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7:00 PM
the textual change won't change the binary interface
 
This is what I mean :P
 
@daknøk hey, are you and 'WTP the same guy?
 
@IntermediateHacker I've got two accounts.
I wanted to start over. WTP'--'s posts are embarrassing.
 
What's a good size for a TEMP/TMP RAM disk for GCC and MSVC? It seems 1GB is mightily large...
 
7:05 PM
Depends on the project.
 
@DeadMG pastebin.com/u5PXH9iz , the function is retarded but serves its purpose and I experienced it with others
 
One of my codebases produces about 600MB of temporaries.
 
@bamboon Still not seeing any timing code or anything like that...
 
@CatPlusPlus I don't mean the actual object files, those are on a real HDD. I mean the intermediate assembly stuff GCC and cl.exe produce
 
If you use GCC without -pipe, then you're doing it wrong.
 
7:07 PM
@DeadMG I look at the task manager and see let's say 2 sec for the standard and let's say 15 secs for the parallel one
@CatPlusPlus Is that a comment to me?
 
@bamboon You used task manager.
 
go and write an actual benchmark and come back...
 
@bamboon oh God don't use Task Manager for that.
Even the Big Ben does better benchmarking than Task Manager.
 
Use a parallel profiler.
If C++ even has one.
 
7:08 PM
And if C++ hasn't got one, write one.
 
@CatPlusPlus the difference has been proven negligible, and... I'm on Windows.
 
I'd even take a simple QueryPerformanceCounter kind of thing
 
Not that it will tell you much when you have memory-bound application.
No, really, that vector is 7GB large.
 
@CatPlusPlus yeah, that is what I asked in the first place and asked about cache locality and stuff and if you guys don't believe my eyes then take this version with tick_count pastebin.com/12BFMc4d
 
But really, what are you expecting this to measure?
 
7:13 PM
@bamboon Your computationally expensive function is a joke, by the way.
 
Does anyone here have an account on twitter I haven't followed yet?
 
apart from the fact that the compiler could well optimize it to simply return a pre-computed value, since you never use the input
 
Parallelism is not "throw multiple threads at the problem and it will run faster!".
 
20 double mults isn't an awful lot on the scale of things
 
@DeadMG I know, said that already but experience it with others, this is just the most simpliest one
@CatPlusPlus nothing, I just experienced it and wanted and explanation
 
7:14 PM
So you discovered threads have overhead.
Congrats.
Now you know applying parallel_for_each without thinking about it is not going to make things better.
 
Has anyone here tried old Linda (parallel stuff)?
 
@DeadMG you're on twitter?
 
Gonna play minecraft
later
 
@IntermediateHacker No?
 
In computer science, Linda is a model of coordination and communication among several parallel processes operating upon objects stored in and retrieved from shared, virtual, associative memory. Linda was developed by David Gelernter and Nicholas Carriero at Yale University and is named for Linda Lovelace, an actress in the porn movie Deep Throat, a pun on Ada's tribute to Ada Lovelace. Model This model is implemented as a "coordination language" in which several primitives operating on ordered sequence of typed data objects, "tuples," are added to a sequential language, such as C, and a ...
 
7:17 PM
@rubenvb I think it will work, but luckily problem solved. One idiot commited to git 1.5Gb file - so git hanged up. But from 3rd attempt it managed to download this file. Thank you a lot for your help!
 
ok
note to self: Attempting to allocate an 8GB vector crashes Windows.
 
@DeadMG how much RAM've you got? Pagefile?
 
@DeadMG theoretically, if the rest of your program uses 0 memory, you could allocate a 4GB vector on a 32-bit system though.
 
6GB of both
 
7:24 PM
@IntermediateHacker No.
You get 2GB of address space on 32-bit Windows.
 
@bamboon OK. My repro of your code (with an 800MB vector instead of an 8GB one) has parallel_for_each running with 0.4 seconds and the serial for_each running at 1.4 seconds.
 
Or 3GB if you boot the OS with special switch.
 
