null or false?
 
@DaveRandom Jason Statham
 
@tereško it's not that big of a jump (if you don't go full ES and CQRS). But was just an example of where I got appeal to authority to work
 
11:53 AM
Using PEAR ducks
 
@ProgrammerGirl which function?
 
Anonymous
@PeeHaa hahah
 
@ProgrammerGirl don't
 
@ProgrammerGirl wat
 
Not my system...!
Using $resultSet->fetchRow(DB_FETCHMODE_ASSOC);
 
11:54 AM
then it is not your problem
otherwise, read the source and start migrating away from PEAR
 
@ProgrammerGirl It should behave exactly as it would on the last iteration of a query which returned rows
 
Any ideas what $resultSet would return with the above if no rows are returned?
 
whether it does I don't know, I have never used that API
 
check the unit tests?
 
Wes
is there any reason to use pdo and other drivers' multiple rowsets functionality, rather than running separate queries? Dave? @Ocramius ?
 
11:56 AM
I'll test it out and see what it returns. Thanks!
 
@Wes multiple? rowsets?
 
null coalescing operator failing with SplFixedArray – #74478
 
@Wes generally it's only relevant with stored procedures
 
Wes
@PeeHaa multiple rowsets
$query = "SELECT * FROM a;
SELECT * FROM b;"
 
11:57 AM
Most drivers don't actually let you do that ^
 
@Wes to do this in MySQL, you have to enable emulation for prepares
 
@Wes That doesn't work
 
You can do it with mysqli
(but in general, don't)
 
pdo doesn't allow multiquery at all afaik
 
11:59 AM
I do it in desktop apps sometimes but the considerations are different there
 
Wes
i just wondered if that had a purpose :B why would i do (or desire to do :B) that rather than running separate queries?
 
You can use it to reduce network round-trips, and specifically with SQL Server it can help with query cache optimisation (maybe other engines as well, never looked into it)
 
Wes
so basically it's useless :B
especially since it doesn't work :B
 
so.. i'll interview a guy for front-end today.. :|
 
If you have a stored procedure which emits multiple result sets then you need it, you probably wouldn't use it for anything else in the average PHP app
Plus stored procedures are generally not good things to have
 
Wes
12:02 PM
indeed
 
@pmmaga ask him what he thinks about BEM vs OOCSS
 
@tereško can you also tell me the right answer? :P
 
Anonymous
twitter.com/taylorotwell/status/851243875649806336 - nice strong argument he's used there
 
Wes
@pmmaga both are crap :B
 
@Patrick It's working fine in dev environment on my local apache server. But, It's taking long time in production env on live server. My code base is fine as it is taking 2-3 seconds to login in dev server
 
12:06 PM
@pmmaga OOCSS uses multiple classes on an element, where each class has a specific purpose (kinda like what bootstrap does, but with less stupid nameming). BEM instead uses highly specific class name for each element (using notation {block}_{element__{modifier} naming schema).
in OOCSS you get a very flexible CSS, but it basically demands to have a "living styleguide", because it is somewhat fragile
 
Wes
bem people are crazy
 
@tereško nice thanks! i can actually build a conversation around that. if he can tell me adv/disadv of each it is a good sign
 
using BEM you get really large CSS files with many duplications, but the code is very stable (and it has a huge benefit from using "silent classes" in SCSS)
 
@Wes so as an example of somewhere I have used it before: I have a query which populates a table var from a pretty expensive query which does aggregated computation on 10s of millions of rows, I then use the same data in the generated table to generate 3 different views of the same data, it's a hell of a lot more efficient to just do it all in one operation and emit 3 result sets
 
Wes
that indeed makes sense @DaveRandom
 
12:09 PM
@pmmaga I would also ask him what he thinks about "build pipelines" : gulp, grunt, webpack
 
neo
any database experts here to give an advice on reducing number of calls made ?Lets say a user have subscribed to 10,000 topics so when a user logins I want to check his entire subscribed topics and sort his feed in increasing order of number of new topics.This makes me call 10000 queries on a single user.Any idea to reduce the number of calls ?
 
