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3:03 AM
@JerryCoffin Hmm, maybe they changed something? Even if I select a single page, it extracts the first five and then ask for the serial key. Thanks anyway.
 
^ Playback or no?
 
Xeo
150k/260k....
 
XPDF did the job.
 
3:16 AM
posted on July 19, 2012

If a textbook teaches the first two forms, and then mentions the last three forms only as an afterthought, most readers will probably stick to the first two forms and not use the other three at all.

 
Xeo
Dang it, I just want to use my external HDD again... I need to play Muv-Luv x_x
160k/260k
 
None of my two preferred ways to iterate over a vector made it to Andrew's list ^
 
Get yourself a nice USB3 or esata drive. If you go with esata, don't go over 2TB.
 
First, using just an int or ptrdiff_t (under name of Size) as index. It's counter-productive to try to use type-specific index types. Or unsigned ones.
Secondly, using a for_each loop. It works in Visual C++. While the newfangled C++11 loop doesn't.
 
You'll be sexually excited by the speed of USB3.
 
3:21 AM
If a textbook doesn't teach these two practical ways, the reader will get the impression that the impractical ways that are discussed or mentioned, are good.
 
Xeo
@Cheersandhth.-Alf How is that counter-productive.
@Cheersandhth.-Alf VS2012 has ranged-for
@Mysticial Are you a templar of USB3 or something?
 
@Xeo lol no... But the shit is damn convenient though.
 
@Xeo r u sure? it doesn't work in vs2010
 
Xeo
190k/260k
@Cheersandhth.-Alf That's why I said 2012
@Mysticial Only if both ends support it, though
my PC is old
 
vs2012 ide sucks
 
Xeo
3:25 AM
get the compiler from windows SDK
 
Xeo
also, how is 2012 different from 2010, really?
Except if you mean that "temporary tab"
And I quite like that one
 
@Xeo True. But at least it's backwards compatible. I have a few esata drives. And they had to come with separate USB2 ports for machines without esata.
 
Xeo
I'd like quantum wiring. Accessing the world were the bytes are already were I want them
 
My machines aren't all in the same place. But the campus seems to have 100 Mb/s internally. So I can pretty much move things around over a virtual network at half the speed of USB2.
 
3:34 AM
I'm already using "WIP" to make my commit messages briefer.
 
Xeo
215k/260k
slowly but surely!
Oh yeah, could just install eMahjong and play some while waiting
 
0
Q: What is the efficient way to backup large files?

user838204I have the schedule job of backing large files in Windows Server and it takes almost 2 hours to finish. For now, I only use copy command in the .bat and copy the large files to another folder. I'm wondering whether there is more efficient way than the copy command to backup the large files(appr...

^^ migrate?
oh wait, nvm... he wants it in C++
 
3:50 AM
Haskell is becoming more appealing to me with every passing day.
 
Xeo
220k/260k
5k progress updates, yay.
250k/260k
that was quite a jump
I think you mean "stored contiguously." I don't think that vector elements carry any diseases. — cdhowie 19 secs ago
lol'd
> I am aware that the elements of std::vector are stored contagiously
from the question
 
I had 99 cookies, but a bitch ate one.
 
4:05 AM
@DomagojPandža Any progress on your little game?
 
Having fun implementing some direct bindings to OpenGL, trying to outline it in a functional language has, thus far, been a really nice change of pace. Luckily, I had the benefit of a background in mathematics, so it's turning out to be quite fun. :D
Although, the syntax - still ugly. :Đ
But the core ideas are awesome, especially for writing a parser, my buddy started working on a new interpreter after I had sucked him in.
I'll just run through the basic binding process, writing up the basic modules and getting the most basic stuff up, then I'll have my soul rest easy while I allow myself to rely on someone else's work. Especially when that guy is called Sven. :Đ
(HOpenGL)
I have no intention of reinventing the wheel, but I might add some more modern extensions from the 3.x core profile
But honestly, imperative languages feel a lot better when writing 3D games/simulations.
 
@DomagojPandža Yeah, for language processing it is really cool.
 
