« first day (1997 days earlier)      last day (2951 days later) » 

9:00 PM
=/ its easier to go listen to the birds
let them think what they want.. your cool guy Joe, but you cant spend all your premium sleep time helping everyone out
Also.. one cant control other peoples mind.. they might think you are arrogant asshole after your helpfully helped them
and now.. gn
 
nn ronni
my main point was that considering what you are involved in, and to what degree you are involved, is probably a smart thing to do ... even if I done that now, and I got involved in nothing else, I would still be spread too thin ... so I'll just keep juggling ...
until I explode ... I guess ...
or until
 
heh
sounds like a bad plan
 
I have spawned enough internals devs to take on some of the work :D
 
Do you ever think, why do I put myself in these situations?
zzzz
 
other people make me think that ... like this evening ... but it's automatic, sleep, eat, code, sleep, eat, code ... every new thing just gets put into the cycle somewhere with some random priority, until it's broken ...
nn
 
9:10 PM
me can relate to that cycle
 
hello guys
today i was looking for a way to escape a String in php. I found out that the suggested PDO::quote does not work. I cannot make prepared statement because i have a for look inserting all the values. Any ideas?
 
can you remind us why you can't make a prepared statement?
 
i dont know exactly the number of fields in the table in mysql and there is a for loop for all fields. Some fields contain int, enums, floats so i guess bind_param needs to define what exactly the field should take
so how is this possible?
 
@Ekin that cycle === life
@helldawg13 urm ...
I don't know how that happens ...
 
how happens what exactly?
 
9:16 PM
> i dont know exactly the number of fields in the table
isn't it your table ?
 
lets say that i have around 600 columns in the table
so in order not to create bind_params for each and everyone of them
 
I am here
 
wait, do you really mean columns ?
 
yes
 
9:19 PM
@Ekin name sounds turkish to me
 
correct
 
turkish or azeri?
 
the former
 
added you on twitter
nice to see you here. I am from turkey too.
 
nice to see you as well Midori
 
9:23 PM
thx
 
@JoeWatkins indeed it is. I do think though, that breaking the cycle is often one's decision
 
emm .. didn't "midori" mean blue/green?
 
yes
it's japanese.
 
Final properties... sigh...
 
@LeviMorrison not my fault ...
if we ignore the bad thing, it will go away ...
 
9:32 PM
I'm fine with the idea - just not "final"
Just allow consts to be defined a single time, whether it is compile time or runtime.
 
I'm not buying the reasoning, and can't think of any ...
 
:D
 
@helldawg13 that's your first problem ...
it's not just too many fields, it's too many of nearly anything ... if you came to me with a chicken based problem, and said "I have these 600 chickens", I would say "that's too many chickens", but if you came to me and said "I have these 10 chickens", we could talk ...
 
Mar 30 at 18:22, by Joe Watkins
but if I hold a vote and ask people "Which is bigger, a grape, or a gorilla?" and they choose "grape" ... that doesn't make it so ...
just spotted that :D
 
9:40 PM
@PhilSturgeon I can be a smart ass :)
 
@JoeWatkins there's a difference between "here are two options, chose nonsense or fact." and "here are a few things, that to some people feel correct and some others thing the other".
its like "what is the meaning of life" vs "point at the blue ball"
:p
the problem is you can ask a bunch of people which is correct and they'll give you different answers. there is no true answer, just opinions.
public int $foo, $bar; to me should absolutely be int $bar, but thats due to my time spent in Go, and my hope that we dont have to dumb things down for PHP beginners
 
there's also grape ape, so the argument is invalid
 
@PhilSturgeon there are valid justifications for doing it a particular way in a particular language
they are only valid when applies to a specific language, it doesn't make sense to compare it to java, c# or anything else statically typed
 
@JoeWatkins so what exactly are you suggesting?
 
@helldawg13 less chickens
@PhilSturgeon anyway, this isn't worth loosing the feature over ...
 
9:47 PM
@JoeWatkins right, but you saying something should be done in a certain way for a certain language is based on a bunch of opinions that the next person with just as much knowledge and experience as you would disagree with.
 
not should be done but is done ...
 
im not saying "It's like this in Go so it should 100% be like this here", im saying these are opinion based choices which have no correct answer
both, lol
 
it doesn't matter ...
 
