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13:00
Prelude is open source
@MartinJames what else
Open your fn on hackage, click "source" on the right
@AlexM. seems like the perfect excuse to visit
SO people are thick as fuck sometimes
> CloseDialuge
that's what you should do with that question
boy is this guy stubborn
the finally guy
is he still going on? I hope you're not arguing there
it's Programmers.jpg
or rather, the "stack based objects are an abomination that violate the Liskov Substitution Principle" guy
he's fighting like a Vlad
13:12
@AndyProwl There will be a time when you'll say "He finally gave up!" haha
@AndyProwl what
@Rerito I doubt that time will ever come :P
he's just bad at C++ programming life duh
He is probably unaware that you can pass stack objects polymorphically.
@BartekBanachewicz So there's a good chance we'll outlive him. He will give up through death!
13:14
so, python
how do I python
with Google
seriously, Python's that easy.
I've heard it's Object Orientated
ehh
can be
13:17
Yes but it doesn't have private you must use underscore by conventation.
the lack of support for functional programming is super annoying
@FredOverflow but how I encapsulation
with __
what
13:18
I didn't know Puppy was an FP supporter?
> Python's lack of support for FP is super annoying
> Won't learn Haskell because waste of time
yes, indeed I am
@BartekBanachewicz Prefix members with __ (private) or _ (protected) :)
@FredOverflow he doesn't really support FP more than, say, a folded sheet of paper
"already used data already" Was this delicious irony deliberate? ;) — Lightness Races in Orbit just now
13:19
clearly, "supporting FP" == "learning Haskell"
and it's completely impossible to want a language that offers both FP and OOP.
@Puppy anything from ML family
@Puppy for any X, X == "learning Haskell"
same point.
@Puppy there's C#/F# already
wanting or supporting an entire paradigm cannot be defined by liking a particular language or family.
@BartekBanachewicz Yeah, but that's not really the same thing because of all the extra bullshit involved, like no free functions.
13:20
except when the family is widely recognized as the best implementation of paradigm
@Puppy F# has free functions
being widely recognized as the best implementation is not really saying much.
but right F# is too close to Haskell for you to learn I understand
I mean I don't, because it's dumb as fuck, but it somehow probably makes sense with the flawed logic you reason with
I don't care what other people with different requirements and tastes think of Haskell.
I only care about whether or not it appears to meet my requirements.
yeah, we could fill a vast space with things you don't care about
like not being an ignoramus.
ah, so another reasonable discussion tanked.
13:22
@Puppy Scala
@Puppy lol since when it was reasonable?
let me just return to the original point: Python's lack of support for FP is super annoying.
5 mins ago, by Puppy
the lack of support for functional programming is super annoying
since then.
I don't remember anyone having a reasonable discussion with you since like 2012
3
you're the one who turned this into a personal assault
13:23
@LightnessRacesinOrbit It's known as "dialogue id" not "dialogue". — Meysam 4 mins ago
fuck me
meh I can't even downvote him
Meanwhile, brb getting popcorn for long-overdue showdown between the two room clowns, @Bartek and @Puppy :D
@AndyProwl lolwut
requires 125 rep
@AndyProwl yes you can son go for it!
13:23
@LightnessRacesinOrbit look who's talking
wait what
@BartekBanachewicz ;)
@TonyTheLion Does it move?
@LightnessRacesinOrbit PROGRAMMERS.JPG
@BartekBanachewicz I showdown with you two all the time
you "show down" yes
13:24
@Puppy If you fuck with FP, you fuck with Bartek!
4
@AndyProwl You have over 60,000 rep. 60,000 > 125
@LightnessRacesinOrbit not on programmers.se
@BartekBanachewicz I show up and then we show down
@AndyProwl Oh; what question are you talking about then? The one I've been posting is on SO....
user1804599
@FredOverflow s/FP/FP according to Bartek's definition/
@FredOverflow That is clearly not something of which I am afraid.
also s/fuck with FP/don't like Haskell/
13:25
he clearly wants it
@LightnessRacesinOrbit don't think I'm talking about the same Q&A, it's this abomination here
@Puppy that's because I consider vast majority of your arguments hilarious, your opinions are prejudiced and ignorant BS and I hardly believe in you putting anything constructive here, so I can a) try for the nth time to get you to understand that b) get some lulz out of that
4
@R.MartinhoFernandes: I like that. That's quite a good metaphor for the use of the C++ language in general. I'll have to remember that one. :D — Mason Wheeler 2 mins ago
yes, I'm a terrible person
@AndyProwl good grief
13:26
@FredOverflow Doesn't look like it
@LightnessRacesinOrbit read the comments for more fun
Bartek so butthurt lately. Though I have to admit he's (a) right, and (b) highly entertaining. So yeah. Carry on.
