« first day (1565 days earlier)      last day (3609 days later) » 

07:06
@Jefffrey Talks much about your life. :P
@Jefffrey I imagine you being called Jeffrey IRL and not having any reaction.
Well, actually I've once tried to introduce myself as Jeffrey to the first guy I got to know at the university. Iunno, just for fun and because it was a different city so nobody was there calling me differently. Then a year later I invited him in our home there with other 3 of my friends and he quickly learned my real name. But the first time he spoke to the landowner he said "Yeah, well. I'm a friend of Jeffrey there." and everybody was so confused. Nobody knew I like to be called Jeffrey.
I felt a shiver running down my spine.
07:29
@JerryCoffin Get your sane and reasonable logic out of this room
07:40
@MarkGarcia you openID details?
> Your connection to chat.stackoverflow.com is encrypted with 128-bit encryption. However, this page includes other resources which are not secure. These resources can be viewed by others while in transit, and can be modified by an attacker to change the look of the page.
@thecoshman Well I think Google APIs default to HTTPS for that.
But I don't have any knowledge on those things.
does it involve computers of some sort
@AMostMajestuousCapybara It does, but identity authentication ultimately goes to FBI personnel.
07:48
I thought that was NSA, not FBI
@Jefffrey NSA is for transport-level authentication.
oooh
neat
user1804599
what is this scratch.mit.edu
what does it have anything to do with programming
Everything?
user1804599
The web app was programmed.
user1804599
oh it's about that programming language
user1804599
dunno what it's called
08:36
Aaaah xkcd shirts received!
user1804599
Scratch is a free desktop and online multimedia authoring tool that can be used by students, scholars, teachers, and parents to easily create games and provide a stepping stone to the more advanced world of computer programming or even be used for a range of educational and entertainment constructivist purposes from math and science projects, including simulations and visualizations of experiments, recording lectures with animated presentations, to social sciences animated stories, and interactive art and music. Viewing the existing projects available on the Scratch website, or modifying and testing...
@рытфолд Looks good to get one's kids into programming :p
user1804599
No.
user1804599
You want to teach them C.
user1804599
If you are too mild towards your children they will not survive society.
user1804599
08:40
> 2 failed logins since last login.
user1804599
Somebody is trying to login to my IRC account.
@рытфолд Meh not if you're talking about kids under 10
user1804599
You're wrong.
I'll try when I'll have one then :p
user1804599
Perl source filters are nice.
08:46
@Jefffrey it's a toy language for teaching kids stuff
say, anyone booked anything for uncoference yet?
@ThePhD if you believe
09:02
@Rerito pics or didn't happen
@FredOverflow They're at my local post office right now
09:20
> Sorry, command-not-found has crashed!
Wait what
(trying cabal --version on my uni servers)
09:30
When your answer is so awesome it makes it to Wikipedia...
In computer science, Ukkonen's algorithm is a linear-time, online algorithm for constructing suffix trees, proposed by Esko Ukkonen in 1995. The algorithm begins with an implicit suffix tree containing the first character of the string. Then it steps through the string adding successive characters until the tree is complete. This order addition of characters gives Ukkonen's algorithm its "on-line" property. The original algorithm presented by P. Weiner proceeded backward from the last character to the first one from the shortest to the longest suffix. A simpler algorithm was found by Edward M....
@Jefffrey lololo
> Microsoft cut 18,000 jobs last year.
oh hm
fuck fuck fuck
You can't capture objects within anonymous Runnable instances (like lambdas) in Java 7, but you can in Java 8.
And I forgot to check with the uni servers before submitting the project.
FFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUU
09:46
loljava
@Rerito hehe. Me & my kid did a "hangman" in C++ :) He was 6 at the time
Jun 11 '14 at 8:54, by sehe
If I can hand in the hangman I did last week with my kid :)
Obviously, he was "learning" the concept of "you can tell the computer what to do"
And "also" how to not "abuse usage" of "quotes"
@sehe Oh nice!
@AMostMajestuousCapybara what do you "mean"?
