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9:00 PM
Even PrologA (?) was extended with a 'maybe' result type
 
RARGH PROLOG
 
I had a Prolog class that was all about logic with unknown values. I never imagined there could be so much to say about that.
But it was enough for a whole semester.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Ἀπόδοτε οὖν τὰ Καίσαρος Καίσαρι καὶ τὰ τοῦ Θεοῦ τῷ καθηγητής
 
@sehe Is that like, real Greek and not just English with Greek letters? I don't know Greek.
I only know their alphabet.
 
What. I'll give you 10 seconds.
 
9:03 PM
καὶ sounds like Greek. I think it's "and".
 
(not to recite the alphabet. That shouldn't take longer than 7.23s)
@RMartinhoFernandes çok güzel
 
I don't know Turkish!
Καίσαρι sounds like Cesar.
And Καίσαρος is probably some derivative of Cesar.
Θεοῦ sounds like god.
 
Who needs languages. We have google. 10 seconds were over.
 
That's cheating.
I'm realizing I know more Greek than I thought.
 
Cheating is good for nonsense
@RMartinhoFernandes I'm realizing more nonsense that I should
 
9:07 PM
does it render with Direct3D or OpenGL?
 
@sehe If you wanted me to cheat, you shouldn't have given me a challenge!
 
I gave you a fucking time limit. You couldn't win without cheating.
Anyways, I altered too little of the sentence.
 
fuck it, let's move it move it
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Give the census their due VAT and to the professors their boring semesters
 
@sehe I'm pretty sure that's not what you wrote.
Oh, is that that "Give to Cesar what is Cesar's and to God what is God's" thing from the bible?
 
9:10 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes I'm not about to provide another boring transduction by way of sheepish apology for formerly posted gibberish
 
But I don't know what καθηγητής is.
 
It was supposed to refer to your college/professor (catechese)
 
Ok, I'll google.
 
IOW. college is life-tax, partly
 
So, give to the teacher what is God's?
That sounds weird.
 
9:12 PM
heed:
3 mins ago, by sehe
Anyways, I altered too little of the sentence.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes "Reverend Mother, I have sinned"
@DeadMG Delusional, paranoia? Or are you talking to someone who is still accidentally on my ignore list?
 
to myserlf
 
Oh, part of you is on my ignore list. That explains
 
yes
I have a sock puppet account purely so I can talk to myself
 
sbi
9:21 PM
4 hours ago, by DeadMG
this chat channel is my rubber duck
 
Aw, that's what I should have asked for Christmas. A rubber ducky.
 
Does anyone know how I can link with GCC with a debug version of the CRT?
 
Ell
somebody kill me :'(
 
If there is a debug library it typically has a specific suffix which would be picked up by linking e.g. with g++ -g ....
if you put the link line together yourself you'd pass a -l option with the corresponding suffix.
BTW, which platform are we talking?
 
@DietmarKühl But I'd have to override the automatic link to the standard library, non?
Linux
 
9:28 PM
if there is a dedicated library this should be picked up.
 
Just C
 
@Ell 3niti.org/wiki/index.php?n=Alpha.CodeSnippets see: Universal tritwise operations. Binary has "binary and", "binary or", and "binary xor". When you follow it through, there's also "left", "right", "true", "false", "max", "min" and other truth tables. In trinary, there's 27 tables for one operand, and 19683 for two operands.
 
sbi
@LucDanton Here, have two nice ones:
 
Ell
oh gee
 
same in C. on UNIXes.
it is a while since I saw dedicated debug libraries, though.
 
sbi
9:29 PM
Oh, @Dietmar is here. Schöner Avatar! :)
 
I mean, just saying -g doesn't automatically pick debug versions of all external libraries, does it?
 
well, a long time ago it did ;) I'm not sure why it doesn't anymore. possibly because debug symbols are always retained even in optimized builds.
 
@KerrekSB No, that's for the code being generated.
 
@sbi: thank you. couldn't come up with something better and it good enough. People hopefully judge me by my responses ;)
 
@LucDanton That's what I thought
 
9:32 PM
@LucDanton: I'm pretty sure that the -p and -g options would be used by the linker to choose libraries.
 
