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15:00
@AbhishekGupta Namespaces are not just organizational (and IMO, not even primarily organizational; std:: does have underwear in cupboards)
@Rerito meh. namespace aliases are typically better
@Mgetz Right, although e.g. std::map<std::string, std::vector<int>> is 15 more characters. Still irrelevant to me, I'm just playing "them"
@BartekBanachewicz They're very elegant indeed! :)
@AndyProwl auto and typedef
DRY
@Mgetz auto won't help if you don't have that type in the initializer
typedef won't help either I'm afraid
15:02
@AndyProwl if you're using it once then I don't care, if you're using it twice typedefing will help quite a bit because then you don't have to retype all that. If you're just getting it back from something else... auto
in haskell it's common to import modules as one-two letter aliases
> this client is experimental and by their nature it not has tests.
import qualified Control.Monad.State as S etc.
What about using declarations? I bet it is always the same symbols that are used over and over
@BartekBanachewicz similar is also done with python, and many languages too
15:03
I would love for C++ typedef or something similar to make named types not compatible with other types. A typedef int Foo; and a function with the signature Foo do_stuff(Foo x); would not accept ints.
@Mgetz typedef solves a broader problem (i.e. not repeating the whole thing), if there is something to repeat at all (mostly, there isn't). What they mind is that std:: is unnecessary
If it was unnecessary, it wouldn't exist
@ÓlafurWaage I've seen a proposal for adding strong typedefs
or a discussion thread
can't remember atm
@AndyProwl and that's where we disagree, I've had naming conflicts pop up on me. They suck, horrendously because either you get a massive message from the compiler... or you have linking issues. The latter is worse
15:04
@Mgetz Yes, I agree with you. They prefer handling those when they occur
By flattening namespaces you can create overloads with funny behaviour
@AndyProwl I prefer writing Jimmy Proof code that is less likely to break
@CatPlusPlus Example please.
Name clashes are one thing, but ad hoc OR sets that make your calls into something else entirely and silently
@AbhishekGupta distance
15:05
Don't flatten namespaces
@Mgetz Or you just get some wrong overload being picked and everything compiling silently.
@R.MartinhoFernandes right, forgot about that... which is the absolute worst result
Overloading and implicit conversions make this unsafe as fuck
@Mgetz So do I
@AndyProwl I currently can wrap types into a class with only 1 member but strong typedefs would solve problems where sending in a value with a different business logic meaning than the function espects.
15:07
this woman was badass
Saint Olga (Old Church Slavonic: Ольга, born c. 890 died 11 July 969, Kiev) was a ruler of Kievan Rus' as regent (945–c. 963) for her son, Svyatoslav. == Early life == Olga, a woman from Pskov, married the future Igor of Kiev, arguably in 903. The Primary Chronicle gives 879 as her date of birth, which is unlikely, given the birth of her only son probably some 65 years after that date. After Igor's death, Olga ruled Kievan Rus as regent (945-c. 963) on behalf of their son Svyatoslav. She was, hypothetically, of Varangian extraction Old Norse: Helga == Drevlian Uprising == The following account...
erm. This is also the correct version. Care to explain yours? — sehe 6 secs ago
Good job saving 1ms per identifier not typing std:: and creating extremely brittle code in the process
tribe kills her husband
she goes on to kill the whole tribe
@рытфолд I implemented a 2.5D Tetris in D1 once, but it was a pain to talk to OpenGL back then.
@FredOverflow it's still a pain to talk to OpenGL
15:08
@рытфолд Is it fair to say that modern JavaScript is build on language hacks?
@BartekBanachewicz I wouldn't know, haven't tried since.
@CatPlusPlus It's not just about typing though. They don't want to read those :: and stuff
lol modern
@AndyProwl
consider i you add files like
fooSimple.cpp
barSimple.cpp
SomeBigComplex.cpp

if you used using ns std; in simple ones , you never know as it can accedentally pop up in your complex.cpp
it confuses them or something
cf idiots
15:09
@BartekBanachewicz Just slightly, if you use Derelict.
