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09:00
@ThePhD Move'em out. Like others have said, just put exe installations in there.
I also wanted to avoid using my User path, simply because that breaks horribly when you have to change users/computers.
Not all the computers had a D:\ drive, though
@ThePhD Only if your name changes!
So in the end, I settled on Program Files/Code.
@ThePhD That will certainly be annoying on other boxes, 'cos the permissions/privileges/UAC issue you are already saddled with. If you want an all-user read/write folder, use c:\users\public - that's where all my apps store their config stuff. No problems on Vista/W7.
Always wanted to be an NYPD officer. :$
09:07
Sounds like fun, except for getting-shot-at of it all.
@DomagojPandža With my ISP, you would not do that, (though I do use 'cloud' for backups).
Yeah, if it had to go over the "outside wire", definitely not. I have a physical server in the room next to me, so I like to call it the cloud. :D
@DomagojPandža Oh, right, local LAN fileserver, fine!
And a bunch of manual backups on external HDDs because I'm paranoid like that.
@DomagojPandža Heh - me too. Every time I leave the office I think 'what would happen if my development box blew up now?'.
@BartekBanachewicz Not later on, no.
@MartinJames fuck.
09:20
Wasn't @Cicada going out for Japanese food, or summat? Probably still hung over.
@MartinJames You mean food poisoning? :P
Anyway, there's dust everywhere here
and no water
I should've come a week later
I know I am. Gonna get worse too. Big 40th birthday party tonight at club. Food + Cavemen, (three guitars, big amps/speakers).
waaa
Uh, last time I played on stage was a year ago... that's sad
Ell
Ell
Man I hope I win a free gaming pc, srsly
@BartekBanachewicz I really love live bands, unfortunately, my musical talent is even lower than my darts skills, (and when the darts teams are signing up players, they check first to ensure that I'm not around).
09:26
Well, if it weren't free, it wouldn't really be winning? :P
@Ell why don't you just work for it, lazy?
@DomagojPandža semantics
Ell
Ell
Because I'm lazy, like you said ;)
Ell
Ell
And also I haven't been able to get a job yet :L
10 days to HotS
@Ell I was thinking yesterday about a job in starbucks
that would be cool
Ell
Ell
09:27
I've applied loads of places but had nothing so far
@MartinJames I am not talented either. I just like playing
@Ell did you try Mac? :P
@BartekBanachewicz Dust and no water? Are you in some sort of Hoover heaven?
Ubisoft sure loves their hallucination sequences
@MartinJames I am in the middle of renovations :P
@CatPlusPlus What are you enjoying right now? :P
Ell
Ell
09:28
Mac? As in apple? :P
user1357851
@MartinJames happy birthday!
@BartekBanachewicz Ah.. yes, pain. Also, I'm sorta allergic to paint fumes.
Uh, also, travelling back to Gdańsk with 20kg amp will sure be fun
@Ell as in burgers, lol. Maybe your CV just sucks?
@Telkitty It's not my birthday, but thanks for the topless barbies anyway :)
@BartekBanachewicz 20kg amp? I would pack it up and have it shipped.
09:30
I ignored Telkitty a while ago, because honestly I couldn't stand more random images
Stupid contextual controls
@MartinJames Effort.
@CatPlusPlus ??
@MartinJames He's playing Assassin's Creed II
And he's frustrated. :D
@DomagojPandža Ah.. OK.
Ell
Ell
09:33
Oh macdonalds. I haven't tried yet :L and yeah maybe it does. But really I don't see what Stuff I can put on a cv looking for a part time job
They can't expect significant qualifications from a teen
user1357851
Why is that people always has this urge to tell people who they are ignoring? Like people in this lounge actually cares who is ignore them? Stop being so newbish, no one cares about your ignore list.
@Telkitty Who's ignoring who?
user1357851
read above
user1357851
I hate useless people with inflated ego
user1357851
like if you have a big ego, at least stop being useless?