@MasonWheeler: But C++ objects are not value types. They are both value and reference types, since you can take them by value or by reference. — DeadMG 1 min ago
ahahahaha
hahah
ha
@MartinJames you can guess how happy I am with my work right now:
Very useful. I've used this mold (because it let me keep my stream consuming threads as-is). However, I've updated the waitForProcess to account for spurious interrupts...: paste.ubuntu.com/9898052sehe 36 secs ago
13:28
Build code out of straw!
@LightnessRacesinOrbit lol
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I sometimes feel a bit bad for being such a dick towards Puppy, but I really want the best for him and that's my poor man's way of communicating that.
I'm a bit emotionally retarded.
5
@BartekBanachewicz presumably this is the point where LRIO thought you were right
13:30
@LightnessRacesinOrbit overboard
I dunno, he always agrees with me in the weirdest and most unexpected places
I think I agree with Puppy, although the wording may not have been ideal
@BartekBanachewicz I agree!
... I.... I really fell for that.
@jalf here's a reward: spotify:track:1C0pmryC2MdXfa7MZ9uIrU
(this song could be about lounge actually)
heh
13:32
It's been one week since you looked at me
Cocked your head to the side and said "I'm angry"
Five days since you laughed at me saying
"Get that together come back and see me"
Three days since the living room
I realized it's all my fault, but couldn't tell you
Yesterday you'd forgiven me
but it'll still be two days till I say I'm sorry
I like it.
is that what Haskellites listen to?
Oh I listen to a lot of stuff
@BartekBanachewicz haha ok
@BartekBanachewicz That's usually when you're having a Puppy moment, I'm afraid (rather than the other way around)
@BartekBanachewicz Shame you never listen to any of us -.-
<3
@LightnessRacesinOrbit hey that's not true at all
Wow, the Lounge/SO-C++-gurus are doing massive teamwork discussion on the anti-RAII guy: programmers.stackexchange.com/a/271254/9450
It's almost like they're finishing each other's sentences :o
13:35
I want to downvote
it's not going anywhere though
it's like arguing with Vlad
@rubenvb that's basically the one situation where everyone in this room gets along
we should upvote each other so we can downvote this guy
2
when writing comments for stupid c++ questions
2
except this guy claims that something fine is evil, while Vlad takes something evil and promotes it as "fine"
13:37
@AndyProwl not ideal? if you say that references are by value too... that makes some sense :)
It also more or less looks like intellectual wanking
Trying this hard to spit on something
@AndyProwl Yeah, I'm getting to that part now.
@jalf Or answers.
@Rerito yep, but at least it keeps people from fighting in here
You're dumb.
Fuck you.
13:38
@sehe he meant to write (I suppose) that types can be used with value semantics or reference semantics, but a type's definition per se doesn't impose the semantics on the user of the type - at least not by default
You're the stupidest worm I've ever met.
which of us is that?
You're such a mean jerkface :(
u wot m8
I think he is letting off steam here instead of commenting lol :p
13:40
@rubenvb Oh, people here get together also when you are not agreeing with their feminist world views.
Show 48 more comments
did you finish painting all your bsg pieces, btw?
-2
Q: How is for() loop maintained inside stack?

Ruchirvery basic codes : //Code#1 int i; int counterONE=0; for(i=0;i<5;i++) { counterONE+=1; } cout<<counterONE; Code#2 int i,j; int CounterONE=0,counterTWO=0; for(i=0;i<5;i++) { for(j=0;j<...

dat mix of formatting
I hate it when people say "codes"
"can you look over my codes"
"I wrote some codes here"
@AlexM. Yes! I hate that!
13:41
@R.MartinhoFernandes Sorry.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit It's the LoC Mess
@Rerito Nah, I was just jokingly trying to start a fight in here.
you are not doing it right
@jalf Not yet. The replacements FFG sent me arrived, so now I can paint everything.
@chmod711telkitty The expert talking here!
13:42
@R.MartinhoFernandes can't even do that properly...
Still have to paint vipers and raptors.
I have one almost finished viper.
ooh
Sounds like you're reenacting the show, almost
@AndyProwl Bartek has joined the game
Why is the question protected by gnat anyways?