@helldawg13 You need to either do introspection on the type of data your columns expect, or you need to switch to a DB adapter that doesn't require you to know this information, or you need to reconsider your design. The last is the more correct of these options, but is probably also the most difficult. Good luck....
 
like the consistency argument: "obviously it should work the same as visibility" and the response of "well they're different things" will make 100% sense to one and zero sense to another
so long as we're all remembering that this is a tough one with pros and cons to all approaches and not one true answer that some muppets arent noticing :D
 
9:49 PM
but there are facts bearing on these things, not everything is an opinion ...
 
not everything is an opinion, but most of this feature is.
 
what an access modifier is, and what a type is, we are not deciding here, nobodies opinion of what those things are changes what they actually are, what they are are two very different constraints, in every sense of the word ... the argument that they are often found on the same line is not seriously persuasive is it ? that's essentially the argument, if you want to bundle type and access modifier together ...
that's a non argument ...
anyway, none of this really matters ...
what really matters is that we have totally killed performance of foreach
we'll do the decls the way they want them, it doesn't matter ...
if I had a solution to the foreach thing, I wouldn't be sitting here telling you about it ...
I can't see a way out ...
I'm gonna get bob and niki to brainstorm with me tomorrow @PhilSturgeon
we'll probably come up with something ...
once we solved this, I'll change the parser stuff ... this is stable, even if slow ..
 
10:07 PM
@JoeWatkins I missed something - what killed foreach performance?
 
the lookup for the info, which we can cache elsewhere ...
 
The lookup happens on each iteration or something?
 
there's nowhere to put the cache, because you need a slot for every key, or at least every key that names declared property ... and for every property that is not declared you have to do the lookup if there is no cache slot anyway ...
@LeviMorrison yeah for each key, on fetch
 
If you select two entities with doctrine using a join how do you get it to return both entities in one array? At the moment if the query returns 2 rows it will return an array with 4 elements, the first and 3rd element being the first entity and the 2nd and 4th elements being the second entity. I would like it to return an array with two elements and each element has two arrays, one for the first entity and one for the 2nd
 
@JoeWatkins So example:
foreach ($objectThatIsNotTraversable as $key => $value) {

}
Why does $key incur the property type check?
 
10:16 PM
right now it doesn't, we haven't got to that yet ... right now we are just doing null check, but we need to lookup prop info for $objectThatIsNotTraverable->$key if the class has prop types ...
it will also incur the check if $objectEtc->$key is typed ... but that's more problems because needs another cache slot
 
@MadaraUchiha no, we do not
 
the fact is that the cache will rarely be used, you would have to iterate over the same object twice in the same function to hit the cache ...
but with no possibility to cache it, it's not acceptable, I don't think ...
and this obviously implies that there is some degradation in performance of foreach, when properties have types ...
we kinda expect that ..
 
Using the wrong variables is quite fun… bah…
 
got any ideas for caching in fe_fetch_r @bwoebi ?
do brainstorming, say things, even if they seem unreasonable ...
I got nothin ...
 
I think objects in foreach (without traversable) are quite rare…
don't think we need to cache there
 
10:30 PM
really ?
 
well, especially typed ones…
 
is this you saying unreasonable things, or you really don't think we need to cache there ?
 
the latter
also, I can't imagine any meaningful caching there too
I guess adding caching there would create more overhead than it actually saves
 
I love all the things you're saying
 
cache miss rates of 50% and more aren't fun
@JoeWatkins why? does it make your life easier? haha :-D
 
10:32 PM
that's true, it would be totally shit ...
 
@JoeWatkins If it's not by reference, why?
 
I didn't think about that ... just thought must do caching ...
@LeviMorrison we have to know if typed in order to do null check, also, we have to perform type checking on reads, because magic ...
 
I guess I don't understand the magic ^_^
 
/me doing things ... github.com/php/php-src/compare/… \cc @Andrea
 
@LeviMorrison well it's simply the fact the value you wrote isn't necessarily the one you read ...
that simple fact is because magic, but that's easy enough to get ...
 
10:37 PM
@bwoebi :D
Oh no, now I have to write an RFC
 
@Andrea hehe :-)
 
trying to understand this diff
@bwoebi what I don't understand is why you still have assignment_pair
 
@Andrea to avoid usage of T_LIST in arrays
[] = is using array_pair_list
 
@bwoebi ah, does this mean you can do [[$a, $b], [$c, $d]] = $e; but not [list($a, $b), list($c, $d)] = $e; ?
 
list() = is using assignment_list, because of nested lists
@Andrea exactly
 
10:41 PM
I see! Awesome
and likewise you can't do list([$a, $b], [$c, $d]) ?
 
and especially you can't do $a = list($a, $b); (which you would without that assignment_list separation)
@Andrea that one is possible though (because of expr)
 
@bwoebi ah. for consistency's sake, could you prevent it in the compiler?
 
