« first day (643 days earlier)      last day (4320 days later) » 

8:00 AM
Anyone can. It costs $1500 or something, and you get to vote from the third meeting on.
 
¬_¬ did you not just link to a page FULL of book recomendations?
 
Yes, I just wanted to underline the fact that amazon reviews suck.
 
@FredOverflow if you are going to base a buy on a rating from 1 person you deserve to get the worst book possible imho
 
I just don't understand why nobody else wrote a review for the swan book.
 
I guess one thing about book reviews is that people rate it on how well they understood it, and not all people learn the same way?
 
8:02 AM
It's kinda like how votes work on SO. More votes doesn't always mean better content.
 
@FredOverflow it has 13 reviews (and 4.7 rating) on the .co.uk version and 40 reviews (and 4.2 rating) on the .com
 
@KillianDS nice
 
13 reviews isn't a very large sample size
 
@Mysticial I think that is his point ¬_¬
 
@vedosity Additionally, you rate a book when you just read it. In programming if a book is completely wrong, but it explains everything well, it will give a good impression. Not that many people will actually rerate it if they discover a few years later that it actually taught all the wrong things.
 
8:07 AM
Ah, good point
so what is this chkdsk blog thing?
 
he he he, some one the Javascript room made a funny
in JavaScript, 2 days ago, by rlemon
99 little bugs in the code, 99 little bugs. Take one down, fix the bug, compile and build the project, pass it to QA, 101 little bugs in the code.
 
@vedosity It's probably supposed to be funny.
@thecoshman My first intuition when I saw "101 bugs" was "5 bugs". Am I sick? :)
 
@vedosity Hadn't seen that one. :)
 
@FredOverflow there are 10 answers to that
 
8:13 AM
@thecoshman Sounds about right
 
@Xeo Someone came for the live chkdsk blog. You better fulfill your promise. :)
 
Xeo
Can't, playing mahjong
95%
 
@FredOverflow uh.. I don't use windows, I guess I don't get it
 
Code goes in, program comes out.
Can't explain that.
3
 
In Reference Style - All Levels , shouldn't C++ - The Complete Reference be included? — IntermediateHacker Apr 15 at 15:40
Why, god, why?
@DomagojPandža The explanation is probably "compiler".
 
8:18 AM
Ah, bullschildt, I get it :)
 
hay, @Dom web site? :P
 
template <class T>
struct one_of<T,T>
template looks angry
 
@thecoshman kyrostat.com First one who figures out the login gets free cookies. :P
 
@DomagojPandža no open auth?
 
8:22 AM
Hint: It's a stub. :Đ
 
...what the hell is wrong with that D? Am I seeing things here?
 
for now, you should have it log what people enter :P
 
What is <T,T> doing at the end of line 2? This is not Java or C#.
What you probably want is template<typename T, U> struct one_of;
 
its a template specialization
 
8:25 AM
yeah I have the... whatever the right term for it is... base template? Hmm... that would be good to know... Anyways, its earlier in the code
but its working :D
 
primary template
What exactly does the error message say?
 
no error message anymore
 
What was it, and how did you fix it?
 
template <class T, class Head, class... Tail>
struct one_of: one_of<T, Tail...>
{};

template <class T, class U>
struct one_of<T, U>
{};

template <class T>
struct one_of<T, T>
{
    using type = T;
};

template <class T, class Head, class... Tail>
struct one_of<T, T, Head, Tail...>
{
    using type = T;
};
 
@Mysticial How about the C book list?
 
8:28 AM
@FredOverflow Hmm... seems insignificant for me to not notice. :P
 
I didn't have the third specialization, so when the first argument matched the last argument, it would still trigger SFINAE
 
can I get some edit acceptance on this please
 
@vedosity Template specialization, SFINAE... is there anything in C++ templates that D didn't steal? :)
 
@FredOverflow part of the tragedy of the commons?
 
D. No.
 
8:30 AM
The tragedy of the commons is a dilemma arising from the situation in which multiple individuals, acting independently and rationally consulting their own self-interest, will ultimately deplete a shared limited resource, even when it is clear that it is not in anyone's long-term interest for this to happen. This dilemma was described in an influential article titled "The Tragedy of the Commons", written by ecologist Garrett Hardin and first published in the journal Science in 1968. Theories and examples Central to Hardin's article is an example (first sketched in an 1833 pamphlet by Wi...
 
@FredOverflow C (and C++) source compatibility? ;)
 
I love messing with C++... I don't know why, something about how not straightforward it is to use templates to do really cool things I guess...
Is it wrong that D built on ideas from C++? is that not like C++ is built on C? (except of course, that D isn't backwards compatible with C++...)
 