09:53
"cut" it out :)
Hi
@sehe showing C++ to 6-yolds sounds wrong :P
@Rerito Last week, he wanted to borrow some of my CDs to listen in his room (that was fun in itself, and a first). He suggested I should keep track of the lendings like in the library. So, we sat down and created a google docs spreadsheet that shows the number of items "out", their due dates (lol). With conditional formatting, and some basic date calculations. He can now look at that sheet /live/ on the tablet
@BartekBanachewicz Sorry. I'll do whatever comes natural to me, and it fit the bill. Really, had I chosen Pascal/Lisp/Haskell or (god forbid) jabbascript, it would have been the same gibberish to him anyways.
It was about "you tell it what to do, and then you run it"
@sehe see that's my point precisely
He was really keen on letting his sister lose (because he chose the word list)
you tell it what to do, not what you want
@sehe lol
09:57
@BartekBanachewicz are you seriously going to turn this into a fight imperative vs declarative
lol Puppy went full Puppy on the abstraction inversion guy again
@BartekBanachewicz I've even had them draw hangman stages and vectorized them. That's right around when I asked you about Love2d, remember? Never got around to doing the GUI version though
@AMostMajestuousCapybara Only if you want him to
@AndyProwl same post? Lost the link
@sehe bah, I remember
@MasonWheeler: All even very basically competent C++ programmers know about it. The mistake you are describing is unbelievably basic and only applies to people who are tremendously incompetent, inexperienced, or both. Also, polymorphism simply isn't that useful a tool in C++ so taking by value is perfectly correct most of the time... and many of the rest the type is an abstract type that can't be taken by value anyway. — DeadMG 40 mins ago
@sehe yeah (^)
@BartekBanachewicz upvoted for "Also, polymorphism simply isn't that useful a tool in C++ so taking by value is perfectly correct most of the time" (of course the rest is worthy of a rudeness flag)
10:00
I do find polymorphism useful, but I'm a bit ashamed of it
I would find it much more useful if it weren't inheritance-based, but that's another wet dream at the moment
@AndyProwl That's like saying you enjoy sex. Nothing bad about it
(sex is a useful tool for very limited tasks, but it's not unpleasant)
@sehe using namespace std;
using std::condom; // spiral out of control
@sehe Eh, value semantics is idiomatic in C++, but I realize that most of my types are meant to be used with reference semantics (this is what I actually meant to say with "I do find polymorphism useful") - that's the part that makes me a bit ashamed
Polymorphism is a broken java way of composing contextful effects
10:04
I find reference semantics enormously useful. Hell, I find even GC enormously useful. Especially in a multithreaded world. However, I stay away from it for many many applications (which would not be possible in another language)
as in o = new Outer(outer_params, new Inner(inner_params))
@BartekBanachewicz Poylmorphism is fine. Inheritance-based polymorphism is very often dumb though.
@sehe using std::intimate_gel; // for cache friendliness
@AndyProwl I am not sure if I actually find it useful
how do you solve problems with polymorphism?
@AMostMajestuousCapybara cache is funny with the associations in French
@BartekBanachewicz java has literally very little to do with it
10:06
@sehe s/java/OOP/
@BartekBanachewicz inb4 multimethod
@BartekBanachewicz done
@BartekBanachewicz sometimes you need to work with something that adheres to a certain interface, but you don't know the concrete type of those objects until run-time (read: type erasure). That's a very frequent use case. In fact, Haskell's type classes are a tool for polymorphism too
@Jefffrey you called?
@AndyProwl Haskell's type classes are static.
Eq a => a -> a -> Bool needs to be used with the type being known.
well, unless the outer user is unbound.
OK, I had this discussion once here and what I gathered from it was that "it depends". After all, there are people who solved the Expression Problem with type classes so they must allow for dynamic polymorphism
10:09
@BartekBanachewicz Yup. Dynamic dispatch comes down to a typeswitch in Haskell implementations. So, that's actually not very different from virtual tables. It's just a different way of writing.