I'm a control freak and the idea that something isn't there and pops into existence at the last minute without me knowing where or how is freaking me out.
Managing memory makes me feel safe. And I can blame only myself if I mess up.
A game in Haskell - pure bragging rights.
 
Did I mention the LLVM bindings are actually better in Haskell than in the original C++?
 
Pervasive IO monad is pervasive.
 
4:20 AM
unsafePerformIO to the rescue!
Half-kidding.
Is a std::pair<pod, pod> guaranteed POD?
Ah, no non-user-provided operator=. WTF. WHYYY. Dammit.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Nope. :D
Looping in Haskell. Like asking a cat to bark.
 
Xeo
4:45 AM
Oh, yay, now it's the free clusters that get checked
34m/257m
I'm seriously running out of things to do
40m
at a lovely rate of ~20k/sec
2h 45min, roughly
and there will be more stuff after that...
Well, I had a reason to avoid clicking "check disk" everytime I connected my HDD
since I knew it'd end up taking this long
 
You know @Xeo is bored when he's live blogging his chkdsk progress...
 
Xeo
:(
 
@Mysticial s/@Xeo/anyone
 
Xeo
Maybe I should tweet my progress...
What I'm fearing the most right now would be accidentally pulling the USB cable
 
5:00 AM
@Mysticial Right up there with blogging about your grass growing, or (my favorite) paint drying!
 
Xeo
Tell me and I'll stop. :P
 
so if I'm rewriting streams/localization, should I allow streaming to/from all char types from all streams? If so, what should utf32stream >> char16_t result in? (and all the other mismatches)
 
Xeo
Can you stream wchar_t from / to std::basic_ostream<char>? No.
 
@MooingDuck That's too interesting. Do you have anything more boring? Something like Windows update progress?
 
Xeo
(Or can you?)
@Mysticial :(
Indirect attacks are mean
 
5:05 AM
@MooingDuck Nocompilies.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I guess that makes sense.
 
Xeo
Breaking news! We just passed the 60m landmark!
only 190m to go
T minus 189m
:D
 
Morning guys
 
Xeo
@ManofOneWay Mornin! Just to bring you up-to-date, I just passed 60m clusters out of 260m clusters on my chkdsk run on my external 2TB HDD
 
Sounds exciting :P
 
Xeo
5:09 AM
very
 
@ManofOneWay He's been boring the hell out of us for hours...
 
We should go back and star every single one of his chkdsk progress updates.
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Atleast I get my chat message count up this way
T minus 185m
 
I remember Seth live blogging Clang on Windows. But even that didn't take this long.
 
5:10 AM
@Xeo Ha. You're still a long way away, kid.
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Should I start documenting in 20k steps? :)
 
Also, I just missed my 100kth message! Oh noes!
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes You should start blogging about that.
 
Xeo
don't worry, in an hour you'll have 30mins of peace while I go walk the dog again and buy some stuff
 
4 hours ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
@DeadMG Make it part of the API and request a pull.
 
5:12 AM
Every time you post a new message, you should update us with the counter.
 
Found it.
Not particularly great.
 
@ManofOneWay morning? Oh, I guess it is for you Europeans isn't it?
 
Xeo
7:14am here
 
@ManofOneWay wait, were you the guy from India?
 
Xeo
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: chkdsk live blog from 7-12, tune in! [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq]
 
5:15 AM
Oh, you didn't.
 
Xeo
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: chkdsk live blog from 7-12, tune in! Progress: 35% [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq]
there
 
You could at least have used the site's clock, i.e., UTC.
 
Xeo
and we passed the 70m landmark not too long ago
so -2?
 
@Xeo When (and why) did the brainfuck tag get lost?
 
Xeo
Dunno, I didn't do it
 
5:17 AM
@JerryCoffin I usually purge those.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Hmm...that's sad. Where are all the brainfuck programmers going to chat now?
 
Xeo
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: chkdsk live blog from 5-10 UTC, tune in! Progress: 35% [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq] [chkdsk]
better?
T minus 175m
@JerryCoffin Yeah, robot purged it, just checked the history
 
@Xeo Hmm...The Xeo's chkdsk app, now on the App Store, only $4.95 ($14.95 for the higher-resolution "New iPad" version).
 
