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JavaScript only demonstrates that if you care enough you can make something that has very odd type rules and no explicit types run well.
JavaScript engines are significantly more complicated than Zend Engine and I suspect HHVM as well.
@ircmaxell stay calm, everything will be well :)
@Danack I said, with a warning. IMO it's better than fataling out in production.
I learned me some Haskell:
module Main where

data Tree a =
      Empty
    | Node (Tree a) a (Tree a)

instance Eq a => Eq (Tree a) where
    Empty == Empty = True
    (Node al a ar) == (Node bl b br) = al == bl && a == b && ar == br
    _ == _ = False

empty :: Tree a -> Bool
empty (Empty) = True
empty (Node left value right) = False

value (Node _ val _) = val


main :: IO ()
main = do
    let node = Node Empty 1 Empty
    putStrLn(show(empty(Empty)))
    putStrLn(show(empty(node)))
    putStrLn(show(value(node)))
    putStrLn(show(node == node))
@NikiC yeah, thanks to @Sara on twitter and some conversations with others on the side, I am OK
00:39
There was too much traffic on list the last few days… I couldn't follow … And now I don't really want to read every single mail… So what's current state?
a bunch of people arguing about static analysis and compiling, and the positive (or lack of) benefits of static typing
18:45 <Derick> ircmaxell: don't you dare retracting your RFC
18:46 <ircmaxell> Derick: I won't, but you have no idea how much I want to
I'm not even sure I'll vote on some of the RFCs going around.
I just haven't been able to allocate time for everything I want to do.
Had to go learn me some Haskell to keep me sane
00:41
mornin!
@ircmaxell so, no real progress?
@bwoebi actually, big progress. I got stas to admit he was wrong (tho he won't admit it)
> OK, so your claim is that the compiler with strict typing can detect some situations which the dynamic one can not and reject some of the code. Without going too much into details, I agree with this, this is an obvious difference between strict and dynamic.
then we disagreed on the next point
not sure if this is big progress ^^
but in internals terms, maybe yeah^^
:-P
no, no big progress
Did you see what I wrote about truncating floats to ints with a warning?
00:46
no, let me check
6 hours ago, by bwoebi
@NikiC Maybe we should allow float -> int with an E_WARNING? To not immediately fatal out, but generate helpful error messages? \cc @ircmaxell
especially when dealing with large floats
in dev you often only have small values… but in production, it may have fatal consequences.
I'd like to see an RFC for just for large int -> float conversions in the general case.
int -> float is normal widening… there's nothing to change there…
@bwoebi This is simply not true. Not all integers can be represented without loss as float. It's not normal widening on fixed-size systems.
(Despite what Java and C will tell you)
yeah, I know. but that is less of an issue I think.
00:54
How do you get the ith element out of an array
It's just a small loss.
if the array doesn't have numeric keys
@LeviMorrison but… maybe a non-lossless cast could deserve a warning too…
I am unsure about that in the general case.
In certain languages I'd love that warning and it doesn't exist.
I'm not sure if PHP should be one of those languages.
it's all just brainstorming…
Thanks, didn't think about array_slice
oh how i miss when i was nightshift and everyone is here at room11. >.<
@bwoebi if we accept Zeev's proposal, perhaps. In fact, I think youd have to for BC...
@LeviMorrison they can be represented without scale loss. Yes, there can be precision loss...
@ircmaxell hmm… that wasn't for BC reasons, but to solve another issue… but you're right, it solves two issues at the same time…
Hey is it possible to download .php files off a server using cURL? Or will they always just execute & not read?
01:04
well, and in any coercive mode, yeah...
what's in a coercive mode?
how ZPP behaves today
that we need to maintain bc?
ah
so the weak mode in my RFC
I think that's reasonable
I think I'd like a single mode that is halfway between strict and what we have today.
01:10
@ircmaxell what are your issues with Ze'ev's RFC apart from static analysis? (If int<->float is fixed)
I don't see why "10 apples" should be valid as anything other than a string.
And I personally include " 10 " (with spaces) to also be invalid except as a string. You can easily trim it if desired.
@bwoebi the non-starter is: So really, it's screw BC, screw consistent behavior between internal and userland behavior or install another fundamental behavior ini setting.
@ircmaxell the ini setting is just one option to discuss.
I don't want lossy int <-> float conversions
I think those are the biggest issues for me.
@LeviMorrison as I repeatedly said, with an E_WARNING.
01:11
@bwoebi right, the other two options include "don't do it" (inconsistent behavior between internal and external) or "just do it" (screw BC)
Oh, and sane boolean conversions (which I honestly like the way Java did this: you have to use an operator)
@LeviMorrison can you give me a case where that matters that isn't better solved by a numeric union type?
@ircmaxell I'm talking in the general sense. I'm okay with conversion that is loss-less. I'm also okay with union types.
@ircmaxell In case where we fix int <-> float, the only remaining BC issue is that we can't pass arrays and objects to bool and that non-strictly numeric strings aren't accepted as integer/float anymore.
still trying to think of a real case where it makes a difference...
01:13
And IMO that's a level where the break becomes acceptable.
@bwoebi without a patch we can't gauge that
I also think we need to switch to a standardized, non-configurable string representation for floats.
No locale.
@LeviMorrison Agree
No "stop displaying after this many digits" option (can use number_format or something)
@ircmaxell yeah. What's the reason why there's no patch yet?
(according to Ze'ev?)
01:16
I'm trying to take an array of strings I've generated in PHP and make it an array of strings in JavaScript. Looking at the returned source for the page, it has the indices as well as the strings, i.e., the keys as well as the values for the hybrid map/array of PHP. Is there a function to just return the strings so json treats it as an array of them?
sure. how cold do you want your network to be?
@arcy haha
Yeah, wasn't a big guffaw or anything. I don't suppose YOU can answer MY question?
the PHP one, not the hot network one
@arcy well, you can use
json_encode($array)
01:24
yeah, that's what I have; I think I've just discovered I also have a BUG
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/28665631/is-it-possible-to-download-a-php-file-from-a-server-using-curl

