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7:04 PM
@kelunik because timezone warning. in php 7 it should no longer be necessary
 
7:17 PM
@kelunik we can remove this now.
Oh, yet another RC.
 
@bwoebi bah
 
7:43 PM
@NikiC Well, I'm slightly amused…
 
@bwoebi What's amusing?
 
That the IPV6_V6ONLY constant I added for 7.0.1 is now going into 7.0.0…
 
Is it?
 
I guess.
(and hope)
 
Thought it would be cherry-picked still
 
7:45 PM
Don't know…
 
8:05 PM
For, @LeviMorrison and anyone else with our PhpStorm open source project license... news.php.net/php.internals/89104
 
8:41 PM
god I despise ZF2
 
Any particular reason other than all of it?
 
9:17 PM
haha, it is just so unintuiative
documentation is poor
routing is appaling
configuration over convention
rubbish out of the box DB layer
you need to create an 'application' module, to store app wide configs
which seems ridiculous
I feel like I am fighting it constantly.
 
Anonymous
@EquinoxMatt That sounds familiar
 
Anonymous
@salathe can you at least give me some karma for that? I read the requirement for the free license, I don't think I am eligible for one with my current OS project
 
I inherited the project at my current workplace, very tempted to rewrite it either as a composer based framework, or in Laravel
but I know rewrites should be avoided
unless absolutly necessary
 
Is there a new date for the release of PHP7?
 
Anonymous
@MarkBaker mid november
 
9:24 PM
@MarkBaker It should be the 26th
RC cycles are two weeks
 
Anonymous
but all RCs are released
 
Anonymous
6 in total
 
@samayo yeah… and there's going to be a new one.
 
the other thing about ZF2, I tried to implement phpunit into it, and it is a nightmare
 
Good to hear that it won't be too long a delay then.... and better a good release than sticking rigidly to a date
 
9:29 PM
@EquinoxMatt "configuration over convention" - I prefer configuration over convention. The issue is that the config scheme has to do way too much stuff, and therefor sucks....
 
@Danack - Agreed. Then again ZF2's Config over Convention is dreamy compared to the Magento 2 stuff i work on
*Magento (not magento 2)
 
Flees in terror
 
@Danack - have you got experience with Mockery?
 
wait, PHP 7 is delayed?
loads new newsgroup messages Ah.
 
@EquinoxMatt yes....though I usually feel bad when I'm doing Mocking in unit tests.
@Andrea if nothing else, the garbage collection thingy needs testing.
 
9:33 PM
Just a quick one then, let me grab a pastebin
 
@salathe are JetBrains actually okay with having the details on the wiki?
 
@Danack GC thingy? the fix for the heap corruption?
 
@EquinoxMatt You're looking in the wrong place maybe? none given - doesn't correspond to that code.
@Andrea yarp.
 
ah, okay
 
9:36 PM
@Danack - ahh, jesus - thick moment. Maybe I shouldn't code on Sunday nights :O
 
well, not sober
 
> Happy Friday! My name is Taylor, I am a Recruiter with Synergy Interactive. I am reaching out because I came across your profile and was impressed with your background. I'm sure you get hit up by Recruiters quite often and I'm not trying to waste anyone's time, so I will just cut to the chase!

***14 sentences of rambling later...***

> I have a position that doesn't suite *any* of your qualifications because I did not bother to read your profile and have sent this mass-email out to everyone with "Software Engineer" in their title reflecting my own poor qualifications as a technical recru
You gotta love these guys, really.
 
you know, somehow I feel that last paragraph wasn't sent by them verbatim :p
 
Ya think ;)
 
@PeeHaa a reaction to that SO question of yours I had linked
 
9:39 PM
@Andrea it's private
 
Haaha, I got someone on linkedin who said she loved my profile and especially that I have strong knowledge of Symfony2 - on my linkedin I list Laravel/CI/Slim as one's that I have experience with
 
@NikiC can only logged in users see it?
 
@Andrea yes
 
@EquinoxMatt They might as well replace these recruiters with bots. At least then they'll do a better job of matching up qualifications with the job spec.
 
@NikiC I see.
 
9:41 PM
@Sherif - It is a shame, there is a small number of very good recruiters - 95% of them are utterly useless and give recruiters a bad name
 
In-house recruiters I'm fine with. But those guys working on commission just suck at their jobs really.
 
