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sbi
sbi
00:00
@Jordan I know that those books are really expensive when you are a student. That's why I asked whether you actually want to learn C++. If you only need it because you must not fail that one course, buying something used would probably be good enough. But if you really want to learn C++, be prepared for having to buy a good (and thus expensive) book, and invest years into learning.
user1174868
@sbi Thanks, I want to learn a language for sure I am just not sure which one I guess. I know c++ is the safe choice.
user1174868
@ScottW Already learning spanish
user1174868
lol
user1174868
Actually more like I am wasting my time and money in a spanish class, I learn nothing
sbi
sbi
@Jordan Once you know C++, it's easy to pick up languages like C# or Java. (That's not true the other way around.) And unlike so many others, it's a multi-paradigm language. So unless you want to learn Haskel, Scheme, and Prolog, C++ is a pretty good starting point.
user1174868
00:11
I am learning scheme actually
@sbi Actually, I found MPL a really good 'in' to Haskell. But then I already knew ML, so that's probably not a good example.
user1174868
I am basically wasting years of my life and lots of money in a community college though because I can't get into a real school
aaargh prolog where?
@Jordan I wouldn't worry too much about that. I've seen course material from Stanford and it was horrendous.
sbi
sbi
@Jordan I don't know what it is like where you study, but where I studied, how much I learned largely depended on myself. I could have just sloshed through the courses, barely do enough to not to fail, and wasted my time. Instead I took lots of what they taught as starting points to dig deeper for myself. In my final examinations, I knew more about C++ than the three professors testing me. :) (I got a job offer from one of them right afterwards.)
user1174868
wow that is impressive
00:17
@DeadMG Stanford sucks like any other university. It's only the few clever students who got above the "call of duty" because they wanted to know more who made it famous. You'll learn as much as you want. It's all up to you.
user1174868
unfortunately I am pretty lazy and unmotivated, I usually am discouraged from trying too hard because I see how easy some people have it who do try hard and learn a lot when I try hard and do poorly in the classes
sbi
sbi
@DeadMG I wouldn't put too much credit on that, @Jordan. @Dead's well known her for dismissing everything as "crap" that's not his own creation. :)
@DomagojPandža Agreed. All I'm saying is that more prestigious universities do not actually seem to fare better.
@sbi No, it was really bad. Required VC5, global variables up the wazoo, colours represented as strings.
yeah, the stuff you are taught is a tiny fraction of what you ought to learn
not just "not up to my personal standards"
sbi
sbi
00:18
@DeadMG Not if that prestige doesn't correlate with actually being better, yeah.
Universities won't teach you anything. The only things you'll learn are those you chase on your own.
agree
sbi
sbi
@DeadMG Yeah, had a lot fo that, too. OTOH, when they use that to teach you systems programming, threads, and DB stuff, it doesn't really matter.
If you're really interested, you'll surpass the professors very quickly. And in my country, probably very early on because they'are a bunch of schmucks.
@DomagojPandža Judging by your hardware prices, they probably cost a bomb too.
sbi
sbi
00:20
@Jordan Well, then work on your motivation. You need to sort that out first, because otherwise you'll have a hard time with the rest.
user1174868
Yeah I know, unfortunately I am 25
It's never too late.
In five years, you could become very proficient. If you try hard enough.
user1174868
Yeah, it just sucks being in school with a bunch of kids who do far better than me. God that makes me sound old, but that is how it feels
sbi
sbi
@Jordan What is unfortunate about that? :)
It's all, and I mean all, up to you.
00:22
@Jordan Performance in school != actual ability or talent.
user1174868
I just get discouraged because so much of learning seems ability and not effort based
user1174868
yeah I agree
Just learn.
Don't worry about ego, your place in the world.
Satisfy your curiosity and your passion.
Everything will fall in place.
hang out here for a while and you'll be a C++ master like me in no time
sbi
sbi
@Jordan Ah, that. Don't let yourself get discouraged.
There's a lot more to being a good developer than just hacking skills.
Jun 23 at 18:34, by sbi
@CheersandhthAlf When I was teaching students, I saw a lot of young people, some smart, some not so smart, some likable, some not so likable. I always looked for potential coworkers for the company I was working for back then, so I regularly thought "If this person worked for our company, how much would we gain?"