@Mgetz and happens all the time. Just use Phoenix + std::bind, or even boost::cref vs std::cref vs boost::phoenix::cref? Not to mention boost::begin/std::begin. boost::spirit::qi::string.
Make them a short TU that includes several headers that go to 2-3 levels deep and define some std identifier that's a better overload there
And ask them about the behaviour
@AndyProwl what do you want instead?
@sehe I want to convince them to type std:: and not use using namespace at namespace level. If really necessary or convenient, I'd allow them using it at function scope.
A proper use of using decl/directives and not just for the sake of laziness
15:12
@AndyProwl I don't even allow function scope, you can alias... but not get rid of it
holy shit
I answered a lot of shitty questions I guess
@E_net4 but in that case you're in the pain of using D, so that hardly matters anyway
15:14
@BartekBanachewicz What a wisely chosen example O:)
52.8%
Accepted Answers? , people still mark that?
15:15
but with a very low average score
@AbhishekGupta uh yes
nothing above 10
27.1 AND very low average score. Guess I'm the black sheep
38.8 %
how do you see the average score?
15:16
But heh, don't we all have answers to questions that have no accepted answer at all?
34.9%
you can either query for it... or just know that your answers largely suck
The number of times I gave a shit about the OP's problem and he was just interested in a working implementation to cpy/paste... Sigh.
@BartekBanachewicz !
@AlexM. bros 4life
15:17
@AndyProwl I use it at function scope. I'm really eclectic. My driving guideline is elegance. But I don't want to be left guessing what is selected from where
@BartekBanachewicz you know it
23.07
but i'm just nobody so :p
WHOOSH. What did you change. You're not helping anyone by "magically" supplying working code if you don't even explain what you fixed. — sehe just now
Fuck. I wasn't obvious enough
@E_net4 Not counted in there.
Oh.
15:18
41.9%. Not bad
Doesn't change the fact that it's a nuisance.
    Posts q
  INNER JOIN
    Posts a ON q.AcceptedAnswerId = a.Id
@sehe Undetected sarcasm, try again
Only posts that have another posted marked as accepted count.
@sehe as if using irony and non-obvious references when talking with noobs you're trying to teach basics of using SO was to be effective
15:19
> And please format your code, it's unreadable
Oh, wait, no.
That was funny though. I like being bossed around :)
It divides by your total answer count.
Yes it was
15:20
no idea how that's possible but apparently my acceptance rate is higher than Jon Skeet's
5
@E_net4 noobs
lol 17k SLOC
@BartekBanachewicz Not our code. It was a single developer who made this many years ago.
Did you generate that horror by hand @sehe ?
Do I look like I'm silly?
15:21
@E_net4 must link quite fast
Even Goblin Camp's infamous NPC dot cpp which is 111 fucking kilobytes of code is just 3k SLOC
@FredOverflow 42.5%
If you have a source file that's 600 goddamn kilobytes then you should stop programming asap
@BartekBanachewicz hehe
@sehe That's not what I'm implying...
D'oh you're grumpy today
15:23
@Rerito undetected snarkism :)
It's GNU cutils (cobfusc)
@CatPlusPlus No need to expose coding advice now. It's much too late. :P
@Rerito mirror handy? I was making an obvious joke :/
Guess my sarcasm sensor is broken too
I broke it
@CatPlusPlus impressive
What can I say, I won snack overflow
2
15:25
@Rerito you're the freen frog, duh
Yeah a really dumb frog that spends its time chasing after candy
@E_net4 it's never too late for a refactor
@BartekBanachewicz Sure, but one better grab a full team with enough time and patience. :P
I have more important things to do than focus on OpenNotrium.
if by that you mean "don't work with dumb people in shitty conditions" then yes
I just place some tweaks and fixes every once in a while.
15:27
@E_net4 wait you mean you actually modify that thing?
@BartekBanachewicz if there are no tests, it might be too late
@AndyProwl it's never too late for adding tests, either :)
@BartekBanachewicz I've contributed to the project, sure. It's not the first time I messed with carpy code.
It's always too late
Dude, my eyes!
