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20:01
@ViniyoShouta Every time someone asks about it it is delayed 1 year. We are not at 8943 years of delay and counting.
so no ideas when it's coming out?
@ViniyoShouta Never. It is happy to be in its closet.
@ViniyoShouta More like 3045.
I'd rather die than insert my mind into a computer
specially if the OS is windows
Anyone who's had a harddrive crash after six months or had memory modules die unexpectedly for no reason will sel this as folly. You're basically putting your alleged consciousness in the hands of some Chinese chip manufacturer. Good luck with that.
that's why you do backups, duh :D
@ViniyoShouta For this any other reasons I think this technology is nowhere as near as the dude suggests.
20:13
@ViniyoShouta Are you kidding? Look up the statistics on how often Google loses its customers data.
well google is google...it's gonna get AI done before C++ gets modules
nwp
nwp
I don't get the hype for modules
they cannot decrease compile times without also decreasing performance
and the convenience of not having to #include and link doesn't feel like such a big deal
maybe I'm missing something
lol, #include and link considered "not a big deal"
oh boi
Ven
Ven
@Puppy lost last one?
no, last but one
nwp
nwp
20:21
@Shoe the whole point of modules is really just to avoid having to specify which lib to link?
@nwp Consider files a.cpp, b.cpp and c.cpp. All of them include <iostream>, <functional>, <tuple>, <algorithm> and <random>. If you don't use something like precompiled headers, every time you compile these files, you parse all of these headers for each file
Modules at the very least will solve this problem
user1804599
@Ven gonna write it in Rust not Idris
Howdevening.
user1804599
because calling Idris from C is not well-supported and 100% undocumented
if done well, they won't have the disadvantages of precompiled headers
nwp
nwp
20:24
@milleniumbug yeah, that's a good thing. If you don't do it you cannot optimize for the special case that is your cppss
???
how is parsing several thousand kilobytes of C++ code for every file in your solution a good thing
nwp
nwp
if you use std::sort on a vector<int> the compiler builds a special sort just for that case and may even be able to optimize it out completely by proving it is already sorted
if you don't then you cannot, you are stuck with essentially qsort
you're missing the point
It's parsing the same template declaration for every file in your solution
Ell
Ell
@nwp that is incorrect tho
you don't need to parse every time to do that
you can parse the template once
nwp
nwp
has nobody thought about caching the parsed header?
Ell
Ell
20:28
keep the template in memory or w/e
nwp
nwp
I bet it's just not worth it
@nwp No. Consider code like: #define SOMETHING\n#include "something.h". Here the definition of SOMETHING can affect how the code in the header is compiled. Change that to #define SOMETHING\nimport something; and that doesn't happen--your definition of SOMETHING doesn't affect the module.
@nwp yeah, they're precompiled headers. But they come with lots of caveats
For example, AFAIR in the current gcc's implementation, there can be only one, and only at the top of the file
@nwp Yes--that's generally called "precompiled headers". They're problematic at best.
Ven
Ven
@Zoidberg oh? why?
nwp
nwp
20:30
so modules = macro resistant precompiled headers? to save a bit of parsing?
@Zoidberg YESYESYES
user1804599
I want a C API, so you can call it from most things.
user1804599
Such as Node.js.
nwp doesn't know, oh nwp doesn't know, don't tell nwp, nwp doesn't know
@Ven O SHIT WADDUP
nwp
nwp
20:31
@Shoe catchy
user1804599
So you can implement a LiveScript front-end (and oh you will)
@nwp At the very least, it will solve this problem.
@nwp A bit? Make an experiment: run g++ -E a.cpp > out and check the size of the generated file
or wait, don't, I'll do that for you
@nwp fucking A
Ven
Ven
@набиячлэвэлиь u dat boy?