@sehe He frequently talks through his problems here. Dunno why, but he only seems to do it when chat is slow thus far, so I just listen and wonder.
 
I have some spurious dlopen leaks in my _start() function, which I strongly suspect to come from some other library. All I want is to find out who's being dlopened.
 
sbi
@DietmarKühl Re judging: Be prepared that everyone here's a twenty-something. You, me, @Alf, and @JerryCoffin are old farts here. :-/ This is not at all as in clc++m.
 
@DietmarKühl Perhaps that's system dependent? From the little I know of Debian-based distros, there is only one canonical library and the debug symbols come separately. There is nothing else to link to.
(Also I don't know about -p.)
 
@MooingDuck: did you see my little investigation on your performance problem?
 
9:34 PM
@LucDanton That's for the profiler
 
@sbi: well, I might live with a bit of abuse. I think I can stand it!
 
sbi
@DietmarKühl :)
Oh, and what I always wanted to do:
@Dietmar, since you are new here, you might want to read the newbie hints (also linked from the right-hand panel). :D
 
I'm currently looking at "info gcc" which, put bluntly, censored!
 
@DietmarKühl hadn't refreshed the page recently enough.
 
so.. I have libc6-dbg, aka "detached debugging symbols", installed.
 
9:35 PM
@KerrekSB Oh hey, that does ring a bell >.>
 
@sbi: :)
haven't come around to read the page, yet....
 
Maybe I'm overthinking things. I might in fact already be using the debug symbols, and just hitting some optimization problems. Lots of function arguments appear as <optimized out>.
So it's not so much a problem of needing the debug symbols for libc, but rather of getting a dedicated debug build.
 
@DietmarKühl but the comparator is taking std::pair<key_type const, mapped_type> as argument oh.... my... gosh...
 
this name doesn't look like one which would be recognized as a library with debug symbols by the compiler.
 
No. The files are, like, /usr/lib/debug/lib/libc-2.11.1.so
 
9:38 PM
@MooingDuck: it is a bit subtle to find this one. So far I did only source gazing (and a bit of testing things). There must be more.
well, .so are shared libraries.
 
@DietmarKühl Shared is fine
 
what you probably can do if your program is linked shared, is to tweak the LD_LIBRARY_PATH to pick up a shared debug version.
(maybe this is actually the reason they don't do the debug libraries anymore)
 
@DietmarKühl Hm, that's one option...
 
@sbi: since you mentioned clc++m: were you active there with a recognized name? Admittedly, I don't recognize sbi although maybe I should...
 
@KerrekSB platform? On linux that'd be a strace job. And possibly a valgrind job
 
9:47 PM
@sehe: how so? this wouldn't provide the information need to single step through a program while it would be something supported by a proper debug build.
That said - I wouldn't bother to step into the standard library implementation (well, unless it happened to be one I'm working on).
 
15 mins ago, by Kerrek SB
I have some spurious dlopen leaks in my _start() function, which I strongly suspect to come from some other library. All I want is to find out who's being dlopened.
 
It is a good guess that it is correct and if something goes wrong it isn't caused by the standard library.
 
@sehe Valgrind is what's giving me the leak warnings in the first place.
 
Judging from that, you don't want to singlestep into anything (yet). You want to know what syscalls are made when (including by external libraries).
 
9:48 PM
@sehe: er, yes - this is indeed a job for strace.
 
But it's full of question marks
 
@KerrekSB Have you posted to SO yet?
 
Is this the Objective-C room?
 
@KerrekSB let's see when gcc folks fix it
 
@DietmarKühl It'd be enough to get the arguments of the dlopen, I think...
@sehe No, this is far too "localized" :-)
 
9:49 PM
Hi
 
@JohannesSchaublitb I'll believe it when I GCC it.
2
 
@Moshe No
 
Lol, I know.
 
I could post to ask about linking against the debug libraries, though.
 