cURL question
@Chris the answer is no
cheers, thought so
bloody hell, soon as i link that a million answers.
(sigh) had not filled in a variable on the line BEFORE the error showed up; Java has spoiled me with strong typing, etc.
@Chris that's uh, because it's an easy question to answer :p but don't feel bad. Everyone starts at some point. I remember being in fourth grade and being confused because all I could find when I downloaded a program were lines of codes and not the dot ee ex ee file....
01:39
Apparently strict type checks are stupid because they don't stop developers from being able to write bugs - en.reddit.com/r/PHP/comments/2wo79c/…
@bwoebi no idea
@LeviMorrison ++
02:04
> The behaviour of an automatic conversion to array is currently undefined. php.net/manual/en/language.types.type-juggling.php
And more conversion fun:
> If the float is beyond the boundaries of integer (usually +/- 2.15e+9 = 2^31 on 32-bit platforms and +/- 9.22e+18 = 2^63 on 64-bit platforms other than Windows), the result is undefined, since the float doesn't have enough precision to give an exact integer result. No warning, not even a notice will be issued when this happens! ~php.net/manual/en/language.types.integer.php
 
2 hours later…
04:28
morning
05:04
GUD MORNING!!!
05:33
Morning
morning
05:54
ola
hey @boyee
hi
can anyone help me on this problem?
thanks :)
06:15
post your problem here , maybe they can help
i'm currently having a problem with uploading file with ajax and php
but i was unable to insert the image as blob into the database with ajax, but other text field is working
is there anything i can do to upload the file also with ajax?
1
Q: Unable to insert image into database with AJAX on multiple form

Marcus TanI'm currently having a problem with my AJAX and PHP code where by I'm trying to create a multiple form on a page which act as a different input type for each of the form themself. The problem i have now is that i currently have 4 form which carry different item id but same type of value in the in...

nice beard @cspray
morning
@tereško hi you mean @tereško leave about name of site what you mean by black fire
06:34
    I need to create the below design  using foreach. Array_chunk not gonna work in this case cz $email is an object. Thanks
       @foreach($email->attachment as $attach)
         <div class="row">
       <div class="col-lg-4"></div>
          <div class="col-lg-4"></div>
           <div class="col-lg-4"></div>
    </div>
    @endforeach

    <div class="row">
       <div class="col-lg-4">1strow</div>
          <div class="col-lg-4"></div>
           <div class="col-lg-4"></div>
    </div>
     <div class="row">
Morning
mornin'
@farooqshaik I wrote "backfire"
06:54
mornings
1
Q: Unable to insert image into database with AJAX on multiple form

