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15:00
@jalf What is gross?
Cheese worms.
@VáclavZeman You mean other than refusing to believe them unless they prove their identity to you?
user2848971
is std::array just a C array on the stack? Or does it new it one time?
@Ben std::array is actually a linked list or binary tree depending on your compiler. All its operations are O(log(n)).
user2848971
@BenjaminGruenbaum please stop trolling me
15:02
@VáclavZeman the fact that you seem to see women as nothing more than some kind of fuck-bots that exist purely for your delight and convenience. The fact that you justify how you treat women on the internet by "surely there are girls on the internet that will want to get laid"
@jalf I have already said it few time and I will say it again, for your sake, they do not have to prove anything, they do not know about my mind's state. Sometimes the interaction is conclusive enough, sometimes I find out indirectly, etc. I do not ask anybody on the Internet whether they are man or woman.
user1804599
@Ben It just stores T elements[N]; as member internally.
user1804599
With special case for N == 0.
user2848971
@rightføld okay thanks
@jalf Is it gross to you that I assume you are Caucasian unless I see proof for otherwise?
15:04
... yes?
Why do you have to assume anything about anything
It's completely irrelevant
@VáclavZeman Yes, that's a really dumb assumption
user2848971
okay i'm going to bed now cya guys i'll log in again tomorrow hopefully this has been fun night
it is gross to divide the world into "normal people" and "people who are not normal"
@VáclavZeman the solution here is to stop making dumb assumptions
15:06
Why would you care if someone on the internet is white, or man? I don't really care about these things online.
@CatPlusPlus Because my mind and my imagination works that way. I think you are a white dude using a cat with spectacles and a moustache for an avatar. My imagination puts a white dudes face behind the avatar. How is that gross or any how wrong.
@TheForestAndTheTrees I disagree about it being dumb assumption.
There's a reason why I don't use my ~~real~~ name
@VáclavZeman Well, tough luck for you.
Because it's not relevant
user1804599
Piotr Plus Plus
Ell
Ell
15:07
plot twist, @VáclavZeman is an independent black woman that don't need no man
3
Hahaha on Spotify just now: "Fucked Up World"
@jalf Geez. You are twisting my words and position. "the fact that you seem to see women as nothing more than some kind of fuck-bots that exist purely for your delight and convenience." Not true.
@VáclavZeman You said that you saw nothing wrong in your behavior because of the assumption that there exist women on the internet who want to get laid
@CatPlusPlus That is fine with me. I am not saying anything about that.
I can get people who hit on women online. It's hard to find a SO anyway, and people chatting in the same places as you would likely share interests
15:09
In other words, how you treat all women can be determined by how you treat women you want to fuck
@jalf how you treat people is determined somewhat by how you treat people you want something from, yes.
user1804599
Yum, salami with pepper.
@VáclavZeman It is a dumb assumption because people who are not caucasian, or people who are not men, don't want to be told that they are "not normal", that they are a special case, some kind of outlier, something that is assumed to not exist except when they demand otherwise.
@jalf You seem to be assuming that in the conversation that happened all those years ago I was assuming things without evidence. Well, the other person who turned out to be a dude was...signalling interest, etc. It was not one sided.
@CatPlusPlus Peeeeeete.
Also your last name is totally your hometown.
Can't fool me.
15:12
@VáclavZeman You seem to be assuming that I'm talking about what you did when you were 19
I'm talking about here and now
@jalf Again, more assumptions and twisting of my words and position. I have never told anybody they were not normal. I do not think of women as abnormal.
@VáclavZeman That is exactly what you're saying when you assume all humans to be caucasian men
@jalf No, it is not.
"this is normal. Unless you say otherwise, that's what I believe you are"
user1804599
Women are so great I wish I were one.