20:33
Dat assboi
➜  ~ cat a.cpp
#include <iostream>
#include <tuple>
#include <random>
#include <algorithm>
#include <functional>
➜  ~ g++ -std=c++11 a.cpp -E > out
➜  ~ ls -lh out
-rw-r--r--. 1 milleniumbug milleniumbug 2,2M 05-10 22:33 out
@nwp TWO FUCKING MEGABYTES
lol
gg c++
Well, technically they are not
if you are on windows
Ell
Ell
@milleniumbug optimise pls :P
Windows gets the sizes wrong
I don't remember the details but they call megabytes mibibytes and viceversa
or something like that
Ell
Ell
lol that's wrong
20:37
@Ell How should be the optimizer involved here? I'm only running the preprocessor here
Ell
Ell
oh lol that's what the -E is
my bad
I thought you were talking about program size
Note that all of this is what the compiler and optimizer would be reading
No, the parser(/lexer?) would be doing that
argh fuck you nab
4
the lexer isn't the bottleneck here
also
➜  ~ cat b.cpp
#include <range/v3/all.hpp>
➜  ~ g++ -std=c++11 b.cpp -Irange-v3/include -E > out
➜  ~ ls -lh out
-rw-r--r--. 1 milleniumbug milleniumbug 3,9M 05-10 22:38 out
seriously fuck nab
20:39
I have no idea about compiler design :v
Ell
Ell
you're correct, but an ass ;)
only the lexer reads the source
Ven
Ven
@набиячлэвэлиь im giving myself 0/10 for being so bad at memes
@milleniumbug I'd try that with cpp-sort, but meh ._____.
@Ell Preprocessor does too
Ven
Ven
20:40
@набиячлэвэлиь we still <3 u
@Puppy no, that's what the preprocessor spits out
Ell
Ell
^
Ven
Ven
#InCPPWeTrust
well you can use xmacros and stuff to generate source code
Ell
Ell
you don't preprocess twice right
20:41
@набиячлэвэлиь You really know how to make me not do things <3
@Ell no, preprocessor is single-pass
but AFAIK the typical preprocesed size isn't much bigger than the source size.
If you ignore all the includes, sure
➜  ~ cat c.cpp
#include <cpp-sort/sort.h>
➜  ~ g++ -std=c++11 c.cpp -Icpp-sort/include -E > out
➜  ~ ls -lh out
-rw-r--r--. 1 milleniumbug milleniumbug 2,5M 05-10 22:42 out
@Morwenn still competitive I see
well in this case, I meant the total preprocessed size of the TU, versus the total source size of all of the files that TU ultimately includes.
since the preprocessor also has to preprocess all of the includes
20:43
@milleniumbug Well, it does include a good part of the stdlib.
Ven
Ven
Sometimes I wonder if I move the bits of my ints too much. Then I just realize "meh, shift happens".
9
@Puppy 2nd try?
sure
Rambo II was as good as the 1st one
Ben
Ben
20:57
morning Bartek.
a very microsoftish approach to the problem
user3790646
Yesterday was a funny day for Brazil
@Zoidberg visualization of memory is more structured now
user1804599
yay
21:10
Memory is now organized in "segments", so malloc/free is just around the corner :)
@fredoverflow That's getting better and better :D
@milleniumbug Pretty sure people would slam them regardless of which way they went on this one (but they did make the right decision in this case).
Today I probably used reverse iterators for the first time.
speaking of iterators, this
yesterday, by R. Martinho Fernandes
Down at the bottom of all problems is the fixation with iterators, IYAM.
I wonder how would an alternative solution work
@Morwenn Sorry, but you're a little late to the party. In fact, it was a couple of years ago when they tore down the house where that party was held.
21:17
Python-style iterators, maybe?
@milleniumbug Piterators of great success!
@JerryCoffin That's pretty deep.
@milleniumbug Differently.
2
I like Python style yield and generators
I like CAPITALISM
they make creating your own iterables a very simple task
OTOH the syntactic difference between generators and functions depends on existence of yield in the function, and I don't like that
21:22
@набиячлэвэлиь Marx wouldn't be proud.
142
Q: sorting a vector in descending order

fredoverflowShould I use std::sort(numbers.begin(), numbers.end(), std::greater<int>()); or std::sort(numbers.rbegin(), numbers.rend()); // note: reverse iterators to sort a vector in descending order? Are there any benefits/drawbacks with one approach or the other?

@Morwenn Only death could still Marx's pride.
@JerryCoffin Considering his last words, death almost failed too.
@Morwenn The funny thing is that for the last three big features, each time I was done implementing it, the number of lines of code had actually decreased :)
@fredoverflow Yeah, not good and stuff, but I had a use case :v
user1804599
21:26
match self.blocks.get_mut(&block) {
    Some(b) => b.insts.push(inst_id),
    None    => panic!("invalid block ID"),
};
user1804599
@Ven look I'm writing non-total functions
@fredoverflow Deleting code is my favourite way to implement new features ♥
@Morwenn The man had some right ideas
@Morwenn Much as I like deleting code, I prefer to avoid writing the unnecessary code to start with.
@Morwenn They could be seen as unusually humble, admitting he'd already said far too much.
@JerryCoffin I guess that I like deleting code enough to actually enjoy the fact that I wrote unneeded code.
