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00:00
@DomagojPandža In my case, the map file would reference models externally, so models could be edited and changed separetely.
I personally think a rubber duck would make a more apt logo for SO the the current thing... yes I do see what it is supposed to be, but ducks are better
I must ask, etymology of the rubber-duck term?
Rubber duck debugging, rubber ducking, and the rubber duckie test are informal terms used in software engineering to refer to a method of debugging code. The name is a reference to a likely apocryphal story in which an unnamed expert programmer would keep a rubber duck by his desk at all times, and debug his code by forcing himself to explain it, line-by-line, to the duck. To use this process, a programmer explains code to an inanimate object, such as a rubber duck, with the expectation that upon reaching a piece of incorrect code and trying to explain it, the programmer will notice the e...
AHAHAHAH
I can't believe that's a thing. :$
@DomagojPandža totally works too :(
00:02
I do talk to myself sometimes, for similar purposes.
I can't even count how many times I started to explain a problem in this chat and then realized what I was doing wrong
I like "See also: Pair programming"
Oh, that's still reasonable. I walk around town and sometimes when I contemplate something complex, I start talking to myself out loud and people watch me like I'm retarded or something.
Everyone rubber ducks, only dicks will refuse that they do it, or that they even had a problem in the first place
Especially so because my brain "thinks" in English, not Croatian.
any way, night bitches
00:03
Yeah... I don't want JSON...
In fact, I think I want my syntax to not use braces at alll {}
Ell
Ell
Yaml :3
NOOOOOO not Yaml q_q
user142019
Is ogonek::text constructable from a begin-end iterator pair from another ogonek::text?
@DomagojPandža That surprises me :)
Anything that parses based solely on whitespace and indentation sucks ass.
00:05
@sehe, you're foreigner, too. When you think, what language does your brain use?
@Zoidberg no. Just pass the text directly ~
@thecoshman "will refuse"? That's a rather largish typo for "will deny" :)
user142019
@R.MartinhoFernandes I only want part of the text.
user142019
I have begin-end iterator pair of somewhere in the middle of a text A and I want to create a text B of that.
00:06
@DomagojPandža Mmmm. Me-language :) The conscious parts of thought depend, for me. But I highly doubt that this is the most relevant part to thought.
@Zoidberg You can pass a range. Maybe I should support iterators directly too.
user142019
@R.MartinhoFernandes ohh that's nice. Thanks.
(boost::make_iterator_range)
Yeah, but I literally "hear" myself in English. Sometimes it freaks me out.
user142019
I'll check it out.
00:07
After large burns of code work, when I reenter society, I sometimes try to speak and almost start in English.
@DomagojPandža I formulate in the target language. That can even be C#. But, yes, in chat I formulate in English. This is likely why I always make code comments in English, even though I work on Dutch-only projects (where the domain models have Dutch names etc.) often.
People sometimes think that's strange.
user142019
@R.MartinhoFernandes works great. (Y)
Woah, regardless of the developer audience, I cannot force myself into a Croatian naming nomenclature. Just feels wrong. :D
@Zoidberg what is that emoticon? A bust?
user142019
@sehe thumbs up.
00:09
@sehe Thumbs up, the kids love it. :D
@DomagojPandža yeah. Well, Croatian....
user142019
Y as in yes.
Ell
Ell
I admire you all for knowing English so well
@sehe zoid stampt of aproval
@Zoidberg Aha. That explains why I failed to see any visual semblance
00:10
@Zoidberg Are you using clang btw?
Ell
Ell
Esp. Zoidberg. You are 18 for flips sake how do you have such a good grasp on a foreign language?
user142019
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yes.
@MooingDuck Zoid stampt met zijn voeten /c @Zoid
I haven't tested the code in clang in a while, but cool, it seems it still works :)
@Ell How old are you? :D
Ell
Ell
00:11
17
@DomagojPandža not old enough
@R.MartinhoFernandes You mean, it compiles?
Ell
Ell
I can speak a little Spanish and French.
But very little
@Ell I can read a very little spanish :(
Ell
Ell
00:12
Growing up in England limits my exposure to any other language
user142019
@R.MartinhoFernandes clang++ -std=c++11 -pedantic-errors -Wall -Werror -Wno-mismatched-tags to be exact.
