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21:00
@Cicada Yeah, but the previous generation have just had price drops because they're no longer top card.
@Cicada Just configure the rest of the system first and then spent all the money you've got left on GPU. If you're a gamer, you can never get enough GPU power.
@sehe Yeah, the silencing was done professionally, but it didn't justify the very high price.
@sehe Some Cray supercomputer... don't know which one.. but can I haz?
@ManofOneWay It's not really a question of choice. You're talking hundreds of pages of documentation. Not to mention that I am a member of the digital generation- I don't know what it's like to not be able to ask Wikipedia for anything I need.
Crays stopped being cool around 2005.
21:00
@FredOverflow I'm not a hardcore gamer either. I enjoy playing games. Quite a lot. But not as much as programming, really.
@CatPlusPlus Still cool to me though.
@Cicada You can also program GPUs these days, you know...
@DeadMG Oh, yes, absolutely.
@FredOverflow That's what I do at work... (on fucking expensive cards!)
@ManofOneWay Oh, and all the money, too...
I'm a total hardcore gamer. Today, I solved AisleRot solitaire in under 4 minutes :)
21:01
@FredOverflow You work for Nvidia or ATi?
It's a specialised hardware, therefore not relevant to my interests.
@Cicada what sort of problems you solving?
Also it's Cray-2.
@Cicada Sounds fun! What kind of work is that?
I've been thinking of getting a Hackintosh system. But I don't look forward to all the tweaking and trial and error etc.
21:02
@JimNorton Erm... just because I've heard about the possibility to program GPUs doesn't mean I work at a GPU manufacturing company. GPU programming isn't exactly black art or something :)
@DeadMG We've all had useless exams, unfortunately you got to take shit sometimes
@StackedCrooked What is Hackintosh? A Macintosh with Windows installed?
@FredOverflow Nope the opposite :)
No, Mac on non-Apple hardware.
@FredOverflow True. Still cool to me though.
21:03
@ManofOneWay I have been. For seventeen years. It's time for it to stop.
Waste of time and effort.
@StackedCrooked Why don't you just get yourself a mac instead?
@Cicada What do you do Cicada?
Why on Earth would you want OSX, when there's Linux or Windows, that don't have gazillion problems related to the OS running on non-Apple hardware.
The reason why I want hackintosh is because it allows me to independently upgrade the hardware components (esp monitor).
@ManofOneWay I have an iMac, and I find it frustrating that the monitor is not independent of the hardware.
21:04
Yeah, but why OSX.
It's not worth the effort.
@DeadMG Are talking about elementary school? That was smooth sailing
@ManofOneWay I bought a mac. I recommend never ever buying a mac to everyone who sees me with it now.
I'm impressed by people with the skills to program highly complex graphics pipeline shading etc in GPU's.
If you're going to pirate an OS, at least pick a working one.
2
@ManofOneWay For some people, maybe.
21:05
@CatPlusPlus have ALL the technology
A University degree doesn't mean that you've learned anything useful. But it demonstrates to your potential employers that you have the ability to bite through some tough stuff, no matter how pointless it may seem.
2
for some people it's an end in itself
(You can't legally run OSX on non-Apple hardware.)
@CatPlusPlus OS X combines the best of Unix and Window (GUI) worlds IMO.
I work for a physicist (it's an internship I started last year, but they hired me this year again). I develop an application that simulates the folding of human chromosomes in the cells. Basically I rewrote the original app that was in pure C and multiplied its speed by around 100.
8
21:05
@StackedCrooked It just sounds like a pain in the ass, you should get Ubuntu instead =)
@StackedCrooked No.
the point is, I have a better way of doing things, and I'm not going to go back to shitting on myself for the amusement of my university.
@Cicada sounds awesome
@StackedCrooked except it won't run most games
@Cicada Sweet... sounds like a lot of fun work.
21:06
@CatPlusPlus !No.
@FredOverflow That you have the ability to massively waste your time because someone else said you should and can't critically think for yourself?
@FredOverflow Good point Fred
@Cicada ugh, physicists. Another word for 'dinosaur'. And I should know, I am one - by qualification at least
@DeadMG yes, employers want to be certain you do what your told no matter how irritating
@MooingDuck I don't mind.
21:06
No, dinosaurs are cool.
It's fun but the technology is still very new - for example today, I migrated everything to work on CUDA 5, so finally I can compile separately every object file.
There was no linker before CUDA 5
Dinos are cool fuel for rocket scientists
And having to #include everything in the same compilation unit is pure pain
@StackedCrooked agreed. The best silent PC I run is ooold now and was very cheap:
@DeadMG Biting through boring stuff is probably 90% of almost every normal job, including programming jobs. Normally you can't say "This project sounds boring to me, can I do something else?" to your boss.