Could also be done with a "proper" connection-scoped temp table but a) that massively increases disk I/O and slows the whole thing down a lot and b) it's in a pooled connection scenario and the pool logic would get a lot more complicated
 
has he used any (if he knows SASS/SCSS, then he will have used some)
 
@tereško BEM is that thing that makes you html look like puke and 9 times as heavy right? cc @Wes
 
Wes
correct
 
12:11 PM
@pmmaga also you can ask him what he thinks about CSS frameworks, for example comparing Compass and Bourbon - they have completely different approaches)
 
@GopalJoshi sounds like you need a proper dev setup...
 
@tereško i'm probably going with the fundamentals afterwards, HTTP req/resp, HTTP caching, common performance pitfalls, etc..
 
caching :D
@pmmaga is he expected to also know JS?
 
@tereško yeah, but there will be a JS guy asking him about it before me
thankfuly :P
 
you can ask about his impressions about ES6/ES2015 features and is there anything he really likes in those
(most people will mention "modules", "object deconstruction" or "new function syntax")
 
12:16 PM
also a good idea
 
@Patrick I have coordinated with server administrator. Seems like it's server hand issue. They are trying to figureout the issue
 
@Wes it takes a true artisan to come up with stuff like that.
 
@Wes they are confusing "short syntax" with "readable code"
 
@Wes What the shit is this?
 
lol
 
12:38 PM
$product->id
 
Wes
261 likes, 76 retweets
 
Security-wise, is this okay'ish? i.e. will a user be able to run it several times and try to find a pattern or no? stackoverflow.com/questions/48124/…
 
@Wes Stahp it. I have seen anough of that crap yesterday
 
@PeeHaa HAMMERTIME!
 
(for the marked answer, that is)
 
12:42 PM
@Austin depends on how random your random is
 
function generateRandomString($length = 10) {
    $characters = 'ABCDEFGHIJKLMNPQRSTUVWXYZ123456789';
    $charactersLength = strlen($characters);
    $randomString = '';
    for ($i = 0; $i < $length; $i++) {
        $randomString .= $characters[rand(0, $charactersLength - 1)];
    }
    return $randomString;
}
 
66
A: Generating a random password in php

Scott ArciszewskiTL;DR: Use RandomLib. If you can't use RandomLib, use random_int() and the given random_str(). If you don't have random_int(), use random_compat. Explanation: Since you are generating a password, you need to ensure that the password you generate is unpredictable, and the only way to ensure t...

 
@Jeeves Stahp
 
@Linus HAMMERTIME!
@Linus So, what will you teach me?
 
@Jimbo Doesn't answer OP :P
 
12:47 PM
shit
 
:-)
 
1:02 PM
hello
 
Wes
it's snowing again
literally 3 days ago i was in a t-shirt
...
omg summer is here!.... no
 
where do you live?
 
Anonymous
6 hours ago, by DaveRandom
user image
 
I have a class named State which stores the user state and it has a function to store the device type. A function detectDevice() is used to find the type of the device the user is running. It's dependent on the Mobile_Detect class (mobiledetect.net).
 
@JayIsTooCommon yes, but close to the fingertips or on the pulse? :P
 
1:15 PM
Should the detectDevice() function itself create an object of the Mobile_Detect class?
 
@CoderDudeTwodee Sounds like you need something else that populates that State object, separate the owner from the 'getter'
 
Wes
@pmmaga north east italy, between austria and slovenia
 
@Jimbo Can you be a bit more clear?
 
@CoderDudeTwodee It sounds like you need another, separate object, that retrieves the state and populates the 'State' object. The State object itself shouldn't be responsible for figuring out itself if you get the state from an external source
 
@Jimbo Like DI?
 
1:18 PM
@CoderDudeTwodee No... not yet...
StateFactory::__construct(DeviceDetector $detector) ... StateFactory::createFromDetectedDevice() : State { ... }
But that's just right off the top of my head. You immediately gain something responsible for building your state, something separate (that can be tested) for detecting the device, and a State that just holds... state..
 
Wes
i thought you gave up static constructors @Jimbo :D
 
:: !== static ;)
 
Wes
aaaaaaah :P
 
But you're right, I still don't like them. Just DI your factory dammit
 
The way you say this seems to suggest you've opened up too many programs on the operating table and seen nothing but spaghetti
"Dammit man, why didn't he just DI.."
 