Xeo
It kinda feels like a duty now to keep everything up-to-date
 
@MooingDuck I'm from Sweden
 
5:25 AM
@ManofOneWay you should move to India so we don't have this problem anymore
 
@MooingDuck Maybe we should just move India to the northern Atlantic.
 
Now, the question is: what would the cows say?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes "Moo"?
 
Probably.
@DeadMG I just committed with this message: "grapheme_cluster_iterator (slow, buggy, and WET, but hey, it's a start)." I'll probably finish it tomorrow.
 
nice job
I look forward to ruthlessly stealing your codes
 
5:28 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I haven't met any cows displaced from India to the northern Atlantic, but the one I have met have been decidedly short on originality.
 
Xeo
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: chkdsk live blog from 5-10 UTC, tune in! Progress: 40% [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq] [chkdsk]
And I forgot to tell you that we passed the 80m landmark
we're now close to 90m
And we blasted right past the 90m landmark!
 
@Xeo chkdsk obviously needs to implement a web service interface so we can automate these things.
 
Xeo
hrhr
I could prob parse the cmd window
but too much effort
0
A: replace function in std::string giving problems in C++

ForEveRstring& replace ( size_t pos1, size_t n1, const string& str ); For the versions with parameters pos1 and n1, the section replaced begins at character position pos1 and spans for n1 characters within the string. So you should use for(int i = 0; i<CorrectAns.size();i++) { ...

this ForEveR guy's on a run with his answers
seems to have quite some knowledge too
 
1.5k on 83 answers.
 
Xeo
T minus 155m
What I find interesting is that processing the files showed progress by updating the same line, and processing the free clusters shows progress by outputting a new line
 
5:40 AM
Is there a way to move the cursor to the previous line by only printing characters?
 
Xeo
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: chkdsk live blog from 5-10 UTC, tune in! Progress: 45% [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq] [chkdsk]
 
I know how to clear a line by printing \b and such. That's how I do updates.
But now how to jump back a line.
 
Xeo
Woot! 100m landmark passed, what an achievement!
no idea
 
If you wanted to be annoying, you can randomly print beeps.
 
Xeo
lol
 
5:45 AM
I like how it's a BIOS beep too. So you can't just turn off the speakers.
 
Xeo
I pulled that beeper thing out
Was a bad idea when my graka made my PC not boot
 
Hmm... I have access to a portion of the large supercomputer here. I wonder if they'll get pissed off if I launched a 128 processor job of infinite loop beeps.
 
Xeo
lol
 
@Xeo Yeah that tends to be a bad idea cause you don't know overheating and other signals.
 
Xeo
no more updates, mahjong time
 
5:48 AM
aww...
What's even more boring than chkdsk updates are no updates...
 
Xeo
I'll do the topic updates atleast, don't worry :P
110m!
 
Xeo
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: chkdsk live blog from 5-10 UTC, tune in! Progress: 50% [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq] [chkdsk]
120m
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: chkdsk live blog from 5-10 UTC, tune in! Progress: 550% [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq] [chkdsk]
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: chkdsk live blog from 5-10 UTC, tune in! Progress: 55% [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq] [chkdsk]
woops
130m!
 
6:24 AM
Dealing with hardware proper.
 
6:37 AM
@Xeo can't still be at 55%
where's my updates?
 
@MooingDuck Probably fell asleep...
Stayed up the whole night watching chkdsk with more concentration than I could marathon a 24-episode Anime.
 
7:01 AM
hmm
 
hey mysticial
 
are typedefs inherited?
 