15:28
@BartekBanachewicz eh, that depends how much effort a team/company can afford
The goggles do nothing!
Thanks, Cat. :3
Can we have a few reopen votes here stackoverflow.com/a/27924177/85371 ? I edited to remove the "homework solving" part
15:29
not closed?
vote cast
I can't cast votes sigh
@BartekBanachewicz the answer, silly. Did you watch the anti-epileptic GIF a little too much?
@sehe enjoy
Cheers!
15:31
Skál
Interestingly, deleting/undeleting doesn't show up in the timeline stackoverflow.com/posts/27924138/timeline
print(f (product(map read $ words n :: [Int])))
damn, it's so hard to read
print(f > printf
@ÓlafurWaage Shit he redeleted 70s ago
15:34
print $ f i
  where i = product . map read $ words n :: Int
@sehe hard core stuff
since when is haha offensive
2
anyhoops, initialize your ans array (e.g. int ans[7] = {0}). — sehe 7 secs ago
@ÓlafurWaage I haven't a clue. Not even what you're talking about
> harhar
Not even close :)
@sehe I keep getting flags to review
Stupid stuff from other rooms
Dunno why
Sadly this also relies on the C global locale, a better alternative would be to use the c++ std::isalnum which takes a locale as a parameter and thus doesn't rely on global state. — Mgetz 3 mins ago
Me too m8. You said something that didn't connect up
15:37
ack so
@Mgetz and make the loop var unsigned char, so we don't get sign extension artefacts on passing as int into isalnumsehe 34 secs ago
I need to get up earlier, it's 17 and I only have 3 hours logged
@CatPlusPlus oopsie. Work until 22 today?
Surprised Mike Seymour doesn't have this bit of trivia archived
I'm getting out in an hour
15:39
Does this sound good?
> Using directives are problematic because they inject an unbounded amount of names into the current scope. If the directive is at namespace level (even inside a .cpp file), this is likely to make matters worse by affecting a larger portion of the code; in any case, injecting a potentially unbounded number of overloads into the current scope could result in compiler errors (annoying), linker errors (more annoying), or even run-time errors (extremely annoying, once spotted). “using” directives make code more fragile in the event of future inclusion of new header files - possibly from 3rd pa
I go mad if I don't program :O
@AndyProwl s/Using directives/using namespace directives/
@AndyProwl more or less ok
@sehe Isn't "using directive" the technical name for that?
using x = ...
15:40
that's an alias
@AndyProwl no. using std::cout; // not unbounded
Xeo
Xeo
@FredOverflow 48.35%
@sehe that's a using declaration
@AndyProwl Also, nice to note that even /future/ declarations into using-ed namespace will be part of the using-ing namespace
@AndyProwl Yes. Something like using std::cout; is a using declaration instead. Nonetheless, I agree with @sehe, simply because so few know the terminology.
15:41
@AndyProwl Yo. Teach your students that. #pedantry
@sehe good comment
@JerryCoffin got it
@JerryCoffin I agree with me, simply because I don't know the terminology!
Xeo
Xeo
@CatPlusPlus Our worst file only brings 11k to the table :<
No wait, 12.6k actually
@ÓlafurWaage All 10k+ users do.
Also, hi, haven't seen you in a while.
15:44
We had the same problem recently. We traced it to an error in the mysql c++ wrapper so we built our own around the mysql c library. — Richard Hodges 32 mins ago
makes total sense. Don't live with broken windows! Just replace the facade.
@RilDank That should be in the question. Partly because then people can read it without having a seizure — sehe 5 secs ago
@AndyProwl How about you delete all your answers that weren't accepted? Then you have an accept rate of 100%!
@R.MartinhoFernandes Arg, all this responsibility
A London company reaching the limits of Ruby and switching to #Haskell. Looking for developers: http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/2ple1j/looking_for_haskell_developers_in_london_to_work/
cc @Ell @Jefffrey
The guy reminds me of Santana
Xeo
Xeo
> in Bristol, UK, on April 21-25, 2015.