@Andrea no
@Andrea It's indistinguishable
 
they're bashing php in the javascript room, how dare they
 
it is?
 
10:43 PM
@Andrea yes
 
Hey people! Someone suggested someone did this and watched your reaction. I love you all btw
 
@towc the next image appearing must have been Javascript
 
Oh I see, yeah :/
 
that gif was very off topic
 
Anyone have a favorite second factor for 2fa before I run off and look at the Google Authenticator examples?
 
10:44 PM
@bwoebi you're hurting my feels...
PHP devs don't have feels
 
@MadaraUchiha please handle flag abuser ^
 
hahahahahahahah
 
@towc why did you do that?
 
@acoder how about you stop trying to cause drama between rooms, eh?
 
@acoder a bit of fun... don't think anyone got offended
 
10:45 PM
@Andrea If it weren't more work than it's worth, I'd prevent it quickly, but well ;-)
 
@SterlingArcher they were poking fun at my favorite language
 
arnt you a delicate little flower
 
Congratulations, welcome to the internet
 
@bwoebi I think this can be done simply actually
with some sort of wrapper AST element or a flag hidden somewhere
 
i need to go to my safe place
anyone in here use pjax?
 
10:46 PM
we compile it recursively, right? it's possible to pass a flag down somewhere, I think…
 
Also, room owners of PHP, we've basically been given permission to kick @acoder on sight, so use that knowledge as you will ;)
 
@Andrea except that the flag is currently used for by-ref assignments…
 
@bwoebi ah
 
sterling deserves a swift boot FOREVER from this room
 
@acoder meh, just a bit humour
 
10:48 PM
am i laughing?
 
yes. :-D
 
they booted me for talking about animals as food
@bwoebi no, i'm a very serious person
 
@acoder We totally noticed.
 
You can permaban me from PHP it's ok :)
I don't come here often
 
@SterlingArcher just when challenged?
 
10:51 PM
@Andrea by the way, zend_parser_stack_elem is an 8 byte union currently…
 
You disrupt our room, I warn other rooms about you :D
 
php is bad
 
other people do too
 
@Andrea sure, you could start passing flags around, but I strongly advise against…
 
And we ban them as well
 
10:52 PM
when it offends me i flag
 
lol
 
like it's meant for
 
@Andrea as said, it's doable, but it's not just a 3 line change
 
I get offended that you have the word "coder" in your name. It's a trigger word for me.
should I flag everything you say?
 
@ndugger sure, i dare you
 
10:53 PM
@SterlingArcher fyi you're talking about someone who the vast majority of people are likely to have on ignore, which doesn't actually help keep the room on topic...
 
You dare me to flag you?
 
Tiny avatar people are the best.
 
why is pjax ignorable?
 
because it's bad
 
> Support group for those afflicted with PHP.
 
10:54 PM
@acoder you may want to talk to a moderator about what flags are valid
Because "it offends you" is not a valid reason. You've in fact been warned by moderators not to abuse flags like you do
 
the way they normally do pjax it is, but if you can go into only what you need to change it will be better
 
@Danack you're right, not worth my time. Bye!
 
laters.
 
Everything is always worth my time
Let's rewrite php
 
no, i haven't been by a SO moderator
 
10:55 PM
just add dollar symbols before everything
@acoder yes you have
You've been warned numerous times by moderators
 
a room moderator isn't a so moderator
 
I'm talking about a real SO moderator
Madara is one of them that has warned you
 
who's a real so moderator
 
@ndugger please stop talking to people about meta stuff in here. Either summon a moderator or put the person on ignore.
 
when?
 
10:57 PM
@Danack I'll just let myself out
 
one for the road, sir?
 
> Yeah I'll take 13 road beers
 
how about a broken arm for the road?
like it happened to me 3 years ago
@SterlingArcher
does anyone in here use pjax?
 
@bwoebi I guess so
 
anyone in here use pjax?
 