@KerrekSB: sure: strace program arguments | grep dlopen
 
9:50 PM
Ah:
2
Q: How do I tell gcc (or ld) to link against debug versions of the standard c and c++ libraries

Jonathan FischoffI have debug versions of libstdc++ and libc, among others, and would like to link against them. They live in /usr/lib/debug as opposed to /usr/lib. Any ideas?

 
What's up with those Objective-C jokes ?
 
@KerrekSB Forget about that. You request help, the chat isn't really the most suited vehicle for all the details. Just post it, and let the community decide the value for the community
 
There isn't anything funny about Objective-C
 
isn't dlopen purely user-space?
 
@KerrekSB: you might want to redirect standard error, though. I rarely use strace and keep forgetting where it writes its output to.
 
9:51 PM
folks
teeth hurt
 
@DietmarKühl OK, let me try strace first, and if that doesn't work, I'll make a post about linking with debug libraries.
 
@kbok This room is the most active, yet ObjC is a popular topic. Many people pop in to get help and the regulars here (I'm not one) get annoyed.
 
@Moshe: well, I can tell you that I got bad feedback because I rejected articles e.g. about C# from comp.lang.c++.moderated because "there is no active C# forum and there are many people here" (although it is a few years that this happened with C#).
 
@Moshe Oh. I'd thought all this iPhone fanboy base would have calmed down by 2012.
Wait, there isn't a room for Objective-C ?
 
@JohannesSchaublitb good point, so make that ltrace -e dlopen ./myprogram (output will be to stderr) (@KerrekSB)
 
9:57 PM
@kbok Hey, you're talking to an iOS dev. Watch it. ;-)
 
there is
 
@kbok That never stopped people.
 
but in reality, this is one of the very few actually active rooms
so people come here just because there's people here
 
A few people come here to ask C questions for the same reason.
I even recall seeing a Java question in this chatroom once.
 
@Moshe Hah, no offense intended :p
 
Ell
9:58 PM
yeah i wish more perople were in the other rooms
 
I think we're victims of our own success.
2
 
@EtiennedeMartel well, that's a bit more tricky - after all the C stuff also applies to C++.
 
@DietmarKühl No, not really. At all.
 
@kbok: s/no// ?
 
@DietmarKühl No.
 
9:59 PM
And ObjC runs C++ too.
 
@DietmarKühl only in sytax and not always then
 
@EtiennedeMartel Well, a great majority of us would be able to answer C questions.
 
I'm going to say "no" as well. Everyone is doing it.
 
Some moron who has a problem with strtok or NULL-terminated strings? definitely not
 
Well, in theory.
 
9:59 PM
shhht! avoid to rage the fanbois.
 
in my opinion
 
@Moshe That's Objective-C++.
 
sbi
Yes, I was there for probably a decade, under my real name. I suppose you moderated a lot of my postings. You wouldn't know "sbi", though. (And that's the point of it, really: I decided to stop feeding google with my personal information a few years back.) Also, more than a decade ago we had a beer or two (or three..) together in Erfurt, with Erwin Unruh, Nicolai Josuttis, and a few others. And a few years ago, during the Berlin meeting, we were at a pub with Alisdair and another guy whose name I forgot. But I was just one of the guys in the background, and you wouldn't remember my name.
 
there's nothing wrong with discussing other technologies here
 
@kbok Not necessarily. I mean, I can write C, but every once in a while I try to answer a C question only to discover that something that is true in C++ isn't always so in C.
 
10:00 PM
but I don't appreciate people discussing other things just because the appropriate place is empty
 
@DeadMG Lol, I know.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes And it's weird.
 
@EtiennedeMartel yeah, that was visible all the way from Los Alamos
 
the other thing is
 
I was more frequently here last semester, when I was taking intro to programming with C++.
 
10:01 PM
it's my natural instinct to move all the things to the bin
but I know the other room owners look down on such things
 
Next semester is Advanced Programming, also C++.
 
@sbi I resemble that remark!
 
@EtiennedeMartel True, but I can understand why people would want to ask C questions here.
 
@JerryCoffin resemble or resent?
 