2
@sehe I can see it's ooold :)
Wow, they upgraded their compilation model from a terribly obsolete one to a completely obsolete one?
@TomW Yeah, the original program was terrible. I mean, it worked and everything, but it's just a huge pile of junk. That works.
Progress.
@FredOverflow That is sooooo true....
21:08
@FredOverflow Right. But there's a difference between "Boring shit that has to be done" and "Boring shit that does not have to be done at all, and is a giant waste of time (and my employer's money)"
@CatPlusPlus It works with LLVM now.
@FredOverflow Unless you ARE the boss
@Cicada It smells of C++ and elderberries.
@JimNorton But not when you are NOT! :p
@CatPlusPlus Unfortunately yes. CUDA's great but sometimes it just feels like an awful mix of both very high and very low level.
21:09
@StackedCrooked there, fixed the image
I still run my primary web/mail servers on there, also primary backups for repositories and the 'always on' headend
@StackedCrooked It's worst when you're NAND.
@sehe What is it?
@Cicada I got into progamming through attempting to rewrite an Ising model (supplied in horrible fortran) in C# - basically because I'd picked up a book on it, had lost interest in pure science, and wanted a training exercise
It was a disaster. Not least because C# is the WRONG language for simulation
So then you switched to Simula? ;)
@StackedCrooked It was a fanless AMD geode system, 60Gb harddisk and 512 Mb SDRAM :)
21:10
Indeed :) Although honestly C++ is just wrong for CUDA
I think the answers for this question are all wrong, and the problem is caused by MSVC's lack of two-phase whatchamacallit, am I right?
I don't think there's a language that correctly handles such a degree of parallelism
@sehe Fanless would be awesome.
Using the heat to generate power for a cooling unit and let it the heat and cold cancel each other out.
@MooingDuck wrong implementation for 2phase name resolution
@MooingDuck Nope. Completely wrong.
pretty sure that the behaviour in the question is totally Standard.
21:11
Alright, that means I've completely misunderstood 2phrase name resolution then
@MooingDuck 2 phase name resolution only applies when you're, like, resolving a name.
@StackedCrooked My media center is Fanless, but it cost a lot. Less than 'ikbenstil', but still formidable (Win7 on i7 2600 with 4Gb and 64Gb SSD)
if you never ask for the name, it is never resolved.
@DeadMG I thought when it instantiated cat<T> it should instantiate all member functions.
@StackedCrooked TRUE
21:13
@MooingDuck Nope.
@JimNorton TRUE
@StackedCrooked In relation to that^ media center, I'd agree: next time, I'm building my own system like I built my workstation. It'll probably have 128Gb SSD and (at least) 16Gb RAM
@DeadMG can you give an example of what "resolving a name" is?
@StackedCrooked Infinite motion!
@sehe I'm thinking of getting a workstation as my next PC.
21:14
@Cicada have you any experience in functional languages? My understanding - and I've tried and failed to understand F# and Haskell in any detail - is that they can be made inherently parallel
@Cicada Let me prove them skeptics wrong. Willpower over science!
@MooingDuck IIRC, for 2 phase lookup, you have to use an unqualified name inside an instantiated function.
then 2 phase kicks in to resolve that name.
@StackedCrooked oh I use the word 'workstation' informally there. Just a power PC. But silent!
@Cicada If you're not sure what language is the best fit for your problem, just use Haskell.
Whether or not they're capable of compiling to anything even remotely efficient, I have no idea
21:14
@TomW Yes. In theory
They're just horribly bad at mapping to CPUs
@MooingDuck the point is, names should not get resolved at template declaration. This is also why, sometimes, you'll have to add semantic hints (template/typename qualifications) to identifiers, because the compiler can't always know what the names are (members, templates or types)
@sehe There is no formal definition AFAIK :)
1 min ago, by StackedCrooked
@sehe I'm thinking of getting a workstation as my next PC.
^ then what does that mean?
@sehe You said it. The magic word.
@sehe A powerful PC.
21:16
@Cicada I know. And it wasn't inane, either
@StackedCrooked k we agree on the definition then
Also fuck you chip manufacturers, stop fucking mapping $ to €
Like 299$ is 299€. No. Fucking. Way.
@Cicada Don't forget shipping costs in that, and IIRC, the US doesn't have much in the way of sales tax compared to European countries.