15:14
Someone calculate the probability of that actually being true
I'm bad at math
we need a single entity that is capable of benchmarking people and giving them an appropriate role in our society
You seriously don't see anything wrong in dividing women into two groups, "people", and "women who I either want to fuck, or want to avoid getting hurt by"? The only way you can treat women as people is to assume they're men
maybe then people will stop with this sexism nonsense
user1804599
@AlexM. ME ME ME
Yes let's call it AM
You want the short version? I think this room has shown that whatever you think, most people find what you're describing objectionable. So perhaps just keep it to yourself? Treat women as if you didn't care about their gender. Treat non-caucasians as if you didn't care about their skin color.
Ell
Ell
TIL about function try blocks
It's really that simple. You're free to mentally catalog all women as men if that makes it easier for you to treat them as humans. But perhaps don't say out loud to others on the internet "I assume people who claim to be women on the internet to be men, unless they prove otherwise"
Fuckin people have to taxonomise everything
@Ell what?
Like void f() try { something; } catch(...) {}?
@AlexM. Societies that have that don't seem any easier for people to live in.
img-thing
curious
0
Q: Fast reverse memcmp in C++11

ChiliI need to compare two char arrays as fast as possible and return which one is bigger. Normally I would use memcmp but unfortunately, there's only a pointer available for my tool pointing to the data stored in reverse order, or to the LSB in other words. I've already read this question: How to do ...

@jalf Again, this is not way I said. They do not have to prove anything.
@VáclavZeman Yes, they only have to prove something if they want you to believe that they are who they say they are
Again, you're free to assume that all women are men. But keep that to yourself. Treat them either as if you believe them to be women, or as if you weren't sure of their gender.
15:23
@jalf Enough evidence might be very little. It all depends on context and situation. And they do not have to do anything, might find out myself if I am so interested.
I also stalk people!
@VáclavZeman any evidence is too much. It is not their problem that you're paranoid
diditcrashyet
@EtiennedeMartel oooooh
15:24
what matters on the internet should be the message. not whether the person who said it has tits.
@jalf Ridiculous.
@VáclavZeman that says it all, really
Ell
Ell
exception_ptr is cool
@EtiennedeMartel Nice.
@cHao It depends. If the person is offering tit-related services, it is very important.
15:27
@Ell I have that around main :-) Thought it was pretty funky too when it worked XD
@R.MartinhoFernandes if they're offering tit-related services over the internet? barely. :) when things go offline, then it becomes important.
@jalf: If I have never stated what I did in my initial post, you would have never seen a difference in my treatment of anybody. The way you spun it is not who I am and how I do behave.
LOL
guys
"Categorie di Linguaggi di programmazione" -> "Programming languages categories"
"Compilati" -> "Compiled"
@jalf, may I rename to jalf and use your avatar?
"Interpretati" -> "Interpreted"
15:31
@Jefffrey I like how JavaScript is all over.
@Ben Nope. Embarcadero's BCC32 is the worst compiler.
I like how Haskell is "interpreted"
@VáclavZeman if i never said i was a racist, you wouldn't see a difference in how i treat people either. until, of course, a brown person showed up and didn't try to hide it.
Btw it's a slide from the "advanced programming languages" course in my uni.
15:32
Wait.
How is PHP embeddable?
One of the optional courses.
LaTeX is very compiled
@Jefffrey Lisp can be compiled to assembler as well, I think, with SBCL.
@CatPlusPlus Er, it is?
15:33
LaTeX programs are usually compiled into PDF programs.
MS is going to ship clang and cl side by side in VS2015
P sure TeX is a rare straight interpreter
I thought you guys taught me that "compiled languages" and "interpreted languages" are fallacies. That the way a language is used should not define its category.
@cHao Well, I have seen telkitty here and I think I did not treat here wrong or any differently than anybody else here, if you want a concrete sample of a "brown" person and my behaviour.
> support for the Clang compiler and LLVM infrastructure for targeting Android and, in a later iteration, iOS.
15:33
But it's dumb terminology anyway
@R.MartinhoFernandes Depends on what they mean by that
It's really dumb slide
So it's landing
@Mgetz Things can change. I will believe it when I see it! (@jalf: How can you spin this to make me look wrong?)
@R.MartinhoFernandes that's got to be a joke.
