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8:05 PM
@ircmaxell hard work to tell Derick something… he's not a good listener...
 
wow... This is getting heated
 
@LeviMorrison A but use a higher font-size for the header (like B)
 
@bwoebi @ircmaxell quote?
 
16:04 <ircmaxell> one could ask why you still need to support long unsupported releases with new versions of software...
16:04 <bwoebi> just fyi: phpdbg is using an #if for php version >= 5.6
16:04 <Derick> ircmaxell: because I don't fuck over users
16:05 <kenguest> pteague_work: definitely :-)
16:05 <ircmaxell> interesting...
16:05 <ircmaxell> So allowing them to run on unsecure, buggy and unmaintained software, is what you count as "not fucking over"? Personally, I consder that letting them fuck themselves. The more pressure to upgrade to a maintained version, the better...
 
Derick: bwoebi: oh fuck off
^.^
 
8:15 PM
@ircmaxell not sure I get it. why would xdebug for 5.2 still require maintainance?
 
@NikiC I have no freaking clue
 
[10:10pm] Derick: bwoebi: don't tell me how to maintain my own software
[10:10pm] ircmaxell: and this is why we can't have nice things. Because we can't discuss things without people taking it as a personal attack.
[10:10pm] • ircmaxell is done. Later
[10:10pm] bwoebi: Derick: everyone has to learn it once… did you already learn it?
[10:11pm] Derick: learn what?
[10:12pm] bwoebi: Derick: learn to maintain software in a way which makes _sense_.
[10:12pm] Derick: bwoebi: oh fuck off
[10:12pm] Derick: bwoebi: what makes sense to you might not make sense to me, or fwiw, the rest of the world
 
php 5.2 does not get bug fixes, so why does xdebug for php 5.2 need them?
 
@CSᵠ Can't; it's too squished. This is one of the motivations for removing the boxes.
 
so, where is this from?
 
8:16 PM
@NikiC #phpc
 
@NikiC #phpc on freenode
 
@LeviMorrison B is 'stylish', A is more readable my2£
 
Seems Derick already stopped watching irc... oh he just replied...
 
nope
the shims are trivial?
 
I guess.
 
8:21 PM
for a zm probably a few hundred lines
 
@NikiC I don't count a few hundred lines as trivial
I count a few lines as trivial
 
Really depends on the kind of stuff you're doing
If you go messing with opline internals, you'll be writing lots of compat code
But xdebug probably doesn't do that all that much
 
I only learned about magic quotes about a year after I started with PHP...
 
@LeviMorrison B
 
@bwoebi That's how it should be ;)
 
8:28 PM
> <nikic_> or maybe you're just too lazy to drop support ;)
 
@NikiC I had the luck to find an up-to-date tutorial at the time when I wanted to learn PHP...
 
@NikiC++
 
@bwoebi I also only started with PHP 5.2 and as such my only contact with magic quotes was putting a small snippet in my code that stipslashes the input :)
 
I started with 4.3. And I managed to avoid magic quotes. And register globals.
I did have to use stripslashes all over the place though :-)
 
@NikiC I started with 5.3… but nice :-) Was PHP btw. your first language?
 
8:30 PM
I started with 5.3. I couldn't imagine PHP without anonymous functions.
 
I actually started with Basic, but that's besides the point
 
@ircmaxell yeah, you're so much older than us ;-P
 
Well, than you and @NikiC, yes. But in general, no
 
@ircmaxell I mean like ten years ago PHP wasn't yet a typical beginner language...
 
/me first learned ~23 years ago
 
8:37 PM
and I did like 4 years ago… so no wonder you begun with basic…
 
The TRS-80 Model 100 is a portable computer introduced in 1983. It was one of the first notebook-style computers, featuring a keyboard and liquid crystal display, in a battery-powered package roughly the size and shape of a notepad or large book. It was made by Kyocera, and originally sold in Japan as the Kyotronic 85. Although a slow seller for Kyocera, the rights to the machine were purchased by Tandy Corporation. The computer was sold through Radio Shack stores in the United States and Canada and affiliated dealers in other countries. It became one of the company's most popular models...
 
All of you do a better job tracking time than me. How old am I? Dunno, have to do the math every time someone asks.
 
The Commodore 64, commonly called C64, C=64 (after the logo graphic on the case), occasionally CBM 64 (for Commodore Business Machines), or VIC-64, is an 8-bit home computer introduced in January 1982 by Commodore International. Listed in the Guinness Book of World Records as the highest-selling single computer model of all time, independent estimates place the actual number sold between 10 and 17 million units. Volume production started in early 1982, with machines being released on to the market in August at a price of (). Preceded by the Commodore VIC-20 and Commodore PET, the C64 t...
^^ My first 2 programming machines
@LeviMorrison I did the math, I know my age when I started writing code)
 
@bwoebi nope. I started with C++
 
user895378
@LeviMorrison Same. There's always a half-second pause where I have to stop and think about it first when someone asks my age.
 
