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03:33
@CatPlusPlus lol, no
03:48
I can't seem to pull from github
ddos?
yep
@orlp H'oh man.
I wonder who would DDOS github?
Who can Github possibly piss off?
I don't know
it's just sad
@Mysticial Maybe someone pushing a VERY BIG commit
I can totally understand why SE would get DDOS'ed. But Github? Come on...
@ParkYoung-Bae Fuck... I shouldn't have pushed that 10 trillion digits of Pi.
03:54
@Mysticial bitbucket?
lol
So...
Are tuples simply just
template<class... T>
class Tuple; ?
with such an oversimplification you should know the answer will be 'no'
but I'm not falling for the help vampire, sorry, not helping further
No. They also contain values.
Of course, but the Coliru example has like three different declarations of the same class and I don't know why it needs 3.
I'm reading up on it...
> })end"_sv,
actual C++ fragment
04:04
@LucDanton why is that so surprising?
it looks disgusting is all
@LucDanton then don't ever go to codegolf.stackexchange.com
K.K
K.K
04:52
Good Morning Everyone :)
05:02
@LucDanton Nice
 
1 hour later…
06:10
TIL rot13("opencl") = "bcrapy"
What a wonderful coincidence
07:02
Man, the Internet at Amsterdam airport sucks.
Go to aisle D they have free consoles
You're in Schiphol?
There are freely available console stands (xbox, whatever)
IS THAT NOT AMAZING?
07:06
Because hunger
@ParkYoung-Bae really?
07:21
I want to return a handle to an object from a function. The receiver is not responsible for object lifetime management. Two straightforward ways I see of doing this are with a reference or a pointer. I rarely see references returned for this purpose... (maybe because you can't easily store references in containers?). What do you all prefer? A pointer 'feels' better to me, but then someone can call delete on the pointer.
You can delete with a reference, i.e. delete &blah. There is no protecting against Machiavelli.
@Pris lol references.
@Cinch What's funny about references?
You tell me! I don't get the semantics for references if you want to do memory management like this, so...
Why do you want the handle?
@LucDanton Yeah, but I'm not out to protect against malicious intent. Most people don't delete references. Deleting pointers is common though. I can see people assuming ownership and calling delete nonchalantly
07:24
@Pris If you’ve used iterators and e.g. std::vector then you have seen operators that return references, i.e. the typical operator* and operator[]. If that’s any help.
@Pris Then create a wrapper that doesn't have delete.
If you tell us more about the application we can probably help you better.
@Pris This alleged nonchalantness is very much Machiavelli. Consider the plain C-style string const char*. Those aren’t deleted very often.
My point being that everyone already makes an effort to figure out what is up for deletion, and what isn’t.
(My personal preference still being that nothing is up for deletion in my programs. So that’s even faster to figure out.)
@Rapptz Do not tempt me
07:28
It's pretty bad.
Hm.
@Pris Like I said, if you don't tell us how it will exactly be used, it will be hard to make a judgement.
> Also C will let you do almost anything you want. For example. An array reference is a symmetric operation. So when you type arr[2] it doesn't actually matter whats in the bracket and what is in front of the bracket, therefore in C you can actually do 2[arr] to reference the array. Higher level languages won't let you do that.
Very good start
It actually gets worse
Herb needs to be on Reddit to answer these stuff.
07:30
Had to close tab as soon as the OP started talking about strings.
TIL the distinction between high-level and low-level languages lies in the commutativity of array subscript
5GL!!!
This guy has not done C++
Now back to work there are templates to be written
> Now, this isn't unique to C++, lots of other languages have features that would allow you to be deceptive like this. However, C++ has a particularly bad culture of operator abuse, owing to its half-assed implementation of custom infix operators. It's pretty telling when the "Hello, World!" program, as it's typically written, contains a really blatant example of operator abuse.
People dont use words "high/low level languages" correctly
07:32
@Cinch Its just a general consideration when building an API. I don't think there needs to be many details outside of "I want to return a handle that does not convey lifetime management". I think I'll stick with pointers
I should try SFML again. See if I hate it less.
@Rapptz Hey! I know! He's talking about operator<< which is blatant half-assed infix custom operator implementation abuse!