09:38
Odd images don't really bother me that much. I wait a bit, they scroll off the screen.
user1357851
exactly
@Telkitty hey, come on
don't take it personally
Hmm.. bandwidth. Perhaps chat could have a 'no images' option.
@Telkitty You know, some people might actually be at work or such.
I really see no problem in posting funny stuff, but you don't have to onebox each and every of them
09:40
@bamboon That too. Another good reason for a per-user 'no images' option.
@MartinJames that would be nice. It there a meta for that?
Because if not, it should totally be posted
Ell
Ell
How do you prevent oneboxing?
@BartekBanachewicz Dunno. If you make one, I'll upvote it.
user1357851
I thought about it, but it would be obvious you should not be chatting at work
user1357851
most of the stuff here is not work related anyways, more of hobby thing
09:42
8
Q: Hide or collapse individual comments in chat

MDMarraI spend a lot of time in SF chat. We like to post a lot of pictures in chat. They're usually not offensive or anything, and 90% of the time they're funny and relevant. That said, there are times when it would be nice to be able to hide or collapse a chat message. Sometimes it's an image or an an...

@Telkitty What else should I do when my code is compiling? :P
@Telkitty which means that when I'm chatting with someone, 3 images for half of the screen ain't helping
@BartekBanachewicz I commented/upvoted.
To make into core SO chat it will need more than 11 upvotes though
I've just found out that my favorite local coffee shop has been closed for good. Damn, them feels. :(
oh. that's sad.
Are there no local Starbucks nearby? :P
@DomagojPandža You'll have to get your weed somewhere else.
user1357851
09:48
time to get your own coffee machine :p
user1357851
This chat is so time consuming, I got nothing much done the whole day. Gosh I am useless
@Telkitty Hmm.. I've been thinking about that. Need to find some space in my office. Can you recommend any particular machine?
@Telkitty I did make an attempt earlier, but VMware went a bit funny, so I gave up.
Also, TIL
The cicada has represented insouciance since classical antiquity
user1357851
@MartinJames dunno, I used to have a coffee machine at home. Not sure about in the office because most machines make a lot of noisy, so unless your colleagues are okay with that, you might as well stick to a plunger
@MartinJames yeeeessss. gimme sec
09:56
@Telkitty I have my own office, but it's already too noisy - there's one power supply under the bench that squeaks and hisses, plus the usual fans etc. One more noise source will not make much difference, plus 'phones on for music most of time.
@BartekBanachewicz Looks good, but maybe a bit much for my one-man office :(
@MartinJames Schaerer ones are really epic. Maybe some lower model would fit. Anyway, if you want something small, the machines that feed on prefabricated capsules make nice coffee too, but are much more expensive in use
user1357851
@MartinJames I used to have a expresso machine, it is fairly convenient for making coffee, but you have to wash it everyday. Don't know too much about them, I just bought the one that was on sales. Slightly under A$100/US$100.
Winner gets @Cicada?
user1357851
@ScottW yes, and you would just love to watch the world burn
@ScottW what?
@ScottW what?
just... what.
you are forgetting yourself, young man
user1357851
10:03
yes and acting childish, that's all
Physical age means nothing
@ScottW Also, we're not in the medieval ages anymore, y'know?
If the winner gets @Cicada, what would the loser get? Death penaty? Lifetime chained in PHP room?
If the winner "gets" her in your terms, she'll kill him anyway, so I'm out
No. I'd prefer to be left in PHP room than torn to pieces by a mad insect.
user1357851
@MartinJames the loser gets the barbie cake :x
10:08
Also, don't forget Cicada is a boy now.
@ScottW Well, there's points on both sides.
user1357851
worse still, the loser gets to stay in a private room with Scott W for a whole day and can not leave
user1357851
@ScottW I wouldn't either. But maybe if they had that on their mind and not losing in the first place, things would be much better for them
@BartekBanachewicz I don't know what Cicada is. Or anyone here, for that matter. Maybe you're ALL robots.
Trollbots..