I wanted to run by you some rules for more relaxed unions I decided on in Wide
I figured that, for any set where every type is trivially constructible and trivially destructible, then the type pun should be guaranteed to be safe, right?
 
template <class T, class Head, class... Tail>
struct one_of: one_of<T, Tail...>
{};

template <class T, class U>
struct one_of<T, U>
{};

template <class T, class Head, class... Tail>
struct one_of<T, T, Head, Tail...>
{
    using type = T;
};
I hope thats small enough to paste in here...
so I'd like to do this (except with other types too, as there's a type_traits class for this already):
template <class T>
using scalar_type = typename one_of<float, double, long double>::type;
 
yes, I believe they are inherited
you can do something like template<typename T> class is_same<T, T> : public std::true_type {};
 
7:07 AM
yeah, and then enable_if
the point was to take advantage of SFINAE but I just wanted to clean up the syntax a little
 
@DeadMG I believe so. I'm not sure if the standard guarantees it, but every single compiler allows it.
I did read somewhere that C99 and C++11 explicitly allow typepunning via unions. But I haven't (tried) to find the reference for it.
For primitive types, for sure. I suppose the same for trivially constructable if it means:

1. Non polymorphic
2. No RAII
But do be aware of padding.
I've only ever type-punned primitive types of the same size. (and arrays of primitive types)
 
weird, I typed up a code sample and it worked :P well then.
btw, for the record, the first parameter of the scalar_type thing was suppose to be T, and it is in my code
 
@Mysticial Yeah, I meant as a more conceptual thing, for inclusion in Wide.
 
@DeadMG Up on the website yet? Or repo?
 
Wide?
 
7:13 AM
the language I am designing
 
ah
You're designing a language?
 
@DomagojPandža This specific one should be on website.
I usually upload to website before pushing to repo
laugh at how under-specified it is currentlyt
 
@DeadMG yeah, I was gonna say...
WIP
lol
 
I actually have a lot more to add
I think
but ever since I failed my degree and other RL things, I've been slacking on the work front.
 
@DeadMG Failed or lazy but recoverable? :D
 
7:15 AM
failed
no matter how much I resit, I am never going to memorize that instruction set. Fuck that guy with a flagpole.
 
You can't just stay another year to meet the requirements?
 
Memorizing an instruction set?!
 
@DomagojPandža yeah I was gonna say... WTF would you need to memorize an instruction set?
 
@Mysticial Technically I could attempt to do so. But in reality, it's unlikely to produce the necessary results.
 
Xeo
@Mysticial Nah, like I said, went to walk the dog and buy some stuff
 
7:16 AM
I designed my own instruction sets for virtual machines and managed to forget them. The fuck? That's not a quality of a software engineer - or a computer scientist for that matter.
 
indeed
plus the guy who wants me to memorize matrix equations
 
Xeo
and before that mahjong
 
as far as I care or, indeed, need to know, you multiply two matrices like this: D3DXMATRIX a, b; a = a * b;
 
Xeo
and nobody talked anymore, so I went quiet :P
 
anyway
 
7:18 AM
how much else is there besides multiplying and determinants?
 
the point is that they suck colossal sums of dick
and it's never gonna happen that I'mma pass their shitstorm of a course
 
@vedosity A lot. But a software engineer doesn't have to be an expert on linear algebra.
I chose to be because of curiosity and interest requirements (rendering solutions / physics )
 
@vedosity eigenvalues, eigenvectors, inversion, gaussian elimination, QR factorization, etc...
 
But a software engineer - no way, jose
 
the list goes on and on...
 
7:19 AM
I haven't taken linear algebra yet, but I'm writing some vector and matrix stuff for graphics
I'll take it... as soon as I get to college. Fyi, high school computer science teachers are most likely idiots
 
You won't learn anything at school. if you're interested, you'll do it on your own.
 
Xeo
200m landmark!
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: chkdsk live blog from 5-10 UTC, tune in! Progress: 80% [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq] [chkdsk]
 
Especially blind programming teachers. The programming teacher at my school is literally blind.
 
@vedosity So are university compsci teachers.
anyway
 
Xeo
@MooingDuck here are your updates :)
 
7:21 AM
At school/uni, you'll get a dude yapping his balls off without qualification, rejecting any questions as insults to his esteemed ego which hides the fact he knows very little.
 
the point is that without a degree or experience, careerwise I am up shit creek without a canoe
 
I guess if you're good at what you do you don't become a teacher
@Domagoj sounds exactly like I would describe my teacher
Tried to teach him C# accessors once...
didn't end well
 
Xeo
Don't talk back to teachers. Ignore them and learn on your own if they're incompetent
 
yeah
that's less easy than it sounds
 
Yeah, it's just a job for them as well.
 