Haha, and now it is @sbi who falls prey to the beast of multiline Markdown.
 
10:02 PM
evening elders
 
@kbok I can't.
unless it's just being ignorant
@RMartinhoFernandes hahaha nice
 
@kbok I can as well. Doesn't mean they're right.
 
@EtiennedeMartel I agree.
 
I haven't fallen pray to TVTropes yet today :)
 
sbi
@JerryCoffin You reply to a message of mine that has the length of a novella and claim to resent "the remark". What am I to make of this?
 
10:02 PM
@DeadMG Just look at all those people who write "C/C++" as if it was a single language.
 
@Moshe Hopefully you don't think that's an exclusive or.
 
58 secs ago, by DeadMG
unless it's just being ignorant
 
@sbi I didn't say a think about resenting anything.
 
@sbi he said "resemble"
 
@sbi Despite having failed to say so, I do sometimes resent being an old fart though.
 
sbi
10:04 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes Actually, I fell prey to it before most of you ever did: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/70141/…
 
@sbi "Markdown fucked me up before it was cool"
2
 
sbi
@JerryCoffin OMG! I totally read this as "resent".
 
lol
 
@JerryCoffin well, you're smart, that's the important bit
 
sbi
@JerryCoffin Now I will have to think about the meaning of "resembling a remark". I can't make head nor tail of it.
 
10:05 PM
@TonyTheLion There's nothing worse than stupid old farts, right?
 
sbi
@EtiennedeMartel Yep. I'm The Grumpy Old Man. I predate coolness.
@RMartinhoFernandes LOL!
 
@sbi Looks like you're the "Grumpy Old Hipster".
 
@RMartinhoFernandes stupid is annoying yes
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Yes, they smell horrible.
 
sbi
@EtiennedeMartel Haha! Shall I ask my teenage daughter whether she agrees with me being hip? :)
 
10:07 PM
no sure if @sbi is hip... :P
 
He probably has two hips.
 
Hum
 
(ba-dum-tish)
 
Does it make sense to compile C++ with -ansi ?
 
10:08 PM
lulz
is there ANSI C++
 
@EtiennedeMartel prolly not too high yet
 
@kbok Yes, it disables GCC extensions (mostly).
 
?
thought that was only C
 
@RMartinhoFernandes So, Bad Naming™ ?
 
sbi
@TonyTheLion I am absolutely sure that my daughter is absolutely sure about me not being hip at all. :) She might think I'm cool , though. :)
 
10:09 PM
why do you think that the ANSI C++ release is called "C" ?
 
@sbi well you're a geek. Haven't met many hip geeks. I don't think I'm that hip either. LOL
 
sbi
The C++ standard even is an international standard, so he should probably try -iso instead. :-/
 
i'm dead ugly. anti hip
 
@kbok > In C mode, this is equivalent to -std=c90. In C++ mode, it is equivalent to -std=c++98.
 
Don't use -ansi, use -std.
 
10:11 PM
@JohannesSchaublitb I can't imagine a hipster studying the C++ standard. :P
 
You probably want -std=c++0x nowadays, or -std=c++11 in the future.
 
@JohannesSchaublitb Nah, I'm sure you're handsome.
 
I think it's -std=c++11 now
 
but... beauty is in the eye of the beholder
 
@DeadMG No, only in the future (GCC 4.7)
 
sbi
10:12 PM
@JohannesSchaublitb You look like the early Beatles. I am too slow to follow fashion, but isn't that hip nowadays?
 
I'm in the future right now.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Isn't the C++98 standard from ISO ?
 
@kbok Yes, it's a bad naming.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Ok, thanks.
 
oh yea, I'm going to be a hipster, I'm gonna grow my hair long :P
lulz
 
sbi
10:13 PM
@JohannesSchaublitb And what about handsomeness? :b
 
@JohannesSchaublitb Yes, my eyes are really beautiful.
 
lemme check up
 
sbi
@TonyTheLion You're a lion, you're supposed to have a mane!1
 
10:13 PM
wanna play with ur lambda
 
Sounds like this.
 