@MartinJames I mean, I have 3 terabyte disks of satellite photos of her, but she might have changed gender ever since
10:12
@BartekBanachewicz You need a bigger server
@MartinJames i know right
anyway, this thread is getting boring already
I want a 'Coffee Joy'
If you can afford it, I think you should be cool with it.
hmm.. I can go either at 15:31 or 19:09
fucking train connections
upside is that today there won't be much people going
well, if I am to go on this at 3pm, I better start gathering the stuff.
Don't like trains. OK in mainland EU, but UK trains are shite.
Well in Poland our SKM is more like a subway in tricity, but it goes out all the way to Słupsk
10:25
No subways much here, (except in London).
The London subway, (Undergound/Tube), is nightmarish overcrowded and self-heating itself to death.
Like every subway
gtg
There was a competition for engineers to try and find some way of getting the heat out of the system - nobody won it.
@BartekBanachewicz Looks nice, (apart from the snow), - plenty open space.
Oh - bye!
user142019
10:49
@MartinJames I have seen two Subways in London.
user142019
If not more.
user142019
user142019
:3
We had one in Uttoxeter, but it shut:(
..actually, I think it just moved a bit. I think it's on the new service area on the A50
Yup: Subway Uttoxeter Services. A50 Derby Road, Uttoxeter, ST14 5AA
Now I'm getting hungry. Thanks Zoidberg.
user142019
11:00
+1: "people will choose a familiar hell over an unfamiliar heaven". — Giorgio Aug 21 '12 at 7:57
user142019
Java people should try C#, really.
user142019
Syntax is kinda similar so that won't be a problem.
user142019
And it takes away all the pain.
my laptop arrived :v:
@melak47 I sold mine to my mum.
11:03
now the big question...what do I name it :/
@FredOverflow classic
user142019
The problem with Java is not Java but the fact that it's the first thing noobs are taught at school.
user142019
s/Sch/F/
11:04
@bamboon I really did. Hers broke after many years, and I didn't need mine anymore, so...
user142019
(Yes I read that article. :))
heh. my laptop suggests "lounge-pc". it knows too much already!
Did you name the user "lounge"? :)
user142019
Now, don't get me wrong: there's nothing wrong with Java as an implementation language.
user142019
Okay Spolsky, for once you're wrong.
11:05
I haven't named the user yet, I dunno why it's asking for the computer name first ._.
@Zoidberg Have you read the rest?
user142019
@FredOverflow two years ago or something, I don't remember any of it. xD
user142019
I'm rereading it now.
user142019
oh I see now xD
It's like the next sentence or something :)
11:06
@Zoidberg how do you name your computers? oh, wait, nevermind..."daknokdaknokdaknokdaknokdaknok" ?
user142019
daknok-pc, windows-daknok-pc, daknok-mac etc. :P
user142019
arch-daknok
s/daknok/eggnog/
bahaha windows 8..."you can use any name you want!" types something "...as long as you don't use any of these characters: <huge list>"
user142019
You used to start out in college with a course in data structures, with linked lists and hash tables and whatnot, with extensive use of pointers. Those courses were often used as weedout courses: they were so hard that anyone that couldn't handle the mental challenge of a CS degree would give up, which was a good thing, because if you thought pointers are hard, wait until you try to prove things about fixed point theory.
user142019
11:09
:( school y u stop doing this.
time to "burn" win7 to a thumb drive....
user142019
It would've meant a moronless class and I'd be so happy!
user142019
(Except I would be very, very lonely in that class.)
@Zoidberg We still have enough weedout courses, mostly math and logic. But Java definitely isn't one of them.
@Zoidberg haha, pointers? in data structure courses ? we didn't even do any fucking programming
user142019
11:10
I'd rather have very theoretical CS than Java.
us neither
You can do data structures in Haskell, which has no notion of pointers on the surface :)
user142019
I do programming in every class.
user142019
Even communication skills (yes, that's a subject).
user142019
You know, because I can't communicate with inferior people so I go code instead. :3
user142019
11:11
@FredOverflow oh no? Explain Foreign.Ptr.Ptr. *hides*
@Zoidberg Why do you know all this weird stuff?
user142019
Because I don't pay attention during classes.