Marcus TanI'm currently having a problem with my AJAX and PHP code where by I'm trying to create a multiple form on a page which act as a different input type for each of the form themself. The problem i have now is that i currently have 4 form which carry different item id but same type of value in the in...

help please~
@user2736704 iterator_to_array and/or NoRewindIterator + LimitIterator
07:05
@hakre Argument 1 passed to iterator_to_array() must implement interface Traversable, instance of Attachments
@tereško what is backfire @tereško
07:33
why do people keep saying that strict is the same as dynamic when it comes to generating code JIT or AOT ...
that's so obviously not true, no matter how many times it's said and who says it ...
morning guys
07:53
I should make an RFC: automatically delete any deprecated feature in the next major version
+1
but I still don't have a php.net account ;D
@Gotalove morning :)
morning myfriend :-P
@JoeWatkins yeah... I like Zeev's RFC because it feels very... php. However, his whole stance on the JIT/AOT stuff is completely stupid imho.
3
Q: CodeIgniter Select column into variable give error

Oli Soproni B.I have this code using a transaction on codeigniter $this->db->trans_begin(); $this->db->query("SET @clientID = {$client_id}, @amount = {$amount}, @gameID = {$game_id}, @tableID = {$table_id}, @tableName = '{$table_name}', @usedBalanceID = NULL"); $this->db->query("SELECT availableBalance INTO...

