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6:00 PM
Normally, you use return; to break out of void functions early. Writing it at the end of the function is simply not idiomatic. I have been programming for over 20 years now and have never seen it before.
 
Ell
@JimNorton it is not common, and not really needed?
 
Boobs do not belong in strings. You were thinking of a different part of the female body. — FredOverflow 10 secs ago
 
@FredOverflow Oh I know. I've been programming for a long time as well, just not C++. And I've seen it used many times. Just wondering what you all had to say on it.
I know it's probably about pedantry...
 
its weird. Whats worse IMO is return statements being used like functions
 
Nobody explicitly returns void (unless needed), just as nobody explicitly casts function calls to void (unless needed).
 
6:03 PM
return(object); // bleh!
 
(void)printf("hello world!\n");   // <--- redundant cast, just don't do it!
@vedosity On the other hand, I prefer to always put parenthesis around the sizeof operand, even if it's not required: sizeof(42).
 
Ell
if I want to rotate a vector about an axis, would one typically use a matrix for that? I'm using java (gasp!) but this is just a general question. I have no clue when it comes to 3d maths and whatnot
 
Well, isn't return a function? It modifies the stack.
 
no, it doesn't add to the stack except for the return value
I mean, it doesn't add to the backtrace
 
@JimNorton If return was a function, you could never actually return, because you would have to return from the return function first, but that would need to return from another return function etc.
 
6:06 PM
@FredOverflow So it really is just for the compiler to know when to add code to do the stack stuff?
 
So every return would eventually cause a stack overflow.
@JimNorton Yes. There is no return function.
 
@FredOverflow I do that too, I didn't know you couldn't until several months ago. But sizeof is much more of a function (but more like a constexpr one) than return is
 
And what would the parameter type of the sizeof function be if I can pass types? :)
 
oh shoot
haha, didn't think of that one
 
return is a function in Haskell. :v
 
6:08 PM
can you do sizeof... Args though?
 
Yes.
Well, dunno if without parens.
 
thats what I mean
 
But sizeof...(Args) s fine.
 
@CatPlusPlus Right, a function of type Monad m => a -> m a according to you :)
 
@FredOverflow Yes, the unit.
Monad m => a -> m a
 
6:09 PM
Haven't seen Cicada on for some time..
 
He was on earlier this morning
 
He?
 
They.
 
Yeah, she
 
6:10 PM
it
*it
 
Oh. Well how was I suppose to know? :P
 
But we don't talk about gender in this room.
 
avatar
 
avatars can lie!
 
Ell
I don't know why o.O
 
6:10 PM
Also, she was offended by porn. No guy is offended by porn.
 
You don't ask about gender in this room.
 
Hmm. True. Unless you live in utah.
 
Rule number one of Lounge<C++> .... :-)
 
@CatPlusPlus I remember being very confused about the return function in monadic code. Why on earth did they call it return?!?
 
@Ell because gender means no more than how tall you are on the internet. Nobody cares, and lots of people lie anyway.
 
6:11 PM
Nah, it's not just the mormons
 
@FredOverflow Because sometimes it kinda resembles return?
It was silly, yes.
 
@MooingDuck And this isn't a dating forum, and it doesn't matter.
 
@JimNorton Well I've never lived outside of utah so I really wouldn't know
 
Cicada was offended by porn?
Ha.
 
Ell
I agree
How can you be offended by porn?
 
6:13 PM
She's fairly...erm...robust...most of the time, from what I've seen
 
Ell
Why would what some people do in their private time offend someone?
 
@Ell How can you be offended on the Internet?
4
 
Ell
@RadekSlupik well the internet is just a medium
 
@Ell it changes how men see and thus treat women
 
6:16 PM
@RadekSlupik Ha. If you're somewhere where you'll be offended by swearing or porn or any of that, you shouldn't be on the internet :P
2
 
@MooingDuck Do you think porn is responsible for people asking boobs questions on stack overflow?
 
I'm now using Dropbox for hosting documentation. It's slow as fuck. :P
 
Ell
@MooingDuck I won't argue with that, but I don't see how you can be "offended by porn"
 
I'm never offended.
 
@FredOverflow its probably related
 
Ell
6:17 PM
I just don't understand how you can be offended by soemthing not aimed at or involving you
 
Hint: stupid people.
 