Of course, the fact that the language makes it convenient to stay in 'statically typed land' (well, as far as you can consider algebraic types like A|B|C statically known) obviously makes for better compiler optimizations. But it's really not that different
@AndyProwl ^
Anyway type erasure is a form of dynamic polymorphism (see std::function)
@sehe Yep, thanks
well the point is that if you "rigidize" the type variables in Haskell they don't get type erased
And this reminds me I should work on my proposal
I find myself writing static polymorphic solutions in C++ all the time. It's not that much of a burden (although coworkers could potentially disagree) and allows for similar optimization/extensibility in C++
Haskell's functions stay generic as long as the code using them does so
10:11
Of course, having a language that focuses on it would feel more pure
ITT: Bartek Milewski
2
@AMostMajestuousCapybara idgi
No indeed. Bartosz is usually considerate and moderate
@sehe Just a slight parallel
I'm actually his Jekyll alter-ego
10:12
My point is simply that dynamic polymorphism (esp. based on type-erasure) is very useful, although intrusive polymorphism based on inheritance is a PITA.
@AMostMajestuousCapybara The star was mine. And immediate
@sehe You have all my love and gratitude (for real!)
@AndyProwl I'm not sure. I think it approaches the whole thing backwards
I prefer buttcoins (not for real!)
"here's an object that carries information on its operations"
vs "here's data, and you can do whatever you want with it"
OOP is meh.
10:14
@sehe You ain't gay.
@BartekBanachewicz This is a wellknown phenomenon. Affectionately known as Bartekking (a fundamentalist variant of the FP religion)
@Jefffrey :(
G'morning
Wheels are also meh, and yet we've built things on them for a couple thousand years now
Sorry dude
no seriously OOP is complicating everything for no apparent reason
3 years ago it kinda felt natural to have functions tied to data
All you need is static polymorphism
10:15
but now that I've realized I don't have to do it, I look back and I'm like "uh why did I ever do it like that? it's totes weird"
All you need is PHP
just use free functions and think in terms of data transfromations.
@BartekBanachewicz ikr
oop makes sense when it makes sense
I was really into design patterns too.
do you have a data structure?
then oop makes sense
@orlp you don't know where you're headed to, abandon ship
10:16
why would having a "data structure" make sense in this regard.
std::vector for example
look a list: [1,2,3] (it's a data structure!)
Methods are really just functions implicitly accepting some object as first argument.
@BartekBanachewicz OK, my point was in the context of C++. If you broaden the context to the point that the stage on which my argument stands is removed, discussion becomes harder (and more opinion-based)
@Jefffrey I think he was more referring to vtables, which are carried with objects in C++, but not in Haskell
or something
10:18
Haskell doesn't need vtables.
@AndyProwl In C++ I think it really depends on a particular design at hand.
Jan 13 '14 at 15:27, by Cat Plus Plus
Type classes are vtables
Pro tip: static polymorphism and dynamic polymorphism are both polymorphism
While we've established that you could theoretically write code based on immutability in C++, nobody does that, and from all of those small choices grow the ultimate limitations
10:19
It shouldn't come as a surprise you can express roughly the same things with them. The key difference is how much you intend to know at runtime (although you can pave over it with erasure).
This shift doesn't require Haskell. It requires discipline. If you lack discipline, you might use Haskell instead
@BartekBanachewicz Indeed, and many times the design at hand benefits from dynamic polymorphism
(in C++)
Also I'd use static polymorphism much more often in C++ if it didn't lead to very long compile times
And if all the code didn't have to be in a header file
And if the syntax wasn't ugly
And if concepts were a thing
And so on...
In short, if it weren't C++
@BartekBanachewicz If you don't lack discipline you may still use Haskell, in case you were confused about what I said
@AMostMajestuousCapybara ^
@AMostMajestuousCapybara Yeah pretty much
@sehe Nononono why did you have to clarify :(
10:21
but then again Haskell has no industry impact right
why would you ever use it... right
Neither does your mom tbh
Xeo
Xeo
Type erasure is my new hammer, and everything looks like a lovely, type-safe, polymorphic nail.
@AndyProwl It doesn't matter in my experience. I've found that I can "firewall" compilation at /some/ header boundaries just fine and it all comes in in reasonable compile times. It's just, you have to decide what level of implementation you want to expose 'header-only-style'
And yet I use her everyday
Xeo
Xeo
10:22
Somehow, that feels fitting.