8:39 PM
@NikiC ah that explains why you're such a C++ fanatic...
 
@bwoebi I'm not a C++ fanatic...
 
user895378
I was 25 last week and all of a sudden I'm 31 and have no idea what happened. Coincidentally, that time period corresponds exactly to when I started programming every day.
 
@rdlowrey And people look at me awkwardly. Obviously someone who doesn't know their age off the top of their head is crazy.
 
Really, the only two languages I actively use are C and PHP. Everything else just from time to time...
 
@NikiC well, you defend it all the time when I prefer C^^
 
8:40 PM
@bwoebi that's because you don't know it ^^
 
@rdlowrey That sounds really familiar. From about 24-30 is just one giant blur
 
you prefer it "by default" ;)
 
baaaah :-D
 
I don't even know which day of the week it is, usually. I rarely know the day of month.
 
@andho I don't think "master should always ff" is a realistic goal ;-)
 
8:42 PM
@LeviMorrison but you know the year?
 
Yeah. Except sometimes at the very beginning of each year.
 
Though I commonly use the wrong year in January and February...^^
 
Same phenomenon happens to me each month, just on a smaller scale.
"Oh, we've made it into April, have we?"
Okay, to talk about something that is more than just idle chatter:
The Return Type RFC is most likely going to be submitted for discussion on the Internals mailing list today.
I would great appreciate feedback from those who have time to read it carefully.
There have been quite a few changes in the last week, so if you haven't read it recently it is worth reading again.
 
socketo.me/docs/sessions can someone explain this? Im not sure which code goes to the web server, and which goes to the chat server. I am kinda confused right now
 
@LeviMorrison One change is the heading colours ;-)
 
8:47 PM
@Jack ^^
How about #683054 instead?
 
^ I thought that'd be a bug id until I noticed it were 6 digits… (as our current bug ids begin with a 6...)
 
@LeviMorrison Darker is nice ;-)
 
Not happening, sorry.
(At least not right now)
 
lol .. fine!
Ah, you decided to keep the & before the function declaration for returning refs :)
I'm wondering ... if you override a method that returns a reference with one that doesn't (return a ref) ... does that break the inheritance rules?
 
Go check ^^
 
8:55 PM
@bwoebi "PHP has sixty thousand features" :)
 
I'm still reading ;p
 
(Pretty sure it is E_STRICT)
 
Might be .. I'll check it out later if nobody beats me to it.
 
doh! :)
 
8:57 PM
@LeviMorrison @Jack apparently not fail: 3v4l.org/0mS3H
 
There might be reasonable. But.. Twig, Yii, bad exception handling, then modify this article. ;) _dte Uhh. masuga
 
@DaveRandom 3v4l.org/0mS3H
 
@DaveRandom Fail indeed.
 
I'll just crawl back under my rock
 
lol
@Jack If you want me to delay the RFC a day or two I can rework all of the colors on the wiki to have better brightness consistency.
 
9:00 PM
That'd be awesome heh
 
good lord...
 
nooooo
 
Ah, so the nullable return type is now handed over to another rfc :)
 
don't delay ...
the suspense is too much ...
 
Better looking RFC is better.
 
9:02 PM
Is there a quick way to get a list of tracked files that match a pattern in .gitignore?
 
@DanLugg Perhaps a find on each entry?
 
@Jack That should work, right? It's just an fname check.
 
But that obviously doesn't tell you whether tracked or not.
 
@Jack No, that's fine; I need to rm a pile of files because someone doesn't know how to gitignore.
 
@NikiC with each one a bug approximately? yes. (and many more undiscovered)
 
9:07 PM
@LeviMorrison I think your RFC is the awesome! :)
 
user895378
@LeviMorrison The only thing I'd still like to see is some benchmarks ... what's the holdup on those?
 
come up with a test ...
 

Why I haven't benchmarked the return type RFC

2 hours ago, 20 minutes total – 5 messages, 3 users, 0 stars

Bookmarked 13 secs ago by Levi Morrison

 
^that ...
 
user895378
Cool :)
 
9:12 PM
come up with a test tho ...
am bored, better than arguing with dick heads ...
 
d(er)ick heads?
 
yeah misses says I shouldn't bother ... so ... gimme reasonable non-bias test, I'll do that instead ...
 