@vedosity By that reasoning, D should've been called C++++. :P
 
@vedosity I can't see why it'd be wrong.
 
well gosh dangit, I want my variable incremented before I get it. I demand a ++C.
 
8:36 AM
It might or might not result in a better language, but it's going to be a dark day when it becomes "wrong" to design a programming language which is inspired by another
 
@jalf Since when are C++ templates source compatible with C? :)
 
Xeo
finished
 
@Mysticial How often do we have to go over this? C++++ does not compile, because C++ is an rvalue, but the second ++ needs an lvalue.
 
@FredOverflow I meant the other way around. The C++ language is designed so that C files can be included
Or C files can be compiled as C++ (most of the time)
 
@FredOverflow Can it be overloaded to work? If C is not a POD type. :P
 
8:38 AM
@FredOverflow std::next(C, 2)
 
Why didn't Stroustrup go 100% C compatible?
 
Xeo
great, the directory I hoped to repair is gone anyways
 
@Mysticial It would work if C were of class type with postfix operator++ implemented as a member function. Which would be very unusual.
 
Xeo
meaning I need to redownload the damn game
 
@FredOverflow Well, he wanted a stronger type system, which is inevitably going to break C code which relies on the weaker one
 
8:40 AM
Do hardcore C programmers write int *p = malloc(100); or do they write int *p = (int*)malloc(100);?
 
I'm not sure what other direct conflicts there were between C compatibility and the other design goals for C++. I'm sure some breakage could've been avoided, but not all of it
 
Because I always use the first form without the cast, and that is already illegal in C++.
 
@FredOverflow I don't consider myself hardcore, but I go with the cast.
For the sole reason that it will compile in both C and C++.
 
Someday someone should make a language named c++ + ++c that just does random stuff no matter what you type
10
 
@FredOverflow most C programmer I've heard from prefer the version without the cast
 
8:41 AM
So C++'s almost compatibility with C is not very useful in my opinion.
 
So I'm possibly alienating both sides, but who cares...
 
shoot, I think I got that code snippet right... or is it ++c + c++
 
@vedosity Doesn't matter, both are UB.
 
@FredOverflow I think it was a huge deal
 
Sure, it was useful to lure C programmers into C++ land :)
 
Xeo
8:42 AM
So, anybody wanna change the room topic?
 
Is chkdsk complete?
 
@jalf omitting the cast is correct; it protects you if you fail to #include <string.h>
 
@FredOverflow yup
 
@vedosity there is already an esoteric language, in which instructions are executed in a random order. you can give some rules to thie, such as line 2 can only be done once line 1 has executed
 
Xeo
8:42 AM
@FredOverflow aye
 
@ecatmur malloc is in <string.h>? I thought it was in <stdlib.h>?
 
No, c++ + ++c should be a programming language that doesn't just do random calculations, but literally orders pizza on some systems
 
@vedosity No, that's defined behavior.
 
@FredOverflow oops, yeah, thinking of memcpy.
 
@vedosity I'm gonna eat Pizza in 3 hours, and I don't need a new programming language for that :)
@ecatmur Oh yeah, that's totally stupid that memcpy is in <string.h>.
 
8:44 AM
@Mysticial Well, just a possibility, referencing something someone said a couple days ago in this room
not sure if it was anyone here. Man that was a bad day, I was asking if i = std::advance(i, 4) is defined behavior...
 
wtf? I just discovered .
Java can be run on embedded systems?
 
Is the 'pimp' idiom the one where 'money==power'? — Aesthete 2 mins ago
 
@vedosity I think Lawrence Crowl came up with UB ordering Anchovies Pizza. At least he's the first I've heard it from, probably here:
 
@vedosity I say that often.
 
I think it was you, R.
 
8:46 AM
@Mysticial yeah. That's what the whole oracle vs google thing is about though - they're not using java-me, which is what oracle want. Loads of phones since ~2000 have been able to run "midlets"
 
std::advance(i, 4) returns void, btw. Like I said, bad day.
 
Stephan T. Lavavej once said that undefined behavior can send an email to your boss, saying you quit :)
 
@Flexo interesting
 
I starting developing on android recently, I like it
 
@Mysticial of course, it can be run where you can write a VM
 
8:47 AM
better than iOS IMO
 
some ARM chips have a mode to help run Java
 
@Flexo Oh... so it takes hardware support to be able to handle Java... haha
 
and blu-ray devices all use Java of some form
 
I've always thought Java as being a little to heavy-weight for embedded.
A little too heavy-weight for even my poor laptop at the time.
 