@Xeo how apt
@sehe That's a valid approach to remove one of the obstacles, but there are more
Such as? The problem of hiding implementation details and proprietary code?
The lack of concepts that make it hard to ensure valid use and test coverage?
compilation errors w/o concepts
10:23
@sehe I listed them above
@BartekBanachewicz well... I found Haskell errors to be equally confounding (albeit shorter)
@AndyProwl Ah, so I felt the same issues, even though I missed your rant list.
Crap, my design sucks :(
@AndyProwl I feel the syntax issues are dwindling fast
most of the Haskell errors I encounter are:
a) you're ambiguous
b) you're wrong (type mismatch)
c) your modules/imports are bad (lacking imports/duplicate instances)
d) your cabal file is wrong
10:25
@chmod711telkitty mild chuckle
@BartekBanachewicz e) you're grammar sucks
@sehe I think it was a rightful rant though
Of course you were right! I felt the same way, so how could you be wrong?
lol
just FTR, I think Haskell is awesome and I wish I knew it better. This doesn't mean C++ is useless though, and doesn't change the fact that I have to use C++ at work
10:27
@sehe and frankly, only the c) category is actually annoying annoying.
@AndyProwl I kinda feel that even with C++17 out, C++ will still stay the language of the past. With modern improvements, fast, useful; but still not comparable to the expressiveness, readability and lack of cruft of really modern languages
like say Rust
I feel like I'm reading /r/rust
Help.
I dunno what's wrong in stating "here's the point where whatever we could do with C++ ends"
because if you move further, it's no longer C++ anymore
std::move(further); orly
@BartekBanachewicz It's a language that comes from the past and it suffers from it, indeed. However, "language of the past" is an exaggeration IMO. It might not be the language of the future, I concur with that. However, it is alive and currently hard to replace for systems programming - modulo Rust, which I don't know (yet).
Rust has even less industry relevance than Haskell, so no, it won't replace anything soon
10:30
> developped by Mozilla/Samsung
> less industry relevance
@BartekBanachewicz cough
who cares who developed it? It's still a research project.
@sehe what now? That's true.
It's not like anyone sane would replace their whole stack with Haskell
new, smaller, pioneering projects? sure.
@BartekBanachewicz You mean, "objectively" true? Ah. Yeah. I forget it's a case of abstraction inversion
@BartekBanachewicz "FSS" is not an argument
10:32
2 > 1. NO BUT IT CANT BE
If people could consider using Haskell, why could they not use Rust?
@sehe "FFS" is, though.
@BartekBanachewicz Tautologies are not arguments
@sehe no idea. That's not what I said.
0
Q: Why do phone games limit turns?

EricMany phone games restrict the number of turns you can play in a given amount of time. I don't get what is the purpose of this limitation. Is it only to force the player to buy additional turns? Some games don't even allow this for some turn "kinds" (like action A can be played again by spending r...

wtf kind of question is this
10:33
2 mins ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
Rust has even less industry relevance than Haskell, so no, it won't replace anything soon
"Uh why do they make you buy stuff with real money, is it so that they make money?"
@sehe there's a vast difference between "being used" and "replacing c++"
@AlexM. The shocking truth emerges
@AlexM. The question isn't that stupid. Why would they limit your turns if playing (even for free) increases your chance of buying something else? Your analysis is reductive.
Sure there are companies that use Rust.
10:34
@BartekBanachewicz whatever. You just randomly "observe" (translation: state unfounded claim) that X>Y and then you explode when people are not so eager to accept it as fact.
@AMostMajestuousCapybara because by paying now you don't wait
have you played any such games, or are you talking out of your ass?
are you familiar with "You're so close to winning! Replenish your lives now for $5 or wait 2 hours and try again." situations?
Nope
Since you're replying so nicely, let me explain what I mean. My question is rethoric and means "stop thinking people are dumbfucks, you dumbfuck" . Excuse me for having been nice, polite and subtle.
10:37
what do you know you rodent
Xeo
Xeo
@AlexM. I personally find these enforced waiting periods really annoying - and will not play games that make me wait.