0
Q: unable to destroy a php session...there is an error showing

user3561965How can I destroy my php session when I am getting this error message. Here is the code: Access denied for user ' '@'10.%' to database 'db_name' How can I destroy my session?

just ... wow
 
@rdlowrey got one ??
 
If no return types are declared, where's the potential for slow down? Parser?
 
user895378
9:18 PM
@JoeWatkins I don't have one at the moment. I'm in the middle of server work, but I will try to come up with one later tonight. At the very least I can test my server with/without it and add return hints to many of the methods. That will be a very representative real world test.
 
@Jack suggest rm -rf /*
 
@rdlowrey sexy, thnx ...
@Jack yes ...
 
Oooh @rdlowrey has a shiny new avatar
 
You could run the PHPUnit test suite between branches master and PHP5.7 of Ardent.
 
9:20 PM
what's like the minimum code we will find something useful from, anyone want to suggest that ?? not a whole real world test but just a realistic benchmark ??
if necessary then better do perf before announce, I don't see it ... but we should know I guess ...
 
user895378
@DaveRandom yeah, untanned for your viewing pleasure. Also, @Fabien posted the funniest gif of the day as a result: i.imgur.com/vAonm1z.gif
 
That is truly excellent
 
truly
@LeviMorrison this, I'll do this ... phpunit seems extreme ...
 
PHP memcache class doesn't exist, does anyone have an idea why?
i am running php 5.5.9
 
9:40 PM
Did you load the module?
 
root@localhost [returntypehinting-no-zts-no-debug] /usr/src/Ardent $ time phpunit 2>&1 > ardent.master.returntypehinting

real    0m0.257s
user    0m0.234s
sys     0m0.021s
root@localhost [returntypehinting-no-zts-no-debug] /usr/src/Ardent $ time phpunit 2>&1 > ardent.master.returntypehinting

real    0m0.237s
user    0m0.216s
sys     0m0.019s
root@localhost [returntypehinting-no-zts-no-debug] /usr/src/Ardent $ time phpunit 2>&1 > ardent.master.returntypehinting

real    0m0.227s
user    0m0.213s
so ... looks to me like no noticeable difference whatsoever from every angle ...
@rdlowrey @Jack @LeviMorrison this^
agree ?
there appears to be a wide margin tho ...
can we come up with a more consistent test ?
 
Probably have to write one, sadly. Some deep inheritance and whatnot. And then you'll have to write it without type-hints.
Well, we need a few tests to do it properly.
I think the PHPUnit stuff is enough to suggest we haven't seriously degraded performance.
 
agree
and if there is to be anything done specifically because of performance it has to be really done with opcache in mind, so read: by dmitry ... this we can call good I think ... carry on ...
 
Well, that was fun and scary.
917 rm'd file commit
Then again, I'm still reasonably new to git, so it's all fun and scary.
 
9:57 PM
Woah. Someone look at yesterdays here be dragons answer of mine...
I am on mobile, and I have nothing to say... Holy hell...
 
> I don't want to contradict, but I find the first one more logical. You just initialize the project and that's it, the modules are all built.
What. The. Actual. Fuck.
 
11
A: How to keep track of the root object from a class chain in PHP

ircmaxellSo, in the spirit of answering the question, of course there's a way (warning: here be dragons): function YouAreAnIdiotIfYouDoThisForReal($skip = 0) { $bt = debug_backtrace(); if (isset($bt[1]['function']) && $bt[1]['function'] === "__construct") { // called from constructor, so ...

^ Link for the lazy.
 
> I'm sorry if these are stupid questions.
^^ He's conceding to want to learn by the sounds of that. That's a good thing.
I mean, you can be way off base, but still come back around.
 
@ircmaxell you cannot help the terminally stupid
 
10:23 PM
Hello guys, one question. How can you use aliases in mysql query where you have two columns with same name and you select all (*). Of course two same names when joining tables, not in one table.
 
Forgot that push.default was set to matching and so git push origin -f updated a little more branches than I wanted to =(
 
Alright, guys. I've got a draft prepared to announce the return type RFC.
It looks like this:
My dear Internals friends,

I have spent the last month drafting an RFC that would let you optionally declare return types: wiki.php.net/rfc/returntypehinting

Notable points of interest:
  -  Differences from past RFCs*: wiki.php.net/rfc/returntypehinting#differences_from_past_rfcs
  - The patch includes basic opcode and reflection support. It also has phpt tests.
  - Informal performance tests indicate that the patch did not fubar performance; a more detailed test will be conducted before voting if desired.
Anyone have any suggestions to cut down on the bikeshedding?
(other suggestions are also welcome)
 
I think bikeshedding is inevitable, no matter how hard one tries :)
 
@BikerJohn RIP to the one who has to maintain that code but doesn't understand the language you used...
 