@DeadMG strange
 
@CatPlusPlus /PAE
 
@CatPlusPlus and the exe is linked with /LARGEADDRESSAWARE (perhaps with underscores between the words)
 
7:25 PM
@CatPlusPlus Damn, maybe I got that mixed up. But I read somewhere that a 4GB virtual address space is available for processes on a 32-bit system.
 
@sehe PAE allows the OS to address more than 4GB, but it doesn't change how much it allows for processes.
 
@DeadMG did Windows really give an error or did it just slow down to slower than-slow speed?
 
@CatPlusPlus true
 
@rubenvb No, it actually hardlocked.
 
@IntermediateHacker 4GB is the entire address space. But half of it is reserved for kernel stuff.
 
7:26 PM
@rubenvb The difference is mostly apparent by the number of modal dialogs
 
i.e., every program was not responding, system keys unresponsive, not even "This program is not responding", the works
 
@CatPlusPlus oh, I see now. But can you change the space reserved for the kernel?
 
@DeadMG did you use tbb or ppl now? can you set a grainsize on ppl to parallel_for_each? this is unfortunately not possible on tbb. I compiled with gcc
 
@bamboon I don't know if you can, but I certainly didn't
 
@DeadMG nope, that counts as slowing down. HDD activity probably 100%, ecerything being pushed to pagefile. Not crashing. Linux would do the exact same (except perhaps still have a responding GUI or console).
 
7:27 PM
@DeadMG yeap that is HDD
 
@IntermediateHacker It's 1gb kernel : 3gb userspace on a default linux build, but you can build 2g/2g kernels
 
@rubenvb The system keys should always be responsive.
always
that's their whole goddamn purpose
if your system keys aren't responding, then your OS is unresponding.
 
@DeadMG they are responsive, their response is just... delayed ;-)
 
that's unresponsive
 
Even when everything freezes there is always one thing that still works: moving the mouse cursor.
 
7:28 PM
@DeadMG you (and I) said "crashing"
 
system keys unresponsive == crashing
 
crashing != unresponsive != hardlocking.
 
@daknøk yeah, but it hangs on my notebook pc. Since the touchpad driver stops working.
 
crashing is BSOD or a Fatal windows error
 
is my OS usable? no? then it crashed
the fact that if I leave it for a million years it might become usable later is irrelevant
 
7:29 PM
@DeadMG did you get the legendary blue screen of death?
 
So Ubuntu with Unity crashed?
 
I am really liking 8GB of RAM and my new i5 running at 2.8GHz.
 
@daknøk What do I know about Ubuntu? Or Unity, for that matter?
 
@DeadMG you said "usable? no?".
 
usable means "if I push a system key, the OS responds"
not just "I dislike the UI design"
 
7:30 PM
:2820395 it's a laptop. It's a) impossible and b) stupid to overclock it :/
@DeadMG I've had the same happen on Linux.
 
@rubenvb realised that it couldn't be the K versions and deleted my comment
 
@rubenvb Then it crashed.
 
@DeadMG no, five minutes later the task manager popped up and I killed the process eating all the RAM. On WIndows, the same took half an hour.
 
anyway thanks @DeadMG
 
crash == work is lost. Unresponsive == work is not lost if you're patient and haven't eaten too much yummy cheese
 
7:33 PM
@rubenvb That's crashing. Five minutes? Crash.
if the OS hasn't responded in, at most, the time it would have taken me to simply reboot the system, then that's a crash.
 
@DeadMG I really hope you don't have SSDs.
 
I do, actually
although I moved my pagefile off it
 
@rubenvb everybody who hasn't an SSD yet, is just punishing himself
 
@bamboon or isn't as rich as you people. Sheesh. SSDs are f-ing expensive
 
@rubenvb They're not that expensive anymore.
their price has done nothing but drop like a rock since they first came out
 
7:37 PM
Maybe I'd buy an SSD if I needed a new HDD. But just to have SSD? Nope.
 
@DeadMG More than €1/MB vs €0,08/MB for a HDD. SSDs are expensive.
 