08:04
@Gotalove why you gotta love? xD
coz you are my friend :D
lol that's really messed up
xD
@FlorianMargaine I know that he understands this stuff as least as well as I do, or I'm lead to believe that ... so the only possible option is that he is taking a stance he knows to be based on fallacy :s
did you see the assembly generated for fibo ?
nope
I didn't read every mail tbh...
08:12
me neither ... it's boring the fuck out of me ...
I hate conversation, I'm a doing person ...
dmitry posted it ...
it was real complicated
oh btw, they mention JS a lot...
any implementation that needs to generate code that complex is utterly pointless, they apparently done a year of research and came to the same ruddy conclusion, but today they think it's worth having another go ...
an example from the JS world: google and mozilla have spent years to build super powerful JITs, improving code performance by wonders during years...
and yet, someone wrote "asm.js" in 10 days. It performs faster than all the JITs.
why? because it has strict typing
yep, it's just so obviously false that they are equivalent, it's annoying ...
but he keeps saying it, people that don't know will start to believe it, because of his name and email ...
08:16
the problem with engaging him like anthony is doing, is that anthony is bringing legitimate argument and zeev just keeps repeating what he already said, but in such a way that it seems like a rebuttal if you're not familiar with the subject matter
when someone has a presupposition, there is no point in arguing with them ...
yeah @ircmaxell is very patient in this thread...
there comes a point where having patience works in the other guys favour, you are providing him a platform to keep repeating the same rhetoric ...
Morning again
morning
08:29
morning
@Peehaa morning xD
@JoeWatkins well as i said before, if static analysis or AOT are the only strong arguments for strict typing, then this is really not good enough. You need to bring forward a good userland argument as well.
@beberlei static analysis is a good userland argument...
I was about to say: those are userland arguments to me.
maybe to 5% of the people, but that allows zeev to rightly marginalize them
08:36
But the more important userland argument to me would be to get rid off hundreds of lines of code I now have in guard clauses to ensure that I do not get garbage as arguments into a method.
hi @SebastianBergmann i watched your conference about quality and agility yesterday ^^
didn't really get the WoW part but other than that good job thanks :)
there are clear benefits in code quality, code reduction, bug reduction, "lean on the compiler" approach to programming. which 100% of users of static type hinting can benefit from, not those small number of ones that also use it for static analysis
for example with static type hints, IDEs like storm could show the incorrect types directly, with weak typing it can only make it a warning, beacuse it has to assume the programmer uses the feature to convert magically
this should be the arguments for static
@beberlei I'm not using this as a way to justify strict mode, the original RFC justified it well enough, so well that I changed my vote half way through ... it's just a matter of fact that dynamic code requires the same guards that @SebastianBergmann just mentioned, whether it's PHP or generated assembly, and regardless of the language this does have a measurable impact on everything ...
@SebastianBergmann that would happen with coercive STH too
with 2 rfcs, i don't see why some people will vote on both +1, so I guess neither one will get 66% votes.
08:44
has this happened before do we know ?
@SebastianBergmann why didnt you vote +1 on andrea's rfc then btw?
he did, iirc
(he changed his vote midway)
ah i remember his mail, yes, but as of the closed vote now, his vote is -1
so we've never had two competing RFC's go to vote at the same time ?
someone mentioned something about a competitor to phar, wasn't watching then ...
08:47
no i dont think so
maybe it would make more sense to have a vote that was three way, no, coercive, and dual as options ...
although there's no patch, the most interesting insights during the last discussion came about because there was a patch and people tested it ... we can't vote when there is no patch for one of the implementations ...
which timezone is zeev in? i always assumed california, but he is answering right now, that would be 1 in the night CA?
> I'm happy we have that clearly stated, as based on emails here and
elsewhere, it wasn't clear to a lot of people beforehand. Given identical
input source code, in all the cases where it's possible to generate C-level
calls with Strict, it will also be possible to generate C-level calls with
Coercive.
GAAAH
Zeev is israeli - afaik he still works there
@JoeWatkins Zeev said he'd provide one by the end of this week or something
08:51
yeah I think that's right, he's tweeted when stuff was happening there, from there .. iirc ...
Hello
Somebody have worked with wordpress before?
yes but andi is israeli as well, i thought both left to the US.
08:52
Most of us have, but we would prefer to forget that particular trauma
I see there is Wordpress 4, should I read book for Wp3 or WP4? I guess WP4 is very new
definately wp4
@beberlei that could have also happened ... not sure ...
shall we vote on it ?
wait ... there's a flaw in this voting thing ...
WP4 a trauma oh ... ;D
08:53
ok WP4 it is :)
@SergeyTelshevsky i try to keep it in mind.
@Vlad what are you trying to do? and why do you think wordpress is the right answer?
@beberlei I never did a mistake ever since discovered that page :)
@Patrick I have my own idea for a blog, and also I could find job with it :)
08:55
@Vlad I do have one wordpress blog, don't know what you exactly want
@SergeyTelshevsky de-finite-ly would be a better grouping to make it rememberable :)
The question was shouls I read WP3 or WP4.
you can also find a job cleaning public toilets. That's not a good argument.
If you just want to set up a simple blog. Meh... go for it. But if you want to develop stuff, please stay far away from it
@YourFriend he probably wants to make some type of social network with a shopping cart
nah...
theere are ton of social networks, why shoudl I bother
08:57
@Vlad rule of thumb, if in doubt always use the more recent stable version
maybe he wants to make his own Wordpress theme
@tereško social network with a shopping cart
I had an idea for a gaming blog. Experimenting...
omg
you haunt my nights
@Vlad so you want to create your own theme for that?
08:59
good morning
@Gordon morning
Good Morning
I got an answer for my question, and there is SO site for WP so I wont be bothering you.
I am beginneri in WP so...
@Vlad mostly there are customization and plugin issues with Wordpress Site. Everything else is straight forward
@FlorianMargaine that as standard usecase for using wordpress =P
09:02
The idea was to create, CMS website, but not from scratch.
Good moonday mourning, Room 11. :)
Yup try some SEO, theming
move from blogger anyway
experimenting not something serious though
@Vlad yeah WP is SEO friendly
/me is getting a headache
Morning
09:03
@Fabor morning
@tereško always serious :)
Is there a decent blogging system that you would recommend to someone that wants to use wp?
@Vlad for experimenting, you may install WAMP server. Install WP on it and start experimenting
@tereško PC sorted?
@Patrick I am partial to WP, won't recommend any other
09:04
@Fabor today I will be getting the second shipment
@YourFriend stop giving out horrible advice. thanks
@tereško Is it the final one?
@Patrick blogger
:D
@Patrick do you have any better advice?
09:05
How many points are needed for chat again? Not suggesting anything of course... :)
Good morning
@Fabor nope, I will have at least 5 shipments in total
@Patrick 20
Oh... crazy programmers :)
BTW What's the weather like the past few days there @tereško. I'll be there in just under two-weeks.
If you are good in engineering, WP should not be an issue.
09:07
@Fabor 2°C, sunny
@Vlad this is a programming chat room
@Vlad if you are good in engineering, you should see the issues with WP ...
not a programming, a coder room :)
Havent used WP before
women :D
This is too much for a Monday morning...
see ya later navigator
09:10
The video is bullshit...
And anyway, according to its content, you just insulted all of us.
@tereško cold then :-/
I'm not sure what just happened
good morning guys!
a real developer would surely reconstruct the tunnel, type hinted argument TruckInterface $truck that has size getters and a size check, that would take about a month,while this deadline truck would surely be taken out to pieces and it's contents delivered manually using a bunch of junior devs/interns on foot.
09:23
@Naruto good morning
@YourFriend Good afternoon
ThW
ThW
Morning
@ThW morning :)\
09:33
@YourFriend good morning ^^
@Naruto we haz fake one? :O
@Naruto Yup !!
the afternoon is a lie ...
afternoon in india
posted on February 23, 2015 by kbironneau