@sehe And runs right too, apparently.
Ell
Ell
But all the Europeans know English fluently by 18 :o its crazy impressive
@R.MartinhoFernandes *so far
I know how to laugh in Spanish. Ajajajaj!
00:14
That looked very weird at first.
Also, prior to forgetting everything due to it being absolutely useless to me - I knew quite a bit of Spanish grammar, although after someone told me I'm mixing quite a bit of it with portugese.
But I am getting used to it now I have a friend from Chile.
Nosotros estamos estudiando Espanjol. Ahahah. I suck.
Ell
Ell
Español?
We are studying Spanish (correct?)
anyone attempted any with credential providers in windows
00:16
Yeah, I think.
@Ell Admettons.
@DomagojPandža talking to me?
@R.MartinhoFernandes Someone told me that you have something very close to nosotros, vosotros and all that, almost looks the same.
@JABFreeware Ell :D
@JABFreeware no
Xeo
Xeo
Gaaah, the C++ standard sucks.
Those fuckers can't even be clear with what they mean. :|
00:18
@Xeo gotta cover those edge cases
Ell
Ell
Admettons = ...admit? :P
@DomagojPandža "nós", and "vós". Not exactly the same, but yes, you can see some similarity.
Xeo
Xeo
@MooingDuck Even the guy implementing the highly sophisticated C++ parts in Clang is confused.
@Xeo no, I mean, it has to be written in a confusing way, because it has to cover all of the potential edge cases :(
They try to be all 0 ambiguous and end up being completely batshit confused.
00:19
"wir" and "ihr", I mean. I'm German now. cough
I appreciate their efforts
Xeo
Xeo
@MooingDuck Except it does not cover everything. Sometimes, it is assumed that "default arguments" includes "default template-arguments", and sometimes it's not, it seems.
to condense all usage cases in a clogged up paragraph, but I'd rather suffer a page of text specifying things in a clean manner, than decode it for an hour. :D
@R.MartinhoFernandes 'Us' and 'You's', presumably.
@Xeo alright, to clarify: They have to write it in a confusing way, because it must cover any and all edge cases that they thought of.
00:21
goddamnit
@MartinJames Hmm, "we" and "you" (plural). I guess the Spanish "nosotros" can double for "us", but in Portuguese "us" is "nos" (no accent).
Google: "We'd like to recruit you because of your Linux knowledge".
where do they get this stuff from?
@DeadMG haha
hahahahahaha
@DeadMG again?
I don't put that I have any Linux knowledge anywhere on any of my pages.
Xeo
Xeo
00:22
lawl
@DeadMG Well, you do google for your problems with Linux, right?
Guess where they know their shit from. :P
lol
Btw, pups, I wrote a list of character properties that I will expose to users (no, I won't expose the entire UCD, at least not as the "basic interface"; lots of crap there is useless unless you are implementing the Unicode algorithms or font rendering). You may want to compare it with the one in your proposal.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Irregular verbs: 'I explore different language options', 'You are too tied to one paradigm', 'They are clueless PHP twats'.
@DeadMG w0t? :D
Every day I come here thinking, sure, I could use some company while I work.
And after an hour... It reduces down to "I could use some company..."
ahahahah
@DeadMG me niether -'cos I have next-to-none.
00:27
@MartinJames Same for him, I guess.
@Xeo lol
@R.MartinhoFernandes The summary of my linux knowledge is: 'I get some app, load it up in 20 seconds, spend the next two hours chmodding, chowning, ln-ing to get it to actually run'.
Xeo
Xeo
Gawd, this default-argument-SFINAE stuff is fucked up.
@MartinJames You missed the bit where you look up ln's manual. I always do and I have been using this shit for... more than a decade now.
Xeo
Xeo
Btw robot, got anything to add here?
Can anyone direct me to a good place to ask for laptop recs? I am having a hell of a time here (finding one, that is! sorry)
00:33
OMG, I'm old.
Xeo
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes huh, what do you need to look in the manual for?