I'm missing a few details like the engine exhausts and a glossy coat on the cockpit.
13:44
@R.MartinhoFernandes you're a bad evil genius
wait. Does that actually make you a "good evil genius"?
@BartekBanachewicz is that a neutral genius?
is that a (bad evil) genius or a bad (evil(genius))? or a bad (evil genius) maybe?
@jalf I'll post pics when I'm done.
The viper I have looks awesome.
@BartekBanachewicz welcome! :P
this comment thread will get purged soon anyway
13:48
Could we flag him for trolling? =°
> Valve's former economist is now Greece's finance minister pcgamer.com/…
lol
@AlexM. old news
> Varoufakis himself is seen as a radical—one who has referred to austerity measures as "fiscal waterboarding".
> 48 minutes ago
@thecoshman k
13:49
just between u n me, kz? coz I am too embarrassed 2 tell any 1 else, that it's incredibly nice to hug a fat, fluffy gentle chicken. It's like hug a warm, soft toy who is capable of looking at you and maybe thinking that you are such a pervert .. dunno, she could be just thinking where to peck me
ugh, the "add comment" and "add answer" buttons are way too close
There's something wrong with you when you graduate from teddy bears to live chickens primarily because the chicken is capable of looking at you like you're a pervert.
@Abyx what no they're not
there's a huge fucking textarea between them
You guys have any references for how to name stuff? Like, compare:
> If you define a variable without any special modifiers, and what you get is a reference type, it is a reference type. If you define a variable without any special modifiers, and what you get is a value type, it is a value type
wot
13:52
 Signal<> FinishedUpdates and  Signal<> UpdatesFinished
is he talking about C++?
> // this is class. not struct.
lol
@Abyx That's the "Add Another Answer" button. It's a completely different button to the one you said.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit ok
@Pris style guides are two a penny. just be consistent.
@AndyProwl some problem?
@AndyProwl why are you asking us
13:54
@AndyProwl Sort of. He's identifying that C++ simply doesn't do the former case, contrary to Puppy's suggestion
@BartekBanachewicz Because I seem to have problems communicating effectively with him
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I don't understand what he means
@AndyProwl and on the contrary, we're able to communicate our points to him clearly and unambiguously so that he understands our points
@AndyProwl You're not alone
It reads like "If you get a potato, then it's a potato. But if you get a banana then it's a banana"
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Puppy's suggestion, as far as I understood, is that a type's semantics (value vs reference) are not determined by that type's definition - at least by default, at a language level. I think that's correct, and I think I don't understand the guy's objection to it.
Talking about value vs reference types in C++ is just weird. It's a C# distinction
13:59
indeed
oooh, CD Projekt says they target 30FPS for Witcher 3
I wonder if this will cause shitstorms
or a D one
also
> EA Will Charge For Gas In Need For Speed: No Limits As Part Of Its Ongoing Effort To Make Games As Mundane And Annoying As Real Life androidpolice.com/2015/01/26/…
ahahaha
Also to comment a bit on yout The code is simple, concise, explicit, and efficient. - Extremely meh. That could maybe pass in 1995, but in 2015, with higher order programming already popular, dataset.withControlsDisabled(lambda { LoadData(dataset); }) is way better. — Bartek Banachewicz 14 secs ago
also my opinion on his delphi example ^
I concur that the lambda is clearly superior
user1804599
14:05
agaggaagagagrarggrgrrg fucking python
user1804599
generators are such a horrible abstraction
user1804599
jesus christ why would you want a sequence you can only iterate once
ok, I'm leaving the neverending discussion
<lameexcuse>it has completely drowned my productivity today</lameexcuse>
My productivity is at its lowest because... Debug some Java code I didn't even participate in before
Doh...
@Puppy dunno why anyone hasn't mentioned it before actually
also @AndyProwl he didn't get it at all
did we just link to the same comment
Damn it
and yeah, "you would have to code up an entire class" is wrong. In C++ we have lambda expressions for it. — Abyx 2 hours ago
@BartekBanachewicz oh really?