00:24
communication, teamwork
sbi
sbi
Jun 23 at 18:34, by sbi
I've been on the employer's side of the interview table often enough to have an idea what to look for. After several years of doing this I came to the conclusion that I'd rather have a decently smart, but very social competent person than the smartest ass who's severely social handicapped.
user1174868
Well I think I am going to order this book then, this is the correct one right? amazon.com/Primer-5th-Edition-Stanley-Lippman/dp/0321714113/…
oh, now I remember why I'm here
it's not going to be realistically possible to implement a garbage-collected allocator that offers the same interface as native allocators, is it?
sbi
sbi
@Jordan The 5th? Yes. If you want to learn modern C++, then that is a very good book to learn it from.
for example, you'd get boned if the collector was compacting
user1174868
00:26
Oh it still isn't out, I think I made this same mistake already
sbi
sbi
Don't be disappointed, @Dead, but other than you I need to be awake during the day, so I do need to sleep at night. At least a bit. Good night!
@sbi Nighty night. I'll just bother Domagoj. Sleep well.
@DeadMG Pretty much, if you manage to get in such a situation.
so I'm gonna drop the idea of a GC allocator
sbi
sbi
@Jordan Oh, I see. Damn, I hadn't looked for that. It's two more months. Do you rather wait or buy the 4th edition (not teaching C++11)?
Anyway, I do need sleep. Good luck, @Jordan!
user1174868
00:28
I will wait because I should learn scheme for my class in the fall
user1174868
Thank you for the help
@ScottW Naw. How does the collector know which bits of memory contain objects to move?
Buying books. Love to do it now that I'm able to pay for them myself. But before... Cough.
I remember when I was 12-13 years old, I wanted to buy a book on C++ to study it further. Managed to convince my father to shell out the money for it, came to the store and there was this condescending guy commenting how it is "university material". The book wasn't much, the only one they had, poured over every page of it. I think I still have it somewhere, wonder how crappy it actually was.
user1174868
I used my Dad's c++ book when I was 12, I gave up pretty quickly though
I think my fire for games initially kept it going. But I was always fascinated by technology and physics, simply couldn't give up. Hah, so many misconceptions at the time. And there was the language barrier, I remember not knowing to pronounce "cache" as in "~cash". I read it cha - che.
user1174868
00:41
not english native?
Croatia, Europe, Southeast.
user1174868
Because I didn't say a lot of internet and technology words properly
user1174868
I only speak english
Fundamentalno različita jezična arhitektura. :Đ
user1174868
I think my passion for games kept me from learning anything, ever
user1174868
00:42
story of my life
Yeah, some people rather play games, some have that craving for creating. It's almost an irritating sensation that makes you quit whatever you're playing and work until you fall asleep.
Crap, ate some fish. I don't feel so good anymore.
pwned
Cloth simulation math deriv. fun
ahahah :Đ
Don't anger Togepi.
Damn, that's an old pic.
@DeadMG working on Wide? :D
01:05
@DomagojPandža Playing Starcraft 2 right now, actually.
but in a moment I will be back on Wide
fixed a few defects so far tonight
Haven't played that in a while, don't feel like reinstalling though ._.
eh
the stock game sucks, but I'm playin a custom map called Warships which is pretty fun
user1174868
I was obsessed with SC2, its the reason I failed calculus 1
user1174868
I was trying to get into masters league, but I gave up and then got all As the next semester
lol
was in master's league when the game first came out
not that master's league actually existed at that time, but in that % range
user1174868
01:11
nice, it is hard to get into
user1174868
I was afraid of 1v1 though, it was so intense to me I couldnt do mroe than 5 matches a day lol
that was no problem for me
I need to drive myself to bed before I start Battlefield 3. It's 3:17am, I haven't slept for a bigger part of 2 days. :(
user1174868
I remember now, skyrim and battlefield 3 came out and I put like 600 hours into them
Skyrim deserved most of my attention
I like damn RPGs.
01:19
right
now that the game is won, it is time for me to return to the Wide spec, where I will cut that GC allocator
I agree
what's amazing is how fucking hot it is here
it's 02:25 for chrissakes
.?