@CatPlusPlus it is not about "having" a SSD but about making your PC fly
 
@CatPlusPlus the thing is, you can't replace your HDD with the SSD, because the SSD is a lot smaller whatever you do.
 
@rubenvb It's not about replacing.
SSDs supplement HDDs.
 
@bamboon I painted wings on mine to make it fly.
 
7:38 PM
you have both in your system
 
@rubenvb haha, not really?
 
like CPU and GPU
 
@bamboon no, not really. I did give it Red Bull.
 
@rubenvb haha, that would be worth a youtube video
 
@bamboon Meh.
 
7:43 PM
0
Q: The 'Real Programmer' Syndrome?

IntermediateHackerWhy do programmers sometimes tend to feel that they aren't doing what it really takes to create a program. Real Programmers Code in Hex! ( or ASM, C, any other low level thing-a-majig ) Hence the Real Programmer syndrome. This can especially be seen at forums. I once myself got this synd...

Note: This isn't a serious question.
 
@IntermediateHacker The question is: What is the question?
 
So we should vote to close?
 
Seriosity is not a requirement.
 
...guess I have a retarded sense of humour. -_-
 
delete = rage quit.
 
7:46 PM
Hmm. Windows SDK v7.1. Installing VS2010SP1 removes x64 compilers. INstalling update to fix that makes the headers unusable due to a missing ammintrin.h.
ugh
 
WinSDK needs a replacement.
 
Oh great. VS11 Beta Express can only be installed on Win8
 
At least headers.
 
I repeat my previous statement:
 
Something that'd wrap WinAPI 1:1 and not include any WinSDK headers.
And no macro mess and all.
 
7:51 PM
@CatPlusPlus lol. You're kidding right? What will their C library headers look like?
They're hugely intermixed.
 
Is including them in the cpp files of the wrapper acceptable?
 
Not my point. Well, yes, wrapper would probably depend on WinSDK.
But client code could use newer, less broken headers.
 
@CatPlusPlus and yet the C library problem remains AFAICT.
 
What C library?
 
@CatPlusPlus msvcr*
 
7:52 PM
What about it?
 
have you ever tried to trace the include's? Windows headers all over
I don't think you can just take that dependency away.
 
Well, then redo CRT headers as well.
I don't remember it depending on WinSDK, though.
No standard headers include windows.h.
 
@CatPlusPlus Once again, I am full of shit.
I apologize :)
 
Does C++11 change linking in any way?
 
8:01 PM
Ok, just making sure
 
I'm having some trouble with the Windows SDK - anyone use the Command Prompt environment?
It keeps losing track of where the nmake command is.
 
@GeorgeEdison I bet CatPlusPlus would love to talk about nmake
 
@GeorgeEdison I do/try
@GeorgeEdison what's the output of set PATH after you setenv /x64? Can you run cl /??
 
One sec... I'll get it for you.
cl works.
 
I've added SDK to PATH/INCLUDE/LIB permanently.
 
8:04 PM
 
And nmake is as bad as any make.
 
It displays a diff of the PATH before and after.
 
Hmm... that diff didn't work as good as I had hoped...
 
@GeorgeEdison it seems they forgot an nmake.exe in the x86_amd64 subfolder. Try copying the one from the main Bin directory to the x86_amd64 directory
Another ridiculous Microsoft packaging bug
 
8:07 PM
Lol...
 
could anyone help me with that bst question ? :)
 
hmmm
 
@rubenvb Thanks for the idea - it seems to work! I'll accept it as an answer if you post it on my question.
 
can you come in here and dump a link to your question when it has a perfectly good answer?
no, I don't really think so
 
Well the answer it telling me to change my input types, which i cant since it goes against the questions specifications
 
8:13 PM
then your question is too localized
 
localized?
 
It means "Your question is not a general purpose programming question and the answer would never help anyone else in the future"
for reference, the example design you have posted is utterly disgusting and whoever came up with it should be shot
 
it is a homework question made by my profs lol ... that's why i want to know what im doing to get the error's i am getting
 
Housemate is having a party and now people are pestering me to go upstairs. Not like.
 
