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1:00 AM
@Lalaland The show me your deleted message thingy? :D
 
No Restart | I like it already.
 
user406009
@nabijaczleweli Nah, its something different. blog.mozilla.org/addons/2015/08/21/… caused backwards incompatible changes.
 
I guess it needs to be poked first.
 
user406009
You need to refresh the page.
 
1:03 AM
Yup, there we go.
 
@Lalaland Hrmmmm, are you gonna port it, or leave it until old versions die and then port it?
 
@sehe night!
@ElimGarak plugged in the matrix are you?
 
user406009
@nabijaczleweli I'll port it.
 
@Lalaland Thank you!
 
@Borgleader Did you like Matrix? I found it hard to like. :/
I mostly like "true" science-fiction like Star Trek.
Star Wars is fun, but it is primarily fantasy.
 
1:08 AM
I don't know where to start on this. All the more reason to try hard and by yourself or you won't pass your course. — Borgleader 7 secs ago
@ElimGarak First one only.
 
@Borgleader nobody likes a tryhard
 
Some people are intimidated psychologically by programming, mathematics and physics. Met some of them.
Usually cannot understand basic things and then get anxiety over it.
One girl started to cry on me while I was trying to tutor her.
5
I don't know what to do with girls who don't cry, let alone those who do. So I just sat there and said it was okay.
Someone should give him some pointers, tho. And a pat on the back.
 
0xDEADBEEF
 
@ElimGarak meh, OP could figure it out if he paid attention in class or did 5 minutes of research
 
Probably. But if it is one of those. Hard to not get annoyed by them because most are lazy asswipes.
 
1:14 AM
I stopped counting the number of homeworks ive seen copy pasted on SO a long time ago
 
And programmers must be good at generalizing shit. And if it quacks like a duck and walks like one...
 
@ElimGarak There was a star trek ad that ran like this IIRC
episode about shape shifters IIRC
 
DS9!
 
actually voyager
DS9 is the one series i havent watched
 
Hmm, shapeshifters in Voy... Demon?
Oh, how I envy you. DS9 is probably the best one!
Great character development, imperfect Federation, "war justifies the means" and shit. Lots of spaceship pew pew.
And Section 31 <3
Section 31 of the Starfleet Charter states that extraordinary measures may be taken in times of war. <3
Also a lot of social commentary on religion, because Bajorans are basically fanatics (better)
 
1:19 AM
@ElimGarak idk, all I remember from the ad was some text say "They might look human, they might smell human but... " and then from behind like a silk cloth you could see the shape of a person but there was an odd ripple
 
@Lalaland, can it capture edits, tho?
And now it is gone.
 
user406009
It theoretically could, but the chat already provides edit history.
 
user406009
So I didn't really see the point.
 
Ah, excellent. there are edits too.
 
@Lalaland edit and remove the message
 
user406009
1:21 AM
Also, showing edit history would require some UI work.
 
will your extension get all the versions of the deleted message?
 
user406009
While showing deleted messages requires almost no work.
 
user406009
@unordered_meow It watches the chat event stream, so it sees all edit and post events.
 
user406009
(Assuming it isn't down at that point in time.)
 
@ElimGarak found it
 
1:23 AM
Ah, species 8472. Yes, they could change shape with special tech, but not shapeshifters per se!
 
@Borgleader 0xFEEEFEEE
 
Do you know what the worst allies on Earth are?
Buoyancy and low-density turds.
 
@ElimGarak Hey, it's been a while :P
I watched that when VHS was still a thing
 
I am rewatching DS9 for who knows which time. Helps me work, as I don't focus on what is happening, but always know where the story is when I look at the screen.
 
I wanna get the remastered version of TNG, but its so expensive :(
 
1:25 AM
Know most of the script by heart of all shows, basically. Big fan.
Yes, it's also takes up a lot of space. And I opted in for SSDs.
So GBs are at a premium.
 
I wonder how much space blu-rays take when compressed with VP9/H.265
 
I think there is one HDD inside, maybe. I can hear it from time to time coming from sleep.
One thing all Star Trek shows need to do is 16:9.
 
@ʞɔᴉN Seriously your duck upside down looks like a different thing.
 
what
 
it looks like a fish to me (one of those round fishes)
 
1:28 AM
@ʞɔᴉN Your avatar.
 
Peanus.
 
@Borgleader But it's an upside down duck.
 
@Nooble i know, i just checked
 
@Nooble well I should certainly hope so
 
@ʞɔᴉN This is what I see.
It's like a ninja.
@ʞɔᴉN It's a ninja I tell you.
 
1:35 AM
lol ok
 
@ʞɔᴉN Don't you "lol ok" me.
It's a ninja!
 
user406009
@Nooble @nabijaczleweli Ok. I think I fixed it in FF 44. addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/stargazer/versions/…
 
user406009
It's not verified yet, so you have to disable signed checking if you want to install it.
 
