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00:00
@EtiennedeMartel That's a truly amazing skill
@Cicada i am not making this library. I want to use it, because I want to see minicraft done. I want to actually finish something :P
@Cicada No, it's just that I try to see the good side in anything.
And that's why yes, i am saying fuck it
@BartekBanachewicz I meant "just dont use it if it has big flaws"
No matter what happens, it could always be worse.
00:01
@EtiennedeMartel The good side in anything for you
@Cicada define big flaws =.=
The weird thing si that even though she says racist things and hates everyone equally, she's helped out everybody that crosses her path, hatian spanish french canadian southeast-asian etc. ...
@EtiennedeMartel That's nice to hear
Personally, I think she secretly loves the shit out of everyone, but won't admit it.
@ThePhD She probably hate herself.
00:01
Getting her to admit that though is something I have not been able to accomplish.
She's probably haitian anyway
@ThePhD It'll get a lot of booze and perhaps even a death bed for that.
@TonyTheLion That guy isn't drinking fast enough.
@EtiennedeMartel When she drinks she jsut says even more racist things. And she knows how to drink, I don't need to suggest a bottle to her and she'll have rum-coated ice-cream and fancy vodka-redwine mixes @__@
@EtiennedeMartel That might actually be more true these days...
00:03
@Cicada Sérieusement. Peu importe ce qui arrive, ça pourrait être pire. Ce qui veut dire que c'est pas si pire que ça.
@EtiennedeMartel Je sais bien.
q_q I wish I could understand French.
Only my two eldest sisters understand both French and Creole. I lost my ability to read/write/understand it. ;~;
The adults talk about me but I can't understand it. :c
in bin, Nov 20 '12 at 8:45, by Cicada
@ThePhD Get on a boat and drown, please.
wow a translator actually made a reasonable sentence: Seriously. No matter what happens, it could be worse. This means that it is not that bad.
lol why did that get binned
00:06
@sehe Woooops.
@Cicada So now Luc's the jerk, eh?
@Cicada "please"
@Cicada I have no idea
Too polite.
@EtiennedeMartel Yes. I said please.
@ThePhD Move somewhere where they speak French. You'll pick it up in no time.
@Cicada Ah ben là.
@doug65536 Yeah, it's an excellent translation.
00:09
My axis values are -1 to 1.0
Now that I can reach the Trigger values in an Xbox 360 controller,
what should they be?
0.0 to 1.0 ?
.tga? @_@
@ThePhD sure
@Cicada that's just example stuff
TGA is an okay file format.
00:10
@ThePhD if you mean the index finger triggers, -1.0 is full left trigger, 1.0 is full right trigger. Is that what you meant?
It's how I learned about RLE and stuff.
@Cicada The Lazy Ass' approach to textures.
@ThePhD :cripes:
@doug65536 I separate them out.
00:10
@Cicada I said okay, not great. D:
PNG is still master race.
Anyway, that's built-in debugger
except PNG isn't supported in developing countries
Which si what my engine is for!
and mine
lolololo
Bringing PNG masterraceness to all native platforms.
/allthepuns
00:12
@ThePhD have you considered fixed point? More accuracy, sometimes faster if user code is consistent with it, otherwise slower.
@ThePhD I had minor issues with noisy values near zero and 1 (not quite being 0 or 1 for example) so I scale, bias, and clamp appropriately
@MooingDuck All Axes have an int32 Axis[#] () and a float NormalizedAxis[#] () member.
So you can get the raw value or the normalized value at will.
@ThePhD well the first one is effectively fixed point, so that works. Just a curiosity.
Yeah, that's what I meant.
My Q implementation still isn't done yet.
So I can't use it as my Fixed Point type yet.
I wish CPU's has fixed point 0.0-1.0 native mul/div. Or even -1.00000000002 to 1.0
00:15
MMX has it, SSE does too I believe (mulhi or something)
@doug65536 SWEET
I am going to sleep
good night, loungers.
night
Xeo
Xeo
Crap, my speakers are making noise. :/
pmulhw - Multiplies 16bit integers and returns the high 16bits of the result.
Xeo
Xeo
00:17
Seems I need to get new ones.
@BartekBanachewicz Later.
@Xeo Stop listening to garbage!
@Xeo I'd figure speakers that wouldn't make any sounds were the ones most obviously in need of replacement. Mine make noise almost every time my kids decide what videos to play.
Xeo
Xeo
@Cicada static noise.
As long as it's not global
Xeo
Xeo
00:19
It's global to my room
@Xeo That's most likely just a loose connection. Probably needs nothing but a small soldering job.
Xeo
Xeo
Eh, they're 5 year old 5€ speakers anyways. I'm surprised they still work at all.
FPUs are so fast now there is little justification for fixedpoint anymore though
@Xeo Oh, in that case I'd agree -- probably not worth repairing.
