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user784668
14:00
where hyper(n, x, y) is the n-th hyperoperator.
(or at least in second-world areas as well)
@ShotgunNinja That is a first world problem. In the third world, people don't leave enough food around for the cockroaches to live on.
Is there such a thing as the second world, I wonder?
@LucDanton Not unless you return multiple ranges.
Or is it just "first" and "third"?
14:01
Right. Those are (will be) tuples.
Yeah. I was gonna say, it's not a third-world problem because there aren't exterminators in third-world countries.
Or apartments.
@LucDanton Oh, I keep thinking of the hetero variety :S (my mind is wired for join, I guess)
@scott I like you because you are a chocolate lab who uses the internet
@ScottW Well, there are the bombed-out varieties...
looks chocolate on my screen lol
GCC plans to release glowing plants to the environment.
C++03 ranges gets 'lifted' in via an iterator_range -- because I'm using concepts::IteratorRange to refer to the old (quasi) concept. And because iterator_range_range is dumb I suppose. What do I call the member that is the wrapped range though? original_range? original_iterator_range?
@LucDanton Something like source_iterators perhaps? Except that carries the connotation of being the source in a source->destination kind of algorithm, which you don't really want.
man
it's taken me two hours to fix a bug in Wide because it takes Clang ten minutes to parse the Windows headers and actually get to the offending code.
perhaps I should consider in future including less C++ headers in my test cases
Do you have a way to test for regressions of that bug? :P
14:05
no
sort(tuggo.begin(), tuggo.end());
cout << "I heard you like sorting, so I called a function that sorts.";
Man I'm funny.
Whew
@JerryCoffin The iterator_range really keeps a hand on the range though, not just the iterator. So it'll be source_range. You do raise a great point, because an obvious optimization is to just keep the iterators around if the range outlives the iterator_range. Something on the back of my mind and I'll worry about what to name what when the time comes. Thanks.
well, since I have just written a library component that depends on it not being buggy, if the compiler were to regress, the library component would error (as long as you had a program that actually used it)
And btw they really act as a source most of the time anyway I think. The value of being interoperable is playing nice with e.g. std::vector, not the Boost.Range cruft.
> for(auto&& l: list.tested_range.source_range)
Free readability improvements, woo!
@LucDanton Seems reasonable, now that you mention it -- you're basically creating the range as temporary, and (like temporaries in general) it's fair for it to act like a quasi-const.
@JerryCoffin If you go std::vector<int> v; auto r = range::forward_as_traversable(v); then no copy of v is made (that's where I can do the optimization). If you go std::vector<int> v; auto r = range::forward_as_traversable(std::move(v)); then r embeds its own vector, so you can e.g. return that and later iterate over it and it's fine.
@R.MartinhoFernandes You know, I made that exact joke when I was 13. Remembering that embarrasses me.
Right now I don't have an option to specify 'please embed my source, but expose it onwards as const'. Would be nice though.
@DeadMG "Pleasuretown"?
Well, I need to go for a while. Talk to you all later.
14:12
Ciao!
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well, he said "Paris", but meant the same thing.
@R.MartinhoFernandes No.
@LucDanton is it normal that GraphViz needs a couple tries to draw a graph? half the time it finds a syntax error, then it doesn't and draws it fine...
user784668
@melak47 no
(for the same graph, mind you)
14:15
Tbh It's been an aeon since I've last used it.
@melak47 Did you save?
@R.MartinhoFernandes not exactly
even with saving the gv
Anyone want to donate an old computer? I fear mine is on it's last leg.
every 4th time I layout the graph...it fails o_O
Please don't send me ricin though.
14:17
@R.MartinhoFernandes Of course not. Only Jesus saves.
what, you can't execute code on ricin?
@EtiennedeMartel Everyone else takes 2d6 damage.
@DeadMG You can only execute yourself.
user784668
@EtiennedeMartel don't forget to fork before executing yourself.
I can barely execute code on this laptop, maybe the ricin would work.
wouldn't you rather that I just dumped you in a nuclear reactor
14:22
@ScottW Java?
@ScottW What's the problem with that?
posted on June 07, 2013 by Herb Sutter