15:49
@BartekBanachewicz it's just insane. there are a lot of languages which are similar to Ruby (more than Haskell) but faster. Even Java should do.
Xeo
Xeo
ohey, chance for a mini-meetup (^ ACCU schedule)
@Rerito I read that as "Satan"
lol
bartek uses h1 for "no" in the answer
I just want to emphasize the "NO" even more. Monads allow you to do a lot more than just adding impure functions would. — augustss 1 min ago
@Abyx Insane, brave, it's all the same. I, however, don't remember reading that they chose Haskell for being similar to Ruby.
15:52
@FredOverflow I would lose very valuable internet dollar points
> "reaching the limits of Ruby"
Almost as good as checked with Valgrind
@Abyx Don't know why Java would be a better choice than Haskell for them.
@BartekBanachewicz They don't have to post on r/haskell to find candidates.
@Rerito Until he starts talking. Be sure to stick around, because it can take awhile before he's actually started
welp normally you don't want to rewrite all the code to FP just because you're "reaching the limits"
15:54
> normally
image about a weird problem i.sstatic.net/Dcfsf.png
yes, and if you wend mad - then maybe you do
> This job indeed involves Haskell. Pusher was created in a ruby shop (New Bamboo) and so was firstly written using Ruby. We are now at what we think are the limits of Ruby for system like ours and so we are moving on to "greener pastures". We are currently rebuilding core pieces of our system and infrastructure in Haskell.
Why are there squiggly lines around the cout and cin yet my program still runs?
@Abyx Ruby has a lot of FP traits. Their codebase might be already strongly functional for all we know.
15:55
ok
@DonLarynx Intellisense sometimes works, and sometimes doesn't.
@DonLarynx IntelliSense is a finicky thing.
@DonLarynx Because the compiler doesn't read the squiggly lines
Ok, thanks @milleniumbug @EtiennedeMartel @sehe
16 mins ago, by Andy Prowl
> Using directives are problematic because they inject an unbounded amount of names into the current scope. If the directive is at namespace level (even inside a .cpp file), this is likely to make matters worse by affecting a larger portion of the code; in any case, injecting a potentially unbounded number of overloads into the current scope could result in compiler errors (annoying), linker errors (more annoying), or even run-time errors (extremely annoying, once spotted). “using” directives make code more fragile in the event of future inclusion of new header files - possibly from 3rd pa
15:56
@DonLarynx std::
@DonLarynx Disable IntelliSense.
so basically: don't use using namespace std;?
Apparently I got 256 rep today
what a nice number
but I think some of it is because of reversed vlad's spree
hm, 76
still way far from repcap
16:00
I know I asked before, but is there a tool for merging 3-way diffs in that <<< HEAD ... === common ... >>> upstream format?
You mean like kdiff3?
TortoiseDiff can do it IIRC
yeah, but kdiff3 and others accept 3 files when I have only one
Yes you need 3 files for 3-way diff
That's why it's called 3-way diff
welp then I need something to split single file into 3
16:04
Oh dear. Eargasm you guys. Oh my god bless your little hearts if you don't click this link. youtube.com/watch?v=dICTJREp_pY
What you need is the original context the merge with conflicts was done in
I guess I just have to gain more in depth experience with Monads to understand your answer - nonetheless maybe there is a simplified, yet concrete example to clarify your point? — Raffael 47 secs ago
ffs
@DonLarynx I don't want your god to bless anything of mine
I suddenly understood this
Always with the monads... monads monads monads. I'm tired of explaining monads.
@tripleee: FYI I removed those spaces you inserted into my answer because not having them was intentional. — martineau 7 hours ago
16:05
Lol. *Our God
hmm
does MSVC only have variadics in 2013 and 2012 CTP?
Don't ask me.
@Puppy yep, IIRC
Xeo
Xeo
@Puppy buggyadics
they would have been good enough for a simple func_ptr<void()>::type style dealie.
ah yes, excellent.
Xeo
Xeo
Don't even need variadics for that
also, alias<void()>::type*
no template aliases
Xeo
Xeo
Only parsing rules stop you from doing void()*
ah well ::type would still be fine.