@JerryCoffin I don't know, that's still pretty badass.
Ven
Ven
21:33
@Zoidberg When really, expect is so mich simpler :p
user1804599
:O
user1804599
nice :)
user3790646
I always thought @Zoidberg was Cicada... But it seems like she/he isn't
user1804599
fixed :)
Ven
Ven
She isn't indeed. Since Cicada is currently banned
@Zoidberg good!
user1804599
21:37
self.blocks.get_mut(&block)
    .expect("invalid block ID")
    .insts.push(inst_id);
@Ven Ooooh, how come? :o
user1804599
trolling
Ven
Ven
Linked something to islam.se with a mod around, i believe
user1804599
user1804599
21:39
A gem of unashamed hilarity and sadness.
Oh, makes sense.
nwp
nwp
cmake is such a pain
I hate it
user1804599
Use Cargo.
user3790646
Uh... Code::Blocks doesn't seem to like Boost too much... Isn't there a way to link all Boost libs without having to link each one separately?
21:49
@Andrey Use CMake or some such?
user3790646
@wilx No, cmake is such a pain
user3790646
I hate it
@Andrey You just suck at it.
user3790646
@wilx Yeah, yeah
I'm starting to doze off. See you another day.
user3790646
22:01
@Morwenn See you.
nwp
nwp
only 1.5 hours to add 1 line of "run this ln command"
in cmake
must be a new record
user3790646
@nwp Why is your profile picture more cool than mine?
nwp
nwp
@Andrey because I analyzed the image generating program before choosing a nick?
you could make a better one and upload it as a profile pic and tell people you were ridiculously lucky
user3790646
@nwp Oh is that possible? Hmm. I don't remember that, it feels like it's been 1,8 years, 22.2 months, 97.1 weeks or 679.7 days since I created this account.
user3790646
Oh wait, it's been that exactly amount of time.
nwp
nwp
22:05
maybe it is actually based on the user ID and the nick has no influence
@Andrey it's as if you had looked it up!
user3790646
@nwp Indeed, I did!
user3790646
:D
@nwp I'd say it's not a problem of "how to do this in CMake", but "Is this the best practice solution"
user3790646
nwp
nwp
@milleniumbug it is not, and even considering ln defeats the purpose of cmake
22:07
Many examples of CMakeLists.txt on the net are written by recovering Autotools developers
@nwp So why are you doing it
nwp
nwp
I recently watched youtube.com/watch?v=3eH4hMKl7XE and the guy said cmake is the only viable and non-asocial build tool to use
> 88:44
nwp
nwp
because I'm bad and unwilling to put in the effort for a hobby project
nwp
nwp
22:10
I will attempt to fix it when it becomes an issue
No I meant why are you making symlinks as part of your build process
nwp
nwp
because the alternative is copying/moving the folder with the textures and models
nwp
nwp
another alternative would be to make cmake generate an .ini file, but I don't even wanna try looking that up
So it's not build process, but installation?
nwp
nwp
22:14
I suppose it is
Hi I am having a problem with my code. When I execute it first time after compiling it doesn't show the vectors that it has to show, but the second time when I execute it it works. Why?
nwp
nwp
@milleniumbug is that actually a good thing to use or just terrible syntax for "copy all the stuff"
Assumption that symlinks are handily available to use breaks on Windows
22:17
ln -s is no wurk :(
nwp
nwp
windows will need special attention anyways, probably a real installer thing
CPack :D
it's quite undocumented even by CMake standards
It's supposed to generate NSIS installers, .zips, .tar.gzs, .debs and RPMs
user3790646
@nwp Just so that you know, the picture that I just changed to be used as my profile pic is a lot cooler than yours :)
nwp
nwp
@milleniumbug that would be really awesome
I'll let you know if/when I use it for real
nwp
nwp
22:27
I was about to run out of stuff to watch, then I discovered the meeting c++ youtube channel and it looks like I'll be ok for a while
nwp
nwp
> Mastering the IoT with C++ and JavaScript
what could possibly go wrong?
what is Egg?
nwp
nwp
meh, looks too much like motion sickness
What motion sickness
nwp
nwp
22:33
me getting motion sickness watching people run around in 3D worlds
it really sucks :(
omg such quality videos:
@nwp 80% of Egglord's channel is Isaac which is 2D
23:32
does all allocated memory on the heap get deleted after the main thread is finished?
23:43
need to send car for service again
user3790646
@AjeetKljh Yes
user3790646
@AjeetKljh The memory is returned to the OS for other processes

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