7:23 AM
Will do. I stayed quiet and helped other students when I finished my projects
he didn't have a problem with that
 
You have to make use of them for what they're worth and that's it.
 
But everything can learned, matrices at first look intimidating and pointless (hell, linear algebra is fantastic compared to abstract algebra or category theory). They're a natural repercussion of the need to transform vector spaces, which is what linear algebra is all about.
 
Xeo
@DomagojPandža I missed high school lessons for vectors and matrices due to illness, so I never understood them
 
I was going to say, pointless? If you've ever worked with graphics or physics they're anything but pointless
well
 
Xeo
had a hard time "getting" them when we had them in our math lessons at the Games Academy. :/
 
7:25 AM
@Xeo They made you learn vectors and matrices in high school?
 
maybe the specifics of the math
 
Xeo
@Mysticial vectors at the very least, yeah
 
Mostly, as a 2D/3D programmer, you'll deal with linear transforms (mappings, operators, pick a name). Preserving vector addition and scalar multiplication.
 
@Xeo correction, I was thinking of linear algebra.
 
But you can't live without them.
They're awesome if you give them a chance.
 
7:26 AM
Basic vectors and matrices like determinants, yes I also learned early in high school.
 
@vedosity Right. But if you don't work in those two areas, then you've just wasted a chunk of your time.
 
True, true
 
that's the main thing I hated about both school and university
 
Well, I have a biased background as rendering architect / physicist / enthusiastic mathematician - so ... I shouldn't really glorify them. But - I agree with DeadMG - if it's not your field, it shouldn't be forced on you beyond the basics.
 
there's no prioritization, no focus
they just teach you whatever
 
7:27 AM
Yup, they just spew shit for 4 years
and if you're not competent enough to capture it on your own at home - you'll become one of those shitty software engineers
we make fun of here in the Lounge.
 
endlessly
 
Hahaha
 
Xeo
ugh, going at 15k clusters/sec now only :(
 
of course
 
But I have a tendency to think about every mathematical concept as either a means of transforming information or encoding information. And I love it that way.
 
7:29 AM
I was lucky enough to learn how to learn on my own pretty early on... but man, helping other students in the programming class is hard, I have a feeling there's gonna be a lot of shitty software engineers
 
if you can't get on with your teachers, your career is ruined and your life is over
 
Xeo
@vedosity Oh, I know that feel
 
@vedosity Software engineering is between a massive rock and an extremely hard place.
 
Xeo
I was lucky that at the Games Academy, you're thrown into projects from day 1
 
they need industrial quantities of something that is inherently creative and human
 
Xeo
7:30 AM
even if you have no idea how to do whatever you have to
 
and it's hard to make an ideas factory
 
@Xeo I often wonder if I was ever like that... I mean, I still do stupid things. Like abuse C++ to no end
 
@DeadMG if you can't get on with others your career is never doing to start and your life is over
any way, karting was awesome fun last night
 
@thecoshman There's a big difference between "Others" and "Everybody".
 
@MooingDuck The fact that my user number is a multiple of 1000 is already responsible for the three 5s and three of the five 2s. It's not my fault, I swear :)
 
7:32 AM
There's a space camp place that does star trek like simulators near where I live. Its an amazing place, I would know half of what I know today if it weren't for programming there
 
@DeadMG why do you being that up? my point is, if can't get on with people, you will find it hard to get a job
 
When you have a right mindset, everything becomes nice. For example, I had tons of issues with a few people who had problems at their uni (studying physics) and one of the problems with them was the fact that you can use solutions to the Laplace's equation (PDE), in particular the angular part of the solutions (spherical harmonics) as a way of encoding information about gravitational potentials.
And this went over the head to most of my buddies, so I had a shitload of trouble making them understand.
And explaining spherical harmonics from the perspective of precomputed GI calculations? Holy shit..
 
@DomagojPandža What is the right mindset so constipation becomes a nice thing?
 
@thecoshman I bring it up because "My university lecturers" are a tiny subset of people. Not just that, but they are the exact antithesis of everything valuable and useful in the field in which I'm in.
@FredOverflow You can take a long journey and not have to worry.
 