@Ell because the side effects of men watching it does affect them. (they say, I make no claims for or against the accuracy of said statement)
 
Ell
@MooingDuck so she isn't offended by porn, she is offended by the way men treat her?
 
I think thats a solid point
 
@Ell yes, and she believes that porn encourages that behavior.
 
Ell
6:19 PM
That's like saying shes offended by a sexism-inducing drug (if one were to exist)
you can't be offended by the drug, that just doesn't make sense
 
That makes about as much sense as men being offended by women reading trashy literature
 
@MooingDuck Is that recursion I see there?
 
@Ell no, she's offended that people keep using the drug
 
Ell
@MooingDuck but not the drug itsself, right?
 
@Drise not quite, but very very close
 
6:20 PM
@MooingDuck Key point here: it's the people that are problematic.
 
Ell
So shes offended by the attitude frequent porn users have
I just don't see how you can logically be offended by porn
 
@Ell as to that I can't say, I'm half speculating
 
@Ell You can get offended if something targets a group you associate yourself with. Most porn isn't exactly woman-friendly and is even degrading, I find it quite normal women are offended by that.
 
@Ell it's a problem of association. People who go on about how great porn is tend to be jerks. Combine that with a lack of understanding of how male braisn get stimulated, it's understandable
 
omg, the patent troll is back
 
6:21 PM
 
@Drise My genome would probably get blocked by a spam filter.
 
@TomW correlation does not imply causation
 
@DeadMG As a species, we are the smartest idiots on the planet.
 
I did read what I thought at the time to be a reliable source that heterosexual women's brains show no difference in stimulation between looking at attractive men and attractive women
 
lucky bastards
 
6:23 PM
lol
 
@TomW I believe it
 
from which one must conclude that what really gets women off, isn't visual
 
@TomW so not Visual C++, eh?
 
or simply that women are more flexible than men
 
Ell
I completely understand being offended by sexism (actually that is a lie, but let's assume) but I can't understand being offended by "a thing" which may cause the sexism
 
6:24 PM
or simply that those particular women happened to bewhat they were looking for
 
You could also see porn as an inspiration for your own bedroom :)
 
lol
 
Well, the definition of heterosexual is that there is nothing desirable to the individual about intimacy with the same sex, yet purely on visual stimulation the result is the same. Kind of implies that you can't rely on the judgement of a heterosexual woman to gauge the real issues behind a heterosexual man looking at pictures of women
 
@DeadMG We watch tutorials on C++ to become better programmers, why not watch porn to become better lovers? :)
2
 
@Ell the people offended are associated with the people who do degrading acts, and so they are offended by what appears to be a degrading image of that category of people in which they find themselves.
 
6:26 PM
@FredOverflow Because you've no reason to believe that either participant is actually enjoying it?
 
Not at all what I expected on my first click on SO's "chat" link.
;)
 
@BrianCain I'd love to claim this isn't typical.
 
@DeadMG How can you not enjoy having sex for money?
 
@BrianCain We're the Lounge, we do whatever we want.
 
@BrianCain You look like @MooingDuck! You confuse me!
 
6:27 PM
Indeed.
 
@FredOverflow #1: It doesn't pay well enough at all to actually support you.
 
I've never seen this particular topic before, but it's rarely about C++
 
Ell
@MooingDuck I'm confused. But I get that I have to put up with other people and I'm too tired to try any more :L
 
#2: you're objectified way more than the women involved
 
@Ell If I make a youtube video that shows hundreds of people from the UK saying stupid things and talk about how stupid people in the UK are compared to US, you'd find the video offensive. (Or maybe not, but hopefully you see the parallel)
 
6:27 PM
#3: It's actually physically very difficult to perform at the required rate and on demand.
 
@DeadMG I wouldn't know, but if it doesn't pay enough, then why are people doing it if it's not even fun?
@DeadMG What about Viagra?
 
why do you think? Because they're desperate or they thought it would be fun.
 
some people just like to be offended. anything will do.
 
@Drise say what? He's a big yellow spiral, I'm a duck
 
@MooingDuck It's yellow blobish things. At first glance, it threw me off.
 
6:28 PM
I'm assuming we got here because someone changed the channel topic to include the proposal for the new C++ operator?
 