What does auto do on variable declarations, exactly? And how should we think about auto? In this GotW, we’ll start taking a look at C++’s oldest new feature.   Problem JG Questions 1. What is the oldest C++11 feature? Explain. 2. What does auto mean when declaring a local variable? Guru Questions 3. In the […]

posted on June 07, 2013 by Herb Sutter

Why prefer declaring variables using auto? Let us count some of the reasons why…   Problem JG Question 1. In the following code, what actual or potential pitfalls exist in each labeled piece of code? Which of these pitfalls would using auto variable declarations fix, and why or why not? // (a)void traverser( const vector<int>& […]

Woa, Herb, calm down.
@EtiennedeMartel For loop, nulls.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Hmmm.
user784668
14:24
@EtiennedeMartel Java
Oh, you haters.
The worst part is that I don't understand the answer.
Do I mark the operator() of operators::front constexpr or not, and why do I have to ask myself the question?
user784668
@LucDanton ask @LucDanton
@LucDanton I don't think it's useful unless you get mutable stuff in constexpr in the future.
user784668
14:30
@R.MartinhoFernandes Friday
If checks are read from top to bottom right?
@R.MartinhoFernandes Already in C++14, I thought.
When they are nested that is.
Let me try to write a constexpr range. Which elements are all 42.
@LucDanton The only argument against constexpr is the implicit const.
14:30
@Potatoswatter It's an operator version of a free-standing function, so stateless.
Why is it printing the bottom if check first?
@LucDanton Hmm, ok.
user784668
@LucDanton repeat 42?
@user2442335 Because tuggo.size() != 2?
@Fanael ye
14:31
Oh wait, repeat is not replicate.
@DeadMG ouch.
user784668
@R.MartinhoFernandes repeat is replicate infinity
@Fanael repeat = cycle . (:[])
@R.MartinhoFernandes So when I type in 11 12, it reads them in one at a time executing the if check?
user784668
14:32
@R.MartinhoFernandes :[]
Can't have constexpr void return type right?
@Fanael There's no singleton for lists :S
user784668
@LucDanton constexpr function's return type 'void' is not a literal type
So maybe I should relax the range requirements for what must currently be void returning functions to the usual 'unused return value' shtick. Opinions?
@DeadMG Really? What can you mutate in constexpr?
Xeo
Xeo
14:35
@R.MartinhoFernandes pointers.
IIRC
And local stuff
I'm just going to assume this is appropriate, "fuck off"
22
Q: Why do we need to mark functions as constexpr?

PotatoswatterC++11 allows functions declared with the constexpr specifier to be used in constant expressions such as template arguments. There are stringent requirements about what is allowed to be constexpr; essentially such a function encapsulates only one subexpression and nothing else. If it's so hard to...

user784668
@R.MartinhoFernandes in D, you can mutate quite a lot in a compile-time-evaluated function
@Potatoswatter That says nothing...
constexpr doesn't stop you from mutating anything. The enclosed function doesn't have to be a constant expression.
14:37
Except for start and next which I decorated with an int return type instead of the usual void, I can in fact write a constexpr range. I still think it's dumb though.
@Potatoswatter It has to be something that can be one.
@R.MartinhoFernandes No diagnostic required.
@R.MartinhoFernandes If you declare a local variable, you can call non-const functions on it that are constexpr. That's why constexpr no longer implies const.
@Potatoswatter Erm, no difference.
@DeadMG Ah, that wouldn't help then.
Fellow owners, I have a question. Who's leaving us?
14:40
@R.MartinhoFernandes Not sure what you mean by the edit, but the citation is §7.1.5/5
@DeadMG Latter just for non-static member functions or everything else as well?
@Potatoswatter It makes no difference whether a diagnostic is required.
It's still not a well-formed C++ program.
@EtiennedeMartel cat left
@LucDanton Dunno
@R.MartinhoFernandes You can mutate anything you like as long as it's protected by a &&/||/?: branch.
user784668
14:41
@thecoshman cat's a commie?
I'm going with non-static member functions only. I can't imagine the fundamentals of constexpr changing.
@thecoshman Woa.
@Potatoswatter Now go back to the start and explain how that is helpful.
No diagnostic is required because the diagnostic would be 1. impossible and 2. useless.
@Fanael o_0
14:42
@Potatoswatter lol
@EtiennedeMartel very suddenly too, offloaded wiki ownership/administration to tony, do-ownered himself, then was gone, like a fart in the wind
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well, at this point must admit I have no idea what you were actually talking about before i came here.
@thecoshman It's not surprising, seeing how depressed and stressed out he seemed.
user784668
So, now that cat's gone, we have to tac file.foo | tac?
dat pun gave me cancer
14:46
> How to convert Unicode consortium to unicode use PHP.
user784668
@R.MartinhoFernandes wtf
Biggest dust bunny ever witnessed by Man: universetoday.com/102542/alma-and-the-comet-factory
@ScottW I'm pretty sure it's illegal.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Cette syntaxe.
-5
Q: How to convert Unicode consortium to unicode use PHP