@TonyTheLion You're going to need a moustache. And ugly glasses.
 
Ugly glasses are so mainstream.
 
@JohannesSchaublitb Stay away from my lambda.
 
sbi
10:15 PM
@Tony: It's been clean here for hours, and it only took you 13mins to make this discussion deteriorate into bad topics. How do you do this?
 
your lambda with a touch of curry from your gewürzgarten
 
I don't want to know what a gewürzgarten is.
 
sbi
I herewith propose Lounge<C++>.moderated.
 
@sbi No. Our lack of decorum is what makes us unique.
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes A herb garden. Literally, anyway.
 
10:17 PM
Moderators on that would go full insane.
 
sbi
@EtiennedeMartel No, I lack that everywhere else, too.
 
@sbi I said I didn't want to know. But apparently it's not as bad as I thought.
 
@EtiennedeMartel You honestly believe lack of decorum is unique?
 
@JerryCoffin I meant it's what made the Lounge unique.
 
sbi
@JerryCoffin He's a Canadian French. What do you expect?
 
Xeo
10:18 PM
I have the sudden urge to set the topic to "Fuck the meta-police!"
 
You can hardly go lower than "Canadian French".
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes I can. :^)
 
Tabarnack.
 
sips his roiboos vanille tea
 
sbi
@EtiennedeMartel Schabernack!
 
10:20 PM
quatsch mit soße
 
Oh, look what I found in RSS.
 
There we go, gibberish.
 
Strangely relevant.
 
sbi
@JohannesSchaublitb You know, I'm into my second beer. (and had to restrain myself real hard to not to do what @Xeo proposed).
 
Xeo
10:21 PM
Oh, I know an even better topic
 
please don't go alcohol way. better take your teas
come have a tea party
 
Xeo
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: Bra*nfuck the meta-police! [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq]
 
Xeo
I mean, can't say anything against "fuck" in a language name, right? I remember that discussion on Meta
 
10:22 PM
@Xeo It's ok, you censored the offensive language name anyway.
 
Xeo
Yes, I'm a Good Boy™.
 
sbi
@Xeo But you didn't remember the outcome. The zealots really think they won this one. I disagree, but it's not that we won it either.
 
I think this deserves a gold badge. What do you think? 7 more votes?
16
A: What is the difference between "\r" and "\n"?

dreamlaxThe difference between '\r' and '\n' is 3.

 
sbi
@JohannesSchaublitb I hadn't had a beer in days, so I reserve the right to have two of them tonight.
@Mysticial 2 more.
 
10:25 PM
@sbi It needs to hit 23.
 
sbi
@Mysticial Oops. Which badge would that be?
 
starting from the 3rd beer brain cells will die
 
@sbi Populist
 
You've got hundreds of them anyway.
 
sbi
10:26 PM
@JohannesSchaublitb I rarely drink more than 2. :)
@CatPlusPlus No. Don't talk about things you couldn't possibly know. There's only three more beers in my fridge.
 
You program in C++ and you're worried about losing your brain cells to alcohol?
 
My brain cells were liquefied by PHP years ago.
 
sbi
@Mysticial Well, so it's 3 more now. :)
 
@CatPlusPlus Good, now you can drink them to offset the harm alcohol does to you!
 
sbi
10:29 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes Damn, I ran out of stars! ("You have fully used your vote allowance for today") Would someone please star that for me?
 
@sbi Havastar. (Please star my GCC comment in return?)
 
Xeo
1
Q: dynamic allocation of rows of 2D array in c++

sidharth sharmaIn c++, I can create a 2D array with fixed number of columns, say 5, as follows: char (*c)[5]; then I can allocate memory for rows as follows c = new char[n][5]; where n can be any variable which can be assigned value even at run time. I would like to know whether and how can I dynamically ...

Stupid question number whatisitnowtoday?
 
Ugh, someone is metastarring.
 
Ell
ughhh stupid ruby wont deserialize! for no good reason!
 
sbi
10:30 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes Yeah, I saw that it was you. I could've done the same, actually, but I didn't want to be that bold. Well, those robots...
 