Since they somehow get paid, I guess they're paid commissions when the employee is hired rather than when the employee turns out to be any good?
 
@Andrea hehe, I wondered the same…
 
@Andrea - Usually they get paid a fixed amount of the first years wage
 
oh wow
 
9:43 PM
Who in-house recruiters?
 
its a lucrative area
@Sherif - no, external
 
@Andrea Void RFC closing tomorrow and have more than 80% yes votes :)
 
Yea, those guys live on commission. If it's for a firm they're usually making crap though. The firm typically gets up to 25% of your yearly salary as a commission and pays those lowly email-blasters a fraction of that.
 
@NikiC yep, I noticed :)
specifically, it closes in 2 hours and 22 minutes
 
It's lucrative if you know what you're doing, definitely. The average software engineering salary going for around $100K/year in the US, means just 1 successful hire can land you as much as $25K commission.
 
9:47 PM
The problem with recruitment, is the reason it is full of scumbags: 1) low barrier to entry 2) no real experience needed to start
 
Having done dozens of technical interviews over the years though, I can say with confidence that 90% of the people those firms refer are typically never given an offer let alone make it to the final stages of the interview.
 
@EquinoxMatt I thought we were talking about recruiting and not PHP development
ducks
 
@Andrea - I wish i had a comeback - but we all know it is true!
 
I find the majority of successful tech hires are done by employee referral or in-house recruiting. That's why most places pay up to $15K for a referral.
 
@Sherif I am currently in my 4th developer job and only once had a technical interview
 
9:50 PM
@EquinoxMatt on a different note, you could collapse 2) into 1)
 
@Sherif THen again, I am UK based, the whole culture seems different
 
@EquinoxMatt You mean conducted one technical interview, or were interviewed once?
 
@Sherif I were interviewed once. Only in my current job have I been in the position to interview people.
@Andrea Indeed. Good spot
 
@EquinoxMatt huh? They hired you at 3 other jobs without interviewing you?
That sounds scary.
 
@Sherif - Define technical interview? The reason I say this is - I have been interviewed, but only one would I call technical e.g my ability to remember information was tested ;)
@Sherif - I wrote some code on the whiteboard and asked about various PHP gotcha's
 
9:53 PM
@EquinoxMatt Yea, I wouldn't exactly call your ability to remember anything a good technical interview.
Questions that require memorization in a tech interview are the worst possible questions to asses someone's technical qualifications.
 
@Sherif - I don't know, look on reddit, every other day there is someone basically saying they swalled a CS textbook the week before a tech interview
 
I wouldn't exactly look to reddit for any measurable technical advice, but I would say that there is a lot of work involved in preparing for a technical interview, sure.
None of which should be "memorize things".
Your ability to recite things from memory isn't going to come very handy on the job. I mean, why commit to memory that which is readily at your disposal anyway?
 
@Sherif I think I prefer to focus on the person, yes there technical ability is important, but if they can't fit into your team or have a really bad attitude to learning then how useful would they be?
 
@EquinoxMatt Not very, but then again how useful is a great cultural fit that has no technical qualifications?
Both are pretty important.
 
@Sherif - Getting the right balance I guess
 
9:57 PM
Definitely.
 
@Sherif I find it slightly ridiculous in the UK (my part anyway) there is a shortage of devs yet companies are still very reluctant to pay higher wages
@Sherif Again this is hearsay, but whenever I see jobs advertised in the US's, devs seem overpaid! But then take into account current rates and other factors, health insurance etc, it is hard to work out if devs are more valued in the US or UK
 
@EquinoxMatt I hear Google is pretty darn competitive salary-wise in the UK.
 
@Sherif Possibly, I wouldn't know, I think the Google positions are all London based
 
@EquinoxMatt Demand and supply. There is a greater need for highly skilled workers in the US than there are people qualified to fill those roles. So it's a seller's market.
 
and London specific wages are higher compared to everywhere else
 
10:00 PM
 
@Danack somehow the whole Benghazi thing passed over me at the time. what's wrong with it?
 
@EquinoxMatt Google doesn't have remote positions available in the UK? I find that hard to believe.
They usually go out their way to compete with Pearson over there.
 
@Sherif I wouldn't know, I don't think I am quite google ready, maybe some day ;)
 
@EquinoxMatt What makes you think that?
 