@thecoshman s/being/keep bringing/?
 
7:34 AM
@FredOverflow You rarely have to shit?
 
Fun fact: I've never been constipated.
 
@vedosity No, I shit at least once a day. Usually in the morning. Constipation was just the first thing that came to mind.
 
And I hear people talking about it, but I just can't sympathize
 
@FredOverflow /s/being/bring/
oh lord, my right arm is shot :P all shaky and numb
good job I'm left handed
 
@FredOverflow I meant whoever is constipated doesn't have to shit. It wasn't really a question.
 
7:36 AM
@vedosity He sure has to, but it doesn't flow nicely :)
 
What a brilliant way to correct other peoples spelling mistakes... Why haven't I seen that before?
 
@vedosity Because you have never read errata lists of technical books? It's used everywhere.
 
Oh, so does that come from sed or the other way around?
 
Good question. I don't know. I would guess sed was first.
 
Xeo
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: chkdsk live blog from 5-10 UTC, tune in! Progress: 85% [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq] [chkdsk]
 
7:40 AM
Oh, do modern Windows systems still have chkdsk? :)
 
Yeah I think there's other commands on sed so it would have to be first... but then again, wouldn't /s/being/bring/ replace all instances of being with bring?
 
Only on one line.
Use /g for everywhere
 
Hm. I need to read up on commands before I talk about them I guess :P
 
damn
there was some.... thing I was gonna DL and watch
 
@vedosity only the first time it finds 'being' by default regex does not do global searches
 
7:43 AM
@DeadMG But then your modem broke? Or did you simply forget what you were gonna DL and watch?
 
I forgot
 
Could someone explain why doesn't this code compile ideone.com/Qfn2p ? (the error is at the bottom)
 
because class ‘B’ does not have any field named ‘a’ ;)
 
hmm, so what about inheritance ?
 
@vedosity Exactly and completely correct with no omission or misleading statement.
@galymzhan What about it?
you initialize base classes through their constructors.
 
7:46 AM
you have to have the constructor in A have that in the initializer list, or do it in the body of the constructor
 
I'm allowed to initialize only own members of a class inside initializer list, right?
 
yup, no parent classes
on that note, is the right term parent classes? In obj-c I'd call it the superclass, but in c++... idk, that just sounds weird
 
we usually use base and derived
 
I heard that a mom hacked school records in order to boost the grades of her child
 
super and sub, I don't even know which is which
 
7:48 AM
I think that's hilarious
We're living in a new age, ladies and gentlemen
 
@Neil Little bobby tables?
2
 
ah shoot someone beat me to it
 
@galymzhan Your own members and the base objects, but not the members of the base objects.
 
@FredOverflow thanks, I got it. Also I should get a good book on C++ )
 
1343
Q: The Definitive C++ Book Guide and List

grepsedawkThis question attempts to collect the few pearls among the dozens of bad C++ books that are released every year. Unlike many other programming languages, which are often picked up on the go from tutorials found on the Internet, few are able to quickly pick up C++ without studying a good C++ book...

^ can't post this often enough
 
7:54 AM
I find it somewhat amazing that the C++ book question is the only book question that survived the deletion audit from a few months back.
 
We probably protested too much. Yay for Internet mobs.
 
All the others were either deleted, locked, or moved to tag-wiki.
@sbi did make a very strong case though. Gotta give that to him.
 
I got a book a while back, like 7 years ago. Didn't read it for 2 years, picked it up 5 years ago, learned a fair amount of C++, and then later looked online to see that it had ratings of like 2 stars on amazon
 
Don't trust amazon. The Bullschildt book has very good reviews on amazon. And the Stroustrup swan book only has 3 stars on amazon.de
^ terrible book with 4 stars
^ very nice book with 3 stars
 
Who better to know principles and practices of C++ than one of the creators (the only creator?) himself
 
7:59 AM
C++ as we know it today was created by dozens, if not hundreds of people.
 
true
 
But Stroustrup is the original inventor and implementor, of course.
 
I think it would be awesome to be on the standard commitee
 

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