@doug65536 FWIW, supporting more fixed point in parallel would almost certainly be easier.
@doug65536 true
00:22
HAHA
ooh, Firefox 19 is out, with built-in pdf viewer. That's one piece of shitty software I can get rid of now!
What's the point of fixed point (pun not intended)
FUCK YEAH, TAKE THAT DIRECTINPUT MICROSOFT BADFACE MOTHERFUCKERS
Oh my. That one was just begging the slamdunk response ^
@Cicada more accuracy and speed.
00:23
@MooingDuck Can you configure it?
@Cicada Yes (at least usually).
@Cicada Almost every console chip game implemented their physics and such by using fixed-point math. Plus, it's usually a hell of a lot less ambiguous than floating-point.
@Cicada I don't know about hardware fixed point, but software fixed point can be any range.
E.g., Super Mario used a byte for it's sub-pixel position, and a WORD for its overall world position.
Eh I didn't know that
So whats the point of floating point lol
00:24
x86 has great support for fixedpoint, with its 32x32=64 multiplies, 64/32=32/32 divides, and shrd shld instructions
Floating point is a semantic held together by spit and glue that a bunch of people agreed upon to represent numbers.
So fixed point doesn't have denormals and nan and that weird shit?
@Cicada floating point has bigger range and (more accuracy for values close to zero).
@Cicada Maintaining a specified level of precision across a wide range of magnitudes.
@Cicada correct
00:25
Well I'll look into that then
Fixed Point is indeed very sexy.
Xeo
Xeo
Dat edit
When designing a puzzle platformer, using a single Q notation or making a variable Q notation is highly beneficial:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SSSE3 PMULHRSW "treat the sixteen-bit words in registers A and B as signed 15-bit fixed-point numbers between −1 and 1"
Q is a fixed point number format where the number of fractional bits (and optionally the number of integer bits) is specified. For example, a Q15 number has 15 fractional bits; a Q1.14 number has 1 integer bit and 14 fractional bits. Q format is often used in hardware that does not have a floating-point unit and in applications that require constant resolution. Characteristics Q format numbers are (notionally) fixed point numbers (but not actually a number itself); that is, they are stored and operated upon as regular binary numbers (i.e. signed integers), thus allowing standard integer h...
00:26
@ThePhD I dislike Q because it can't handle non-power-of-twos
oh god I fucking hate DirectWrite. works fine in debug&32bit, nothing happens in release&32bit, nothing happens in debug&bit, and it works fine in release&64bit...wat
@MooingDuck Well, in the end, you're writing to hardware registers whcih are going to be powers of two anyways.
Xeo
Xeo
@melak47 Sounds like UB!
@R.MartinhoFernandes why is the content of the github readme not (partially) used as the Home page of the documentation site? (PS. Have you found my edit?)
Floating point also tends to be more sensible as you exceed the limits. With floating point, you lose some precision, but with fixed point you get overflow, leading to answers that are wildly inaccurate (but in some cases this is good, because it makes problems obvious, where FP can lead to wrong answers that still seem reasonable).
00:27
@melak47 sounds like uninitialized variables
@ThePhD no, I mean, fixed point is better viewed as a fraction with a constant base. If that base is 100 (common for banks), there is no corresponding Q notation.
@MooingDuck Ah, I see what you mean, yes.
@JerryCoffin FP also makes replay engines a nightmare. Because subtle loses in precision means that commands working with a same subset of data can eventually fuck everything over.
you could implement money with pennies, that would be nearly the same thing as fixedpoint
@doug65536 That's how a lot of systems do it, with a little bit of failover digits.
@doug65536 that is fixed point.
00:29
A 30 minute simulation where the precision of the data is not quite right will become noticeable only after some 10 minutes fo simulation, and suddenly your character is moon-jumping at the slightest poke.
@ThePhD failover digits screw up everything. Better off without them
@ThePhD ...but if you're Lorenz, you find a whole new area of math from that.
@MooingDuck Also easier to implement without them. :D
It also makes me sad,
@MooingDuck usually fixedpoint means that some of the bits are fractional and on crap processors you want to use bit shifts. technically I agree that you are correct though
the majority of physics engine do not have any kind of fixed point support.
Usually, it is mostly FP, because people have staked their lives on FP.
00:31
@doug65536 yeah, powers-of-two/Q format is faster/easier hardware in binary-based machines.
Well double precision is enough for a lot of stuff
For games that run complex physics or simulations, you have to re-base the world every few decimal places, otherwise things will start going batshit crazy.
@Cicada yeah, the additional precision is usually meh. it's the rounding errors that I hate. Fixed point doesn't do rounding errors any more than int does.
00:32
Ha.