@Xeo Quick write a command to create a link to a named b.
Xeo
Xeo
Symlink? Hardlink?
uh
int decimal_value(code_point u);
00:34
an int for decimal_value?
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oh, FFS, let's not go there at this time of night :) The logical links etc. do my 'ead in.
Xeo
Xeo
$ ln -s a b, with full paths for a and b
Wait, are those directories?
@DeadMG Yes, it's decimal as in base 10 (0-9). The difference between "decimal" and "digit" is that there are languages with digits for, say, twenty.
It seems I've got a Mobile Intel Core i5 2410M (Sandy Bridge), 2 cores 4 threads, current frequency 2800 MHz
Ell
Ell
Night guys :)
Oops. XD
But yeah goodnight :)
00:37
'bye Ell, more shit tomorrow..
Oh, yeah, I have numeric_value as double, but it's always rational numbers, AFAICS. Do you think it's work having numerator() and denominator() or something?
Xeo
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes The confusing thing is, mklink on Windows has those arguments flipped... ln takes target link and mklink takes link target.
All languages I looked up use floating point, so yeah, I guess it's not worth it.
@Xeo I never used mklink. ln itself is confusing enough. You are not one of us :(
Xeo
Xeo
lol
00:39
@Xeo Yeah - like most linux/Windows stuff.
@Xeo @sehe found some stats recently, and they show that ln is the most man'ed command of all.
Xeo
Xeo
I had to use it a few times to get clang and libc++ to work, and I think the argument order feels natural. From then on, I just knew it.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Woah
@R.MartinhoFernandes Not particularly surprised. Done plenty man ln.
user142019
I just used a goto statement! :D
Xeo
Xeo
00:42
@MartinJames ln was like the first thing I was familiar with, after usual cd and ls.
@Zoidberg See your doctor tomorrow. Do not self-medicate.
Xeo
Xeo
Maybe because I set up my Debian vbox with the pure intention of playing around with Clang, which required me to create quite some symlinks.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Btw, I use mklink all the time because certain apps expect certain data to be in certain places, but I like to have my data on my external HDD.
I also use it for symlinking my Boost installation
user142019
@MartinJames nah.
user142019
This use is fine.
@Zoidberg What use? Not used GOTO since M$ 8K BASIC.
Xeo
Xeo
00:46
I will try to clarify my question a bit better with an example. Why is this a soft error? Why is it considered to be in the "immediate context", even though the error is caused in a nested context when instantiating T2<int>? — Andy Prowl 2 mins ago
@Andy: Because it isn't. ;) ... will also accept zero arguments, unlike the other overload. — Xeo 51 secs ago
Haha
user142019
Xeo
Xeo
Using int/long instead of int/... may actually have a valid reason with small errors like this.
Crap.
Robot!
Quick, spin back time so I can get to sleep 2h earlier!
@Zoidberg return;
user142019
@Rapptz uh no wat.
user142019
That's something completely different.
00:51
? it'd break out of the for loop and skip the return statement you have there
@Zoidberg bool function call.
I don't see it
user142019
@Rapptz it enters the next iteration of the outer loop.
user142019
It has to skip the return statement.
Java has named blocks for that.
user142019
00:52
C++ doesn't, so goto.
..anyway, I gotta sleep. Meeting tonite with free beer, then turbo-curry. Knackered again.
'night!
I'll hit the sack too.
You guys try to keep it together.
Bro hugs.
:) night
user1357851
@MartinJames meeting with beer, then beer start disappearing
user142019
@DomagojPandža Goodbye.
00:55
@Telkitty Summat like that :) Bye!
Xeo
Xeo
11
Q: Is this a valid (ab)use of lambda expressions?

XeoLike we all know, it's not that easy to break from a nested loop out of an outer loop without either: a goto (Example code.) another condition check in the outer loop (Example code.) putting both loops in an extra function and returning instead of breaking (Example code.) Though, you gotta ad...

user1357851
LaterZzzzz
@Zoidberg What's last_it for?
user142019
@R.MartinhoFernandes reset iterator if punctuator does not match.
user142019
I loop over the punctuator table and try to match all of them, but some may be more than one character long.
user142019
00:57
In that case I need to revert the iterator if no match.