/* by m4ch3t3666 */

09:48
there is never an afternoon!
only a morning! :P
10:28
Anyone actually worked with a CMS recently? Not including Drupal or Wordpress.
I d... nvm.
hi anyone have expert in Zend Framework V1
@FlorianMargaine You guys moved to 8 yet?
Or is it not production yet?
d8 isn't out of beta yet
10:32
Damn. It's gotta be close no? I thought it was close months ago.
hello
hi all
@Fabor no... beta started a couple months ago
Will you use it right after release or wait till lots of plugins have been built and it's more renowned?
i want to receive data in controller in codeigniter from Ajax call(from jquery file).
var title = prompt('Event Title:');
$.ajax ({
url: "http://localhost/phplec/sms/calendar/test",
type: 'POST',
data: title,
success: function(msg) {
alert(msg);
}
});

Controller :
function test() {
$title = $this->input->post('title');
echo $title;
}
after ajax success only blank alert appears
@Fabor depends...
@Fabor in our company, I think we'll use it pretty quickly
but we have many drupal contributors... we're not a classic case
for most projects and companies, I'd wait ~6 months after release to make sure most modules have been ported
10:36
Aye. I can imagine some drupal devs will struggle moving to 8
@FlorianMargaine @Fabor any help??????
@JazibBashir CodeIgniter... meh. Maybe try a codeigniter specific IRC?
@Fabor how?
Go to google and type "Codeigniter IRC" and join the channel.
@Fabor ok
10:40
lol, codeigniter
10:52
Is that still going?
11:16
I don't expect drupal to be ready in the next few months
Drupal 8 enters release candidate phase once there are zero critical issues.

55 critical issues remaining
Do critical ones count for the libraries they're using?
I don't think so no
11:37
Hi, I have an application which makes use of gettext to internationalize the content. Hence, I have one pot file, which is generated automatically from the code. Further, I have language-specific po files. Are you aware of any tool (php library, application), which can compare the pot file with the po files and provide kind of a translation summary? I have seen such an overview on some projects, however cannot point to a specific one at the moment. Thanks
morning
morning :)
morning :)
morning :)
yay, may shipment will arrive in 15min
11:46
what you are receiving?
Good afternoon :-)
I actually do not remember
I have 3 different shipments incoming (probably this week)
hehe but you are excited as hell :)
@tereško hope you get it soon
@tereško Lé Presento :-p
should be less than 10 min
11:53
... suprise ... DANG I didn't order this!
12:07
Morgen!
do any of you guys have any idea where I could order some nice custom stickers in europe?
I saw so much nice one on conferences, but for some reason noone knows where those were made =\
I don't know ...
you want people that organize conferences
@tereško Those 10 min are over, what the hell did you get? :D
lol @Naruto
We aren't curious but we really would like to know what you got @tereško
Can't help it.. Curiousity took over... :P
12:18
@MikeM. lol xD
@Naruto sabertooth 990x motherboard and two sticks of corsair ram (total: 16gb)
hope you are not using Windows Home Basic xD
@tereško Currently looking at the Asrock extreme X99: Looks awesome
@Jimbo x99 setup is kinda REAAAALY expensive
Just look at it though, it's beautiful...
12:24
because you also need the matching intel chip and ddr4
aslo, usb3.1 is noth worth it
Just over £200 for 16GB DDR4 2800Mhz, not too bad
But yeah, there's nothing usb 3.1 yet
Hi alll...
Given that "php" in names like elephpant and puphpet is usually pronounced "f", what does that make #phpuk? ;) #php
have you looked at prices for intel cpus ?!
@Anil hi and welcome :)
12:31
yo @Andrea
@yogesh hi
@you
@YourFriend hi
yo wassup
12:59
Has anyone experience with Guzzle Service Description? I built a api client on it, works great. But due the declarative nature, the actual methods/parameters are not discoverable from within PHP (e.g. for IDEs). Any idea about that? :)

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