@Andrea The shortest version is that terrorist attacked a US outpost in Libya and killed some US people. And the rightwing people are somehow blaming Mrs Clinton for preventing that attack because of reasons, including made up ones (e.g. that she ordered the troops that could have saved them from saving those people.....there were no troops in place, and she didn't give any orders like that).
 
10:06 PM
@Sherif I don't really know, good question. Maybe a mix of I don't feel like I have quite enough experience and it's... well Google?
 
The marginally longer version is that the outpost was a CIA operation to buy up anti-aircraft weapons that were floating around Libya after the government fell (a good thing), as well as funnel weapons to the Syrians weapons (a bad thing), so the State department had absolutely no operational control over what was going on there......
 
Politics and Programming, a heavy mix
 
And the film is probably going to be a massive loads of bollocks with even sillier made up facts.
 
@EquinoxMatt Bah, don't be intimidated by that. Lots of people think that at first, but I assure you just about everyone I've talked to there tells me they felt the same way before they interviewed there.
 
Because it's an election year and obviously Clinton is running for pres......and the right-wing have nothing except to make up their own facts.
 
10:08 PM
Also, Google doesn't necessarily care about experience. They care about finding good engineers. Not necessarily experienced ones.
 
@Sherif understandable. Fear of the unknown
 
Unless you're applying for a very specif specialized role or something.
 
@Sherif Thanks for the link, I stumbled across that a couple of months ago on reddit, i had it on my bookmarks. I promised to re-visit it some day.
 
Yea, definitely a good read even though it's pretty old. Still relevant though. You also might find youtube.com/… useful
They're pretty transparent about their hiring practices google.com/about/careers/lifeatgoogle/hiringprocess
I'd say the thing that gets most people is that they do have a high false negative rate
 
@Sherif Thanks, bookmarking these.
 
10:12 PM
Which actually isn't a bad thing. It doesn't mean you're a bad engineer. Just that they'd rather not hire the ones they should have hired rather than hire the ones they shouldn't have hired.
 
@Sherif - Let's be honest though, they get to be choosy, some companies do not have so much talent in the pool left
 
They're choosy, but it's because they're thorough. Not because they're dicks.
I've seen much less appealing companies do much worse in their hiring practices, to be honest.
 
@Sherif Absolutely, you don't get to being where they are by hiring the wrong people.
 
It's not for everyone. Some people prefer working at smaller companies where the "startup verve" is much bolder.
My advice is usually, pick the industry right, and the right company won't much matter in the long run.
 
@Sherif - Yeah I have worked at small 10 seats to one I am in now with thousands. I prefer bigger, I like working in a team - Although I get some people do not like that
 
10:17 PM
Also, if you really want to brush up before a Google interview or any similar elite tech-giant type company, I strongly recommend taking a look at topcoder.com and projecteuler.net - it's very good practice in general anyway.
 
@Sherif Although I hate having to wait days to get approval for an invoice
@Sherif Reading through some of your stuff on phpden.info - very good.
 
@EquinoxMatt Thanks, that was the breeding ground for an accelerator I just got funded for. The idea was to start a bootcamp to teach people to go from hobbyist to professional developer and land them a job in less than 6 months.
It turns out people aren't stupid. They were just setup to fail :)
 
10:47 PM
Morning
 
@salathe Shock how dare you write such questionable material on three mailing lists!
 
Anonymous
Is there any wrist watch (non-smart) that is programmable and created with any programming language?
 
@Danack do you mean not preventing the attack? but okay, that makes sense, thanks
 
yes, 'not'.
 
If only they'd blamed Bush for 9/11. Then ISIL wouldn't be around
 
@Danack wlep
 
hello
 
11:15 PM
@rdlowrey Is there any advantage of using unix domain sockets instead of TCP for IPC? Speed shouldn't be too relevant for the use cases here.
 
Hello everyone, I've got a question to ask, but I'm not quite sure where to ask it - there's probably no suitable chat room nor site to ask this. I apologize for off topic.
Does somebody here use public transport and sometime wondered how exactly do card readers inside bus works/what are they programmed in?
 
Anonymous
@Martin. I would assume they work in the same way as credit cards work. They connect to a mainframe computer where the account is processed via GPRS.
 
Anonymous
^ wild guess
 
@samayo okay, but the software which reads the card, shows your current card info and makes a nice sound?
 
Anonymous
Yes. How else would it be possible.
 