His example of deception was a = b + c;
I'm gonna create the People for Ethical Treatment of Operators. Who's with me?
@Pris What would it mean if your function were to return nullptr?
07:33
I read some reddit post recently I think that ripped SFML apart, especially how it handles OpenGL objects and stuff in a really wasteful way with extra copies and all
I've never seen these operators abused in my life.
It's always brought up as an example though.
Not the language's fault either.
Bugs me.
@Rapptz The only unique operator usage I've seen is containers in Qt can add elements with "<<"
@Rapptz My C++ teacher mentioned a bank account type as a good candidate for an overloaded operator+.
I see operator<< abused a lot.
QStringList list;
list << QString("Hello");
list << QString("World");
07:35
@LucDanton I don't see that as abuse.
@Pris That's terrible.
Reminds me of that proposal to add overloading on operator.
I overload operator+ for my custom numeric types.
@Rapptz Only unintuitive for a bank account type.
@Rapptz What’s the result of adding together, say, a bank account and an amount of money?
07:35
I actually kind of like it to tbh
@LucDanton Depositing the amount of money?
Likewise subtraction would be withdrawal.
I mean it's not that weird and it isn't exactly optimal but I wouldn't call it abusing.
+=/-= would make more sense.
@LucDanton What's the result of adding together a point and a vector?
@Rapptz What type does that have? (I meant result literally.)
A new copy of a bank account?
Why you'd want a copy I can't explain but it's consistent with the language.
Maybe you want to store a temporary bank account object with the calculation and do something in the interim, iunno. Still don't find it that weird.
07:38
Aw man, I want to talk to all my friends but they're all asleep because it's still night back there.
Happy 3:38 AM.
> all my friends
That would be quick regardless of timezone
It's 8:38 here.
@Rapptz The way the teacher presented it, he clearly intended += semantics. Yet it was operator+.
Also, there's a store that sells tulips in the airport. Because of course there is.
07:40
Same teacher that did return *new whatevs…; btw, the excuse was 'well that’s what happens when you have a language without automatic memory management'.
lol
the famous memory leak operator
good C++ teachers are hard to find
RIP
Did you guys have good programming teachers in uni?
(I should note that this was an OOP class, not C++ specifically. The class mainly used Java with some C++ parallels. Which I’m fairly sure the teacher more or less had to have in the curriculum, and didn’t really care for.)
God, I hate my code. Every time I have to work on one shitty class I wrote, I start to hate my job
07:42
@Pris Yeah. Except that one. Just that one, really.
@Rapptz You make me sad.
Sucks.
@Pris Some of them were good, a few very good. The rest mostly terrible at programming, but good in their field.
My intro programming course used C++... it was basically C with classes and no templates. The prof was pretty good though. My data structures prof just copied course slides and notes from other university sites and read them aloud in lecture
Have I complained about my previous C++ teacher yet
07:43
@Pris Intro? What were the students expected to know by that point?
@Pris I didn't learn programming in school but I helped teach a class for 2 semesters.
@ParkYoung-Bae No, please regale us with stories
@Pris What do you mean "Did?"
@LucDanton Absolutely nothing about programming. Lots of people failed iirc.
A student: "prof, what's the difference between int foo() const and const int foo()?" Prof: "Uh, probably some syntax difference for the same thing, really." Me: rage intensifies
07:45
@Pris Same thing here, except my teacher knows but is just dealing with the fact that the flow for programming here at my 4year is just done badly.
@ParkYoung-Bae Oh yeah that rings a bell.
@ParkYoung-Bae OH MY GOD.
Also the exam: "What does the following program output? void main() ..."
@ParkYoung-Bae He's quite correct though in a practical sense.
But no, really, I bet that you just can't ever delete a const int. In fact, if you return it, I'm sure that you're actually returning an actual math constant, which means that if you return an integrate(int) foo(), you'll get (const int)^2 * (1/2)
07:46
@ParkYoung-Bae I think that prof taught us the 'right' way to read const if you ever get confused is to work from the left... pretty handy.
I heard some storied from my previous boss. He was saying, his teacher was teaching them to use one character varibale names, like: "a", "b", "c"
@MarkGarcia Hm?