@VáclavZeman Clang won't target WIN32 initially
15:37
@Mgetz woah
I'm way more excited about this though
Whaaat! Microsoft is porting .NET to Linux and OSX? Hell has frozen over?
I think they're jumping the Windows ship :-p
@CatPlusPlus be less excited, it's Android and iOS initially, no work on WIN32 support
weird as hell though.
hopefully they will help the Clang team fix that though
@CatPlusPlus Well, Microsoft is a software company. People are developing for Linux based OSes, Microsoft just wants their share of the pie.
15:38
@CatPlusPlus Does that mean .NET isn't dead?
@VáclavZeman Ask yourself this: which self-respecting Linux developer will ever buy a proprietary compiler that isn't any better than GCC and/or/clang?
Woop woop managed is back!
@rubenvb The one that needs to feed his family and has to develop for Windows. :)
@VáclavZeman Again: why would you use a MS compiler for Linux?
@rubenvb Because you're using C#?
15:40
MS compiler is not paid for you butte
@CatPlusPlus That's true.
I like C#
Also commercial support
@EtiennedeMartel I'm talking about the C++ support.
@rubenvb We're talking about .NET here.
15:41
".NET Framework 4.6 & Reference Source source is being relicensed under MIT license, Mono (and you!) can use src code to the .NET Framework"
We're talking about .NET and you talk about C++
Why do you bring C++ into this?
@TonyTheLion I like that C# is usable with IntelliSense. The language itself is not more compelling than any other.
@EtiennedeMartel I wasn't.
Nobody cares about C++ jesus
15:41
lol
32 secs ago, by Etienne de Martel
Why do you bring C++ into this?
@CatPlusPlus yep hell just froze over
Mono can die now.
8 mins ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
> support for the Clang compiler and LLVM infrastructure for targeting Android and, in a later iteration, iOS.
Now all we need is a decent cross platform WPF implementation.
15:42
Clang is involved too.
Mono won't die, they'll probably both improve off each other
Sheesh.
apparently I'm in it too... as it's currently 0F/-17C outside
brrrrrrrrr
thats cold
> Feels Like -18 °C
15:43
@Mgetz It is 15 °C here.
WPF situation probably won't change unless MS directs the effort
Because nobody cares about WPF outside of Windows
@VáclavZeman that was us last week
And even inside of Windows
Web shells are all the rage now
Well, I hope it lasts for some more time. I hate winter and cold.
user1804599
15:46
Good.
Bad.
does assembly and c program use windows api to connect to hardware?
You are programmer, you tell me.
user1804599
user1804599
15:47
Question from 2008.
@programmer1 In the last decade, you could not get to hardware anyhow, unless you used some approved API.
Ell
Ell
Hmm
I never write dynamic exception specifications
I AM SUPER EXCITED
Ell
Ell
oh I'm not supposed to
@VáclavZeman no i'm reading windows internal and i want to know what is relation between programming language and os and hardware
15:50
@CatPlusPlus It is free to make organizations like LoungeCPP on github, right?
for example c# and vb use windows api to operate some work on hardware finally, but i don't know about C and c++!
@programmer1 It does not matter which programming language you use, the hardware can only be accessed through APIs.
Ell
Ell
haha
@programmer1 It's not really a question of the programming language, but of the operating system (or lack thereof). A decent multitasking OS will abstract the hardware. Code running on bare metal gets to deal directly with the hardware.
Well it looks like MS is going to push co-routines for C++17
15:54
You just don't pay attention to any C++-related stuff here.
And in those rare cases someone can post them manually
vOv
@VáclavZeman ok i know, for example company x for it's graphic card write driver and puplish in linux and windows version, but do i can write some driver myself
Based on the question, no
No, it's impossible for everyone to ever write drivers.
15:55
@programmer1 Yes but you have to have a separate DDK for that.
waht is ddk?
driver development kit?
I am quite close on getting the Populist badge
20
Q: Using `throw;` on a modified exception

Slodge MonsterI have a function foo that can throw a bar exception. In another function I call foo but I have the ability to add some more detail to the bar exception if thrown. (I'd rather not pass such information as a parameter to foo as it doesn't really belong there due to the generic nature of that func...