1:27 PM
@Sean Too many that don't know what a factory is :'(
It's different where I am now, these are a good bunch of people who care and want to learn :)
 
omw
 
lol, we are hiring btw..
Oh you could join my team! ;)
 
Anonymous
@Wes I just had some ready made pasta.
 
@Jimbo yeah, especially since what you showed there was a Builder and not a Factory
 
Wes
ready made?
 
1:28 PM
@tereško Hold on.. builder can be a replacement for optional parameters
That was just a single method named well in the factory
There wouldn't be multiple methods, just a clearly named method, not just 'create'
 
why would you hardcode your method to the class name of a dependency?
 
Because it's not an abstract factory?
 
wait .. no, it's not even a dependency, since you are passing it an instance whose only purpose if to be used to extract the actual dependency
 
4k screen for 15" dev laptop
 
@tereško Well a factory can use whatever it needs to create an object right?
 
1:31 PM
Like, I can save £200 if I go for 1920x1080
 
@Jimbo yes, sure, but Demeter would object
 
But yeah I cannot physically move my laptop anymore :P
 
Hmm, am I reaching through multiple levels of another object?
public function createFromDetectedDevice() { return new State($this->deviceDetector->detect()); }
Obviously a tiny bit more checks
 
I don't think that's violating demeter.
you're calling a method on a dependency, and using it to construct a dependency (which is the purpose of the method)...
 
1:35 PM
since it is in no way affected by the "factory", I would say that it is violating
@Leigh you want 3440x1440 - trust me™
 
grumble
also it's touchscreen at that res, which I don't need
(looking at a factory refurbished dell xps 15
they have an additional 10% off today
 
Each unit should have only limited knowledge about other units: only units "closely" related to the current unit.
Each unit should only talk to its friends; don't talk to strangers.
Only talk to your immediate friends.
Which one do you think it is violating?
 
@Leigh IIRC @Ocramius? really liked that thing
 
oh .. wait ... laptop?
you really think you need a laptop, @Leigh?
 
yea laptop
not going to carry my full tower around with me
or my 21:9 ultrawide :D
 
1:39 PM
is this one of those "want" or "need' things?
 
want more than need, but nice to have over nothing at all
my old laptop is horrible to use, going to donate it to someone
I go to a fair amount of meetups and conferences, so, nice to have
 
in that case, 1080p is a must, touchscreen is pointless, and since you can offload some of the computation to your main machine
 
also 1080p will give better battery life over 4k
 
you dont need a 4k laptop
it's pointless
 
2:10 PM
On the contrary, it's pointfull! runs away
 
Hi, Need help in drupal 8
Anybody know how to disable custom module cache disable...?
please help me
 
Mercurial does not like whitespace changes, jeeeeez.
 
2:35 PM
@Leigh er.. I'm on vacation, can't tell ya. I think Ori likes to go there though
He's our VP of marketing who knows better than me how the kernel works
 
Cast error from String to Int – #74480
usleep with large numbers – #74479
segfault getimagesize using zip:// stream – #74481
 
!!lxr usleep
 
[ /win32/time.c#102 ] PHPAPI int usleep(unsigned int useconds)
 
2:50 PM
Usage: !!reminder [ examples | list | <text> [ at <time> | in <delay> ] | unset <id> ] Try !!reminder examples
 
The usleep() bug is simply a 32-bit int overflow
 
Have a look at the time again, yo!
Reminder 36725015 is set.
 
That's a limitation of the underlying usleep(3), and I would argue that you shouldn't use usleep() to sleep for that kind of time anyway (if you are sleeping for 12 hours, millisecond precision doesn't really matter and is not reasonable to expect anyway)
nevertheless it is, technically, a legitimate bug that PHP could do something about (emulate) in 64-bit environments
 
@DaveRandom for #74480 I don't understand your explanation. They're claiming the actual result is:
string(12) "122994595930"
int(2147483647)
PHP clamps to MAX_INT ?
 