@Cicada By overseas. Kill more fuel. But at less cost
@Cicada Yeah. I wonder if they expect us to not notice that there is a difference?
Even digital downloads are like that so shipping doesn't always matter
21:17
Oh well
At least we have a decent healthcare system
@Cicada .. still
@sehe With my 100Mb/s connection, I download huge rams per second!
600W power should be enough?
21:22
@Cicada What's the rest of the specs?
No idea how to calculate how much I need \ o /
@sehe right, I understand that, but his class was instantiated, but not all the members
IIRC power supplies are more stable the smaller the percentage of maximum load they run at
@MooingDuck I didn't have a look at the question
even good ones get a bit flaky at the top end, so overspecifying isn't a big deal
apart from money, obv
21:23
@TomW and the cooling/noise
@Mysticial i7 2600 almost certain, very likely to get a GTX 570, between 16 - 32 GB ram. Mainboard idk yet.
user1174868
Anyone mind helping me with this scheme code? There really are no good guides that I can find on this, no idea why it won't work
@Jordan I don't see it yet. Also: post on Stack Overflow?
@Cicada 600 is enough
user1174868
(define (lowest4 x y z c)
(if
(and(and(< x y)(< x z))(< x c))
x
(and(and(< y x)(< y z))(< y c))
y
(and(and(< z x)(< z y))(< z c))
z
))
21:24
@sehe basically he instantiated and used a template class where if a member function had been compiled it would have gotten a compiler error, thus proving that that that function had not been instantiated with the rest of the class.
@Mysticial Thanks :)
user1174868
Should I jut post over there? I don't want to spam with simple questions
I've got a 2600K + 16GB + GTS 250 + 5 HDs, and it's only pulling 250W OC'ed to 4.2 GHz running 100% CPU.
My electricity bill is going to be oh-so-awesome
@Jordan What if some numbers are equal?
21:25
@Jordan Stack Overflow or ideone.com
user1174868
@FredOverflow I am not that far yet, sorry I get this error
user1174868
ok
user1174868
Oh
user1174868
I am banned from asking questions
21:25
@Mysticial Oh. Well that sounds fairly reasonable.
@Jordan Oh noes. Not that same old song. Get your account fixed. Read the linked article. Enjoy
user1174868
Sorry, we are no longer accepting questions from this account. See goo.gl/C1Kwu to learn more.
@Cicada Don't go any lower than 400W though. They tend to whine when pushed near the limit.
@Jordan oh, you again
@FredOverflow he has too many negative rated questions
nope, I'm thinking of someone else, nevermind
Is it not possible to create and initialize a std::vector without having to both create and copy the objects? ideone.com/RPr6V
21:27
@Jordan Sooo... read the linked page. We can't help you with that
@MooingDuck Same story
user1174868
I can't do anything
user1174868
lol
> folks
@Jordan You can mail support and post at meta.stackoverflow.com. But: show good intent first and fix your posts !
@Cicada Schaub?
user1174868
I did already
21:28
@Jordan that's strange, your questions have positive ratings...
user1174868
One of my questions was deleted, or maybe two
But he's probably loaded with deleted ones.
@Jordan Oh. What did you get?
@ManofOneWay yes, in C++11
In your respective countries (Europe only, please), how much does an Intel Core i7-2600 cost? I might as well buy it abroad if it's cheap enough.
I buy my music in UK only for example :D
21:29
@Jordan And still not allowed to ask?
@Cicada I can dig out my invoices, one moment
user1174868
Cannot ask
Le France tends to be very expensive.
this was middle of last year
user1174868
I guess I have to try and answer questions
21:30
@ManofOneWay uniform initialization requires a create+copy/move, but you can do a series of emplace_backs to avoid the copy/move
@MooingDuck How? I thought I used C++11 in that example with init list
@Cicada Le France? Seriously? I'm not French, you know, but that is weird
@Cicada (I don't listen to instructions) 237.3782 euros in America
user1174868
I can edit questions, do I get rep from editing?
well that's worthless, the invoice isn't itemised
21:31
@sehe Which part? The Le?
email archive for the receipt then....
@Cicada :)
@Mysticial Even I have 400W with my crappy hardware. She'd probably be better off with 500W.
@MooingDuck Euros? Thanks! Here it's about 270€
@FredOverflow You know, it's not dark art. You can actually calculate the power requirements
21:32
@sehe citation needed
@FredOverflow agreed. 400W is an absolute bare minimum. Though I'm not sure how much the video card will pull. So 500 at least.
@Cicada €255 in Germany.