Xeo
Xeo
Alright, time to hit the sack for real now.
See ya tomorrow
user142019
I should probably rename it to initial_it or something like that.
user142019
Or maybe do it + 1, it + 2 etc.
Hello, Cruel World!
@zoid how goes the haskell?
user142019
Haskell is best as always.
user1357851
01:05
@Code-Guru hello ... just so I can become the cruel world for you
@Telkitty thanks
@Zoidberg would you mind taking a quick look at my short question:
0
Q: Dynamic programming in Haskell

Code-GuruDoes Haskell provide any tools for dynamic programming? In a procedural language, I would use an array to store the calculations based on a recurrence relation. How do I do something similar in Haskell?

user142019
Hmm crap.
@Zoidberg When you have some time that is ;-)
user142019
@Code-Guru I don't know shit about dynamic programming.
@Zoidberg meh, what good are you? =p
@Xeo I would normally go for the put-it-in-a-function-and-use-return approach.
user142019
Heh.
@Borgleader Hmm...I've only played the original Deus Ex. The sequel is yet another game that I've missed ;-(
user142019
ogonek::text as key in std::unordered_map is going to be a pain. :)
user142019
Orrr maybe not.
01:10
@Code-Guru Skip Invisible Wars, go straight to Human Revolution :)
@Zoidberg Hmm. Hashing.
user142019
Maybe I could use .container() and std::basic_string.
user142019
The encoding is known at compile-time.
@Zoidberg Does not respect canonical equivalence.
Conforming processes must not differentiate between canonically equivalent strings.
@Code-Guru I don't understand, I'm sure Haskell has a form of an associative array for memoization.
Isn't it called.. Map?
01:12
@Zoidberg Actually, for identifiers compatibility equivalence is recommended, which I don't support yet.
user142019
Oh I see.
Hashing the normalized forms should do fine.
@Rapptz That might be what I need...
But this does remind me that I need at least two forms of hashing.
@Borgleader There are two Deus Ex sequels? :-o
01:14
And that normalized_text does have a place, otherwise you get terrible performance.
@Code-Guru rofl yes, Invisible War considered by most to be an "unworthy sequel" (i liked it a lot though, that's the one that introduced me to the series). And Human Revolution, much more recent. and a lot better :)
user142019
For now I'll just do it very uglily. I'll never complete this project anyway.
user142019
// TODO: Use std::unordered_map when Ogonek supports hashing.
static std::vector<std::pair<std::string, token_kind>> const keywords{
    {u8"import", token_kind::import},
    {u8"fn", token_kind::fn},
};

for (auto const& keyword : keywords) {
    if (ogonek::text<ogonek::utf8>{keyword.first} == value) {
        return token{keyword.second, boost::none};
    }
}
lol, unless you have combining marks in your keywords, that should not be needed :|
user142019
All keywords match ^[a-z]+$.
user142019
01:18
There's only lowercase letters in them and nothing else.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Thanks for the link.
@Zoidberg Hmm, yeah, just drop strings there...
user1357851
robot, I see you then I think about lolcatz
@Zoidberg Is there such a thing as "complete programming project"...especially when it comes to hobby projects...
user142019
@Code-Guru not in my world.
01:19
All ASCII text is NFC, NFD, NFKC, and NFKD, so it's safe.
@Zoidberg not in mine, either
I always tell myself I'll get back to it some day and add other features...some day hasn't come yet on many of my projects.
user142019
Do Mn, Mc and Me characters make sense in identifiers, by the way? Currently I do allow them.
@Code-Guru I'll call mine "complete" when I get to 1.0.0, even though I have plans for after that.
@R.MartinhoFernandes I don't think I've gotten anything to what I'd call 1.0.0
user1357851
   /\_/\
   >^.^<.---.
  _'-`-'     )\
 (6--\ |--\ (`.`-.
     --'  --'  ``-'
01:21
@Zoidberg Basically, the regexp is, in PCRE: \p{XID_Start}\p{XID_Continue}*, i.e., any character with the property XID_Start can start, and any with XID_Continue can be after it.
user142019
@R.MartinhoFernandes Ah.