2:57 PM
Yes, that is the expected result with an (int) cast for a number >MAX_INT
He says his expected result is float(122994595930)
var_dump(is_int((int)"122994595930"))
If that returns anything other than true, it would be a major wtf
 
Dan
Why for does github not ask for my credentials?
 
Because you are already signed in...?
 
Dan
I try to do anything with a private repo, it gives back not found and that's all; no credentials prompt, nothing.
 
@Dan Who are you?
:P
 
Dan
Lmao
o/
 
3:00 PM
\o :D
 
@Dan in the web UI?
or on the command line?
 
@kelunik Ugh, sorry, I'm bad at staging too.
 
Missing validation of date in DateTime::createFromFormat – #74482
 
I need more coffee…
 
Dan
@DaveRandom Command line
I've got an open session in web
I'm trying to juggle two accounts though; this is a real pain in the fuck
 
3:02 PM
@DaveRandom something something E_WARNING and Improved error suppression operator
 
Dan

@DaveRandom's Mom is a stand up gal

May 28 '15 at 12:30, 1 minute total – 5 messages, 4 users, 3 stars

Bookmarked May 28 '15 at 12:32 by Dan

This is who I am.
 
git remote -v
or are you trying to clone?
 
Dan
It's correct; the remotes
Was trying to push, but now I can't see them at all (clone, etc)
 
@Dan The bunny ears already gave it away
 
@Dan It is to stop information being revealed. They deliberately give back a response that doesn't differentiate between 'no repo' and 'no access rights'.
 
3:03 PM
So firstly I would say: just fucking use SSH
secondly, clear your DNS cache
thirdly, do you have 2FA enabled?
 
Dan
Fuck the fucking SSH.
No 2FA
 
Dan
Grr, fine; SSH it is
Easier to juggle keys than credentials/sessions
@Danack Fair enough, but it was working until yesterday afternoon
 
Literally every problem with git remotes I have ever had has been solved by "just use SSH"
LITERALLY EVERY ONE
 
@Patrick I finally watched the last two episodes before getting to work.
my life is a wreck, but hey, at least I'm up to date in the expanse
 
Dan
3:06 PM
SSH and 2FA and retina scanning... ARE WE SO PARANOID!?
 
@Dan also you should do something about this
 
@DaveRandom Just one?
 
Dan
@DaveRandom Eff that, not bothering.
 
brb, hacking @Dan's github and replacing all source files with pictures of moose in suggestive poses
 
3:08 PM
brb, hacking Dan's github and replacing all source files with pictures of moose in suggestive poses
 
poop np twitter link in profile
 
Anonymous
what are they trying to suggest @DaveRandom ?
 
That us canadians sure know how to handle a moose
 
(•_•)
( •_•)>⌐■-■
(⌐■_■)
 
Dan
3:18 PM
@DaveRandom 2014 peaked right around there
Pretty much a backslide thereafter
May 8 '14 at 12:06, by DaveRandom
@DanLugg I shall cross out the word "canada" on my globe and write in "acme acres"
That right there, is the reason I'll never forget room 11
Also fucking SSH works of course
 
3:31 PM
minor: GitHub Pages builds are temporarily paused for unscheduled maintenance. GitHub Pages sites remain available as of 2017-04-20T15:31:36Z
 
lol, @DaveRandom really delivered on that hacking @Dan's github
 
Dan
@FélixGagnon-Grenier No he didn't, he's a big ole' liar.
On an unrelated note, I have all these repos named MOOSE-FUCK-23 for some reason now
 
:D
I wonder how this will unfold
well, it was to be expected, but this slight change in color shades already started impacting some users hormonal brain feedbackFélix Gagnon-Grenier 1 min ago
 
Evenings o/
 
Anonymous
3:38 PM
@FélixGagnon-Grenier fack.
 
:D
it's about time people on meta realize they are not safe anymore
 
3:53 PM
so, @FélixGagnon-Grenier, how's your angualrjs thing going?
 
@tereško I kinda abandoned solving the scope thing
 
there is nothing to solve
 
the "controller" I am looking at is the result of a long, enduring journey towards unmaintainability, so I found the path of least resistance
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier What did you mean about the service last night?
I was drunk and fell to sleep.
 

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