@Zoidberg On the off chance of being a stuckup douche, what's difficult here to weedout anyone?
user142019
@DomagojPandža no more money!
@DomagojPandža Removing a node from a linked list is too hard for many students.
user142019
11:13
@DomagojPandža less graduates so poor school reputation!
user142019
@FredOverflow that's the easiest operation on a linked list you can do.
user142019
Except maybe traversing it, nah.
or picking the first element ;)
user142019
lol :P
user142019
Now sorting a linked list efficiently.
user142019
11:14
That's "difficult".
Mergesort?
wtf, why can't I use a "-" in the computer name?
user142019
(I don't know shit about sorting; I always use language's standard library's sort function.)
user142019
@melak47 Windows is terrible.
@Zoidberg I wonder if std::list<T>::sort is optimized to either swap the links for large elements or directly swap the elements for small elements.
11:15
oh. apparently the keyboard layout was different. I was actually typing ?
I try to evade any data structure which causes memory fragmentation over time, cache-friendly stuff is what rendering architects like. I even managed to linearize acceleration structures in Duality.
user142019
@FredOverflow Hmm. Depends on implementation!
But then again, sometimes you can't avoid a linked list.
@Zoidberg But if you have a list<int>, then swapping the ints is more efficient.
user142019
@FredOverflow not on 32-bit machine. :P
11:16
@DomagojPandža Tell me when?
@FredOverflow Oh, I'm just being politically correct. I can avoid it always, I think. :$
@Zoidberg To swap two elements in a doubly linked list, you have to change 8 pointers. Swapping 2 ints sounds way more efficient to me.
user142019
Oh doubly linked right.
std::list<T> is doubly linked, isn't it?
user142019
Yes, but I forgot that.
11:18
Oh wait, if the list elements are small, I can just use std::sort instead of std::list<T>::sort :)
Zoidberg: Decrements iterators since 1995 and thinks he uses a singly linked list. ;)
@DomagojPandža Perhaps I'm biased; I have never had the need for std::list<T> in my entire life.
@FredOverflow Hahah, me too. And I've done everything from hobby operating systems to low level rendering architectures and I've always found much more natural things to replace it. I understand the idea, but the notion of traversing down so many pointers which may be in totally different "sectors" of memory makes me and the cache cringe.
user142019
@FredOverflow same.
Although, I've had to do something similar on the GPU (Compute) for the rendering core of Duality, since it doesn't really allow general data structure on there, I had to fake it.
user142019
11:21
Then, "my entire life" is short as fuck.
5
Q: Should std::list be deprecated?

FredOverflowAccording to Bjarne Stroustrup's slides from his Going Native 2012 keynote, insertion and deletion in a std::list are terribly inefficient on modern hardware: Vector beats list massively for insertion and deletion If this is indeed true, what use cases are left for std::list? Shouldn't it...

Does std::deque have similar iterator invalidation guarantees as std::list?
user142019
The recruiters-who-use-grep, by the way, are ridiculed here, and for good reason. I have never met anyone who can do Scheme, Haskell, and C pointers who can't pick up Java in two days, and create better Java code than people with five years of experience in Java, but try explaining that to the average HR drone.
4
user142019
I still love this. :)
user142019
@FredOverflow you should have left the graph an empty image. :)
@Zoidberg I'm pretty sure there used to be a comment saying "Hey, you found Bjarne's missing slide!" :)
11:24
I hate Java more than C.
agree
user142019
(I learned most of Java in like half an hour.)
And while I like Haskell as much as the next nerd does and have written a raytracer in it, is it actually...

How to put it mildly... Useful?
user142019
But that's because I have a friend who's Java expert and Java is kinda C++-but-only-OOP-and-minus-minus-instead-of-plus-plus. :P
I'm a nerd and I don't like Haskell that much.
so you must not like Haskell that much either.
since I am the next nerd.