How do I disable that?
(no, it's not in the security options)
 
user406009
It's xpinstall.signatures.required in about:config.
 
1:39 AM
@Nooble whatever suits your fancy <3
 
Niiiiice
 
user406009
Yay!
 
That response time was unbelievably rapid
Thank you for your service to the nation
 
user406009
The extension is incredibly simple.
 
user406009
Most of the logic is server side.
 
user406009
1:41 AM
And even that is relatively simple.
 
Fuck, it's 3:40 am and I didn't notice
 
is half of this lounge in the same timezone?
 
user406009
I think most people are in europe.
 
So. Much. Work.
It's like digging a deep hole. And then you have to get out and dig another one.
Also, you're doing it underwater.
Wait, that makes going up easy.
Shit.
Molten lava?
 
Ah ok time to work on the game engine for the jam.
 
1:46 AM
For all my ni... folks.
 
Just need to get OBJ model loading working, transparency, and physically-based lighting to work.
In 12 days.
 
And then you can get to implementing an animation engine with dynamic IK solving.
 
@ElimGarak Heh.
 
But very good you're starting young.
What are you going to make?
What kind of geam?
 
@ElimGarak Undetermined. The task right now is just to make an engine.
Ooh also reflections.
 
1:51 AM
Planar reflections or some form of SSR?
 
@ElimGarak What are those D:
 
"Ready to purchase Visual Studio?" WTF, I already own it. Microsoft shaking me down.
 
@ElimGarak There is only one Gaem
 
@Nooble Screenspace reflections, using the data in imagespace with data from the GBuffer to reconstruction position and directional info.
 
@ElimGarak Ah.
No, planar.
 
1:54 AM
Although, I find SSR extremely inconsistent (more so than most people). It is making many modern engines uglier than usual, as they necessarily have to fade out and it looks really poor. Forces designers to reconsider their materials to a point where they won't make noticeable artifacts.
Refined approaches with an acceleration structure based on the depth buffer are kind of okay.
Also, for planar reflections, make sure you pull "in" the coordinates down in projected space. Some mismatch in precision, but you won't have holes. Especially if the reflecting surface is dynamic.
 
For physically based lighting and bloom you'll need to have HDR as well!
 
@ElimGarak Really?
 
Bloom is basically a high pass of HDR lighting info and physically based lighting requires it to look non-flat.
You just make your lights strong (more than 1) and use 16-bit RGBA rendertargets for light accumulation.
That's the simplest approach.
But you'd find that out in your research on bloom, better to know it right away. Otherwise, refactoring.
I remember Oblivion's Gamebryo actually having HDR and Bloom mutually exclusive. Ahaha, jesus.
Also, multi-kernel bloom (different kernel sizes) will help you create natural bloom (but is more compute intense).
 
@Nooble I (hopefully) implemented CSS image preloading tonight
 
2:05 AM
Don't worry about it too much, though, for Epic Games, it took 4 engines to get that right.
 
Still untested, but when I do, imma make yer website not black
 
5 if you count 2.5, whatever that was.
Installing the Windows 10 SDK update for the n-th time. Man, I wish someone would notify me on updates.
 
@ElimGarak Is n >> 1?
 
Yes :( Now it is 10.0.26624
Also a special insider build, 10525 is available.
 
@ElimGarak Why are you using visual studio anyway?
Also blender is nice.
 
2:14 AM
Such a disgrace for humanity
 
Primarily doing work on the Windows platform, also DirectX 12 debugging.
 
ST3 is best editor
lol DX12
 
@nabijaczleweli I prefer cat.
 
@Nooble Why not Katt?
 
@Nooble If you're a student, you can get 3ds max for free (for commercial purposes).
 
2:16 AM
Heard it's gud
 
Also, Maya, MotionBuilder and other shit.
 
@ElimGarak Blender is good though.
Open source too.
 
Indeed, but some cool shit can be done with 3ds max. Also, much more intuitive. Maya on the other hand has great retopo features.
 
And all I really need is .obj export.
 
You can draw the new topology on top of the hi-mesh.
 
2:17 AM
I never was able to comprehend Blender
 
@ElimGarak Intuitive? Examples.
 
(not that I needed to)
 
I don't know, I got used to it, also the industry uses it heavily. Either it or Maya.
I know Mass Effect's assets were built with 3ds max and Zbrush.
 
> he said the people he has interviewed had a hard time articulating how they would code
what the hell does that mean?
"articulating how they would code"
 
I would sit in my chair and use google a lot
 
2:19 AM
I am definitely sure it is simpler than Blender, most people are weirded out by Blender's ways.
 