@Cicada plus whatever shipping is
@Cicada Well, I've seen sites doing exactly that. Have a look at silentpcreview and sites like that. it's what I used to scour when I was shopping for my current workhorse
21:34
@MooingDuck shipping across western europe is not very expensive
@ManofOneWay also this: ideone.com/bargZ
@Cicada Atlantic Ocean?
user1174868
Now I remember why I stopped coming here, because I am banned and it seems impossible to get unbanned
It's possible
Whine on meta
Well, I can't fucking find any useful information on what I actually bought
@Jordan Answering questions is the best way.
user1174868
21:35
Maybe I need to pay someone bitcoins to let me answer questions with their answers
I've seen a couple people here do it.
@Cicada well, probably best to choose an other action verb
user1174868
@Mysticial I don't know anything to answer questions
the figure of £229 is coming to mind
this was august last year
user1174868
I came here to learn to program, I need to know programming to answer questions but I can't learn because I am banned lol
21:36
Usually, when you get banned, it's only because you're slightly across the threshold. So it only takes a couple upvotes to get unbanned.
@MooingDuck Thanks
@TomW So it's more or less the same price I assume, since £ is slightly over €?
I think so
@Jordan SO is not a site to learn how to program. There are books, tutorials, courses for that. SO is a site to share answers to questions that others have previously solved. It is more about the 'applied' art of programming, not learning how to program
user1174868
So I shouldn't ask simple programming questions here? Where is a good place for that?
21:38
Also, more than 1GB of GPU ram is pointless, right?
@Jordan SO is a FAQ site. If the answer might help other people, look if it already exists on SO. Otherwise, google/irc/books/teachers.
Mostly books.
@Jordan You can. But make them about specific code. Don't ask questions that simply demonstrate you don't know what you're talking about. But really, the 'beginner steps' are already asked, so a simple search should do the trick
user1174868
there isn't much scheme here
@Cicada I don't game enough to be able to answer that. :(
@Jordan Also, start by learning how to stop being a victim. "I can't learn because I'm banned" is ridiculous to say the least. You won't win over any moderator with that kind of logic. You can learn without the internet (gasp), most of us did.
user1174868
21:40
@sehe I wasn't being serious, I just thought it was a hilarious loop
user1174868
wherein the only way I can get unbanned is by answering questions that I can't answer
@Jordan Oh. It wasn't hilarious because it wasn't a loop.
@sehe I learned programming mostly from books borrowed from the library, magazines and trial&error.
user1174868
I give bad answers and get downvotes and I have to give more answers to try and get more rep
@FredOverflow Precisely
21:42
Sometimes, the trial&error would even mix with a bit of trial&success :)
user1174868
Well then what is a good scheme book? The one for my class doesn't teach the language
Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs (SICP) is a textbook published in 1984 about general computer programming concepts from MIT Press written by Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) professors Harold Abelson and Gerald Jay Sussman, with Julie Sussman. It was formerly used as the textbook of MIT introductory programming class and at other schools. Using a dialect of the Lisp programming language known as Scheme, the book explains core computer science concepts, including abstraction, recursion, interpreters and metalinguistic abstraction, and teaches modular programm...
@FredOverflow gasp again
@FredOverflow No way, you learned from that? How did you even find the book? It wasn't in my library (in 1986)
It's online.
@sehe No, that was an answer to the question above it.
user1174868
21:43
@FredOverflow That is the book I have but it doesnt really teach syntax
@FredOverflow Ah.
@Jordan SICP is the best book about Scheme and it doesn't teach the syntax? I don't believe it.
Scheme syntax: ((((((((((((((((((((((()))))))))))))))))))))))))))
The end.
@Jordan LOL lisps don't really have any syntax
user1174868
I am brand new to programming
21:44
I'm pretty sure that when you say "syntax", you actually mean something else.
user1174868
It is really hard for me to read some of this
Oh wait, Scheme allows [] too, I think.
@Jordan That's why you need to read first before asking questions because the question would just be annoying to most. Find a friend with the same interest. Learn together
Which really doesn't improve readability at all.
@CatPlusPlus Not that I know
21:45
@sehe How is (fun x y z) not syntax?
Uh. I'm probably going to say something stupid. There:
I can't find anything like "network card" or "sound card". Are they integrated on the MB or?
no thanks, @Jordan
@Cicada yes
People stopped using external sound cards in 1995.
@FredOverflow there, you spoiled the secret
21:46
Haha. My previous PC was a Windows 95.
(Not kidding there)
user1174868
there are things like and and other things in scheme
user1174868
not sure how they work
There are things everywhere.