There are functions to test those properties in ogonek::ucd::
user142019
No Me, apparently.
user142019
I use get_general_category right now. I'll check out the other functions in that namespace.
is_xid_start and is_xid_continue, IIRC.
user142019
01:22
Ah yeah. :)
user142019
Great. It works.
woot! One person bought my Android app!
user142019
Did have to add ', ? and ! manually but yeah doesn't matter.
@Code-Guru gratz
now go buy DXHR :P
@Borgleader Well, I'm about a buck closer ;-)
user1357851
01:29
congrats, you are US$1.49 richer
minus Google's fees
My app is still beta. I have been working on testing and squashing bugs...but took a break this week to do some Haskell for a while.
GitHub Markdown task lists are cool.
user142019
I'm gonna use issues and that for Zoidlang.
user142019
Maybe it motivates me.
02:13
@Zoidberg I have an issue tracker for my Android app. I can add issues faster than I seem to deal with them ;-(
@Zoidberg Is Zoidlang a complete language with compiler and all?
oh I see you use C++ underlying
what's the syntax?
user142019
Awesome.
user142019
@CCInc Uh I basically have a crappy lexer incomplete and that's all.
user142019
I can now parse arbitrary-base integer literals like 16#ffffff and 36#abz223c and 2#1001011! :D
02:18
SECTION("hash", "hashing tests") {
    text8 a { U"bla\u0308h" }; // <b> <l> <a> <combining umlaut> <h>
    text8 b { U"blah" }; // <b> <l> <a> <h>
    text8 c { U"bl\u00e4h" }; // <b> <l> <a with umlaut> <h>
    std::unordered_map<text8, int> map { { a, 42 } };
    map[b] = 17;
    map[c] = 23;
    REQUIRE(map.size() == 2);
    REQUIRE(map[a] == 23);
    REQUIRE(map[b] == 17);
    REQUIRE(map[c] == 23);
}
@Zoidberg passes :)
user142019
Coooool.
user142019
for (;;) {
    if (std::find(digits.begin(), digits.begin() + radix, *++it) == digits.begin() + radix) {
        break;
    } else {
        string.push_back(*it);
    }
}
user142019
lol
user142019
for (;;) { if (...) break; else do_something(); }
Though for identifiers you will want something like std::unordered_map<text8, V, compatibility_hash, compatibility_equivalence> instead.
user142019
02:21
Tomorrow I'll implement signedness and unsigned integer literals.
user142019
And escape sequences in string literals. :L
Hmm, I think the KeyEqual on unordered_map should have been made defined by the hash.
They must agree (i.e. a == b => h(a) == h(b)), so I can't see you changing one without changing the other that often.
user142019
I wrote the ugliest code ever.
Anyway, time to sleep.
user142019
Yup.
02:25
Gute Nacht.
user142019
Goodbye.
good morning :p
Mornin'.
@Telkitty 'Daaaw so cute.
user1357851
^_^ ... since real lolcat pictures aren't exactly welcome in the lounge
So!
I think I'm going to make my life extremely hard
And generate levels from Polygon Soup.
02:33
but, I thought you had FBX working now
I have FBX working.
But I need to define a level out of it, with trigger information and other stuff.
so why the soup? everything should be neat meshes now :p
I meant Polygon Soup as in A collection of meshes and other shit
what else would it be? :D
The thing is, in FBX, I don't know how to do things like make Spawn Points, draw collision boxes, and other stuff.
02:34
(shut up, minecraft!)
And I don't think my artists do either.
IIRC, a level editor would be required ti import Maya / 3ds Max Models (as FBX, along with other assets) and build a level out of it.
you could just reserve a certain object name for those things
Otherwise, you'd just build it straigth in Maya or 3ds Max and do some weird plugin stuff.
@melak47 That's a really shitty way to design a level. :c
a box with name "blablabla_collider" is a collider. :D a thing with the name "blargh_spawnpoint" is a spawnpoint, geometry ignored, only position used. or something
02:36
Syughi.
Can I ask you a question regarding to Cygwin and running gcc compiler?