11:02 PM
@acoder No, because we are PHP developers, not jQuery lUsers.
 
you can use pjax if you use php though
it's for just in time page loading
 
Based on the 3 minutes of caring about pjax that I've spent so far... a jQuery plugin that isn't supported by all browsers? Yeah, no, I'll stay with WebSockets to do even more, thankyouverymuch.
 
all browsers don't support xmlhttprequest?
since when?
 
@acoder since google told you
 
google never told me though
 
11:06 PM
@acoder you can always ask him
he seems to be nice
 
480
Q: Are the PUT, DELETE, HEAD, etc methods available in most web browsers?

John MillikinI've seen a couple questions around here like How to debug RESTful services, which mentions: Unfortunately that same browser won't allow me to test HTTP PUT, DELETE, and to a certain degree even HTTP POST. I've also heard this, that browsers support only GET and POST, from some other source...

 
@Ghedipunk it is a limited wrapped around jQuery.fn.load that does some stuff with pushstate and doesn't execute js (like jQuery.fn.load)
 
@rlemon it can if setup properly
 
great idea, failed execution (as it already exists and would be benefited from using internally)
@acoder to the average user, working around your limitations isn't going to happen if there is already something that works within your dependencies
 
as long as the functions necessary are called, it will run the functions
 
11:10 PM
which is what I was trying to tell you in the JS room before you went all crazy flag monster
 
@rlemon every great implementation has a great team
 
if you stopped and smelled the roses you would see that jQuery.fn.load + your little pushstate is like 100% better than what you have now
jesus man, get your head out of your ass and take some advice on your code
 
@rlemon if you offer a fix it can be implemented
 
I suggested a better way of implementing it. I'm not going to touch your code.
 
what line should i replace?
 
11:12 PM
:/
glhf
 
@rlemon with what?
 
@acoder the roses
 
@towc you know what i mean
 
I really don't
but glhf
 
"what line should I replace"... Probably the single least helpful question you could ask around here. Anyone who hasn't already blocked you will most definitely never help you again. You are showing no effort in your own software, anything that anyone offers to do to help you has been met with scorn and derision, and now you want people to do your own work, and you think that replacing a line is all it takes when everything will need to be replaced simply because you touched it?
 
11:18 PM
 
gets popcorn, sits back, and enjoys
 
You know what? I'm in a charitable mood. Go look up the Dunning-Kruger Effect. That's you, on the left hand side of those charts, over in the 0-25% zone with the 75% confidence in your own work. Then, go spend some time reading catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html ... Don't just skim it. Take some real time, then read it again, and yet again. If you haven't spent 8 hours reading it by then, read it some more. Then, go find the people who haven't blocked you yet, apologize...
Then go spend a few years getting a formal education.
 
Wes
evenings
 
29 mins ago, by Danack
@SterlingArcher fyi you're talking about someone who the vast majority of people are likely to have on ignore, which doesn't actually help keep the room on topic...
@Wes evening.
 
Wes
yo
 
11:24 PM
@Ghedipunk why'd you put the "formal education" bit in? You can be good without a formal education...
 
Many people can be, yes. He can't.
 
fair enough
 
11:42 PM
@PeeHaa I see you built some sort of cache dashboard for opcache. Are you familiar with any decent cache priming mechanism? Should I just autoload all files in my system with an opcache file being set?
 
if I see anyone doing that, I'm gonna hurt 'em ..
done, I think ... ship it ...
 
You
Hello
 
ha, I'm not going to fall for that ... I'm obviously imagining you ...
 
You
I'm real.
 
yeah, but you would say that ... I'm not getting into this with you ... you are not there ...
 
You
11:53 PM
I'm a real human being. What more would you want? What makes me not real and everyone else here real?
 
good point man ... far out ...
 
You're not being you right now. You're being an alternate identity.
One I don't like to see
 
You
@GettingNifty I steal identities as a hobby. (That would be what Black Hat does.)
I'm all of you. You is me.
 
Wes
/me *folds directory structure* - yay finished! i'm not going to touch this again!
/me 5 seconds later - FFFFFFFFFUUUUU *unfolds all*
 
You
@Wes Lesson of the day: never fold folders. (Even though they are called folders :/ )
 
11:59 PM
@Ocramius opcache can write compiled scripts to the file system as a cache warming mechanism......which apparently the docs may be missing for...
 
@Danack aha
 

« first day (1997 days earlier)      last day (2951 days later) »