I just cut 600 emails to 200, second pass tomorrow (well, later today)
 
But one can do great work with Blender as well. However, the simpler tools are preferable. That's how 3ds max and Maya were owned by Zbrush on organic modeling (and now even hard surface), so hard that Autodesk actually developed a response, Mudbox.
 
good night sweet princesses
 
@nabijaczleweli nn
 
nn
 
2:20 AM
nn
 
nicker
 
user406009
@DonLarynx A trap to catch socially anxious people?
 
Oh, man, I get anxious when people mention social anxiety.
 
I wonder how I'll get physically based rendering to work.
 
2:22 AM
@Nooble You will need an energy conserving sBRDF (any will do) and also HDR scene probes preconvolved with said BRDF. Otherwise it doesn't do much.
 
user406009
Hmm, SSR actually sounds pretty cool. Just read through how it works.
 
Also, area lights which can be done analytically. Don't forget to take into account the subtended angle of the light wrt. to the evaluating surface and adjust energy conservation calculations.
 
Also reflections.
Render to texture from perspective of plane, do this for every reflective material?
 
Many ways, some actually rerender the entire scene upside down and compose in a final pass with stencils and during calculations of individual surface points.
To cheapen the compute effort, often only some higher numbered LoD is used for the upside down rendering for reflections (GTA IV does this).
Unreal Engine 4 doesn't feature planar reflections at all, only scene probes which are cubemaps @ 128x128 res.
And fades between SSR and them. (which looks atrocious at times)
You won't see many windowy and high-gloss surfaces used in UE4 games, except maybe for floors and other strategically placed geometry because of the perpendicularity of the surface's normal wrt. to the view direction of the player.
 
user406009
How exactly does the cubemap technique work? You render on the cubemap, and then sample from it?
 
2:31 AM
You render the scene at a very low resolution from the perspective of the sampling point, 6 sides. Then these sides are preconvolved with the specular BRDF, and there is also care taken to remove the seams between different faces (mostly an offline step with duplication) and the convolved data is stored in mip maps, because as your roughness increases, it's blurry anyways.
And then you store it, it's static. And you use it as sort of a representation of the scene at each point in its influence. As it is merely a single point in space, static, as you move, the reflections move with you. In calculations, the reflection vector is used to determine where to sample in it and rougness data is used to determine the miplevel.
It works very well with rougher surfaces, with glossy surfaces, the fake is strong with that one.
One thing it also works well with is highly irregular glossy surfaces, as the human brain cannot determine easily the reflection is wrong. That's why in many games, devs usually crank up the gloss only on curvy surfaces.
If you're wondering what modern games and engines are using for the most important part of the sBRDF (the distribution), they are all on the GGX derivative trains. Here's a paper on it.
 
user406009
Thanks.
 
The paper itself was about something completely different, transmission, but people noticed a nice long tail on the GGX distro (you know when cars have those long streaks of light when it is raining). And folks liked it. One thing the paper does poorly is trying to show a geometric representation of a relevant Jacobian in the equations. It can be far more easily described in more "physical" terms.
And has been, in 1967 paper from Torrance, where it is shown in trivial spherical trigonometry (lends itself well to quantifying the unit hemisphere above the evaluated point).
 
2:50 AM
good morning popeles
 
Mawning.
 
morning
 
I'd like to have a rational conversation with whomever in my ancestry chain figured it would be a GREAT idea to evolve wisdom teeth
 
user406009
I guess a spare might come in handy if you are constantly losing teeth.
 
user406009
Perhaps you should get in more bar fights? /s
 
2:53 AM
Or watch porn.
 
I get in Lounge fights, close enough.
 
user406009
Oh well, time to go to bed.
 
user406009
Goodnight.
 
@sehe good intuition
 
2:58 AM
@MaiLongdong getting mine done next week :(
 
Getting it done?
 
pulling wisdom teeth
 
Oh shit. Never had such issues, can someone explain. Sounds painful, tho.
 
yep, gonna take a few days off
it's a pretty common thing, at least in the US
 
@MaiLongdong They were also saying you were some Cicada or something.
 
3:01 AM
@ElimGarak who said that?
 
Who's Cicada?
 
Well, upstairs.
Apparently, Telkitty says I am "Domagoji", Longdong is some Cicada etc.
 
loungers be crazy
 
Emoji.
 
wasn't cicada the crazy girl boy thingy
I can't follow
 
3:03 AM
some dank meme I think
 
Are memes still a thing?
 
woop woop all markets crashing
everyone buy euros!
 
Wat?
 
Already up 1% since beginning of the day :D
China -8% in 2 hours ahahahahaha
 
USD will always prevail
 
3:06 AM
USD and EUR are so close, I am not even bitching anymore about Steam charging me in EUR.
 
EUR is going up again guis
 
Fuck EUR!
 
@ElimGarak IIRC the reason is tax. All EUR prices include tax, USD prices don't. Or something.
 
So the honorable thing is to recompute the price and match the USD.
 