I'd expect that, most of the time, the FP imprecision won't actually lead to a different gameplay outcome.
you can bias the multiplier/divisor to make it effectively round
Maria-sama ga miteru's second season ended satisfyingly.
you just need to be more specific about your needs for "reproducible".
I should have tried CUDA with fixed precision
I don't even know if that's possible though
00:34
modern GPUs are good enough at integer math, but why would you, when they have incredibly good latency hiding on a gpu. the precision I guess
What should I call the Rumble Pack functions?
Because I do a fuckload of memory accesses anyway
0
Q: File pointers in an array

usr55410Very raw with C. I'm writing a program that takes files as it's arguments, but this is rather annoying for debugging (GDB). Rather than have to re-type the file list each time that I start off in GDB, I'd rather store the file names in an array and modify the program to read this array rather tha...

I almost wish that worked
Rumble (int32 motorid, int32 rumblevalue ) ?
Jan 27 at 20:28, by sehe
Damn. The "Haskell is[n't] faster than C" guy must have committed suicide. It's been 4 days since I commented my C++ version (for the second time) and it is still "pending moderation"
^ The guy nuked the comment system now. Here's my response news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5248178.
Pro tip: If you're gonna have comments on your blog, be prepared to maintain your blog, and the comments as well.
@Cicada Oh man, if IO was that easy, I would be very happy.
&file1.txt
What a glorious syntax.
00:36
I believe you.
Or: TMI
lol, what are you thinking
What else
@sehe I kind of think his reasoning is valid..
That does look like advertisement Disqus decided to add themselves for no good reason
@DeadMG I remember starcraft replays used different seeds for a long time, so replays would be different than the origional.
@sehe What the hell is that post about
There's awfully lot of words in there
00:40
@sehe It's one of the cleanest series there is, actually.
@Rapptz Duh. Disable the ads. Of course I agree that the ads were evil. However, that doesn't make it "right" or even "make sense" to nuke your comments. I mean, throughout your whole blog.
This guy was painfully obviously too lazy too care about the comments. Mine had been awaiting moderation for about a month.
@CatPlusPlus My post, or the blog post?
Blog post
Yeah I don't know either, it didn't grasp my attention long enough for me to be interested to finishing.
@CatPlusPlus Well, mainly this: ZOMG C is faster than Haskell. And then this:
Jan 27 at 20:29, by sehe
Anyways, my C++ version (unoptimized) appeared to be 40x as fast as his -supposedly optimized-to-death- C version https://gist.github.com/4590998
@Rapptz The blog post was bad, IMO ^
It was a response to someone else's popular blog post claiming that Haskell was faster than C for certain problems.
Lemme guess the Haskell code wasn't optimised either
00:45
@sehe To be fair, his commenting provider did randomly insert a bunch of adverts without informing him.
@CatPlusPlus Not sure. I don't do haskell. I believe he might have taken the haskell from the post he was responding to. The point is he "optimized" the C version no end, and when I wrote a naive, mostly unoptimized C++ implementation, just for kicks, it turned out way faster.
@DeadMG Yeah yeah. I got that. How is that fair?
Time to write an optimized C++ version then
It's a valid excuse to nuke comments.
well, all I'm saying is that he's caught between a rock and a hard place.
Not fair to you, but it's a valid excuse IMO anyway.
00:45
news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5090717 Ahahaha oh gods this thread
Also, my response is mianly triggered by the fact that he had left my comment pending for a month, after making the first one disappear into a void. And I wasn't the first one.
if he doesn't get rid of his commenting provider, then he's serving a shitbunch of adverts and whatnot (and they were clearly deceiving, IYAM).
if he does, he fucked up everyone's comments.
fucked if you do, fucked if you don't.
@CatPlusPlus Almost certainly not (though I don't know Haskell well enough to be sure). Years ago, I looked at a comparison claiming to prove Java was faster than C++. I sped his (also supposedly highly optimized) C++ up by a factor of about 15 -- and his Java by a factor of about 7.5.
The guy seems just selfrighteous, when in fact he doesn't care about the comments and would rather go without them anyway.
@DeadMG Derp. Just disable it. It's in the preferences.
@JerryCoffin You can write straight-up imperative code in Haskell that uses completely unboxed values
00:47
@CatPlusPlus Whoa.. He's serious. The first code you see is quicksort.
What's up with that
@CatPlusPlus That's mumbo for "doen't suck completely"
@sehe I, one-time reader, do not give a shit about preferences.
That blog post is hilarious too
> C may be old, but beating C for raw performance is quite hard (if it is possible at all, even FORTRAN still has its uses) and there are applications where the sheer number of computers working on a single problem outweighs the programmer cost advantage offered by an easy to use language (I’ve never heard anybody describe Haskell as ‘easy’, but it may very well be easier than C, I just do not know) by a considerable margin.