1
Q: shared libraries (dlopen) and thread-safety of library static pointers

edA-qa mort-ora-yWhen I load a shared library dynamically, for example with dlopen on linux, do I have to worry about the visibility of the loaded library between processors, or will it be automatically fenced/ensured safe? For example, say I have this function in the loaded library: char const * get_string() {...

will someone explain to this guy that dlopen and lifetime of statics has nothing whatsoever to do with C or C++?
 
8:20 PM
@CatPlusPlus if lot of noise then => one solution is to go with the flow
 
@CatPlusPlus Tell them to fuck off. In my experience, that usually works with the more reasonable people.
@Beginnernato The whole point of "too localized" is that's not my problem. Your homework assignment made by your profs, with your prof's ridiculous specification, is not a general problem, it's your problem.
 
@DeadMG alrite thanks anyway :)
 
Noise is not really a problem if they just don't come down here to my room.
Drank a vodka shot and they went away. Neat.
 
hmmm
I probably shouldn't have requested a font 3435973836 units high
 
That's a lot of units.
 
8:33 PM
@CatPlusPlus ISO units, I presume :)
 
I've no idea what the actual measurement is :P
 
Logical units are hardware dependent, I think.
 
8:46 PM
Bwahaha 16 dorfs -> 42.
Time to save game so that future me can hate future past me.
 
Johannes Brahams?
 
Delete it.
Plx.
 
9:09 PM
I've got a headache :( Not the C++ template kind of headache, but a real headache :(
 
I'm too tired to think.
 
@Pubby Brahms?
@ScottW Doesn't matter. Both are fine on my ignore list :)
 
@FredOverflow eat a painkiller.
 
How bizarre, if I use the single_pass_traversal_tag of Boost.Iterator I trigger some concept errors whereas forward_traversal_tag is fine. The latter being a superset of the former.
 
@sehe Oh, right - only 1 'a'. It's from this: youtube.com/watch?v=kKgBdrsqvjs
 
9:18 PM
@daknøk I'll try listening to Judas Priest first:
 
(:
 
Okay, just swallowed one. I think I'll swallow another, just in case.
@daknøk It is a bit inconsistent that our "sun" is a "star" (different names), but our "moon" is a "moon" (same name).
 
@FredOverflow as long as it's more consistent than PHP it's OK.
 
@Pubby High culture
 
The german terminus technicus for "painkillers" is "Analgetikum", even though most of them are applied orally :)
@daknøk I heard there is a new PHP version out? Are you excited about that?
 
9:24 PM
@FredOverflow no. I hate PHP. :P
 
Oh, I thought that was why you brought PHP up.
Well, hate is a kind of excitement, isn't it? :)
 
probably
 
@FredOverflow Do you care for an explanation for that or would that go in the way of your joke? :p
I'm not saying I'm over anal ysing your joke.
 
@LucDanton There is no explanation on Wikipedia, and I'm too lazy to do further research.
 
@FredOverflow The word is using the prefix an- to mean 'deprived of', as in 'anorexia' (lit. 'without appetite'). Algein (not sure of that spelling) is ancient Greek for pain.
I had trouble coming up with another word using that prefix tbh. Had to look up 'anorexia' to be sure.
 
9:33 PM
We also have "anorganisch" for something that is not organic.
 
@FredOverflow we have that in Dutch too :)
 
That would be 'inorganic' in English and in romance languages in general I expect.
 
an- means not in Dutch, like in- in English.
 
I'm not a chemist, but I think anorganic means without carbohydrates or something? Dunno :)
 
Carbon should be enough I think.
 
9:35 PM
@LucDanton CO2 is inorganic. But yes, you can say that inorganic means "without carbon" with some exceptions.
 
Yes. Carbon is enough to partition stuff into organic and inorganic.
@daknøk I'm curious about the exceptions I must admit.
 