Of course we call C++ const because if you take their derivative, in binary, it's 0.
C++ is the best language because we can take derivatives so easily and no other language can do that.
@khajvah It's there to teach you of the basics before you go to more advanced variable naming.
@ParkYoung-Bae Man... forget the void main() thing, the exam questions where they ask you to trace output were the WORST. Like, deliberately code golf tier stuff that you'd never see anyone write just for kicks... ugh
07:47
@ParkYoung-Bae It wouldn't matter to the caller (that is, for built-in types).
@ParkYoung-Bae I know you’ve made jokes about the use of OCaml in academia etc., but did you actually go that route?
@Pris You're still not being clear with your answer, btw. Framework as in SDL or SFML?
I have horror stories from a teaching perspective but not a learning one.
:(
@Cinch what?
@LucDanton Yes we used ocaml and prolog extensively (we did more prolog than C++, no fake)
07:48
@Pris Your pointer to reference example.
Oh right.
I do like OCaml but abuse of prolog has left me a little scarred
I have to build SFML
@Rapptz I've had friends that were TAs... plenty of nightmare stories marking code assignments
@Rapptz No you don't silly you have to bulk it.
07:49
@Cinch what? I didn't mention anything about a framework did I?
grr cmake
@Pris okay, API.
@ParkYoung-Bae Same here, at least in terms of classes taught, since C++ only appeared as an aside in the OOP course. You could choose to do the OOP project in C++ though.
@Rapptz Is it really that bad?
I despise it
07:50
@LucDanton At least they didn't claim to teach it.
@Rapptz Why?
oh sure
@Cinch yes... an API. Like a function that returns either a pointer or a reference.
@Rapptz 't' is next to 's'. :P
@Pris ...
Sorry, did I just hear that an API = factory function?
No.
That part was in your head.
07:51
@MarkGarcia I'm not sure I understand. foo is a method.
Yesh, I'm delusional.
But what kind of API?
Do you expect them to destroy it?
@Cinch that’s what you think!
@LucDanton Marry me.
If a delusional person thinks they are delusional, are they?
@Cinch Babysit me.
07:53
Alright done compiling and linking.
true fun
@Pris Yes, because they're still seeing or imagining things.
Whether they think they are or not doesn't matter
@Rapptz So... what's the big complaint?
@ParkYoung-Bae Oh my. I read it as const int foo() vs int foo(). My fault. No, his fault! I wouldn't have made the mistake if not for his fault first!
Also hey, what do you guys think about this?
time for groceries
@Cinch I can't access github
07:55
@khajvah Well I can.
What a surprise. I can too.
nevermind, it worked. They are probably still recovering from DDOS
@khajvah You're in India?
@khajvah OIC
07:56
@MarkGarcia p sure they lifted the ban
silly indian gubmint
@MarkGarcia lol
@Cinch My brother once used it. It's decent based on my observations of his behavior at that time.
@MarkGarcia As in he didn’t explode in a fit of rage?
I wrote some code for personal use but I didn't put it on github. Should I feel guilty/antisocial?
Likewise I ate a cake without shooting a photo at it on facebook.
@MarkGarcia what does that stand for?
08:00
@MarcoA. YESTERDAY I TOOK A SHIT POSTED IT ON TWEETER AND GOT 88 RETWEETS it feels good to be alived and loved
@LucDanton I seem to recall once though, when he's trying to implement some jQuery style DOM manipulation in Lua for libRocket. I wouldn't blame either one for the rage though. :)
@khajvah "Oh I See" (now quick, make a clever reply!)
@MarkGarcia Can't think of anything, buddy
Anyone ever notice how opening an issue for a github project marks you as a contributor for that project?
Like, I could go around posting issues like "your project sucks!" and build up my contrib count
Technically, you are contributing.
I don't think you should get contrib status unless you submit a pull request
08:07
You should get some credit for taking your time and reporting an issue
I don't necessarily agree with libRocket's CSS, but it's interesting and it's a way to do things.
@MarcoA. Shoulda forked it on github. smh
Hm.
Building libRocket right now.
Also I had my first experience with Javascript today for real.
It was... interesting.
Weird.
For a minute I thought you were Pawnguy.
