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Ell
Ell
19:00
Boy am I awkward. I was wearing my jacket inside out through my whole piano lesson xD
@LucDanton Yeah, press Ctrl+M in Total Commander
@CatPlusPlus Don't think they support my system.
k, managed it with Python.
BF3 might be a bit too heavy on the post processing effects.
@EtiennedeMartel More bloom.
@EtiennedeMartel I agree. Although sometimes an aesthetic doesn't work as well on a still image as it does when everything is in motion.
19:11
Motion blur works especially well
@EtiennedeMartel Mind-blowing how much work they put into simulating a camera with a really lousy lens.
And lens flares
@CatPlusPlus o u
@JerryCoffin It's ridiculous
If I got a lens that flared nearly that much, I'd send it back for replacement as obviously defective.
19:12
@JerryCoffin Did you know some games use grain?
@LucDanton No, but it doesn't surprise me. Certainly some imitate particular types of film and/or processing (e.g., bleach-bypass processing).
Motion blur, lens flares, FOV 60 and bam, you've got another Call of Duty
Ell
Ell
Wow it looks awful before sky
relatively
@JerryCoffin Hey, why make games when you can make interactive films!
I wish they stopped at like Step 15.
19:14
@Ell Yeah, but note that "foliage" is step 4, not step 13.
The rest just seems pretty overkill.
@CatPlusPlus COD does not look as good as BF3, though. But I get your point.
@JerryCoffin I was really thinking of Left 4 Dead, which also has loading screens that are designed like horror movie posters. So in that case it's entirely assumed!
@EtiennedeMartel Interactive films are fine -- but couldn't you imitate a camera with a decent lens?
Ell
Ell
@DeadMG Oh yeah good call
19:14
Also steps 14 and 15 are most of the lighting on the scene
@JerryCoffin I think most developers want their games to look like a Hollywood film.
And big budget blockbusters do have similar effects.
They obviously took a page from JJ's book
MORE LENS FLARES THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH LENS FLARES ON STAGE
It's fucking awful
I'm watching interior of a spaceship and it suddenly turns into a sun
@CatPlusPlus It makes sense if the ship is next to a sun.
@EtiennedeMartel Quite true.
Otherwise, not so much.
19:17
@EtiennedeMartel Bad call, IMO. In movies they use extremely wide-range zoom lenses nearly out of necessity -- getting good color matching when you swap lenses is pretty hard, so they avoid it if possible. A 20:1 zoom has a lot of elements, which leads to a lot of flare. With a prime (fixed-focal length) lens, you'll only see flare like that from something truly ancient.
@JerryCoffin Well, it's not necessity when you do it in post-production
IT'S BAD IT'S SO FUCKING BAD
Post-prod isn't free. The argument still holds.
@ThePhD Why are you committing binaries
@JerryCoffin I don't think any of them care.
I really get the feeling most designers are actually wannabe film directors.
@CatPlusPlus Exactly -- utterly pointless in a case like this. Roughly equivalent to a word processor that forced you to print out a page and paint over a mistake before it'd let you back-space, to give you an "authentic typewriter experience."
@EtiennedeMartel That wouldn't be so bad if they were trying to be competent film directors.
19:20
Gotta make those \r count
@JerryCoffin If they could be competent film directors, they wouldn't be game designers.
@EtiennedeMartel You probably have a point there.
Many games these days try to be films, hence why so many of them seem to be essentially galleries of set pieces delivered in a linear fashion, with so much focus on spectacle.
(Please note that in the previous sentence, "films" refer to that particular kind of Hollywood big budget action film)
user142019
Hello.
That glosses over the long history of linear games that look nothing like films.
19:25
What I'm saying is that there's some tremendous wasted potential here.
You know that "show, don't tell" thing? Well, for games, it should be "play, don't show". Or something. I'm still working on that.
@EtiennedeMartel The later Resident Evil games?
@EtiennedeMartel I think it happens for the same reason as in Hollywood: it's an easy way to substitute budget for creativity.
@EtiennedeMartel In some cases it's "play, don't tell"
@MooingDuck RE4 was good. Very good, in fact. Then it all went downhill.
Concur with not enough "don't tell".
Ell
Ell
19:27
I think games should have brilliant graphics and it's not a problem if they tell a story, it's all the immersive experience
I have no problems with linearity. After all, stories are linear, so some sacrifices have to be made to teach one. What I dislike is railroading, because then you could pretty much replace the player with an AI at that point. Case in point: Battlefield 3's horrendous single player campaign.
@Ell They don't really have to tell a story, that's the thing. A player makes the game almost as much as the designer does.
I think I'll try sleeping right now. Let's see what happens.
Metroid Prime is a great example of interactive storytelling, and there's barely any plot in it.
@LucDanton Later.
@Ell As for graphics... "brilliant" doesn't necessarily mean "photo realistic". Take Machinarium, for instance. It's really beautiful, yet far from realistic.
user142019
19:32
GitHub for Windows y u no merge conflicts.
Aaaanyway. Games should be games. It's what they're best at.
Ell
Ell
seeeenit
@MarcusStuhr What I dislike with that is the cutscenes, not the linearity.
19:40
I agree (for the most part)
You never need cutscenes in a game.
Well, almost never.