@AlexM. Do I call you Europe's Burglar
@sehe I was trying to find any rankings comparing rust and haskell popularity, but even those obscure enough to include haskell don't even mention rust, so that proved hard
Xeo
Xeo
I'm the kind of gamer that loves to dive into games and go at his own pace - games with enforced waiting time are straight off my "might play" list
congratulations, I've no observable proof to show that rust isn't used
I give up, you win.
10:38
Yay @sehe!!!
@Xeo I'm with you on that one
@AMostMajestuousCapybara what?
Xeo
Xeo
Hey Cicada, you coming for Unconference 2.0? :P
Hong Kong <-> London is even worse than France <-> London but I'll try ;D /cc @thecoshman
Xeo
Xeo
:)
10:40
hmpfh
I have ~1.5MB diff
@AlexM. game design questions are off topic for gd.se?
what the hell am I supposed to do with that
@AMostMajestuousCapybara I need to backport (retrofit?) the differences
welp actually it's "frontport"
Retrofit? Maybe go to a gym in the 1980s, I don't know
10:42
cutting unnecessary files brought it down to 1MB
better, but still terrible :S
shit.
@Rapptz I'm not sure how "subjective" this one is
@Xeo BTW is there already a list of people attending like last year on the wiki?
it didn't get closed yet
Xeo
Xeo
@AMostMajestuousCapybara Wiki is dead. Kinda.
We do have a list somewhere, though, I think...
of what?
Xeo
Xeo
10:44
Attending people
Do you have Cicada plonked?
he probably didn't realize it's him (cue last time)
TIL Miyazaki smokes
who is miyazaki and why the fact of him (her?) smoking is important?
@Xeo apparently so :P
@BartekBanachewicz Have you heard of Studio Ghibli
10:46
@AMostMajestuousCapybara no.
@thecoshman you suck
you're missing out bub
@BartekBanachewicz he's a very famous guy making anime films
@AMostMajestuousCapybara welcome back to the world of people I mildly give a fuck about
like a Steven Spielberg of anime
10:46
@AMostMajestuousCapybara you beg to differ
Hayao Miyazaki (宮﨑 駿, Miyazaki Hayao, born January 5, 1941) is a Japanese film director, animator, manga artist, illustrator, producer, and screenwriter. Through a career that has spanned five decades, Miyazaki has attained international acclaim as a masterful storyteller and as a maker of anime feature films and, along with Isao Takahata, co-founded Studio Ghibli, a film and animation studio. The success of Miyazaki's films has invited comparisons with American animator Walt Disney, British animator Nick Park, and American director Steven Spielberg. He is considered one of the most popular and...
@thecoshman simple curiosity, what got me plonked at first?
@AlexM. I see.
perhaps if I were watching those chinese movies I'd care more
Xeo
Xeo
@AMostMajestuousCapybara You being you, prolly. :P
@AMostMajestuousCapybara general annoyance
10:47
@AlexM. that being said, if Stephen Spielberg smoked, it wouldn't be interesting either
Xeo
Xeo
And the fact that you always appear with a new nick
@Xeo more or less
@AMostMajestuousCapybara so yeah, anything 'important' that you said to me over the last month or so...
@Rapptz wait he is responsible for mononoke?
@thecoshman I've been here 1 week I think
lol that was such a crappy movie
10:48
@AMostMajestuousCapybara it didn't take long :P
I'm kind of flattered
@BartekBanachewicz That was more or less my point. In my view, Rust and Haskell are comparably viable for commercial application (Haskell even being the more shaky proposition until Haskell LTS, IYAM). But yes, there's nothing to base this off (except biases). (Sidenote: I didn't realize your ranty claim was trying to say "rust isn't used". That's surprisingly not how I read your claim)
@Xeo new nick I can handle, new profile how ever :P
Even after 2 years here I can still piss you off
must pissed you off dearly when you lost all that reps
10:49
@AMostMajestuousCapybara you didn't piss me off, I just plonk wildly
@BartekBanachewicz Mononake is my least favourite movie of his.