How do you type the mu symbol on qwerty help
08:16
QML is great. It should be used more often.
XML is great. It should be used more often.
@khajvah I love QML, its amazing
@ParkYoung-Bae μ ctrl + c, ctrl + v.
XML is a piece of crap.
4
@Columbo really?
08:17
It's a mountain of crap.
@Cinch (I dunno, but usually you're good off calling everything in computing crap that isn't famous for not being crap)
@ParkYoung-Bae AltGr+m
mµµµµµµµµµ
user1804599
Ghello, ghworld!
@Columbo You are good off calling everything crap because everything is crap in coumputing.
@khajvah *90%
@khajvah Including your spelling
Or your keyboard
08:21
lol
@Rapptz Thanks
@khajvah I'm afraid to tell you this but, it won't always be the magic it is once you use Qt Quick Controls. :(
@Griwes Thank µ
user1804599
Alright, let's implement multithreading in my VM this evening.
user1804599
Is there really no good C++ thread pooling library?
08:24
Yes
@райтфолд nope
They're crap
lol poco
let's write one
@ParkYoung-Bae I retweeted that. Remembers me of XML (see transcript)
user1804599
08:25
I'll try this library out.
@ParkYoung-Bae Good joke pretending that granting µ prime layout real estate is a feature.
user1804599
With some Boost.Coroutine stuff!!!
@LucDanton My azerty had it
@райтфолд I sometimes use boost::thread_group + boost::asio::io_service (and strands if required)
user1804599
@StackedCrooked I'd rather not implement it myself.
user1804599
08:27
> If the [demand] for threads increases, additional threads are created. Once the demand for threads sinks again, no-longer used threads are stopped and removed from the pool.
user1804599
Perhaps I want this.
@ParkYoung-Bae I get it’s an extra key compared to qwerty but did it have to be filled with garbage?
the designers clearly spent 0 µs thinking about it.
µ sµck
hm.
libRocket...
@райтфолд Is baka any good? Unbiased opinion, please
08:31
YAY libRocket built.
user1804599
@khajvah Yes, but I'm biased.
user1804599
Its API is unstable.
user1804599
And seeking is still not supported, and read_full loops infinitely on EOF.
@ParkYoung-Bae µTorrent sµck
@райтфолд Do you use it?
user1804599
08:33
I use it in Mill.
alright, I will test it one day.
user1804599
I am actually looking for a proper exception library
user1804599
That's not Baka.
@райтфолд it has it inside right?
user1804599
08:35
What?
It has exception handling ?
user1804599
Uh, C++ already has exception handling.
user1804599
You don't need a library for that.
I don't use if I don't have to. I don't like it
@khajvah That'll cause you problems.
For example, Android supposedly supports exceptions from std::exception.
Support for other types is iffy, I hear.
user1804599
08:39
C++ incompetence detected.
My detector is off the charts
@райтфолд maybe
OTOH I'm stealing that as "good troll"
user1804599
@khajvah certainly
@райтфолд Whatever
08:44
Every time I come to pick pizza late, it's ready early ... & this time I am here early, the order is late.
@khajvah Opinions are biased by definition.
lol wtf there's a jam
funny
user1804599
Maybe I should implement parameters first.
user1804599
Instead of threading.
ANNOUNCE: GHC version 7.10.1 http://bit.ly/1H3Onfn
wooo
user1804599
08:46
> Applicative is now a superclass of Monad and in the Prelude.
user1804599
hurray
user1804599
> Many prelude combinators have been generalized
user1804599
hurray
user1804599
> Static pointers
user1804599
08:46
no idea
> * Support for partial type signatures
dances around
zomg this is so gud
@Jefffrey @Mr.kbok Do you care about Hate supporting GHC 7.8 or can I go full steam for 7.10?
Do you care about having users
@ParkYoung-Bae that's why I'm asking them duh
user1804599
Where can I find Haddock of the latest base?
user1804599
Hackage is still behind.
user1804599
> and :: Foldable t => t Bool -> Bool
user1804599
hehe, now filter and map and sort.
user1804599
fucking duplication everywhere
@BartekBanachewicz Neat.
fucking has always been about duplication
5

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