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19:00
also a dupe
hey
I just accidentally entered the room "OOP for Noobs", thinking that someone must have changed the name for this room again...
3
but that's the world we live in, OOP for Noobs is an actual room here
Out of Poo?
OOP looks like OOM
oh crap.... inbound Vlad
@milleniumbug You are wrong. It is obvious that the author of the question means that x and y are global variables. So this is a well-defined code in C++. — Vlad from Moscow 1 min ago
@sehe update to the output_iterator_traits debacle: stackoverflow.com/a/29084919/819272
Is it possible to create a dynamic runtime linking system that can change what libraries it links to by reparameterizing?
19:10
you mean like, dynamic linking?
@Cinch by doing what?
I mean like linking different libraries that have different definitions for the same function
try dynamic linking
That way I can store different libraries in the same folder without having to replace one or modify the executable
Or I could rollback to a prior update if needed
Like the program itself is the interface and the library the implementation
It's a hybrid between scripting and compiled dynamic linking
@Mgetz imo the static keyword is not very descriptive and does way too much stuff
user1804599
19:23
Ok so.
user1804599
use foo.* has to find everything in the foo package in the classpath.
user1804599
That shouldn't be too hard to implement.
@Cinch It's just called dynamic linking.
@Jefffrey I'm getting ready for traveling, so canny be on for a while
@Puppy you using the same email and still up for meeting on Friday?
yes
19:33
@Cinch To elaborate on Puppy's point: dynamic linking can do all of the above. It's not only what compilers do when you link a library that happens to be dynamic, but the entire API that allows you to load a library, get a function pointer to a function in it, and call it. See dlsym on Linux, and GetProcAddress on Windows.
Is it okay to return a value from operator->?
yes.
most overloads do.
@TemplateRex That's to keep the noobs from asking us about OOP. When they start to see past that, we'll set up an "OOP Wizards" chat room. The noobs will all flock to it, looking for wizards to help them--but it'll just be noobs... :-)
@milleniumbug a.k.a. Puppy may be pissing on you but he's also right as usual
@Mr.kbok isn't that ~generally~ the point of ->
19:36
@Mr.kbok You mean like how most operator-> overloads return a pointer?
it's just a question of what value you return
@thecoshman Oh, I meant a value type
pointers are value types.
@Mr.kbok Pointers are value types.
I meant return an object by copy.
19:38
@Puppy Yes, except now he (Cinch) knows what words to use when Googling.
What you mean is not returning a pointer.
Yes, and not a reference either.
I meant return an object that doesn't have a trivial destructor.
@Mr.kbok Who gives a shit about trivial destruction? In case you hadn't noticed, the entire language and every library is literally designed from the ground up to support non-trivial destruction.
@JerryCoffin Sounds like my kind of room.
@milleniumbug Yes, but I don't believe in feeding the vermin#
19:39
> The overload of operator -> must either return a raw pointer or return an object (by reference or by value), for which operator -> is in turn overloaded.
@JerryCoffin the lame leading the blind
yaaay my lib works on android through sdl
Okay I'm going to copy the code to coliru and ask if that was okay later
@BartekBanachewicz I need me some Top Gear :(
@TemplateRex At least if they're lame, the leaders won't outrun the poor blind guys by too much.
19:43
@Borgleader :(
Xeo
Xeo
17
Q: How do you raise an intelligent and happy daughter in a sexist world?

AnnaFirstly, apologies for my English. It is my third language. I don't have enough space to explain my reasoning. I just don't want my daughter to be influenced by the media or the general opinions of "society". My daughter is a baby in my womb. I've decided no TV ever, no movies, no pop music...

wow.
@Xeo repost
@Xeo This question seems to just bring out all the anger in me.
Xeo
Xeo
welp, didn't see it on the starboard or within the loaded messages.
20 hours ago, by Pris
13
Q: How do you raise an intelligent and happy daughter in a sexist world?

AnnaFirstly, apologies for my English. It is my third language. I don't have enough space to explain my reasoning. I just don't want my daughter to be influenced by the media or the general opinions of "society". My daughter is a baby in my womb. I've decided no TV ever, no movies, no pop music...