Wherever you look, there's a thing.
user1174868
yup
@Jordan (and a b) will evaluate to true if both a and b are true, and false in all other cases.
21:47
@CatPlusPlus Not me. I use an external one for recording with different PCs. Way to expensive to put in any one machine.
I think things are trying to infiltrate us.
user1174868
I know how and works
user1174868
but I can't make it work in my code
@Jordan Why? Because you don't know where you need it? Or because you forgot a closing paren?
21:48
Why a fish.
user1174868
@FredOverflow I used it properly I am not sure if the if statement is wrong or the and but I closed parantheses properly
Because dull sound
user1174868
Is there a website I can go to to ask this?
@sehe Who did you pelonk?
@Jordan post a link to ideone and maybe we can help
21:48
@Jordan "wrong or the and but"
@EtiennedeMartel Take a guess.
@EtiennedeMartel Who do you reckon
@CatPlusPlus Abraham Lincoln?
user1174868
Wrong one
Lulz
21:49
@sehe There's only one possiblity.
user1174868
@EtiennedeMartel Eisenhouwer
What. I have to buy fans too? Oh shi -
@Jordan I'm not familiar with the syntax for if in Scheme. How does it work in general?
21:52
@Cicada If you get BOX version of CPU/GPU, then fan will be included.
@FredOverflow (if condition if_true if_false)
One might also be included with the tower, but you need to pay attention to the description.
user1174868
@FredOverflow I think it works just like c, here are my notes on it (if <predicate><consequence> <alternative>)
Obviously it's not HARDCORE OVERCLOCKIN FANS EXTREME, but they work fine for normal people.
@Jordan Well, your example doesn't fit that general scheme. You have (if <predicate><consequence> <predicate> <consequence> <predicate> <consequence>) which is not valid Scheme.
21:53
Oh you're absolutely right. Thanks! And there I was going to buy a complete set of fans for my whole neighbourhood.
user1174868
@FredOverflow I know, but it works with just one statement
user1174868
As in if I cut everything below x y off
Missed opportunity for a fanclub.
No overclocking? :(
@CatPlusPlus She already has one
21:54
@Mysticial I'm not a hardcore gamer at all
Not everyone heats their flats by calculating pi.
I play HoN, SC2 and soon GW2 mainly
@CatPlusPlus I run Folding@Home on my PS3
@Cicada SC2? What league?
@Cicada Not hardcore? I just recently bought the Indie bundle 5, but if I got more than 3 hours of gameplay out of the total, it will be a generous estimate
My brother is master everywhere I stopped playing with him long ago lol
21:56
@Cicada you can't really be worse than Etienne de Martel
@sehe Nope
@Cicada In Europe? Isn't that like platinum in any other region?
@Jordan It seems to me that you want cond instead of if.
Or maybe I'm messing things up. @DeadMG, what's your take on this?
@EtiennedeMartel I don't know? I heard they're the top 2%
21:57
@EtiennedeMartel On what?
"SC2 sucks donkey balls"
What is really the difference here? http://ideone.com/74kzO
Not using delete doesn't allow me to use the default constructor, so why should I add delete at all?
Seems they altered the behaviour of oneboxing deleted message links
user1174868
@FredOverflow I think so but if I understand it correctly cond only allows 1 comparison I think for each condition. Also I need to write this program two ways and I was going to do if statements and cond
@DeadMG How good Europe is at SC2 compared to the other regions.
21:57
the European SC2 professionals are better than the NA SC2 professionals by a significant margin
@ManofOneWay What do you mean?
@ManofOneWay Deleting default ctor when there's already a custom one is superfluous.
earlier, EU < NA < KR, but now it's definitely NA < EU < KR
Aaah. Okay then.
Default ctor is generated implicitly only when you don't provide any.
21:58
Yeah, I figured KR was raping everyone.
@Jordan cond operates on conditions, and those can be as complicated as you want. Nested ands, no problem.
there are hardly any NA players who are truly competitive.
user1174868
It is because NA pros make too much money streaming, no reason to practice
@EtiennedeMartel Mm... not everyone.
the problem with the EU players isn't that they can't pull it out and beat the Koreans
the problem is that only Stephano can do it on a regular basis
the others can only do it occassionally
and there are so many Korean professionals
@GManNickG I mean, when do I even need the = delete; ?
21:59
@DeadMG Yeah, weirdest thing with that is that he's French.
well, at this rate, he won't be good for much
he's having serious behaviour problems
user1174868
@FredOverflow Thanks I got it to work with cond
Well, he's French.
@ManofOneWay When it would be there but you don't want it to be, or to make its deletion more explicit (express intent).

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