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00:00
Scarlet I was just joking around, relax buddy, there is no link which grants 500 rep
@SerenityStackHolder I don't care about your bounty nor rep. I asked you to post your question that you had asked on SO.
I know you don't care. Thanks for helping me out, but I have solved it already! I appreciate that. :)
00:24
GMAN, do you know someone who have an access to the papers?
@SerenityStackHolder I'm sure some of my teachers do, but I wouldn't ask them, seems like bad form.
@GManNickG It's not bad form, it's a proof you care about something and many professors will see that act as a success in their job, so go there and ask. :)
Also, I am quite sure many of us here are students, just like you are, and unfortunately we have no access to these papers as well. Not to mention majority of us are from Eastern Europe. :D
00:42
Say that a friend asked you to ask it in his place.
:D
Haha, ok.
01:02
^ strange
What's that?
It's from Mars, taken by the Spirit rover
I don't know what it is
What's the scale for the image?
uhm, i can't find that
here's the presentation page:
Sweet, thanks.
01:58
As long as we're posting black-and-white space-related pictures.
02:24
All is well as long as we do that.
03:22
So it has come to this. I'm tweaking console output.
04:08
@CheersandhthAlf So there's soil on Mars? Interesting.
04:22
Anyone alive here?
@Maxpm yup
Joy of joys.
europe's asleep, so the lounge is dead.
I'm only online because I'm visiting CA
Is there a term for vital resources like food, water and air?
Other than, erm, vital resources.
@Maxpm not that I know of
sounds like a question for english.stackexchange.com
04:30
Mmh.
user406009
Essentials?
@EthanSteinberg the phrase "bare essentials" occurred to me at first, but I discounted it as it applies to things I wouldn't call resources, e.g. shelter
That's an interesting point. I'm not sure if I want shelter to be included.
Thank you for the suggestions.
04:53
@StackedCrooked You're not stackedcrooked.tumblr.com, are you?
@Maxpm nope.
Koenig explaining ADL. I find it amusing that he doesn't mention the other term.
@Maxpm I have a Google alert set for the term "stackedcrooked" and often receive alerts from the blog.
Ha.
My username is, unfortunately, too close to Maxim to Google. >_>
@StackedCrooked yeah, modesty is a good trait and all, but not mentioning it there is a disservice to the readers
It might be a little awkward. And btw way, it's also called after ME!!
The other term?
04:57
@Maxpm The Koenig lookup.
@Maxpm ADL == Koenig Lookup
Oh.
I'd feel a little awkward writing something named after me.
I sometimes wish it worked the other way around. So that when you are calling a function, the arguments passed to the function would also be searched in the function's namespace. This would greatly reduce the verbosity when working with boost libraries.
yeah
Indeed.
05:01
although that could create quite a mess if the function got looked in the namespace of one argument, and then a different argument got looked up in that namespace as a result
There's probably a multitude of subtle problems.
As usual :D
I wouldn't want to be responsible for thinking through the nasty edge cases of that in usage of the STL :-)
Modules would solve the problem. As usual.
@Maxpm do you know if there's a writeup of the discussions of the many many modules proposals that were put forward at the Kona meeting?
user406009
How would modules solve this problem?
05:04
@je4d I have no idea.
@EthanSteinberg With proper modules, namespaces aren't needed at all.
That's how D handles it.
After you import std.stdio, you can just use writeln(). No need to fully-qualify it with std.stdio.writeln().
(Although you can if you want to, of course.)
You can also rename a very long import.
user406009
"using namespace std;"
"namespace shortcut = reallylong::probablynested::namespace;"

Fairly sure C++ already has these features.
using, I've been told, is discouraged. I wasn't aware of the namespace foo = bar syntax.
using should not be used in the global namespace in header files. If you define a namespace for your own code you can import the std names in it. This way it won't clash with other outsider code.
However, I rarely import names from the std namespace since it's not a big deal to write the std:: every time. However, boost often has nested namespaces which makes the code very verbose. So I do use using when using Boost..
namespace foo { using namespace std; /* ... */ }
Like that?
05:14
I see.
Not necessarily the entire namespace.
using std::tuple; for example.
@Maxpm But this should usually also be avoided in header files.
@StackedCrooked Oh? Why is that?
@Maxpm If your header is included by lot's of other code that uses the same namespace and that other code isn't aware that the names have been imported then this might cause some confusion. It's not usually a problem. But better not to mess too much with that.
A different problem that may occur is that the other code starts using the imported names. This means you can't remove the using statement in that one header anymore without breaking many pieces of code in different source files.
And using statements in header files are generally frowned upon. I like to avoid frowns.
05:34
Is clang pronounced see-lang or klang?
I should clarify I'm talking about the compiler. :)
I know, it's pronounced the same as the word
You can hear Chandler Carruth say it many many times here
Oh, sweet. Thanks.
 