11:21 PM
I meant: how that software works.
Like what is it programmed in and what is it running on?
I once seen some kind of Linux starting on one of these devices, but even after that, I have no idea how would I implement my own UI & software on it standalone
 
Anonymous
Ah, that is the technical question. You have to find the answer by googling it.
 
Anonymous
It certainly isn't made with PHP. I can tell you that
 
Well, how would you Google this type of question?
Yeah, I know, that's why I said I know it's off topic. I've tried some googling for that, but found no satisfying results
 
The Oyster card is a form of electronic ticketing used on public transport in Greater London in the United Kingdom. It is promoted by Transport for London and is valid on travel modes across London including London Underground, London Buses, the Docklands Light Railway (DLR), London Overground, trams, some river boat services, and most National Rail services within the London fare zones. A standard Oyster card is a blue credit-card-sized stored-value contactless smartcard that can hold single tickets, period tickets and travel permits, which must be added to the card before travel. Passengers touch...
start from there, google the words.
 
Anonymous
For example the ORCA which is used for public transport is classified a smart card under public transport
 
Anonymous
11:26 PM
 
Anonymous
A contactless smart card is a contactless 13.56-MHz credential whose dimensions are credit-card size. Its embedded integrated circuits can store and sometimes process data and communicate with a terminal via radio waves. There are two broad categories of contactless smart cards. Memory cards contain non-volatile memory storage components, and perhaps some specific security logic. Contactless smart cards do contain read-only RFID called CSN (Card Serial Number) or UID, and a re-writeable smart card microchip that can be transcribed via radio waves. == OverviewEdit == A contactless smart card is...
 
I don't worry about how RFID cards work that much, not sure if you got my question, but Danack, that could be a good start. I worry just about software implemented in readers, what these readers run on and how is software processing these cards & give user options programmed/in what language
 
Google the chip named in that article gets to mifare.net/en/products/tools/mifare-sdk
 
That would give me an SDK for programming languages to implement such functionality, but still doesn't answer me how one would run a linux with custom UI/functionality and own "kiosk" like software
 
@Andrea Oh... Don't blame me for ambiguous docs
 
11:37 PM
Hmm
checks archive.org
 
@Martin. You'd have to write a whole load of code.....and use that SDK to interface with the card. Perhaps I have no idea what you're actually asking.
 
> For programmers with experience in Unicode processing the short answer to the question is that Tweet length is measured by the number of codepoints in the NFC normalized version of the text.
No, it was still clear-cut then.
 
Anonymous
@Martin. maybe java?
 
@samayo Yeah, I actually thought it could be java. Could I do run java app on linux with UI with no additional UI such as gnome?
 
Anonymous
@Martin. I highly doubt that. But ask around, I am the newbie here
 
11:44 PM
@Martin. apparently you want a window manager rather than a desktop manager.
 
Many languages support an "embedded" SAPI, which allows interfaces with custom hardware, including both Java and PHP
 
I'm just curious. Not a big plans with that. Imagine that you have a task to create Oyster card reader (I actually haven't seen it in action, never been to London), which has nice UI, shows you info about your card, shows "Hello Martin, welcome in bus". You have an option to buy a virtual ticket for your friend which have no Oyster card.

One option I have is Rapsberry PI with Rapsbian, with custom (Java?) software on it. But having advanced desktop UI would be an overkill
 
"Imagine that you have a task to create Oyster card reader " - I'm going to need more context. What terrible life choices did i make to get into such a situation?
 
Though a surprising number of embedded use Windows (I've seen lifts and airline/railway display boards using Windows) despite the fact that the h/w is custom
 
@Danack It's just an example. Why would it be a terrible thing to do?
 
11:47 PM
So it's not beyond the bounds of possibility that Oyster cards i/f with something built in Windows, even using VC
 
Real time systems are hard. Distributed payment systems are hard. Custom hardware is hard. Securing hardware that is in people's hands is hard.
 
@MarkBaker Yeah, I actually seen some like that many times. But imagine you want to run this on poor h/w and Windows (which can restart anytime due updates) would be an overkill, I think
 
Anonymous
you can always disable auto updates
 
You don't allow Windows updates, you run with a fixed version and don't vhange it
 
@MarkBaker Googled Windows VC but can't manage what is it exactly.
 
11:48 PM
@LeviMorrison I know, right! How dare I not mention NetBeans!
 
VC - Visual C
 
@Andrea Yep, totally. That's what they asked me to do.
 