19:47
I hate it when people say "Sorry for my English" and then proceed to use the English language almost perfectly.
I think it's a troll. The OP asks a question and leaves it alone.
It's almost like she's just here to brag about how she knows three languages.
> disregard other peoples judgements as worthless
That's not confidence, that's arrogance.
Still, plenty of good comments in there.
I do apologize for the inconvenience my ever so slightly less than perfect English has caused, I am a koala, and unfortunately I am in the process of learning English as my 17th language.
@Nooble Yes. As a hint, the correct punctuation after caused would be a period or a semicolon. You currently have what's called a "comma splice"--basically two separate sentences, joined by a comma.
19:57
@JerryCoffin Well, at least I apologized.
user1804599
> With all due respect (I don't know you), why do you want to limit your child to your own knowledge and worldview?
user1804599
Why'd one have any respect for such an idiot?
@milleniumbug I don't think it's a troll. That kind of stupidity only comes naturally.
@райтфолд Because SE policies
user1804599
I disrespect said policies.
19:59
Nobody cares about what you do
@Nooble Meh, when I'm reading stuff somebody is writing, either they're smart, or they're trolling.
@Nooble So you did. Overall, I'm quite impressed--I'm quite certain your grammar and usage are much better than those of any other Koala of which I'm aware.
@JerryCoffin That's why they call me king!
@Nooble It would be more impressive if they knew English well, and still called you the king. :-)
How much rep do I need in order to get that +100 rep throughout SE?
@Nooble 200
20:06
@Nooble Apparently more than I have--I only get the +100 on sites I sign up for.
@JerryCoffin The koala treasury needs more money in order for me to bring better education to the kingdom.
@JerryCoffin :P
man developing in c++ for android is so annoying. gotta make changes and build in one IDE, then copy the binaries and rebuild in another IDE
@Nooble Money? I was ready to donate some Eucalyptus trees, but I don't approve of Koalas handling money.
@Pris s/in c++ //
@Pris agreed
@JerryCoffin We koalas have figured out that lugging around eucalyptus saplings is not a very convenient. Instead, we use bank notes as a substitute. The eucalyptus-tree equivalent of the bank note is held somewhere else.
The current exchange rate is 1 tree = $314.15
20:12
Eucalyptus sounds like Calypso-platypus
And a tree is worth 1000 millitrees.
@Nooble I think they've killed off at least a few million dollars worth around here recently. A long time ago, somebody apparently planted a lot of Eucalyptus trees around here (though they're apparently not the same Eucalyptus that Koalas prefer).
They recent cut down a lot along the freeways, apparently in preparation for re-planting with native plants.
@JerryCoffin Why must they get in the way of koala world domination!
@Cinch Platypi are an enemy of the state.
Not as much as kangaroos are though.
vOv technically I have terrain generation... it's shit, but it's still technically generating
How dare you shame platypus empire
Do not dishonor platypus famaree
Mate
20:16
Anything that lays eggs is an enemy.
@thecoshman Ok
This beer is green
@Jefffrey ah maybe a wee bit :D
Xeo
Xeo
@CatPlusPlus Does it look like this?
Beer yes bottle no
Well, it's darker
user1804599
20:22
Stream(findClassFromSource _, findClassFromJavaClass _).collectFirst(unlift(_(name)))
user1804599
So awesome.
@CatPlusPlus does it taste special?
Like is it a fruit beer
Woo I'm about to confirm my new job for DevLeague
aw. anyone here like fruit beers?
20:30
@Cinch is it that bootcamp website for web devs?
@thecoshman I can't right now
@Jefffrey :P
@Nooble Each species has its own weakness. For example, the old joke goes: "Q: Why did God invent whiskey? A: To keep the Irish from dominating the world."
They game me a computer to fix
Fix it.
20:34
Because of course if I'm doing computer science I know how to fix a computer
Especially if Windows 7 is speaking in German
@JerryCoffin Sadly that is true. I cannot go where eucalyptus trees aren't.
@Jefffrey What's the problem with the computer?
@Nooble Start growing portable (Bonsai) Eucalyptus.
@Nooble It keeps saying that the installation could not be completed and to restart the computer to complete it; but when you restart the computer it says the sam exact thing.
20:36
It's a german computer, with a german keyboard.
It's probably stolen.
The classic "friend of a friend of a friend" brought it to me.
@Jefffrey give him the classic "fuck off"
Can't, he is fixing some wifi thingy for my mum.
@Jefffrey what error code is it giving?
2 mins ago, by Jefffrey
@Nooble It keeps saying that the installation could not be completed and to restart the computer to complete it; but when you restart the computer it says the sam exact thing.
No error code. That's what it says.
It's a dialog box with a red X
20:39
Oh :(
@Jefffrey but you're a CS student, can't you fix that for your mum?
No
I can't fix anything that is not code.
For all I care computers could all die.
The error message is specifically "Die Installation konnte nicht abgeschlossen werden. Starten Sie die Installation erneut, um Windows auf diesem Computer zu installieren."
@Jefffrey KB3033929?
I have just seen some article on Czech news site that says that KB3033929 update breaks Windows 7.
20:42
@Jefffrey It may be a partition that can't be deleted automatically. Especially if it's a Lenovo, Sony, HP, or Acer computer, they usually have partitions in them pre-made. Try deleting the partition manually by getting a command prompt open and using diskpart.
It's Sony yes
Is it the same?
Now new problem I have to take care of: I don't remember my router password.
BRB
@Jefffrey I'd be willing to bet it has that "Sony Backup Partition" thingy.
I'll try both solutions, thanks.
20:50
@Jefffrey I hate the mental divide people have between someone who does software (or even computing hardware stuff) and general IT. Its like comparing someone that designs cars to a mechanic
@Pris do you mean the mental divide people lack? :p
Hi folks,
Could somebody else also take care about this illegally upvoted shit please:
0
Q: BST INSERTION using recursion