Hahah im at school. Lol
In physics.
Learning about displacement for the 100000 time
Save me
@DeadMG Please
And the room died. Why is it when I join it dies?
probably because you said nothing worthy of a response
But all conversations died
there were no conversations when you joined, it was already over
Was this a coincidence or a reaction to my joining?
01:35
can anybody explain what while ((scanf("%19s", line) == 1) means? I understand everything but the == 1 part
><> Fishy in the sea.
While this condition ==1?
Whats on the other side of the brackets
i don't understand how scanf can return a value
Whats here>>>((scanf("%19s", line) == 1)
@user1164937 C++ lounge, not C lounge.
Since @CatPlusPlus isn't here at the moment, I present to you on his behalf:
0
Q: Memory managed C++ singletons

steelclawI'm programming a game engine right now. The hardest part for me has been the memory management. I've been putting in as many optimizations as possible (because every frame counts, right?) and realized that the best way to approach this would be to do resource management using Stack and Pool allo...

01:37
i searched C, but C++ came up and i just assumed some ppl could help me out..my bad, guess i'll search for C
@user1164937 There's probably nobody there right now.
Greetings.
Nice entry
Hello
@JamesDyson Hello good sir.
01:39
do you think that my answer adequately gets across my opinion?
@JimNorton Well thank you
> const *char
never seen that one before
@JimNorton You sound smart. Where do you think I should learn from (C++ that is) thenewboston? someother site?
if I recall correctly, he does not particularly know C++
He still sounds smart
Well where... Ive looked at newboston hes teaching me but I need more info
01:49
the site I started with has gone down
there are no exits
huh
not how I would have designed it
but unfortunately a trivially solvable maze
not terrifically practical
I prefer biometric locks- you never lose the key
02:05
I'm skeptical of the practicality of biometric locks.
Maybe in a few years.
hmm
it's non-trivial to specify make_unique in Wide
I'm gonna start including more explicit declarations, because they're just easier and less ambiguous than the textual ones
Ahoy!
@ScottW It's a funny_lock_t
Delays the unlocking and locking.
02:22
daaaamn
why didn't I start making a specification earlier?
forgot all my rvalue reference mechanics
 
1 hour later…
03:45
Ah, young fledglings.
@ScottW That guy still has much to learn, it seems.
04:11
PHP does the job though.
the job of allowin SQL injections and other attacks?
I guess.
hmmm
turns out that our front door has been open for the last like, four hours
that's 01:00 to 05:15, btw
Open as in not locked with key, or open as in wide open?
open as in tuple unpacking, better syntax, etc open
04:16
At least you got some fresh air then.
indeed
and instead of melting at 02:25, I'm now freezing :P
I'm still melting.
6 AM now. Woke up at 3:30 AM and couldn't fall back asleep again.
cold > hot
when you're cold, you can turn the heating on or put more clothes on
when you're hot, that's it- you're hot
Ventilator goes a long way.
Wait, that's the Dutch word.
In English it's a fan, right?
you likely refer to air conditioning or a fan
yeah
04:20
Anyway, a simple fan is really effective.
Or you could clench your teeth and tough it out.
Air flow causes evaporation of sweat, which sucks the heat out of your body. I like that.
indeed
also more effective if you have less hair
Lol.
What are you, a bear?
what? it's true
that's why humans don't have bodily hair, relative to other mammals
the stuff soaks up sweat like a sponge and stops it from being an effective heat loss mechanism
don't quite recall why our bodies had to have a more effective mechanism, something to do with our larger brains
in any case, hair is quite counterproductive to the property of losing heat
04:23
I think clothing.
@StackedCrooked Lost hair long before we developed clothes.
We use other animals hair.
Dunno, homo sapiens look pretty hairy in science books.
besides
Oh, they don't really.
you really need tools to make clothes
you can't have clothes without, IIRC, fire and knives of some description
after all, naturally, the skin and hair of other animals would rot
04:25
They recently found a frozen dude.
He was carrying a stick with a stone attached to it.
What pathetic tools.