@MarkBaker @samayo what if user tries to get out of current window (software)?
 
@salathe Seriously, you made that person uncomfortable.
 
@samayo Nope. If you don't have karma now, you can't have it. :)
 
11:49 PM
User doesn't have access to keyboard/etc to access the OS directly.... that's why it's embedded
 
Anonymous
:\
 
@LeviMorrison I'm totally not getting any sleep tonight. :(
 
Hey folks, not a php question, but how do you generally handle fetching data that you need globally throughout your site? Like a user, and their subscriptions (as an example). I shouldn't get that data on every request, I assume.
 
@MarkBaker they have touch screen
 
@salathe bias! BIAS!
 
11:50 PM
@Nick Why not? How about SESSIONs?
 
Touch screen is under program control..... it's custom hardware
The developers of lift systems or airline/train boards developing s/w on Windows aren't totally stupid
 
@Martin. I'm transitioning into back end development; this sort of thing is probably common sense to you, but I've done front end development for too long... lol
 
User interaction is extremely limited
 
@Andrea He's more than welcome to post a list of free open source IDEs and editors. :)
 
@MarkBaker How?
 
11:52 PM
Or, just NetBeans. :P
 
@Nick something wrong with what I've written?
 
@Martin. Nope
 
@Nick you mean, fetching something and then caching it for subsequent page loads?
Sessions fit the bill in that case
 
@Andrea Essentially, but on a per user basis
 
@Nick I don't think I quite understand why have you mentioned that
 
11:53 PM
@Nick Sessions can work then
 
@Martin. I'm just letting you know that I'm ignorant
Alright, thanks folks
 
By using dedicated hardware.... with an embedded version of Windows that works with a controlled set of interfaces to that h/w that limit the interaction it permits
Windows Embedded is a family of operating systems from Microsoft designed for use in embedded systems. Microsoft makes four different categories of operating systems for embedded devices targeting a wide market, ranging from small-footprint, real-time devices to point of sale (POS) devices like kiosks. Windows Embedded operating systems are available to original equipment manufacturers (OEMs), who make it available to end users preloaded with their hardware. == HistoryEdit == In mid-1999, Microsoft worked with VenturCom, for their Windows NT Embedded product. In early 2000, Microsoft decided that...
 
IIRC my crappy PHP social network would cache the profile image and name of the user in $_SESSION
 
@Andrea ok you are right...
 
@Andrea But not friends_count! :)
 
11:55 PM
@Andrea which is fine as long as you have no reason to invalidate the caches from external scripts…
 
@MarkBaker I haven't heard of Windows Embedded before :)
 
@Nick there's possibly two bits to the answer for that. The first is that I use a decent DIC library and can use the ability to delegate creation of objects to functions:
function createUserFromRequest(Session $session, UserRepo $userRepo) {
    $userID = $session->getVarible('userID');
    return $userRepo->getUser($userID);
}

$injector->delegate(User::class, 'createUserFromRequest');
 
@Martin. Really? It only runs half the ATMs in the world.
 
@Sherif I probably live in kind of technically old country
 
Albeit, a lot more banks are making the switch to linux these days.
 
11:56 PM
That is a very 'lazy' way of doing it as the setup is just a bunch of strings. Until something requests that a User is created, there's very little performance hit.
 
@Andrea and this is why you should cache it in a local redis instance by an userid and not a session toke in order to allow easy manipulation/invalidation
 
However......I also separate my application up into layers, and probably wouldn't have users created as 'global' objects, as they are only valid without 'contexts' not globally.
 
@Martin. Your ATMs could be running Windows Embedded and you just don't know it. It's not like it actually tells you it's Windows.
 
Also lol @ commenting on a four yearold question :P
 
@Sherif Yeah, that's probably it.
So, if I got it correctly, it's just version of Windows allowing you to have control of what you allow to users?
 
11:58 PM
I crashed the coffee machine at work - I inserted my fob, screen went blannk and then it rebooted into some kind of linux distro
 
@Martin. It's a version of Windows that runs on embedded systems.
 
I still haven't been able to reproduce it since
 
@EquinoxMatt Yeah, exactly! Amazing example! Wedding machine, damn, blame myself for not thinking about wedding machine.
@Sherif Would it work on Rapsberry Pi?
 
@Martin. - but until the point it crashed, it never occured to me what it might be running
 
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