Ell
@MooingDuck I suppose I see the parralel. But I think porn differs because the it is specifically a certain act. If you called the video "People in the UK saying stupid things" then i don't think it should be offensive to anyone
 
@FredOverflow Probably too expensive.
 
@FredOverflow I've heard viagra is borderline painful. It basically induces priapism, which in any other context is a medical emergency
 
@BrianCain We are never on topic.
 
@Drise We are never off topic.
 
6:29 PM
@TomW As far as I know, Viagra only lasts for a couple of hours.
 
@Ell but if it became widespread, people all over the world would begin to treat UK people as stupid, just because of a few videos.
 
lol, fair enough. Depending on whether the topic is the tags or the "room description", sounds like you might actually be on topic. :)
 
and #4, kinda leads into serious problems with any real relationship you might want.
 
@BrianCain no, most of the rest of us are always here
 
@SamDeHaan You make a good point.
 
6:30 PM
@TomW dunno. but the ability to get laid tends to offset any discomfort for most guys :P
 
@DeadMG Okay, I get it, you don't want to be a porn star. Neither do I. Let's stop discussing now, or I will never be able to enjoy porn again ;)
 
@FredOverflow You hope.
 
Well there is that. Still, priapism causes necrosis if the sensitive tissues don't get relief from the excess pressure soon enough
 
guys will go through just about anything to get their wangs wet. it's hard wired into them or something.
 
@FredOverflow I'm simply making the point that assuming that either of them is actually enjoying what they're doing is really completely unwarranted.
 
6:31 PM
So, does anyone know if the g++ libstdc++ STL changes to support C++11 are switched by the -std=c++0x toggle?
 
@cHao I wouldn't want to go through a wall...
 
@Drise coward :D
 
@TomW IF you have an erection lasting more than 4 hours go see a doctor...,. Typical Viagra disclaimer.
 
I have seen tables which indicate which g++ releases include which C++11 features, but not quite the same for libstdc++.
 
@cHao If you want to get your wang wet so badly, why don't you simply take a shower?
 
6:32 PM
@Drise if you knew there was a girl on the other side ready to give you the best lay of your life...and there were no ay around or over....i bet you would.
 
@MooingDuck Not with my wang out man. That collision sounds painful.
 
Ell
@cHao "Get their wangs wet"? :L
 
@cHao What other side?
 
@cHao I'm not saying there is a hole in the wall. Imagine cinder blocks.
 
the other side of the wall.
 
6:33 PM
@BrianCain yes, but note that they are actually hidden behind some preprocessor guard, it's that one that's defined based on -std=c++0x I think
 
@BrianCain I don't know about libstdc++, I use libc++
 
@cHao Oh, I thought other side of the river, and then you would have to get your wang wet in the river.
 
@Drise i figured that's what you meant. and yeah, at the very least you'd be scrounging for a pickaxe.
 
Ell
Or simply walk around the wall
 
6:34 PM
in fairness, my preference is women or womens having a really great time - or pretending to. So I figure I'm probably not a massive chauvinist.
 
@Ell infinitely desnse/tall/wide/etc
 
@Ell Do you really think your brain is able to perform A* path finding when all blood has gone south?
5
 
@FredOverflow A*?
 
heh
 
@Drise search algorithm
 
6:35 PM
 
@Drise The most widely used heuristic path finding algorithm in the world.
 
@TomW You have sex with womens? That must be at least four, right?
 
@FredOverflow it's a plural. I'll leave my explanation at that.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Fair enough. Never heard of it though. Never needed path finding.
 
Now the boobs question has been removed.
 
6:36 PM
@JimNorton sad
 
@TomW Women is already the plural of woman.
 
ah, Gotcha. Well yeah, believe what you like ;)
 
@JimNorton Breast cancer?
 
lol
 
@MooingDuck That's bull.
 
6:37 PM
@TomW I believe that you enjoy sex with 4 or more female humans. Which sounds totally reasonable.
 
@JimNorton my answer and rep are missing as well :(
 
@MooingDuck double bull. We should go rage on Meta.
 
We should ask a wang question and see if it also gets removed. Like, can we have .|. operator or something.
 
@Drise My example was less sexist! It had a cat!
 
@FredOverflow 8==D
 
6:38 PM
@FredOverflow Wang path finding using A*.
 