@LucDanton diamond is an exception too. :)
 
Is it? What makes it so? The crystalline structure?
 
not sure
Inorganic chemistry is the branch of chemistry concerned with the properties and behavior of inorganic compounds. This field covers all chemical compounds except the myriad organic compounds (carbon based compounds, usually containing C-H bonds), which are the subjects of organic chemistry. The distinction between the two disciplines is far from absolute, and there is much overlap, most importantly in the sub-discipline of organometallic chemistry. Key concepts Many inorganic compounds are ionic compounds, consisting of cations and anions joined by ionic bonding. Examples of salts (whi...
> The distinction between the two disciplines is far from absolute, and there is much overlap…
 
Ah well.
 
9:39 PM
Is "C-H bonds" the same as "carbohydrates"?
 
No. Carbohydrates are any compounds that consist only of C, H and O atoms, hydrogen:oxygen atom ratio of 2:1. However, there are exceptions to this.
 
> My name is bonds, C. H. bonds.
 
(don't think I'm a chemist)
 
@daknøk Chemics seems to be full of exceptions. Maybe I should study that when I get tired of studying C++ :)
 
@FredOverflow you can also study cheminformatics if you like computers.
 
9:43 PM
@daknøk "If you like computers"? Are you kidding? :)
 
:P
 
I think I'll just earn some money for the next ~10 years and then spend the rest of my life studying various topics until my head explodes.
 
I'm going to study informatics next year in Rotterdam.
Aka I'm going to learn Java and relearn PHP.
 
By the way, when it comes to studying informatics, the question should be "Do you like math?", not "do you like computers?", at least in Germany.
@daknøk That sounds rather practical.
 
I like both so I should be safe I guess… :P
@FredOverflow practical but not fun.
 
9:46 PM
If you want impractical but fun, look into purely functional languages ;-)
 
@FredOverflow I did my last homework assignment for informatics (well, high school level) in Haskell.
 
> Initially, we didn't have any I/O at all, so the whole program was a function from type "string to string".
 
The teacher didn't know how to run the code.
 
Load the code in ghci and then call the function? Or compile with ghc and then run the exe?
 
Yep.
After the teacher came to my I just gave him a precompiled exe :P
 
9:48 PM
Oh wait, you just did in Haskell for fun? It wasn't required?
 
any sys admins around :(
 
@FredOverflow You were allowed to choose any language you liked.
 
Poor teacher. I once did something in Object Pascal, and my teacher had never heard of object-oriented programming :)
 
So I could've done it in Brainfuck.
 
I would have done it in whitespace and handed it in on paper.
 
9:49 PM
I still have the source code.
 
Whitespace is an esoteric programming language developed by Edwin Brady and Chris Morris at the University of Durham (also developers of the Kaya programming language). It was released on 1 April 2003 (April Fool's Day). Its name is a reference to whitespace characters. Unlike most programming languages, which ignore or assign little meaning to most whitespace characters, the Whitespace interpreter ignores any non-whitespace characters. Only spaces, tabs and linefeeds have meaning. An interesting consequence of this property is that a Whitespace program can easily be contained within the ...
 
rofl, I know Whitespace.
Never used it though. Is it Turing complete?
 
dunno
factorial n = product [1..n]
This can be "simplified" to:
 
There is a Whitespace interpreter implemented in Whitespace, so I guess it is.
 
factorial = product . enumFromTo 1
or something
It's pointfree, and the robot loves pointfree :)
By the way, where is @Martinho?
 
9:54 PM
Dunno, he doesn't even appear in the avatar list in the sidebar.
 
Maybe he is rebooting or something.
Hey, the headache is almost gone, thanks to Paracetamol and fennel soup!
 
> Currently reading The Player of Games.
His bio says.
 
What else would a player play besides games?
 
A musical instrument.
 
Women.
 
9:57 PM
Nice ones! I prefer games though.
 
Reminds me of Saw.
> I want to play a game.
 
> Well, as long as it doesn't require Steam, I'm all for it!
 
hehe
 
By the way, there are for too many Saw movies. 1 and 2 would have sufficed.
 
@LucDanton romance languages. Getting on topic here :)
 

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