@LightnessRacesinOrbit oh well. My bad. But his comment could've used an example anyway - that's only why I missed it probably
let's invite him here @Lig
TIL "abstraction inversion" has a very definition
14:12
@sehe the one that incidentally fits this guy needs :P
Also. Come on. We're in danger of posting more content on that comment thread alone, than a month of SO traffic combined
I agree that a chatroom would've been better
alright now whatever he writes, I'm done
user1804599
Nice.
user1804599
> say 1, 2, 4 ... 256;
1 2 4 8 16 32 64 128 256
14:19
> encyclopedeaize
user1804599
lol
user1804599
> say 1, 2, 4 ... 257;
1 2 4 8 16 32 64 128 256 512 1024 2048 4096 8192 16384 32768 65536 131072 262144 524288 1048576 2097152 4194304 8388608 16777216 33554432 67108864 134217728 268435456 536870912 1073741824 2147483648 4294967296 8589934592 17179869184 34359738368 68719476736 137438953472 274877906944 549755813888 1099511627776 2199023255552 4398046511104 8796093022208 17592186044416 35184372088832 70368744177664 140737488355328 281474976710656 562949953421312 1125899906842624 2251799813685248 4503599627370496 9007199254740992 18014398509481984 36028797018963968 72057594037927936 1441151
how do you infer the logic that generates the series?
which series
Chat. Room. Please.Lightness Races in Orbit 9 mins ago
14:21
@BartekBanachewicz in @рытфолд's example
@LightnessRacesinOrbit who the heck are you to tell us what we should do?
user1804599
> Without a generator, and more than one initial element, and all initial elements numeric, the sequence operator tries to deduce the generator. It knows about arithmetic and geometric sequences.
@AndyProwl it's probably another heuristic processor he likes so much (i.e. how to write a program that solves a problem more or less)
Damnit where's the sparkling Bjarne gif?!
@рытфолд So it doesn't document which kind of sequences it can deduce?
oh, this is your thing?
user1804599
14:22
@AndyProwl No.
@AndyProwl apparently he thinks that object slicing must occur with stackbased variables (always) and this violates LSP :/ Waving the white flag :)
@рытфолд What about 1 3 5 7 11 .. 31, does it keep spitting primes?
it should use OEIS
that would be perfect.
user1804599
> It knows about arithmetic and geometric sequences.
ah
I see
user1804599
14:24
> say 1, 3, 5, 7, 11 ... 31;
Unable to deduce arithmetic or geometric sequence from 5,7,11 (or did you really mean '..'?)
@Abyx lol
@Abyx I am your god.
@BartekBanachewicz noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
@BartekBanachewicz it's kinda too late now unfortunately. AFAIK mods can't migrate existing comments to chat
(even though SE obviously has the hooks for it)
@MasonWheeler "Stack-based objects are inherently evil" - in other words, C++ is inherently evil because it's not C#, D, Java or what-have-you. I'll repeat my apples and pearssehe just now
@sehe Maybe. It also seems to me he doesn't see a use case for taking something by reference/pointer unless there are virtual methods to call on the argument
your std::vector example isn't great
std::vector has value semantics; period
accessing it indirectly through pointers or references doesn't change that
@AndyProwl Actually, I think he argues the inverse. The fact that objects /can/ be taken by value seems for him to be evil (because it doesn't allow runtime polymorphism through that interface at that time? So, LSP indeed doesn't apply there)
14:29
C++ confuses things by having references that aren't themselves objects, so the traditional nomenclature is very hard to defend
ultimately, what we can all take away from this is WHO THE SHITTING FUCK CARES?!?!
@LightnessRacesinOrbit twisting words. The vector doesn't have reference semantics. The (reference) variable does.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit You do
@sehe Delphi in this case.
lol Delphi
nice place, obsolete language
Also, one of his examples (the "EnableControls")? That's a shitty way to handle UI.
@sehe That seemed to be his claim in the beginning of the discussion indeed, but then he clarified that he recognizes the importance of value semantics
14:33
You don't load your data in the UI thread.
@sehe And eventually he steered to "why reference semantics if there are no virtual functions". At least I think that's what he's saying.
@FredOverflow yea
And try/finally doesn't help there (RAII wouldn't as well).
@MasonWheeler Hah. You've said it. It's not about finally at all. It's about the fact that you dislike C++. You make it "objective" by the method that you rule out any use case where all this cruft you cite doesn't apply. Apples. And. Fucking. Pears.sehe 11 secs ago
14:34
@EtiennedeMartel who said it's in the same thread?