I am a plonker
OTOH sehe and Xeo were ultra fast this time (+- 4 messages, wat)
only what? 15k?
if you will
10:50
That I've seen anyway.
@sehe Being serious though, last week I saw two rankings placing rust far behind haskell in popularity, but couldn't find either
@chmod711telkitty 21k, no big deal rite
@BartekBanachewicz Interesting. Now, let's find out some relevancy of these rankings :)
@Rapptz I don't know how tremendous improvements he'd need to make over that to make it enjoyable
10:50
@AMostMajestuousCapybara it's about 20900 more than you need :P
Xeo
Xeo
@Rapptz Apropos, have you watched Patema Inverted yet?
I can math
@sehe at least one was based on GH data. Which sure, might mean nothing. Or everything.
> GH data
> universal truth
10:51
53 secs ago, by chmod 711 telkitty
riiiight
@BartekBanachewicz It means what it means. I was thinking about relevance
Xeo
Xeo
@AMostMajestuousCapybara I feel like I've always caught on to you relatively quick
@AMostMajestuousCapybara BUT ITS ALL A MATTER OF PERCEPTION YOU SEE
@Xeo Nope.
@BartekBanachewicz And exploding
Xeo
Xeo
@BartekBanachewicz *IT'S
10:52
@BartekBanachewicz They're all different stories lol.
@sehe opensource community is p relevant imho
omg stalker ... glad I am on his plonk ... do not want to be stalked by a persistent ********
@BartekBanachewicz I perceive caps
@Xeo NO YOU DONT GET IT
@BartekBanachewicz Of course. But the amount of projects shared on GH says different things
10:52
@Rapptz I meant overall impression
@BartekBanachewicz Take a break
Howl's Moving Castle is 10/10.
@sehe Take a Haskill-Kat
@sehe meh, he was trolling, writing all caps with no interpunction is a proper response
Xeo
Xeo
@Rapptz aww
10:53
@Xeo s%*IT's%s/TS/T'S/%
@Rapptz since you've actually agreed with me that mononoke was crap, I might even try watching that and giving the guy a 2nd chance
@AMostMajestuousCapybara that sweet taste of ricin
@BartekBanachewicz yes, because inner peace becomes irrelevant when your opponent doesn't know Kung Fu
@BartekBanachewicz Ghibli have lots of great films
I watched Mononake cause it was my girlfriend's favourite movie of his but I thought it was boring.
10:55
I liked Monoke ¬_¬ what ever... I like that one, but it really is appealing to a more western audience I feel.
Stereoke is also pretty nice
@Rapptz It is rather drawn out
You mean. Like lounge discussions
@AMostMajestuousCapybara is that where you snort with both nostrils at once?
@sehe no
not at all
Lounge discussions are short
Xeo
Xeo
@Rapptz *Mononoke
10:56
and concise
¬_¬ fuck I hate that rate limiter
@Xeo yes
@sehe what makes you think that writing all caps disturbs my inner peace? Perhaps that's actually helping me vent the excess knee-jerk reaction out
@cat I want a chat extension that auto re-tries message if I am rate limited!
@BartekBanachewicz So. That's how I know there was inner turmoil
@BartekBanachewicz having to tire your pinky vOv
10:57
I want a lot of things
Agreeing
Is strawberry cheesecake one of those things
@thecoshman SE chat extensions: Ctrl-Spacebar
@AMostMajestuousCapybara Most definitely not
@sehe for real?
test
¬_¬ when you fucking want to be rate limited
no
yes
ooooh
@sehe thanks :D
There was a phrase once that arguing with someone dumb is a guaranteed loss for the smarter one because the dumber one will ultimately get the discussion down to his level and win because of experience.
That made me think
Xeo
Xeo
10:59
@AMostMajestuousCapybara I find raspberry cheesecake more appealing
Or even better, Zupfkuchen /cc @R.MartinhoFernandes
I hope xeo get really fat really fast - it's not fair if he eats all those junk food & doesn't get fat
@thecoshman RTFM strikes again
@Xeo Let us get into a heated argument on which is best
@Xeo ¬_¬ is that that pizza?
@sehe wait... it has one?

« first day (1565 days earlier)      last day (3609 days later) »