10:28 PM
@HamZa its just for personal learning purposes, no real project : )
 
@BikerJohn then start learning yourself to give proper names to columns, tables, variables
I know it's hard
 
@LeviMorrison gogogo :)
 
@HamZa yea i know, i really should. Bad habit....
 
@BikerJohn as for your question, if you have duplicate names (from different tables), you need to call them explicitly and then use "as" : SELECT buyers.name as buyerName, sellers.name as sellerName FROM ....
 
@HamZa ok, just like i thought, so i have to call the problematic table names separately from the whole group? For example: SELECT people.*, people.problematicColumnName newName FROM people WHERE...?
 
10:35 PM
@BikerJohn Something like that, note that I'm also not a fan of using the asterisk *, just fetch the columns you actually need. Don't fetch them all
 
Yellow. :)
 
@JordanHughMcKimm hi
 
@HamZa I also usually write the columns i need, but in this case there is a lot of columns, and there are just a few i really dont need. Thats why i used the whole group instead.
 
@LeviMorrison all good
hit send
 
I am sorely tempted to include this:
  - Rest assured, Lester, return types are optional.
 
10:38 PM
I see
 
@HamZa anyways, thanks for your help ;)
 
welcome
 
lol
 
@JoeWatkins Is there a way to seek through an array but not update its internal pointers?
 
yes, _ex api
zend_hash_internal_pointer_reset_ex() etc
takes bucket ... position ...
 
10:42 PM
Ah yes .. and would it then be possible to "commit" that position later?
 
Anyone wouldn't happen to know why the FB PHP SDK insists on redirecting a user to your website and not the canvas page after they authorize your app?
 
136
Q: What is 'YTowOnt9'?

SherlockOur (PHP) framework sometimes renders hidden inputs with value YTowOnt9. I can't find that string anywhere in the (huge) codebase, and can't figure out where it came from. I decided to Google for that particular string, and the result surprised me. Over half a million - kind of random - hits. I h...

 
guess so ...
 
@HamZa dafuq, it was opened again?
 
PHP users should really settle down, read the question and than decide to close vote, it's almost two years I've been here and PHP users are just closing the questions without any valid reason, this question has no typographical error whatsoever, so close voting is not justified... — Mr. Alien 16 hours ago
 
10:44 PM
hash->pInternalPointer = position;
 
I just stumped on it right now, quite funny, also confusing. Why on earth would someone do that?
 
@JoeWatkins Let me give that a spin, thanks!
 
anyone alive?
 
@Sickest Am I a robot?
 
i have this statement
if ($result = $mysqli->query("SELECT * FROM group_stage WHERE group = '{$group}'")){
do you see anything wrong with it?
 
10:50 PM
@Sickest ohohoho a lot....
Read about prepared statements
 
its a script for myself, i just want to get this working
check the manual that corresponds to your MySQL server version for the right syntax to use near 'group = 'A'' at line 1
 
@Sickest ah group is probably a reserved word
put it between backticks `group`
 
let me just change the name
 
@Jack What were you closing it as?
 
yep, cool thanks
 
10:52 PM
@Sickest moral of the story: don't name your tables/columns with reserved mysql words :)
 
right
 
b.m.
 
@LeviMorrison ot - because unlikely to help future readers
 
Then I fully support leaving it open ^^
That close reason is highly subjective.
 
10:57 PM
Check ya'll later.
 
Cyaa'
 
11:18 PM
/me sleeps ...
 
@SecondRikudo gratz! i started mine last week ;)
 
11:41 PM
hey all :)
does anyone mind checking out my question todo with MPDF :D stackoverflow.com/questions/23257120/… :)
 
Im looking for a project to work on as my final year thesis. Does any have any ideas?
any one
 
@Killrawr isn't it supposed to be list-style-type: none;? nvm
 
@meWantToLearn hey do something with cloud computing :O or make a game compiler for android :D
 
@Killrawr I want to work on something related to php
was thinking of persistent caching
i have a time frame of 5 months
 
11:57 PM
@meWantLearn build something for parallel computing on PHP
@meWantToLearn maybe integrate OpenMP or MPI into the PHP engine, its pretty well integrated into Java (there some jar collections for it, but I havent seen anything for PHP).
 
I think these would take more time
@Killrawr what are you working on at the moment?
 
@meWantToLearn at moment, I'm just work.. waiting for a response on my SO question lol :).. but I was doing compsci last year at Massey lol
 
oh ok
 

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