@FredOverflow sex of 4 or more female humans.
the implication is subtly different :(
 
I don't get it, what is sex of 4 or more female humans?
 
well, the difference is that in the latter, I am not necessarily involved. 'Of' as opposed to 'With'
 
@MooingDuck Awww, that sucks...
 
What happens if new fails with exceptions disabled (on MSVC)?
 
6:39 PM
@vedosity That's easy:
double d = 8;
if (8==D) puts("8==D");
 
Ah, I was answering your question though
 
@EtiennedeMartel I have no idea. Does it automatically call the nothrow version?
 
@TomW Oh. Well, I never had sex with 4 women either :(
 
@EtiennedeMartel it returns NULL
 
@Abyx sure?
@EtiennedeMartel I know most of the standard library just crashes and fails miserably.
 
6:42 PM
@MooingDuck sorta. just look at new.c
 
@Abyx Not that I disbelieve you, but do you have a source? My coworkers are going to nitpick the shit out of me if I don't get proof.
 
@KillianDS, but I could've sworn I did a std::map::at() without -std=c++0x.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Uh, just test it.
 
ok... lemme check it...
 
(on g++ 4.3.4) I'll double check
 
6:43 PM
Sssshhhh.
 
if you're talking about one specific implementation, then just test it.
 
Yo, dawgs. Daisy, as well.
 
Don't disable exceptions, duh.
 
@CatPlusPlus Video games and shit.
 
6:45 PM
Still stupid.
 
Why disable exceptions?
 
@EtiennedeMartel Well, nothing nice. Setting it to NULL would be the next best thing. But why disable them? You need to get a chance to free memory up and shit.
 
What is the overhead for exceptions that never get thrown, anyways?
 
hm.. sorry, I was wrong
 
@BrianCain you appear to be right, I guess they only hide the parts that really need/use c++11 features (or forgot that one). I tested it with 4.7
 
6:47 PM
there is really interesting code, it seems there will be infinite loop o_O
 
@vedosity On a good compiler, zero.
 
Exactly, so why disable them?
 
Not all compilers are good.
Maybe it's also architecture dependent, dunno.
 
@KillianDS I guess I'd hope to find out which features I can capitalize at which releases, without having to scour release notes. Maybe I'll see if I can find that info somewhere on gnu.org
 
Video games? I'm not sure I understand the implications of it being a video game. Surely the overhead isn't that much
 
6:49 PM
@vedosity the game industry is paranoid when it comes to performance
 
@vedosity, yes, libc++ is pretty awesome but I prefer libstdc++'s ubiquity. I'm sure it's bound to change in the coming years.
 
I woudnt be surprised a brain is capable of doing an A* Path finding algorithm.
 
@vedosity it adds a lot of code. In a good compiler that code is separate and so only affects load time, but disabling instructions makes poor compilers go faster, and in all cases makes the code a lot smaller.
 
For starts a brain is capabale of calculating a collition probabilitya based on distance and speed.
 
@BrianCain I couldn't get libstdc++ to work... I think libc++ is the only one on my platform that supports C++11. I mean, I could compile a newer version of libstdc++ but I'm just too damn lazy
On another note, I tried replacing the version of the libc++ binaries with my own version, and I couldn't start my computer
 
6:54 PM
Build Caretaking is a job avoided by most programmers , AFAIK.
 
I actually build a lot of stuff myself. I like the cutting edge (and the buggy). I should really run gentoo on my laptop or something
 
I should learn Ant and Maven sometime.
 
Maven is a pig
 
@FredOverflow Yes and no. What it mostly is, is memory- (or at least address-space) hungry. On a 64-bit system, it's unlikely to matter. On a 32-bit system, it can but doesn't necessarily. On a smaller system, it's generally untenable.
 
so is Hadoop
 
6:56 PM
Maven only has one error message: Fuck You
 
I've never used Maven... Is it a java thing?
 
yeah
I've only attempted to use it to build a Jenkins plugin
Jenkins itself is great
its entire ecosystem however is a pile of garbage
 
Jenkins is... a build system? right? or am I way off
I've heard of it
 
Ell
how can a GC be faster than malloc/free? Is it just because it re-uses memory?
 
6:59 PM
yeah Jenkins is a continuous integration server
build system narrows it a little
 
it provides a nice web front-end for doing basically all deployment related jobs
 

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