2 hours later…
07:31
I always say see-lang. Klang sounds ≈odd.
Anyone there?

Let's say we have a sentence: "Google has Android Developers website." If we were to replace the word "has" in the sentence, what's the best verb we can use to replace?
owns?
boasts
materialized
07:49
Do you know how to cite the Android Developers webpage in a research paper?
08:03
Never written a research paper.
@StackedCrooked What's up =)
I should sleep but I don't want to.
Since I'm free for the weekend the solution to this dilemma is simple.
Simply don't sleep. Eventually the sleep will come automatically.
No one ever cites a popular website on paper, without links anymore?
@StackedCrooked i think it looks like maybe ice or dry ice or something
0
A: Are 3.5 and 3.5f the same in C++?

Zuppa3.5 is a double, 3.5f is a float. double has more precision that float. And now you hit some funny thing in the nature of IEEE-754 floats: a value of 0.5 (or 3.5) can not be precisely expressed. Therefore a double and a float differ (due their different precision). see here: http://www.cygnus-s...

> the value of 0.5 can not precisely be hit. it is slightly (depending on precision) above.
lol no?
08:22
no, it's wrong, 0.5 can be represented exact
08:35
The fact that you can write it as 1/2 is a big hint that it should be simple to represent in binary.
1/3 is probably a lot harder.
I remember, an old classmate of mine once brought fire-crackers to school. The school, believe it or not, reported this to the anti-terrorism squad. He was almost expelled before someone from the squad realized they were just silly fire-crackers. After that he got this notice.
notice the i.e low intensity explosive device term.
firecrackers have led to injuries, and children might be scared of the bangs. when we played with dynamite as children, the local police gave us a very stern speech. but the most damaging thing was a sack of cod tongues which a youngster was to deliver to a teacher, but just placed behind the door in the the teachers' room, where it was forgotten over the weekend -- what a stink!
2
What are the motives to bring firecrackers to school? I can never think of one anyway...
08:54
Fire-crackers should be banned or something.
Yay! Silent Fourth of July!! A first since the 1800s.
@IntermediateHacker That English is ...lacking.
@StackedCrooked I know. That's because the principal wrote the original circular in Hindi-Urdu, which was then translated. :D
With Google translate?
:p
Nothing is better than Google Translate. I concur to the big daddy of all Languages.
09:00
Nothing is worse than Google Translate. It translates a well-written document into an uncomprehendable retarded mess.
I can do worse.
I con doo wuse, u no?
I be agreeing very much. You do not better when I do worsing.
Me no wussy. I worsty. I drink tea.
09:05
Why u drink tea when u not British?
I was just going back to British times with Nobita and Doraemon
09:43
I used to love that show when I was a kid
but nowadays I think Nobita is a brain-less idiot with no guts
0
Q: Something Wrong with the start menu on Windows

IntermediateHackerWhenever I start a maximized window of Google Chrome, my start menu disappears for some reason. The problem isn't just with Chrome. Although it is visible on both Internet Explorer 9 and Opera, the browsers render things under the start menu, so the elements at the bottom aren't visible. Similar ...