11:27
@DomagojPandža Haskell was never designed to be useful, but it seems it is becoming used more and more in industry. Of course it's still a niche language compared to other popular languages.
user142019
<any language>, <any other language>, and C pointers
user142019
@FredOverflow you accidentally the letter H.
@DeadMG You're actually right, to quote myself "UPDATE (July 30th 2012) - I am ceasing all development on this project, there will be no further updates nor should you consider using this for production purposes. This project was meant to show that Haskell is, indeed, not that useless. It is an experiment and should be observed as such, a project that elapsed a few hours of my life."
"Did you enjoy writing a raytracer in Haskell?
Hell, no. There were some nice things, the idea of writing it for bragging rights, but that's it, as far as I'm concerned. Haskell has some nice approaches, but I cannot see any project it could do better than C++. It's a great attempt, a great direction for computer science research, but hardly a solution to be employed in the industry."
this just goes to show that I'm psychic
11:28
And that's all Haskell was meant to be. A common playground for functional computer scientists.
@DomagojPandža Yes
@CatPlusPlus There's our Defender of Haskell. :Đ
hmm
lexing // with input iterators: surprisingly tough.
user142019
I still don't see how <*> is useful.
int*i; - whitespace doesn't grow on trees, you know... — Shog9 Sep 26 '10 at 1:12
user142019
11:31
I read about it over and over again but I can't find any use for it.
@FredOverflow Can't you make stuff and, well, sell it?
@DeadMG You can hold the last n values in a buffer to implement n-lookahead with input iterators.
user142019
@FredOverflow reminds me of an ex-coworker.
I could do, I guess.
but I already do that with the lexing tokens themselves :P
user142019
The only whitespace he used was indentation.
user142019
11:32
"Because he's a good parser so he doesn't need whitespace."
@MartinJames People are doing it, so yes.
They still didn't close down that Programmers piece of shit? :$
user142019
I'd write iPhone apps in Haskell and sell them.
user142019
Or at least, for as far it's possible.
I was wondering why the Dining philosophers problem is based on a five philosophers case. Why not four?
It's 5 philosophers because he was trying to see if anybody would ever notice the obvious out; 5 philosophers together will talk until the restaurant kicks them out, they'll never even pick up their silverware. 4 might have a break in conversation long enough for them to start eating. With 5 as soon as any two stop talking for a moment there is already one in queue waiting to interject to ensure continuity. — Jimmy Hoffa Feb 21 at 17:58
user142019
11:34
Say, the back-end.
@Zoidberg It's bind for applicatives sorta afaik
'High-Assurance, High-Performance Cryptographic Modules' - well, there's a barn-burner of a line of business.
@MartinJames Well, that was just one example. click me
Dare I...
user142019
Just f <*> Just x = Just $ f x
_ <*> _ = Nothing
user142019
11:35
I think.
@FredOverflow OK, I did, and it was interesting, (I'm always vary of 'click me').
user142019
Maybe it's useful for readability similar how I always "abuse" . instead of $ when chaining many functions; f . g . h . i . j $ k l.
Adam Foltzer is speaking at Clojure/West in Portland, OR. Come listen to his talk on "Molog: Typed Functional Logic Programming in Haskell."
Yay, Prolog in Haskell, a match made in heaven for @DeadMG
'Facebook uses some Haskell internally for tools. lex-pass is a tool for programmatically manipulating a PHP code base via Haskell. '
user142019
I have seen a <$> b <*> c <*> d <*> e.
11:37
@Zoidberg That's standard applicative style, isn't it?
user142019
But I don't understand how <$> works there. :)
who needs readability, eh
user142019
How does it look parenthesized?
user142019
5 mins ago, by Zoidberg
"Because he's a good parser so he doesn't need whitespace."
@MartinJames No, programs in Haskell gain magical inability to ever be sold
(It's a really fucking dumb question fyi)
11:38
(pure a) <*> b <*> c <*> d <*> e   -- I think
user142019
Yes but how does <$> ever apply something to pure.