Personally I dislike games that are too linear, but I also dislike open sandbox games
Too many cutscenes turn the entire experience into an interactive movie... not really a game anymore
I like games like OoT, where you have a world to explore but the general story is linear.
Ell
Ell
OoT?
19:41
Ocarina of Time
@Ell you. out.
:P
Ell
Ell
Heh :P
@Rapptz You know, most "sandbox" games these days are like that.
Ell
Ell
It's okay, I've played it :P
On a nintendo 64 no less
In fact, the main difference between a Zelda-like Action Adventure title and, say, Assassin's Creed is the level design.
19:41
@EtiennedeMartel yeah, like minecraft, skyrim... oh wait
Anyway, Majora's Mask was the best Zelda.
I didn't like the original AC too much, the second one was better.
I think the difference is that OoT's "sandbox" elements weren't so expansive that it felt like there was no direction
@ScottW It still is. Sure, the games are far from perfect, but they'll still blow your socks off.
something like Skyrim I feel like I can splinter off into multiple gamelines at any time
19:43
Assassin's Creed isn't all that great
@CatPlusPlus I think AC2 was the high point of the series.
@EtiennedeMartel MM was fantastic
@EtiennedeMartel "In a true "sandbox," the player has tools to modify the world themselves and create how they play." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_world
Stop quoting Wikipediaaaa
I'm a sucker for games with time travel aspects
19:43
@CatPlusPlus quote something at all
@EtiennedeMartel In some ways it was even more repetitive than 1 though
But yeah bit better
@CatPlusPlus Yes, but it did not feel that way at first.
Still it's something you can play through once
It does kill all replayability, though.
19:44
I still hold that a cat in an internet chat room is not a more authoritative source than wikipedia.
But has little to no replayability factor
You can run on roofs for so long
I wouldn't mind a Majora's Mask remake.
Even though Nintendo's been doing a lot of remakes :|
@Rapptz pokemon-firered style?
Ell
Ell
majoras mask was so annoying :O
Yeah, updated graphics and the such.
Ell
Ell
19:45
as was the water temple in OoT
@EtiennedeMartel I hated that one
I think I am the only person alive who loved the Water Temple
Ell
Ell
not even a mother could love the water temple
Water Temple in OoT?
I never got stuck there and wasn't aware of its difficulty until people posted about it.
hi all
Ell
Ell
19:46
When you lose the zora it's annoying as hell :P
forgot her name
@Quuxplusone hi
That wasn't the water temple
@Ell different dungeon
In other words, with respect to overall gameplay, I'm a fan of global linearity with localized nonlinearity
@MooingDuck It was so fucking dark and weird.
If that makes sense
19:48
@EtiennedeMartel I had to do every dungeon soooo many times because I couldn't do them fast enough :(
Ell
Ell
Really? :O what temple was that? I know there was that fish. Whatsisname.
Jabu jabu
quick C++11 question, hopefully: is there any syntactically nicer way of writing "if (mycontainer.find(element) != mycontainer.end()) { ... }" ? something closer to Python's "if (element in mycontainer)" ?
Ell
Ell
but still in the water temple you had to follow the adult version of that zora
yeah jabu jabu
19:48
sorry to interrupt the Zelda discussion :D
Barinaaaaade
@Ell the girl was in jabujabu's dungeon, yes.
@Quuxplusone not that I know of.
@Ell I don't recall any zora in teh water temple
A colleague of mine just brought in a C++ question.
19:49
@Quuxplusone I like to make it two lines, but no, not unless they're sorted
@Quuxplusone you could make it it's own function;
@EtiennedeMartel What is it?
Ell
Ell
@MooingDuck Hmm. Nevermind then. All I remember is the water temple was annoying as hell :L
struct A { int u; }
struct B : A { int v; }

B b = ...;
int * p = reinterpret_cast<int *>(&b);
bool included_in(const container& c, const element& e)
{return std::find(std::begin(c), std::end(c), e)!=std::end(c);}
In the above code, which member does p points to? u or v?
19:51
@EtiennedeMartel that's undefined behavior isn't it? (though it would be u on most systems)
@Ell Open your map, check the room you did not visit yet.
@MooingDuck Abolutely no idea.
@EtiennedeMartel if it's defined, then definitely u. but I'm not sure it's defined
@EtiennedeMartel I'm pretty sure that's UB.
I wonder what the Zelda on the Wii U will be..
Doesn't inheritance make B a non-POD struct, therefore it doesn't necessarily obey C's rules of member ordering?
19:53
@Rapptz Pure joy in gaming form.
I'm curious how they're incorporate the game pad for non-obvious things like storage and UI elements.
@Rapptz Is there a way to set up additional files to compile through the linker via ST2?
.cpp files?
yes
well, cc files actually
lol
you and the robot with your weird file extensions
afaik, I don't know. I know you can do *.cpp to compile multiple cpp files
but I usually do header only stuff anyway because linking is a bitch
19:58
@R.MartinhoFernandes Got any idea about this?
also i think i encountered a bug in your bigint class
hm?
It may be due to my own misuse but given the expression A*A-D*B*B where A and B are BigIntegers and D is an int, the result comes out to be "1" which, when converted via .toString(), is 0001
and so it returns false when I check if A*A-D*B*B == 1 even if it should be working

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