Feminist Bobcan we create insertion function of BST using recursion but without passing the root pointer. i-e using recursion to implement following function.. void insert(T data); i tried it:- void Bst<T>::insert(T data){ if(root == NULL){ root = NewNode(data); } else if(data<=r...

@πάνταῥεῖ BST is short for bullshit
@milleniumbug Probably :P ...
@πάνταῥεῖ You are overreacting. Take your pills and calm down.
20:54
@melak47 yes
@πάνταῥεῖ not sure who upvoted that
'illegal'
@πάνταῥεῖ lol, Feminist Bob :D
> but problem is now root pointer wont point to root of the tree....**strong text**
strong text is probably the best part
not for the faint of heart
@wilx I took my pills already for today. Didn't help to settle on this shit :-P
20:58
@BartekBanachewicz lol, with my brute force collision checking, 200*200 world is crazy slow to move around in :P
time to smarten that shit up me thinks
@πάνταῥεῖ Well, few shots of Vodka on the pills then.
@wilx whisky actually, but yes.
meanwhile in a virtualized environment.. gnome.org/news/2015/03/…
21:11
@milleniumbug Or BullSchildT, when applied to books.
0
Q: desktop application communication over TCP/IP

dolfromspaceI am working on a WPF application that has C++ 'server' and C#/WPF UI 'client'. The server executes heavy operations and returns data to the client which then display relevant information to users. At start, a senior developer in our team had decided to use TCP/IP stack for server-client communi...