user33855beginner always have a question stupid (Sorry that ^^). Please help me!. How to convert Unicode consortium to unicode use PHP.

14:49
so... JEE... we meet at least
lol
@R.MartinhoFernandes Aaaand we have a winner!
convert the Unicode consortium to Unicode? :D
"The Unicode Consortium is PEOPLE!" — Jack Maney 3 mins ago
14:52
that is the most appropriate "They're made out of meat" ever.
I don't think so.
"Would a baby die if I put it in the freezer?" "Hmmm, yes, highly likely... Why the fuck do you want to know that?" "They are made out of meat!" was my favourite so far.
sort(tuggo.end(), tuggo.begin()); //try and avoid negative numbers.

is this not allowed? once I added it my code started crashing saying invalid iteration range
static bool empty(Self const& self)
{
    tuples::fold(
            annex::operators::logical_or {}
            , false
            , tuples::transform(
                self.zipped_ranges
                , operators::empty {} ) );
}
No warning?!
Anyway, easiest forward traversal zipped range ever.
@user2442335 You need reverse iterators: sort(tuggo.rbegin(), tuggo.rend());
@user2442335 What does "avoid" mean in this context? It averts its eyes?
14:56
Reverse iterators?
Just what you need for iterating in reverse!
@user2442335 std::reverse_iterator
in wordpress, when I copy the title 'Nhân ThiêÌ£n Mỹ' from another website (used Unicode consortium) and paste to my post title, the slug display special characters 'nhan-thiẹn-mỹ'. So I want my slug display like 'nhan-thien-my'. Sorry my English. — user33855 2 mins ago
avoid as in, don't let the sum of tuggo[0] and tuggo[1] become a negative
It's an adaptor class which swaps the meaning of + and - in iterator arithmetic.
14:57
Ah okay gotcha, I see the term iteration a lot. :P
Turns out "converting the Unicode Consortium to Unicode" meant "remove any diacritics". Come on. WTF. How the fuck.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Also lowercase and add hyphens
Now I'm interested to know if he's Vietnamese. I suspect he isn't, and he's asking to produce gibberish for foreign users.
@DeadMG Yeah, but that he apparently has already.
So, how can I convert International Standards Organization to C++?
And by that I mean, how do I sort a vector in reverse order.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Surround it with #if 0 … #endif
@R.MartinhoFernandes And by that, you mean how do you perform a sort but prevent any negative numbers in the result :)
15:02
Someone have a baby, name it #endif\n#warning lol\n#include </dev/stdin>\n#if 0\n and put it on the SC!
What would you lads say to be the maximum kB (for images) a user should at most download per web request?
100kB?
Anyway, I fixed the question and voted reopen. Sigh.
@Jeffrey AFAIK, it's one resource per request, ie one image per request
@R.MartinhoFernandes To bidi zip or not to bidi zip?
@thecoshman yeah, I would gather all the images in a single sprite file (like SO does) but how much should that file weight?
15:04
Definitely not like D.
And probably not without requiring matching lengths.
user784668
@LucDanton bidi zip
@Jeffrey IIRC there is no hard limit, but you have to consider that if it takes too long it might time out and has the chance of the transaction failing
It's weird if zip(a, b) does not include a.back() and b.back() at some point.
So I provide it, burden on the caller?
user784668
15:07
@LucDanton ya
Let's do this!
user784668
@LucDanton if someone can't get the ranges passed to zip right, they have no business programming.
> Click the title to play another status code.
aw man
it's one of those shitstorms where the rate of player fire isn't controlled by something sane, like time, but something completely arbitrary and unpredictable, like whether or not the player hit something yet
@DeadMG huh? what you on about?
user784668
15:12
5 mins ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
http://www.masswerk.at/404
@DeadMG Isn't that how the original played?
I just beat 500.
@R.MartinhoFernandes I think so
@R.MartinhoFernandes Who cares?
imitating suck isn't a valid excuse to suck