10:22
anyone knows how to ignore files in mercurial? I have a bin folder and a src folder. I don't want to upload the bin folder however it's annoying to see the bin files when using hg status..
They have status "?" so I just want to ignore the whole bin folder
Add bin/ to .hgignore.
And add and commit .hgignore.
@CatPlusPlus thanks:)
the brain is back
@JohannesSchaublitb short question for you concerning your answer here stackoverflow.com/a/8748943/893693
what is the purpose of stuff like that which is similar to saying template<int = 0>?
beside SFINAE black magic
10:42
no purpose
^^ so is that more a "by accident" or was that planned from the standard?
@bamboon You have to put SFINAE tricks in template parameters for conversion operators. So to be uniform, might as well do SFINAE the same way everywhere.
Oh wait, that's what I put in my answer below.
@LucDanton ^^yep
With aliases usage looks like e.g. EnableIf<Foo<T>> = _, so it's less of an eyesore.
10:48
u can also say "..." instad of "= _"
wanted to ask that, too, what is that underscore? is it just an alias for 0 ?
@bamboon My EnableIf alias doesn't use int as a type but a scoped enum. _ is a value of that type.
So you can't do EnableIf</* ... */> = 2.
@JohannesSchaublitb How does that work?
@LucDanton ah ok, so many hacks make my brain bleed
variadic
too bad u cannot alias a pack expansion
10:59
@RMartinhoFernandes You may be interested in this.
@sbi I've bought "destroyer of worlds", "accelerando" and "iron sunrise", so which should i read first?
re discussion, lemme just say that bjarne shuddered when he heard about SFINAE, and i think, it's just got worse!
need more off-topic here...
^ hungry
11:18
@CheersandhthAlf oh... another food-related picture
@LucDanton why might he be interested in it?
We're not strictly fond of using = _ atm.
= {} looked neat(er?) but the Standard is dumb :(
what's wrong with a macro?
for that matter, run the source through a script, and u can have any notation u want
That would be two macros because the definition can't have the default argument.
Why don't you write it in Java?
11:24
Not to mention SFINAE for partial specs etc.
What would one or more macro buy considering the language let us do what we want already?
in partial specializations you cannot use the "..." style either
unless the primary template specifically allows it to match > 0 elements
just like with the "= void" case
u don't have to put up with silly "= _". u can say "EQUALS_UNDERSCORE" instead
11:27
@JohannesSchaublitb foo<T, EnableIf<is_pointer<T>> is fine.
yep
but the primary template has to have a dummy parameter then
template<typename T, typename = enabled> looks fine(-ish) to me. Where enabled is the relevant type used in EnableIf.
Although I tend to use template<typename T, typename Sfinae = enabled> for clarity.
but the author of the primary template has to know you abuse sfinae
you cannot e.g write a partial spec of "std::hash" with SFINAE
@CheersandhthAlf Allow people to have a hobby :)
Correct. Presumably the author is me btw. Those are aliases for my own convenience.
I.e. when I write stuff that uses SFINAE.
11:30
unfortunately this is not valid:
template<typename T> struct hash; template<typename T, typename ...U, typename enable_if<is_enum<T>, U>::type...> struct hash<T, U...>;
to write that, it is effectively UB
"ill-formed; NDR"
It's UB to me alright.
because the only valid instantiation of the partial specialization has an empty template parameter pack "U"
Not being able to use SFINAE for template specs where the primary template wasn't written with this in mind is not an issue with std::enable_if though.
it is IMO
with the approach, that is
not with the specific template "enable_if"
11:35
Do you have a preferred fix in mind to solve that? template<typename T> struct hash<T, typename std::enable_if<std::is_pointer<T>::value>::type> ?
(With primary template the same as currently.)
"<T, typename std::enable_if<std::is_pointer<T>::value>::type>" does not match "<int*>". It matches "<int*, void>"
I know. Speaking hypothetical language fix here.
default arguments for partial specializations would fix it
i treating alias templates as instantiation dependent constructs albeit replaced immediately
so that you could say:
template<typename T> struct hash<take_first<T, SOME_SFINAE_HERE>> { .. }
hm wait, will not work -.-
because it will be "hash<T>", which is equivalent to the primary template
Isn't that the intent though? Or how does that previous solution avoid that?
i intended it to be distinct from the primary template but still be <T>
of course you cannot have the cake and eat it
11:42
So same problem in both cases right?
nono
the problem with template<typename T, typename U> using take_first = T; is that when used as above, you are trying to define template<typename T> struct hash {};
because the primary template theoretically has an implicit argument list of hash<T>
so the "partial specialization" would actually try to define the primary template
I thought the default argument solution would be used like template<typename T, EnableIf</*...*/> = _> struct hash<T> though.
but with a forbidden implicit argument list
no
template<typename U = void, typename T, EnableIf</*...*/> = _> struct hash<T>
that way
>> " unresolved external symbol _mpg123_read "
how do i resolve that error ?
I am using visual C++ 2008 to compile mpg123
on windows
so far the experience has been a night mare :-| // Oh btw i have a very small background with C++
@JohannesSchaublitb I see.
11:47
@Abhishek the linker cannot find the definition of that symbol
where is it defined?
in mpg123.h
simple example: template<typename A, typename B> struct X; template<typename B, typename A> struct X<A, B> {};
valid
which is inturn calling a .dll
but if you exchange the order in the <A, B> it is invalid
Completely unrelated but is static_cast<T*>(static_cast<void*>(&storage)) the appropriate way to get from the storage to where the object is going to reside when using e.g. std::aligned_storage?
11:48
however the GCC maintainer recently proposed to make the above invalid
his testcase of course was something different :)
he said that it is surprising that a partial specialization that is not more specialized than the primary template is valid
I used to be surprised that foo<T> is invalid lol. The rules governing this kind of stuff are weird and in terms of rewriting, aren't they?
i think it is an elegant solution to specify the primary template as a kind of partial specialization
I agree. What matters is the ordering.
well, it is not called a partial specialization, but is specified with the same mechanisms
Would you always order the primary template after explicit partial specs?
11:51
foo<T> is not really ordered with foo<U>. so i think it makes sense that it is ill-formed, no matter whether or not the dependent types T and T are different
but currently it is wellformed if T is different from U, which i think doesnt really make sense
What meaning of different here?
i.e if T is the first parameter and U is the second
@LucDanton i don't know, but I think it makes sense to require that the partial specs are more specialized
already at definition time
the clang guys are too hard stucked on their AST :)
one guy didn't want to believe that partial specializations are templates, and another guy didn't want to believe that object data members are variables :)

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