Xeo
Xeo
16:11
@Puppy That's an identity meta function
oh fuck fucking C++/CLI
this shit was written by a monkey.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Thank you for bringing this to my attention.
oh, looks like I found it
1
Q: visual tool to resolve conflicts merged into a single file

YehosefI did a git merge and ended up with a file like that looks like this: class member extends item{ /********CONSTANTS**********/ const is_flaggable = true; const is_commentable = false; const is_ratable = false; const table = 'member'; <<<<<<< HEAD const table_about = 'm...

@R.MartinhoFernandes I don't get how he could think this might be a good idea
dammit, tkdiff supports only 2-way merge
16:21
> GHC's implementation of IO wrappers up the side-effectfulness of GHC's implementation of I/O. Even that is a terrible design decision of GHC --- imperative (which is different than impure!) I/O can be modeled monadically without impurity at any level of the system. You don't need side effects (at any layer of the system) to do I/O!
well well well
> thanks for the lead
@LightnessRacesinOrbit what?
306 rep woo
306-76 = 230. With two accepts, that's exactly on repcap
can't answer anymore today :S
@Abyx what what?
@Bartek Where did the 76 come from, then?
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I don't get your comment
16:33
@Abyx I don't get what's confusing about it
8
A: Spaces around code keywords

Lightness Races in OrbitYes, of course those code keywords should be surrounded by spaces. It's entirely baffling to me that anyone could claim otherwise and not be trolling.

@LightnessRacesinOrbit vlad unspree
@BartekBanachewicz hah
@LightnessRacesinOrbit nvm.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit ok
16:34
@Abyx alright
what a moron.
@AndyProwl i.sstatic.net/9I3yf.gif so syn match Keyword 'std::' conceal cchar=⋮ is your friend!
3
@sehe nice
I've seen a presentation once about a non-existing editor that allows switching representations
@sehe Starring so I can find it in the future.
16:37
e.g. shortened names vs full names
So. You give the students a choice! Use Vim, -or- see std:: every-fucking-where
#2 is clearly infinitely superior
@AndyProwl Well, this one is existing.
I don't have students though
Just colleagues
@Puppy No contest. But choice gives the feeling of empowerment, which allows for greater happiness!
@AndyProwl Oh. m.m. then
I'm not redoing the gif!
16:39
that's all right. Also, I doubt forcing people to use Vim would be effective here
Who said forcing? It's an excellent solution to their troubles
we have a custom build system that integrates with VS2013
Dat awkward moment when hitting the standby button fails and Haydn's string quartet starts playing instead. Loudly
We have cookies that sound like breaking glass.
I'm not impressed.
Gotta run :/
compile, link, and run!
(I was not trying to impress you)
@sehe Consider using a warp drive instead.
16:45
yay, Enlightened
user1804599
Bleh.
fuck C++/CLI.
user1804599
try { throw e; } catch { case _ if false => …; } now throws a match error instead of e. Gotta fix that.
lol
Vlad is still alive in the Asylum
> I am sorry for my silly question. What is Urbana?
@AndyProwl vs vim?
16:52
@Mgetz interesting
no idea if it does what you want
I know a lot of people like it though
I have never used Vim, so I have no idea either
I can't see that syn command in the list of features though
@sehe If you think vim is the solution, you've clearly done a poor job of identifying the problem. :-)
@AndyProwl #urlplz
lol students using vim
16:53
@LightnessRacesinOrbit there
back in the OS class
all but one of my classmates turned from vim to nano
after not getting the hang of it
> Also, it is a small city in Illinois, USA, which contains most of a large university.
David wins.
@AndyProwl It's syntax
He did it right.
@CatPlusPlus still not in the feature list I'm browsing
unless I'm browsing something irrelevant
16:55
Emulators tend to be incomplete and shitty
Apparently you didn't look at how it's displayed in the screenshots on my desktop. Going in and editing my post again is basically vandalism as far as I'm concerned. — martineau 1 min ago
/cc @BartekBanachewicz @R.MartinhoFernandes

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