Nope, because I never use that piece of shit. :D
@ThePhD cygwin or gcc?
Both.
02:38
Together, I mean.
@TemporaryNickName You can ask -- we'll probably find it very entertaining to be reminded how much cygwin sucks. If you're more interested in compiling than entertaining us, get MinGW.
I have MinGW but meh.
What else would you use? I am not very familiar with this. My question is I need to run a compiler built by someone else that runs top of ocaml
but when I try to run install-sh file provided by the language creator, it gives me the following error
checking for gcc... gcc | checking for C compiler default output file name... | configure: error: C compiler cannot create executables (Pipe symbols are new lines)
I don't even know what that means.
If you need to build an application using GCC/G++ in Windows, get MinGW.
So I basically typed ./install-bash on bash window
02:40
Make sure you install it somewhere. Put MinGW on your path. Then build ocaml / run ocaml / do whatever shit on ocaml.
I don't know what ocaml is.
OCaml is a general purpose industrial-strength programming language with an emphasis on expressiveness and safety.
It is another compiler that runs on C compiler I think
@ThePhD ocaml is an ML-style language, presumably he needs to compile the reference compiler for it
Yes, you are correct
I currently have Cygwin installed on my machine
@TemporaryNickName the error is when you're trying to install ocaml itself, right?
02:42
Then go fetch yourself MinGW and stop using Cygwin.
not the compiler written in ocaml?
Nope, I get this error when I want to compile install-sh file of this compiler that I am trying to use
btw I am using Windows
@melak47 I like how programming languages can be industrial strength.
C++: Home Edition!
Now with 50% less standardese!
"may break under too heavy a load"
@TemporaryNickName I'm not really sure, if the compiler you're downloading is written in ocaml it shouldn't require gcc (unless there's modules written in c), but presumably you need to build and install ocaml first too
it would probably be faster to repartition and install ubuntu, honestly, unless you need to be on windows
02:46
I already have downloaded all those required packages (gcc, ocaml and etc) through Cygwin downloader
cygwin packages aren't maintained that well
@EtiennedeMartel For that Exporter you have for levels, is it just Level Geometry? Or are we talking about everything plus the kitchen sink ?
E.g. Spawn Points, and other needed level meta-data.
I am sure gcc path is set correctly because I am getting this error when I type in "gcc" gcc: no input files
@TemporaryNickName I would install ocaml's cygwin port from their website (ocaml.org/install.html)--it probably won't be fun though--do you really need to be on windows?
02:49
anyone know laptops?
Ok, since I am at school
I wanna try this on Redhat
Otherwise going to download ubuntu on VM
@ThePhD I tried something, but I'm not exactly sure what happens when you export a non geometry object with max' built in FBX exporter. It doesn't look like it preserves all properties like width, height etc.
Oh. Well, that's lovely. :c
you could export as plaintext XML and insert your custom objects after the geometry has been written to it, I suppose
Or I could just export geometry, and hand-write a plaintext that describes the level / maps.
02:52
yeah. or make a level editor :3
@TemporaryNickName just do that, setting up a compatible build environment on windows is a pain if whoever you got your package from isn't working on windows, which is most likely the case
.____.
You just want to ruin my day, don't you?
What have I ever done to you?
Hm? HMMMM?
idk :(
The more and more I work though, the more and more it looks like I'd need to make my own level editor or figure out how Maya importers and exporters work.
the thing with that though, would be that you'd have to also make a plugin that provides all your collider, spawn point, trigger, idk objects to maya
and all your functionality for those objects would have to be available in maya/max :/
02:55
Yeah.....
.... ._.
i.e. you want the trigger to only trigger after trigger xy has triggered?
oh boy, I am downloading ubuntu
lol
why would you do that D:
yes :p
02:56
what's wrong with ubuntu?
oh nothing really
except that, err, nice desktop environment :3
I like its UI design
it's the second best UI design I think
I like Xubuntu's UI design better.
02:56
the best is Windows 8 Metro UI
what are you gonna do, run your compiler thing on a real gcc in a VM?
ew, win8 metro :(
RIP, the age of gloss.
I need some help in what to look for in a laptop

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