@DeadMG It's not meant to be something you go there to play... It's meant as a nod to the original...
Also, the only reason you don't like that mechanic is because it is annoying.
@ScottW Shoot them.
Easiest random-access zip ever.
user784668
15:17
@ScottW Threaten the coworkers with lead.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Which, I generally consider to be a pretty valid reason to hate a mechanic.
@DeadMG It's not photorealism. It's space invaders for god's sake. You can kill them very quickly if they're close to you, but only if you don't miss. If you miss, it takes a long time. Of course the reason is that it's designed to work on hardware that can only animate one bullet at a time.
@ScottW convince them to use unit tests.
Hello, I am making an HBITMAP. It displays but it has a visual defect. Can anyone look at the defective image and possibly determine what's going on?
@perfanoff no.
15:27
Easiest random-access zip unit tests ever.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Also, it's the future now. I want my mass driver.
Thanks anyway abyx, lol.
@perfanoff no problems, just gtfo already
Okay, time for a break. And possibly a mango.
@Abyx You're so kind.
15:28
yep, sort of
maaan.....
@EtiennedeMartel why don't you look at his image? maybe it has some ponies on it
@Potatoswatter I am quite aware. However, I doubt that the web version was intended to target an Amiga. There's a big difference between photorealism and simple intuitive mechanics that the user expects.
it doesn't have ponies *in it.
@Abyx I doubt it. With my luck, it's going to be a huge penis, and it'll appear on my screen just as my boss passes behing me.
I have no problem with large penises, but my boss does.
15:30
@EtiennedeMartel huge penis is still better than ponies.
it contains coca-cola cans but it's distorted.
@DeadMG Amiga was multitasking, 32-bit… expectations depend on the user.
and the rightmost 1/4 is black
@Potatoswatter Whatever. My point is the same.
@perfanoff check stride. maybe you use 24bpp and stride should be divisible by 4
15:32
@DeadMG They expect the user to expect Space Invaders.
thanks, I'll try that.
delphi sucks. bad delphi code sucks even more =\
Honestly they're space invaders, not space tourists in golf carts. So they go faster!
why all that crappy languages were invented in the first place? =\
@Abyx You definitely need more ponies in your life.
@DeadMG, Easter Egg Critic.
15:36
@EtiennedeMartel I don't like ponies.
And who needs more huge penises?
@R.MartinhoFernandes Considering how homophobic he is, I'm guessing not him.
I like how I got to use "more huge" correctly.
user142019
@R.MartinhoFernandes ME ME ME
@R.MartinhoFernandes Should have gone for "huger".
15:36
@EtiennedeMartel If it sucks, why not be critical of it?
games are for the playin', y'know.
@DeadMG Not necessarily.
@EtiennedeMartel That would mean something else.
@DeadMG 404 pages are not for playing.
@R.MartinhoFernandes I know.
@DeadMG In this case, it's not a game. It's an easter egg that happens to be a nod to an old game.
@DeadMG like the Game of Life, yep
@Abyx That's not a game, despite the name.
15:38
well, actually you can play with it
@Abyx I thought it was a game too, until work. now I just feel lied to
lol, that's not what he meant.
@Abyx In the same sense that LEGO is not a game.
The Game of Life, also known simply as Life, is a cellular automaton devised by the British mathematician John Horton Conway in 1970. The "game" is a zero-player game, meaning that its evolution is determined by its initial state, requiring no further input. One interacts with the Game of Life by creating an initial configuration and observing how it evolves. Rules The universe of the Game of Life is an infinite two-dimensional orthogonal grid of square cells, each of which is in one of two possible states, alive or dead. Every cell interacts with its eight neighbours, which are the c...
Actually, wait. No, it's not the same.
LEGO is a toy. GoL isn't.
15:39
Oooh, breader on the onebox.
@EtiennedeMartel Why isn't it a toy?
Cellular automata can be proper games… I used one to implement Tetris once. (Extremely constrained hardware, TTL chips.)