30
A: The Definitive C Book Guide and List

Dana RobinsonI'd like to make an anti-recommendation. Under no circumstances should you read any books by Herbert Schildt. In particular, you should stay away from C: The Complete Reference.

^ yay :)
 
8:50 AM
Hahaha, just how bad is he?
 
fucking flash (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
 
Damnit Qt, do you even know what Unicode means?
 
@vedosity Search this chat
It has been said that the price difference between the C89 standard (approx $130) and "The Annotated C Standard" (approx $30) reflects the added value of the annotations. — Bart van Ingen Schenau Nov 1 '10 at 20:29
4
 
Found this gem in their documentation: ". input is first decoded from percent encoding, then converted from UTF-8 to unicode."
 
I love that quote
 
8:52 AM
I guess I understand what they're trying to say, but.... ugh
 
Scott Meyers' Overview of the New C++ (C++11) is 364 pages? Why doesn't he make that into a book?
 
...maybe I don't know what unicode means, but isn't UTF-8 an encoding for unicode already?
is that what you're pointing out?
Whats the advantage of buying and reading the ISO (or whatever organization) C++11 Standard over reading the final draft?
*free final draft, that is
 
Being rich.
 
@vedosity Yes, exactly :)
 
8:58 AM
lol Qt documentation.
 
Oh good, I get it :) encoding and localization scares me
 
It's so helpless.
The very worst doc I've seen so far is Boost Graph Library's.
 
After having to write a UI theming library for the mac and have to worry about every detail of the documentation, I really, really hate Apple's documentation
on appkit
in fact, I hate apple. They made my life so difficult. Why couldn't they just not be the stubborn type and let me customize the UI? You can't run a space simulator with standard GUI, that would just suck. A lot.
 
Because they're best at UIs, despite coming up with nonsense like global menu.
Or something.
 
^ this
 
9:04 AM
@Cicada Try Boost Meta State Machine :)
Good morning, by the way
 
Hm. Its 3AM where I live. Think I should go to bed? Nah...
 
@vedosity You give money to the people who created C++11.
Also, there are already newer drafts that appeared after C++11 was complete.
 
That makes cents
 
@vedosity I want it
 
hehe, seriously though, it makes sense, I might buy it just because of that... probably not for $130 dollars or however much it costs though
 
9:10 AM
@vedosity They ought to put up fund raising/donation pages. Nah. In fact, the committee is likely funded for the largest part by the big corporation compiler vendors that sit on it. I don't think they need our donations.
@Cicada BGL docs are pretty bad, yeah. Though it is not uncommon for 'TMP' libraries. The best docs in this respect I are of the Spirit library (which is quite an achievement since Boost Spirit is both deep and wide.)
 
I'm loving using using for type aliases... it makes so much more sense than typedef IMO
yeah, boost spirit is intimidating even with the great documents... but so are some of the other libraries in boost
I have some friends that will not use anything that uses boost...
 
@FredOverflow And he should know! He is entitled to implement part of the undefined behaviour in the standard library on a popular (? - or so the puppy says) platform
@vedosity Really. I've been sceptic myself. But that was at the time when it was hard to find a compiler that wouldn't choke on it.
 
it doesn't quite... boost my spirits.. to read boost spirit documentation
gosh I need to go to bed
 
I'd reverse it these days: I would think twice before doing C++ when Boost is out of the question.
 
I'm using ASIO for a simple RPC library that I finished in like, 2 days. The thing takes forever to compile, I'd rewrite it to use just sockets just to get rid of the build times
 
9:15 AM
@vedosity Hehe. I like it (see top users in )
 
-3
A: The Definitive C++ Book Guide and List

Aviad RozenhekI suggest the free C++ FQA http://yosefk.com/c++fqa/ its sort of a "hater's guide to c++", but its really informative as it shows you a lot of things that are impractical or don't work well in C++ that you might otherwise attempt.

lol FQA
 
-3 :) I've read it... I do some things anyway :P
So anything interesting coming out past C++11?
 
also modules
 
Ah yeah I saw something about modules being on the TR for C++11 or something
 
9:25 AM
You keep calling the names for things "meaningless" but they actually have good, useful names. "pimpl" is short for "pointer to implementation" which describes exactly how the idiom works. "RAII" means "Resource Acquisition Is Initialization" which I guess might be a little confusing at first, but it is pretty clear and definitely not "meaningless". — SoapBox Jul 5 '10 at 12:21
^ Dang, I was about to say that!
@vedosity A function that lets you view the members of an object as a tuple. This would greatly simplify operator== and operator< overloading, among other things.
 
@jalf Ah, I failed to press enter on exactly those words
@FredOverflow that would be as much a function as declval (or sizeof) then.
 