Yes but :effort:
 
3:09 AM
Games here cost $95 - $100, if you want them boxes. Also, if you buy on PSN.
Apparently, the Windows SDK installer did nothing. Had to modify my Visual Studio installation to catch the latest SDK.
Well, gives me time to take a shit.
Oh, just noticed what Longdong is mentioning.
188 billion dollar crash.
But in the grand scheme of things, a drop in the bucket.
 
It's very funny
Everything going haywire :D
Poor rich popele
 
I think I prefer a life without ever-volatile shares. So, it can crash and burn.
 
volatile shares;
 
I feel like it is all government sanctioned gambling, but hey, not my problem.
Also, my favorite people. Illiterate fucks with strong political opinions. Love it!
 
3:26 AM
@MaiLongdong it will affect "normal" people as well, should it go on long enough
 
Yes it affects everyone, in a more or less pronounced way
 
No animated gifs in oneboxes please (unless it involves Bjarne)
 
Oh, can you remove?
 
1 message moved to bin
 
Thanks.
 
3:32 AM
Swearing is fine and encouraged. But no gifs.
 
Ah, "Animated GIFs are likely to be binned.", so some coding/Bjarne related could pass, but rule of thumb no.
 
> To evaluate
- return V: return return V.
of course ._.
 
"Cannot open include file: 'windows.h': No such file or directory". Great, now the Windows SDK got even more messed up, damn work in progress crap. Wellp, VS2015 reinstall inbound.
 
4:00 AM
@Mysticial That wasn't swearing--just vulgarity.
 
@JerryCoffin Well, swearing is often classified as profanity, but that is obscenity addressed at some religious entity. Vulgarity is an obscenity that doesn't insult a religious entity. The word fuck, or using it, is basically classified as such. Profane / vulgar depending on target.
It has comedic value, though. But usually, it is for the younger generations where immaturity is still somewhat of a factor.
 
I searched deep inside my soul and I could not find this "immaturity" you speak of
 
@ElimGarak Anybody who classifies "obscenity addressed at some religious entity" as "swearing" is too clueless to care about how they classify anything. "Swearing" is asking something (often, but not necessarily, religious) to witness your statement. The primary connection to religion is a spot in the new testament where Jesus gives a direction to just say yes or no--but not to swear to anything.
 
@Nooble good morning
 
 
4:14 AM
@JerryCoffin Oh, man. You do realize the etymology of the word "swear" has had a checkered past? And that it came to have a double meaning in everyday English? Or are you just picking a fight because you're bored?
And vulgarities were initially declared as a religious insults (profanity). To use profane oaths, or curses. And the earliest swears were basically curses. And it latched on?
 
@ElimGarak I'm not picking a fight at all-just stating obvious facts.
 
Not really, you're not stating facts in this particular case. Falsehoods, definitely.
Oh, Last Ship episode is out. Time to watch. Later everyone!
 
4:49 AM
@JerryCoffin Also, if I came off too harsh, I do apologize profusely. I like the things you write, usually. Just in that case, I like etymology quite a bit. No desire to cause harm or pick a fight, so apologies once more.
Well, that was a bit emotionally compromising. Time to restart the computer and reinstall VS.
 
5:01 AM
@ElimGarak Silly you. You should know: anything that @Jerry says whether correct or incorrect, becomes correct.
@ʞɔᴉN Good morning.
 
Wait, you already slept?
 
 
1 hour later…
user1804599
6:14 AM
 
user1804599
dat rings
 
6:45 AM
Yeah they discover that one every 6 months it seems
Also the master switch to aging
Etc etc
 
Actually, many of them are true. But the issue is actually manipulating them. One eventually will. And I'm pretty sure MIT doesn't post shit too often. Would be bad for their rep.
 
Oh I'm not saying they're lying, just that they're being too grandiloquent with the naming.
 
Ah, that's probably the news correspondent's fault. Journalists gonna journal in an obnoxious fashion.
The text is pretty humble and aware of the issues, the quotes at least.
 
Likely
 
"Windows 10 SDK is installed and up-to-date."
No. It's not.
 
6:52 AM
@ElimGarak EZ lift like a beast and eat well
 
@ElimGarak Resistance is futile
@Rerito lol
lift like a beast
 
@MaiLongdong Yes, with grunts and shit
 
I just love when the system is so confident about shit on one side and the other side is saying it cannot find Windows.h.
 
@Rerito It's a functional pun
 
I don't get it
 
6:54 AM
62
Q: Haskell newbie question: What is "lifting"?

GabiMeI don't understand what "lifting" is. Should I first understand Monads before understanding what a "lift" is (I'm completely ignorant about Monads too yet:) ? Or can someone explain it to me with simple words ?

 
Haskell gets a lot of love around here, but what about Erlang?
 
spread the love
everyone can lift
 

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