Don't get what he wants.. just for someone to mention "UDP"?
> Don't get
Hehe.
-.-
UDP jokes are amazing.
I'm getting some uncaught exception.
I turn on debug flags to catch it but it doesn't happen at -O0 but it does at -O3.
Not sure if that's a sign of UB or the optimiser being a bit too cruel.
user1804599
21:15
Aaaa I found the solution to the invariance problem.
user1804599
I have to make the variable private to the current object.
might be a memory corruption, sometimes -O0 can mask those
user1804599
Then it's not in covariant position anymore.
@Rapptz Hard to be sure--certainly wouldn't be the first time an optimizer has gone just a tiny bit too far and broken working code. OTOH, code that was broken to start with is certainly a lot more common...
I'm getting an exception thrown for std::string::erase.
The funny part though, is that I don't use std::string::erase anywhere in my code.
I check the libstdc++ sources because I'm confused and I find out that the only other std::string function that uses erase internally is pop_back.
But lo and behold, I don't use that either.
It feels like I'm insane.
21:18
@Rapptz You took the blue pill, didn't you?
If it'd give me a stack trace I would.
Good night folks
Night.
@Rapptz Is this on Windows or Linux?
@Rerito G'night.
Windows.
I have my entire main function wrapped in a try-catch block, so it should only call std::terminate due to some other external factors too.
Like.. noexcept.
But I don't use noexcept when dealing with std::string.
Honestly this whole thing has me baffled.
And the only third party library I'm using that is C++ is..
Boost.Filesystem...
Hm.
21:22
would make sense for them to use string ops.
@Rapptz That's probably where the string manipulation is happening--something with a file path would be an obvious place to manipulate strings.
Well I ruled out Boost because iunno. Blind trust.
@Rapptz Boost is pretty good as a rule. Good point is that if you find a bug, you'll probably be helping out lots of people, not just yourself.
at school i was bored so i started reviewing first posts
and there was this beautiful question
i clicked "Looks Good" with pride
it was fake
fuck you, stackoverflow
It's a trap!
21:26
oh wait, it was Triage
and i tried to upvote
@Blob Easy way: if I posted it, it looks good. Otherwise, reject it without a second thought. Oh, and I virtually never post questions, so...
Random shuffling cards - tl;dr good shuffles take time
Hm. Nope. Not Boost.Filesystem either.
Time to add print statements everywhere and hope for the best.
user1804599
Boost.FileShitstorm
user1804599
Great, I caused a stack overflow exception in the Scala compiler.
user1804599
21:36
I love Turing-complete type systems.
Alright everything fixed
@Pris I usually explain it as "I don't know how to fix computers. I usually break them."
And they laugh and let me go.
Usually
Is it okay to not include declarations for a function in a header file if for example, the function isn't supposed to be used outside of the header file's source code?