Yes, some sort of compile time construct.
 
@FredOverflow That would be amazing!
 
If any one's interested in a free flag, here's one of the better ones I've seen:
0
A: cakephp beforesave question

suuanswer..answer..answer...answer...answer...answeransweransweransweransweransweransweransweransweransweransweransweransweransweransweransweransweransweransweransweransweransweransweransweransweransweransweransweransweransweransweransweransweransweransweransweransweransweransweransweransweransweran...

 
@FredOverflow you could do some interesting stuff with that concerning RDBMS...
 
9:32 AM
@FredOverflow that's coming? :o
 
Well, it's just a proposal, but what person in their right mind would reject that? :)
Also, Runtime-sized arrays with automatic storage duration, Proposal for Unbounded-Precision Integer Types, A Preliminary Proposal for a Static if caught my attention.
 
That would also be awesome for serializing... but probably just for IPC
 
Hm, what were Rich Pointers again?
 
@FredOverflow It seems to veer eerily close to ... 'static' reflection or something
 
ah, static if would be awesome
 
9:34 AM
lol, it seems there are two static if proposals :) One by Walter Brown, the other by Sutter/Bright/Alexandrescu
 
rich pointers..?
 
Now if you had a 'function' to get a tied tuple to (all) members of a struct, and also a corresponding tuple with string representations of the same member names...
@vedosity I could think of garbage collection, mainly. I vaguely recall seeing the name before
 
@sehe yesyesyesyes
 
@vedosity It's just more code generation from inside the language of course
 
9:36 AM
Maybe the naked pointers got into prostitution, and now they have become rich? :)
 
@FredOverflow Oh it's pointers with associated runtime type information
 
foo %p = new (std::rich) foo;
What a funny syntax... oh, they also propose a rich_cast. I could certainly use that :)
 
eh... I'm not a big fan of the % syntax... reminds me of DOS
 
weird
 
or windows command shell
that, and std::rich?
 
9:38 AM
void %q = p;
foo %r = rich_cast<foo%>(q);
assert(type_descriptor(q) == type_descriptor(r));
@vedosity reminds me of c++/cli language extensions
 
I could see this getting rejected, but what do you guys think about adding a syntax for accessors?
like in C#, Type variable { set { m_variable = value; }, get { return m_variable } }, except not that syntax because that's C# :P
 
I'd like that. I've been wondering about the potential for an operator. like Python's descriptors.
 
kinda like this: ideone.com/Qw2Uf
except more flexible.
 
user image
4
^ What a strange mix of suggestions...
 
lol
 
Xeo
9:43 AM
@FredOverflow Xeo me; Xeo% rich_me = rich_cast<Xeo&>(&me);
 
brainfart on my part
 
Xeo
pff
undefined rich behaviour
Because, you know, you can never understand the rich :)
 
@ecatmur I read somewhere that stroustrup frowns on this idea
besides, what would you pass to it? Whatever you pass to it, it better be a compile-time constant, I don't want no strings being passed to operator. . Although, that would make a cool key-value properties system
 
@FredOverflow You know... you should not sign in to youtube when you browse porn. They use historical data to generate personalized suggestions
 
Ell
@vedosity that's pretty kewl
 
9:49 AM
@sehe When you browse funny videos, sooner or later you get drained in animal mating videos.
 
@FredOverflow Really? I think that's personalized. I always get vids of street fighting and car crashes. Oh, and 'FAIL' compilations of course
 
@sehe I think I got from puking cats to mating dogs or something :)
 
makes sense
 
I always browse for puking cats when I'm bored
 
9:51 AM
Boredom is the worst.
 
Don't let it happen
 
So awesome :) And don't worry, he doesn't puke.
 
@Eli Thanks :) An implementation for accessors has been on my mind a lot lately... but that doesn't let you do things like person.name += " Lastname"; because the compiler doesn't know to implicitly convert to the` std::string` just to use its function.. You couldn't do person.name.size() either. Oh well :(
nah, what would be really cool is using auto variables in classes with inline initialization
 
Worst ^
@FredOverflow Kinda silly without sound :)
 
then I could do something like auto name = db::column<std::string>(this, "name");, inherit from a db::table class, and then whenever I call person.name = something; it would update a value on a database
 
9:58 AM
Yay. Let's all update values on the database. Rockstar life!
 
@vedosity It would be more like a RHS operator. So person.name calls decltype(Person::name)::operator.(). Or something like that.
 
Ell
couldnt you have an attribute class? then you just override the cast operator and assignment operator
 
meh. It's clearly Friday
 

« first day (643 days earlier)      last day (4320 days later) »