@DeadMG DERP! DERP! it's in his preferences. He, the blog owner should care about preferences.
Jesus fuck what does this even mean :words: :words: :words:
00:49
@sehe Are you implying that's me DERPing? How the fuck should I know what's in his preferences?
It's hard to beat C so FORTRAN and harder to use languages better because you can throw more computers at a problem? What
@DeadMG Because (a) I just told you (b) that was mentioned by me before (c) it is mentioned on that HN thread
Holy shit
@sehe Well, I sure didn't read b or c, and a was well after I wrote it.
> The example chosen is quite apt because a lot of the problems in the field of computational genomics are exactly such problems. Other advantages from efficient code may translate into hard real time guarantees, improved battery life, lower charges from your service provider or a lower power bill. And since the environmental impact of computing is more and more on the radar optimization may find a new lease on life.
00:50
what you want me to do, read every comment you ever wrote, or a 250-comment HN thread?
Shut up stop talking stop posting stop posting
@DeadMG ?!
@Rapptz It's a community wiki
Besides language comparisons are always terrible
> Hey, it's actually longer than the C version! And it uses 3 imports. And it's still slower than the original C. Oops. I wonder why they didn't put that one in the tutorial.
STOP POSTING
@CatPlusPlus No it means it's not worth it to pick a language 'for performance' if you can throw more hardware at the problem.
00:52
@LucDanton I seriously can't see past all the words
So are we bashing people who bash Haskell?
(The quote above is different guy)
@CatPlusPlus You keep saying that
No, I'm bashing people who are terrible posters
I couldn't care less if they like Haskell or not
@LucDanton That may well be what he means, but if so I have to agree with Cat -- it's quite poorly expressed (at best).
00:53
> That wiki link to an actual implementation of quicksort in Haskell is pure comedy gold
So is your post (why are those people arguing about fucking quicksort jesus)
@JerryCoffin Oh yeah. I must have glanced over the first reading.
> Plus quicksort is a classic morass- by the time you harden it enough to deal with real world data you could have written a proper merge sort
It's hard to use already existing implementation~
To be honest, for an introduction they should have chosen something better than quicksort
@Rapptz It's a classic of teaching FP.
@CatPlusPlus Have you seen this yet? you probably won't survive it if you tried to read this:
Feb 14 at 9:32, by sehe
Geez. That article is seriously TL;DR (>5k words). And then, the second comment prompts a reply in 5 comments netting another 1k words?!!!
Feb 14 at 9:37, by sehe
In fact the total comments (24 comments) add > 3100 words to the article. Of which 2200 words are author replies. So. He blabber about the definition of OOP for >7k words. He must be addinng something to the world
00:55
whoa
@sehe Quick, reply with "yall faggots in this thred"
@sehe 5K words is too long for some people?
> how do we design a proper object-oriented system?
wank wank wank
> [Optional] A little history…
00:56
@Insilico You obviously haven't clicked through to the article. It's about "proper object oriented programming"
Ahaahahahahahhahahahahhahaahahahahahahaha
OPTIONAL
Thank you you grace for letting me not read this section
> Bad object orientation is mainstream, but good object orientation is rare. Open up the Android source code (just to mention a relatively recent large-scale development) and you’ll see that 5000 LOC classes are the norm, more than the exception.
> Number of words: 5092
@sehe The hell you need 5k words to explain "proper OO programming" for?
Yes this is the most terrible thing about Android
Lines of code
:codes:
00:57
It doesn't matter how many Lines of Code there are, so long as the software is well-designed and well-written.
@Insilico See, I knew you'd come around once you'd actually look at it
What the fuck is this wankery about "proper OO programming"?
@ThePhD Well large classes can be indication of responsibility issues
Seriously the entire article could be rewritten with 75% less words and it would convey the exact same amount of information
But really you can point to any piece of idiomatic Java code and it'll be bad OOP
00:58
Also, note that some of my valued (former) colleagues seem to take this completely seriously:
> I’ll assume that most of you guys are not familiar with my work on the Physics of Software, so I’ll recap a simple notion here, that will be useful in understanding what follows.
@CatPlusPlus s/OOP//.
> the Physics of Software
@JerryCoffin That too yeah
00:59
@sehe maybe be cause he has black glasses
@Cicada I have that too, when I'm in direct sunlight.
> Software is encoded in artifacts. It doesn’t really matter if you write procedural, functional, or OO code. It doesn’t really matter if you use models or code. We cannot manipulate information; we can only manipulate a representation of information (artifact). Languages and paradigms define the structure of their artifacts, and provide modular units.
WTF is "the Physics of Software".
@Insilico LAZORS
Yes this sounds very interesting
00:59
9 mins ago, by Cat Plus Plus
Shut up stop talking stop posting stop posting

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