For example if I create a header and source, the header includes function foo(), but not bar() and the source contains foo(0 and bar(), because bar() is required by foo() but not outside of foo(), is this okay?
contains foo(0 and bar(), illegible
missing parentheses?
Yeah, typo.
Should be just foo()
@thecoshman Ok, tell me when you go online
21:43
@Jefffrey about two hours ago :\
declare bar() in private:
damn you Heinsenbug.
Forgot to mention... wow. I'm using C which private: doesn't work with.
Sorry about that.
static function in the .c file.
21:44
@Rapptz That happens with UB (on Linux at least).
It depends. If bar() is a member function, you need to include its declaration, even though it's private so outside code can't use it. If it's a free function, then no, the header doesn't need (and shouldn't contain) a declaration of it--define it inside an anonymous namespace or as static, and leave it at that.
Okay thank you @Rapptz and @JerryCoffin.
You can declare bar() in a separate class DiffClass and call DiffClass.bar() inside foo() (make bar() a static function.)
@LucDanton I know my UBs!
I can't find anything. :|
Been staring at this for a while.
Could always be a new, exciting source of UB.
21:47
@TemplateRex pretty bad, but the best answer I can think of
Only other thing I can think of that calls std::string::erase is std::regex.
@Jefffrey about to head up for night, just laughing at fat people
@thecoshman What do you mean?
@Jefffrey ... I'm not heading on tonight.
@Rapptz it's crept into your spelling too
21:49
What
"about to head up for night"
"I'm not heading on tonight"
Heinleinbug?
@sehe lol
@Jefffrey up to bed with the misses for some x-files :\
@Rapptz Full recompile? <ducks/>
In computer programming jargon, a heisenbug is a software bug that seems to disappear or alter its behavior when one attempts to study it. The term is a pun on the name of Werner Heisenberg, the physicist who first asserted the observer effect of quantum mechanics, which states that the act of observing a system inevitably alters its state. In electronics the traditional term is probe effect, where attaching a test probe to a device changes its behavior. Similar terms, such as bohrbug, mandelbug, and schrödinbug have been occasionally proposed for other kinds of unusual software bugs, sometimes...
21:50
@thecoshman I see
@Rapptz Yeah, I know :)
I thought I actually misspelled it.
@Rapptz You did
Oh I did.
:D
21:52
Slippy fingers.
@sehe Is there something like a P. K. Dick's bug actually?
Not unless you invent it
All signs currently point to std::regex.
@πάνταῥεῖ That's the kind of bugs that only manifests when you're hallucinating.
Just hoping for a crash again so I can verify.
21:54
@sehe output iterators suck big time, here's a link to extract the hidden container* coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/e9a5dc107a23e7ac
@R.MartinhoFernandes I wasn't focusing about their last name so much :-P
Yes, DevLeague is the bootcamp
@R.MartinhoFernandes nice blog the other day about namespaces etc., but, but, wasn't it rather easy, given your preference for SFINAE subtleties?
Btw C++ midterm average is 60 and the data distribution is an M
@πάνταῥεῖ What?
22:03
@R.MartinhoFernandes It's too filthy to explain in detail :) ...
Nah. That's not filthy. That's banal. (Still too <qualifier> to explain, I guess)
@LucDanton I can't find this new and exciting UB v2.
:(
Try UB 40
user1804599
TIL job control in Z shell.
user1804599
kill %1 is handy.
22:09
Question: I'm in class and they're describing shared references. How do you do this in a multithreaded environment?
@райтфолд no way.
@Cinch precisely the same
user1804599
@Cinch You do it by using a GC and immutable objects.
But can so many threads read the same object fast?
Or does it shutter and spit down
Wat
If you have no reasonable question, it's hard to give a meaningful answer
What I mean is what if you have a counter. You have a server with 1000 distinct connects that needs to access it or at least read it. Even if I use semaphores, who can guarantee that I read the same reference at the right time?
user1804599
22:19
@sehe Thank you for these perls of wisdom teeth.
user1804599
I need food.
I.E. I open a new connection doing +1 to counter. if I have 500 at the same time, how do you decide the order while also making use of cincurrebcy?
@Cinch do you think you have 1000 threads?
Shared data needs synchronization. Changes nothing to the mechanics of sharing the reference, though
No but say this is networking and distributed computing with clients and servers
shared_ptr has builtin atomic load/store (could be lockfree, but that's implementation defined)
22:21
yeah so I guess that's what shared is for... Good I get a use case for it now
@Cinch what the hell does that have to do with it. The distributedness does not cause threading
@Cinch hrmmm?
Ugh I'm on mobile I can't type fast enough
WRONG
But thank you for the help
You can't think slowly enough
Remember
Learning things isn't about impressing people with how much semi-related stuff you can spit out per minute
6
user1804599
22:23
@sehe It depends.
It's about isolating your real question, removing all noise, and digesting the information you find
user1804599
You don't need synchronisation if the data is only read from and never written to.
@райтфолд I know. He was setting a context, though
user1804599
Ewwwwwww.
user1804599
22:33
OK, foundation of polling monitors work now.
user1804599
Time to implement HTTP status code monitor.
user1804599
And then ping monitor.
Pollen monitors, just in time for hay fever season
user1804599
FP is good for consuming input and OOP is good for generating output.
Right. Seems a liiiitle arbitrary
user1804599
22:35
Because FP is good at many operations on fixed data types and OOP is good at many data types on fixed operations.
Sounds like a lot of smoke and mirrors.
user1804599
I thought about this today.
There's bound to be a few ways in which these fuzzy things can be made to make sense.
I doubt whether there's some essential, inherent insight in it. At least, if you isolate it, it will not come out so Uncle Bob
user1804599
Perhaps FP is not the right word.
user1804599
More like, SOP.
22:37
SOP?
user1804599
I want to write cryptic code.
user1804599
I have a new shiny avatar.
I think I have my bits right now.
Hope I don't have to drop this low for a while.
@BartekBanachewicz Why are the marmelade themes picked 24h before the start of the event? Are we expected to do something about the theme during those 24h?
22:47
i reckon it's in case the theme is too crummy
Read the rules.
15
Oh I forgot it's in the topic now
Whatever
> Scott Meyers (in Effective C++) recommends that you use pass by const ref for all types, except for builtin types (char, int, double, etc.), [...].
Why not built-in types?
user1804599
> Electricity is not a human invention
I never understood why the rules must be starred 15 times. Pin makes sense.
user1804599
:(
22:49
@DonLarynx They're not more expensive than the reference's underlying pointer, but you get copy for free
@sehe Okay
@DonLarynx Basically, it's a "Oh mah gerd, copying a few bytes!!!11oneone!1" idiocy.
@R.MartinhoFernandes I did :S I think Jerry and Ligthness reported this too?
@JohanLarsson It "must" not. But it shows that people support the rules
That it's not just a "mod" who pins it
:)
fair enough
@R.MartinhoFernandes erm (a) why (b) when?

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