@CatPlusPlus Driven by 'A common playground for functional computer scientists'
user142019
Oh wait.
a <$> b = (pure a) <*> b   -- problem solved?
user142019
Does <*> have precedence over <$>?
11:39
It's so dumb I don't even have words
user142019
@FredOverflow holy shitfuck.
user142019
Fred you're awesome.
@Zoidberg They both have the same precedence (infixl 4).
<$> is fmap
user142019
I know.
11:41
I forgot :)
@CatPlusPlus Try harder.
user142019
But x <$> y = pure x <*> y is still true.
user142019
For applicatives.
user142019
Wait.
user142019
f <$> Just x = Just $ f x
Just f <*> Just x = Just $ f x
11:43
For some reason, I thought you were bitching about this. :D
user142019
lol
I know I was frustrated that operator overloading is a bitch for specific types in Haskell because you had to overload even for things that made no sense. :D
So I chose gangsta symbols
user142019
You use the correct typeclass.
user142019
If vectors don't behave like numbers don't make them instances of Num.
user142019
@DomagojPandža Also, do I see a tab there? :O
11:46
I ventured into Haskell for 3 days, on the 4th, I made a deterministic bruteforce raytracer. And forgotten it completely. :D
There are non-deterministic raytracers?
user142019
f <$> Just x = Just $ f x
Just f <*> Just x = Just $ f x
f <$> x = pure f <*> x
f <$> Just x = pure f <*> Just x = Just f <*> Just x = f <$> Just x
user142019
Seems you're right @FredOverflow.
@FredOverflow We call 'em stochastic.
interesting
11:48
@DomagojPandža do they just throw in plenty of randomness into things, to try to make them look a bit more natural?
@thecoshman Yup, but it's an elaborate guesswork game. The bruteforce approach is where we're trying to get in the least amount of time.
You look at specific ray bundles, photon distributions, where it is most likely to land and then try to mishmash that into something that looks proper.
soon, soon raytraceing engines will be the norm for games :P
Raytraced Solitaire and Mahjongg? Yay!
so, what, your brute force is doing say every pixel, but the stochastic one might say cast one ray, and work out how the effects a 3*3 pixel area?
user142019
Real-time mental ray.
user142019
11:52
Me wantz.
@thecoshman I've got one running at ~25 FPS @ 720p, posted a few pics a few days ago with a simple scene. I believe that's the next step after voxelization and cone tracing. Although, voxelization may remain because it prevents overdraw by matching the sampling resolution to the output resolution.
you probably code get decent fps, but not at a decent res
@DomagojPandža how beastly is your gpu though?
so for anyone with a 'normal' card, it's going to be like .25 FPS :P
That's why we've got voxel cone tracing for mortals. :P
11:55
lol
user142019
As useless as the concept of function currying may be to the real world, it's obviously a prereq for CS grad school.
Although, they're intense as well. I've only tested them previously on HD6990s. Sparse textures should help, though.
user142019
It would surprise me if my teachers understood currying.
well, that said, currently 'high end' games more or less say 'screw you poor people', so I can see games shipping with an alternate raytrace mode for those who can run it, other wise, fall back to conventional model
Duality has the following code paths:

1) ASVO (my approach to the voxelization GI race)
2) An optimized Kaplanyan-Dachsbacher implementation of lattice-based dynamic diffuse global illumination with RSMs and semi-precise dynamic spherical harmonics
3) Classic tile-based deferred renderer with the Skyrim-like lighting model, basically the old approximate lighting equation.
user142019
user142019
Looks suspiciously like Stack Overflow Careers.
@Zoidberg Btw. talk to me about those typeclasses. I'm curious. :D
user142019
@DomagojPandža similar to concepts in C++.
I know I was too proud to consult the documentation to find more about it, usually I "get" languages in an hour or so. After two days of Haskell, my ego was fairly bruised.

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