Can't imagine having to kill someone with that. Must be a messy job.
still more effective than your hands
and remember, humans hunted in packs, and for much longer than I'd previously realized, with dogs too
Yeah, I read something about that recently.
Actually I'm not sure if it's just a tool used by those scientists..
nah, I think it's his
well, primarily, don't forget that pieces of it may well have rotted away or been broken off
but also, I think that the head of the semi-axe might be non-trivially sharp
also, men in such times were, naturally, a lot stronger than they are today, since we've atrophied
I'd say that ten of them should do the trick just fine
lol
04:37
Alright almost 7. Then I can buy sandwich.
lol
I you create a float_t class then you can implement operator== to use an epsilon. I wonder why I'm saying random stuff. Sleep deprivation effects must be kicking in.
lol
also lolsies Futurama this week
by the way
I have a specification brevity problem.
05:01
Brevity is good.
agree
but too much usually indicates that I've just underspecified a component
Ell
Ell
morning all
evening
actually almost bedtime for me... lol
Ell
Ell
lol I've been awake for 24 hours, just preparing for another day :L
I'm lying in bed eating a pack of softmints
praying they don't have laxative effects
new version of Wide specification going up
Ell
Ell
05:15
what are thr changes?
in a nutshell
they're listed on the index page now
05:36
Morning
@DeadMG What are you doing up so early? It's 06:40 at your place? =)
been up all night
what? why?
=)
because I woke up at 6pm yesterday :P
Als
Als
For all those acussing me of rep-whoring. I answered the question purely on instinct and habitual basis, like I always do.If I know it I answer it.If i dont i shut the fuck up.If I know of duplicate from the top of my mind I mark it as one.
No I don't go out and search for duplicates.It is pathetic to call names and accuse others just because it it doesnt fit in *your* ideas of how it should be done.

If it makes any sense to your biased thinking I had already reached the rep limit for the day well before I answered the particular question.So what would i gain answering a Q after that?
05:45
Still going on about that?
@Als Are you guys still arguing about that?
Als
Als
@ManofOneWay I just ended it. I don't give a fuck anymore.
Sombody accused me of repwhoring so I must now write a whole paper to defend myself.
hahaha
remember when I was talking about brevity?
turns out I forgot to actually specify the ability to access the pointed-to object, for unique_ptr
how le silly is that?
minor detail :)
05:48
indeed
Als
Als
2 mins ago, by Als
@ManofOneWay I just ended it. I don't give a fuck anymore.
normally, I check the C++ equivalent of all interfaces I specify, to make sure I'm not missing anything
but for some reason with unique_ptr I didn't
In C++ there's a whole bunch of people reviewing the drafts and pointing out errors. If you're alone you don't have that luxury.
the robot points out defects on occassion
but I get the feeling that nobody else actually knows the spec, so it's mostly just me finding the defects
and I've got a fair list already
I've only looked at it briefly.
05:52
well, of course, I could pretend that I find it mega-insulting that you didn't read it
but it is like, 150-200,000 characters long
Or you could pretend to be cool with it :)
it's only a good thing that I should put up examples
Als
Als
@DeadMG What is this about?
@Als The language I am writing.
Als
Als
@DeadMG For your school course? Are you writing a compiler?
05:54
@Als My school course is long over. It's for me. And I will be when I'm ready.
Als
Als
@DeadMG I see..So you design the language too? OO?
@Als If you want it to be.
Hi, I am a newbie to this lounge. I have a confession to make . Looks like I was writing C with classes and STL all these days. How do I redeem my sins and start all over. I beg your pardon if this is not the right question for this forum.
this is not a forum
Als
Als
@DeadMG Is it to solve certain specific things that you find not satisfying in current languages or just an fun learning experience..
05:56
and that's a question I'll answer
@Als It's both. I enjoy it, but I also intend to create a superior product (if it's ever finished).
Als
Als
@DeadMG Interesting. Thought of a name for it? D++ ? :P
@Als It has a working name. Wide.
I am sorry , this is not a forum it is a lounge or a chat room, if I may.
@user917279 Search SO for "The Definitive C++ Book Guide" or something like that
you will find a question with recommendations for books that teach real C++
@user917279 Work yourself through Accelerated C++ and Effective C++.

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