Xeo
@sbi You're The Grumpy Old Man and still get allowance?
 
metastarring ftw!
 
sbi
@Xeo Braver Junge! :)
 
He ran out of uppercase letters.
 
10:31 PM
meh
 
@sbi what did I say to make dirty topics?
 
@Xeo Arrgh, more 2d arrays.
 
sbi
@TonyTheLion I was asking you!
 
Xeo
@CatPlusPlus Yeah, my uppercase allowance ran out, so I begged for an advance.
 
10:33 PM
@sbi I haven't a clue... I'm just being me
 
Xeo
@RMartinhoFernandes And @Kerrek even answered it! SHAME ON YOU!
 
@sehe Thanks!
 
@KerrekSB It's well-defined in Java.
 
sbi
@TonyTheLion That's probably it. You're bound to invoke dirty topics by your mere presence. (Have you tried this on girls yet?)
 
@Xeo Sorry, I was waiting for Valgrind... that sometimes makes me answer questions.
@RMartinhoFernandes I'm sure it is -- that's why it's an interesting twist
 
10:35 PM
@sbi no, I am the most horrific person with girls. I absolutely suck at it
 
@KerrekSB I'm surprised there are no answers yet (wrongly) claiming that i++ returns the value before incrementing.
 
sbi
@TonyTheLion Well, you shouldn't start to suck them right away. Some conversation before-hand is required.
 
Damn, I was going to say that.
 
oh god...
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Gasp! Doesn't it do that in Java?!
 
10:36 PM
@TonyTheLion Listen to what @sbi says.
 
we're talking dirty again
I'm gonna go read PornTropes...
 
It's solid advice.
 
oh I mean TVTropes
 
@sbi No. It increments before returning the old value. It's a subtle distinction but important.
 
sbi
@TonyTheLion Yeah. This time it only took you 5mins!
@RMartinhoFernandes OMG! How could they do that?! Is there a distinction between ++i and i++ In Java?
 
10:38 PM
@sbi Yes.
 
@sbi wow, next time, it will be in one line
:P
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Sigh. So what is it?
 
@sbi i++ returns the old value, ++i returns the new one. Like C++.
 
Xeo
@sbi ++i returns the value before the increment!
@RMartinhoFernandes Wait a second
@RMartinhoFernandes How is that different from C++? We also increment before returning the old value..
 
sbi
Now I am confused. What is the difference between Java and C++ then, with i++?
 
10:40 PM
@Xeo I never said it was different from C++.
I don't know why you thought so.
 
the one is Java and the other C++, simple
 
@sbi One gets your question destroyed with prejudice. The other earns you 100 upvotes and a gold badge.
 
sbi
@Mysticial I wasn't asking about SO, I was asking about the core language(s).
 
I only said that it does the increment before producing a value. Some people like to say that i++ produces the value before incrementing. That's wrong. ideone.com/xOIDU
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Damn, I again misread that!
Well, my alarm goes off in little more than 6 hours, so I'd probably better go to bed anyway.
 
Xeo
10:45 PM
The robot is producing complicated strings on purpose today! They're so difficult to parse!
 
sbi
Good night everybody!
 
Just look at the question that got linked as a dupe. I have like 5 or 6 downvotes on the answers there.
 
Xeo
Huh, it's already 12pm? :o
 
@sbi Good night.
 
Xeo
g'night, ape.
 
10:45 PM
@Xeo And you're not on TVTropes!
 
Xeo
I'm on SO. It's not that much better as I noticed.
 
TVTropes is better.
 
@Xeo But on SO you're helping people, and possibly learning something. You don't run any of those risks on TVTropes.
 
Xeo
@CatPlusPlus For what?
 
In general. It's more fun.
 
Xeo
10:47 PM
Wasting your time or... ?
 
No same stupid old questions repeated ad nauseam, for one.
 
Xeo
@CatPlusPlus But same old tropes clicked again and again.
Anyways, I'm gonna follow the ape for now.
G'night everyone.
 

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