A zero-player game is a game that has no sentient players. In computer games, the term refers to programs that use artificial intelligence rather than human players. Conway's Game of Life, a cellular automaton devised in 1970 by the British mathematician John Horton Conway, is considered a zero-player game because its evolution is determined by its initial state, requiring no further input from humans. In addition, Some fighting and real-time strategy games can be put into zero-player mode by placing one AI against another. See also * Single-player game * Two-player game * Multiplayer ...
@R.MartinhoFernandes It has its own set of victory and defeat conditions.
@EtiennedeMartel It has?
How do you win?
Xeo
Xeo
@Fanael: I seem to remember a defect-report about std::array<T,N> a{{ ... }};, or rather, brace-elision for structs like std::array.
15:41
@R.MartinhoFernandes Good point.
@EtiennedeMartel A video or static image would work just as well.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Then why make it playable?
@R.MartinhoFernandes "A game is structured play"
@DeadMG It's not a game just because it's interactive.
That's the mistake the Japanese make with their crappy RPGs.
@DeadMG Because Space Invaders was playable.
@Xeo I recall a brace elision defect too, but the array initialization issue I'm aware of is/was a GCC bug.
15:42
was playable.
@EtiennedeMartel I actually kinda like some JRPGs.
@DeadMG Last one I really enjoyed was MOTHER 3.
@EtiennedeMartel Hmmm, the only one I ever actually played to any particular depth was FF8.
You should try EarthBound.
What makes a game a JRPG?
@R.MartinhoFernandes It belongs to the "JPRG" genre.
Which is a very bad term.
Xeo
Xeo
15:45
cue Extra Credits link
Because it's not really an RPG.
@Xeo You mean all three of them?
Xeo
Xeo
heh
Because it was a three part video.
@EtiennedeMartel What is that genre is what I asked.
@R.MartinhoFernandes It's made in Japan, it's heavily story driven, and usually features things commonly associated with role playing games, such as character growth and equipment management.
By "heavily", I mean the game might as well be an interactive film.
Xeo
Xeo
15:47
@EtiennedeMartel Eh
@ScottW SMRPG, Paper Mario 1 & 2, FF6, MOTHER 2 & 3, Chrono Trigger
That's off the top of my head.
@ScottW Well, if they are not "heavily story driven" as Etienne put it, and feature RPG features, you might as well just call them RPGs because there's no distinguishing feature.
I stopped playing JRPGs after they switched to the "Let's add a bunch of boring turn based combat sequences to a generic shonen!" formula.
Xeo
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Watch the EC video I linked
15:52
@ScottW Oh, also FF Tactics Advance.
I like turn based combat. I like it a lot. But ATB-style systems are always... sucky.
Thanks Abyx it worked. Damn that invisible alpha channel.
Xeo
Xeo
@EtiennedeMartel I liked that you could turn that off in the FF series (atleast 7 & 9)
@Xeo Even then, it's not involving or deep enough.
@ScottW Ah, yes. That.
Xeo
Xeo
Advance Wars. <3
I loved playing the shit out of that.
@ScottW In my opinion, there's a lot of shit in there.
There's lot of potential with turn-based systems. But FF always devolved to "Spam whatever the current enemy is weak to".
Xeo
Xeo
15:54
Time to go home. Later.
@ScottW Sturgeon's Law, yes.
FF6 was a masterpiece.
Then it all went downhill.
Never played it.
That might explain a few things.
@ScottW You mean lens flares and explosions?
Wanna know what had great aesthetic? EarthBound. Because they actually reinforced the game's message and atmosphere.
Everything was colourful and bright and cutsy, which makes it very jarring when you start battling cosmic horrors.
@ScottW The game is about a child growing up and becoming an adult.
It also completely messes up the concepts of good and evil (the final boss isn't even a bad guy).
Sure, there are jokes, but that's only the surface level.
Underneath, it's one of the shiniest examples of interactive storytelling ever made.

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