@sehe Yeah
@FredOverflow This is your fair warning, you may DOS your browser by clicking that link
@BartekBanachewicz Unless Delphi does something weird, look at the flow.
there should be a little dial indicating the collective amount of mad in the chat at any given instant
@sehe aaaand flagged as not an answer
user1804599
14:35
Right, this reminds me.
a mad-ometer
@EtiennedeMartel I mean there's no reason that it couldn't act like a coroutine, no?
user1804599
I should change the syntax of try/finally in LasagnaScript.
yielding on LoadData
Even then you're handling both logic and UI in the same bit of code.
That control enabling shit should go in the view.
14:36
3 minutes to mad-night
@Pris It's always at infinity. (Sometimes negative)
Man, looks like you guys are bored this morning.
user1804599
Stackful coroutine master race.
@SamDeHaan au contraire
I also really need to get to work.
YOU GUYS
14:36
@sehe eh hem. Man, you guys were bored this morning.
user1804599
@EtiennedeMartel work motivation
I'm not a weakling.
@рытфолд Hardest button to click ever
Anyway, gotta go. I'll see you guys in half an hour.
14:39
sehe's comment got flagged to oblivion, I see
I don't understand why you people have to use swear words in order to make your fucking point
@sehe did you delete that comment?
38 secs ago, by Lightness Races in Orbit
sehe's comment got flagged to oblivion, I see
ah
it feels weird to disagree with someone who claims C++ is a complicated mess, but he's giving the wrong arguments
> you people have to use swear words in order to make your fucking point
I love the irony
btw what's POLS?
ah, surprise
I knew it as POLA
user1804599
14:43
I thought I'd write sub is-even(Int $x) { so grep * eq $x, (0, 2 ... *) }.
user1804599
But then I figured my is-even function would never terminate for odd inputs. :(
@AndyProwl nope
Ah. Familiar with the principle, not the acronym. — Oded ♦ Jul 17 '14 at 13:43
user1804599
POLA is good, but never rate it higher than consistency and correctness.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Confusing people since Jul 17 '14 at 13:43
14:46
@BartekBanachewicz don't have the implementation at hand, but it seems that way, at least any and all are in Control.Foldable
POLA and consistency are related
@AndyProwl :D
i couldn't find the Haskel equivalent of none_of tho :/
Good morning everyone.
all                     :: (a -> Bool) -> [a] -> Bool
#ifdef USE_REPORT_PRELUDE
any p                   =  or . map p
all p                   =  and . map p
#else
any _ []        = False
any p (x:xs)    = p x || any p xs

all _ []        =  True
all p (x:xs)    =  p x && all p xs
@gnzlbg
@gnzlbg oh come on, that's not . any
@gnzlbg It's IO :: Monad -> Maybe Maybe None [a -> b || False xs y] -> Maybe Yes -> Maybe No ::Monad []
14:47
@AndyProwl He's missing all the good parts of C++. That's why we are triggered, I guess
@BartekBanachewicz USE_REPORT_PRELUDE What is this now, COBOL?
@sehe most probably refers to Haskell Report
user1804599
REPORT DIVISION.
@sehe Yeah, actually Robot tried to make this point but he more or less ignored it.
@BartekBanachewicz not . any == none yep, but i started of the premise that any and all are syntax sugar for fold, so i was looking for none and was a bit disappointed not to find it
@gnzlbg They are functions.
14:51
@gnzlbg well as you can see the implementation in terms of map or simple recursion is... simple enough
there's no magic there
@LucDanton yes, my premise was wrong
Folds are not syntax.
@AndyProwl Welcome to my world.
@LucDanton i know, i just thought it would made sense, like you can implement any/all/none_of in C++ by calling accumulate
Jan 31 '14 at 15:38, by R. Martinho Fernandes
Also, why am I once again arguing against someone I agree with.
14:53
lol
@gnzlbg Sure. Still not syntax sugar.
@LucDanton by that i didnt meant language syntax, i meant they are not basic building blocks, not orthogonal to anything, they are just easier to type than a fold with a predicate + starting value
Reminds me of this episode.
Dec 20 '12 at 12:41, by R. Martinho Fernandes
So, I need a list of character names in French and German. I asked on the Unicode mailing list if there is one. Now instead of actual translations I have a non-native English speaker arguing that there is no use for character names in a language other than English, and a native English speaker arguing otherwise.
Esperluète.
14:58
@рытфолд sfw?
@LightnessRacesinOrbit yep
@sehe: No, C++ is inherently evil because it does things that are objectively harmful. It's not apples and pears, it's apples and nightshade berries. — Mason Wheeler 26 mins ago
> makes a rant without arguments
> "objectively harmful"
lol

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