@programmer1 driver development kit
I'm quite close to not caring
15:55
Also
also also also
> The new Visual Studio Community 2013 edition is a full-featured IDE. It supports multiple project types in one solution file in a single IDE, and has all of the productivity features and IDE extensibility capabilities (meaning you can use Xamarin, ReSharper, VsVim, and any other VSIX extension) that developers love in Visual Studio.
@TonyTheLion So you do care? How nice
@Columbo Good catch
wait, so they got rid of the express version's no-plugins restriction?
spiffy.
15:56
rip VSExpress nobody will miss you
only thing i really truly hated about express
And it'll be free for individual commercial usage too
Im just so pissed of that he got the accepted answer, but now I see the positive side
@CatPlusPlus WTF happened.
@CatPlusPlus Thank God they finally announced it. Two weeks ago, they told us about it on the MVP mailing list. I had to go to my boss with a "I can't tell you why, but you really don't want to buy licenses for VS right now."
15:57
@JerryCoffin I see the garbage collector was invoked
@JerryCoffin Do you qualify though
@R.MartinhoFernandes Must be the comet
Isn't community edition for Students only?
@TonyTheLion No
> It is now available completely free for:
>
> Any individual developer working on a commercial or non-commercial project
> Any developer contributing to an open source project
> Anyone in an academic research or course setting (e.g. students, teachers, classroom, online course)
> Any non-enterprise organization with 5 or fewer developers working on a commercial/non-commercial project together
@CatPlusPlus Not sure--I'll have to read the license carefully. At the time they were saying it would be free to startups. Will have to read the details to know if we qualify.
Guess that last one is startups
What are you doing in a startup
That's the interesting question here
@CatPlusPlus Sounds like a bid to kill the people gaming bizspark for free VS ultimate
> Free unlimited private repos
user1804599
> It has never been a better time to be a software developer.
Wow they're going all the way
Sounds really nice
16:01
rip Java
2
@CatPlusPlus Whether we're a startup or not is open to question. We are around 50 people total, but the team I'm on is quite a bit smaller. Fewer than 5 working on a project together will mostly come down to a question of how you define a project.
lol will .NET be more open than Java
Ell
Ell
@CatPlusPlus lol
> Visual Studio Community 2013 includes all the great functionality of Visual Studio Professional 2013, designed and optimized for individual developers, students, open source contributors, and small teams.
Jesus christ they really are going all the way
user1804599
Oh the signal from the satellite arrived.
16:04
Now if only they had a real C++ compiler.
Ell
Ell
@CatPlusPlus is this available now?
Yes
@Griwes Nobody cares (also they're going to be shipping clang)
(in some time)
lol
(who cares)
yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Philae is down. In the good sense of "down".
16:05
xkcd did not update 0/10
So you are telling me writing C++ on windows will be possible soon-ish? :D
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Landed.
@VáclavZeman Yes, downwards.
Oh boy Flash Player crashed. How exciting.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Link?
16:07
@caps www.theinternet.com
Oh look, LRIO is back.
What's up?
@LightnessRacesinOrbit rolls eyes
The official press release is coming up; mission control is still evaluating the landing, but you missed the cheering and clapping already :)
@LucDanton lol
Search just showed news articles, no link to a live feed.
16:08
great. it's possible to land on a comet in space and to live-stream it, but it's not possible to watch it WITHOUT FLASH?!
6
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Hello
TOUCHDOWN for @Philae2014! #CometLanding http://t.co/ZMBeB8ng3h
statement coming now
2 hours ago, by Ben
bjarne would be turning in his grave at all these naked news and deletes
lol
news flash: bjarne ded
16:09
@Jefffrey lol
@Mgetz How far is it? What is the delay?
@R.MartinhoFernandes Thanks.
Something made a sound and I don't know what or why
HUH
what's happening
are you ok
@CatPlusPlus just your cat senses
16:13
RIP Cat
@CatPlusPlus Stream sound in the background? Speech guy whistled to get someone’s attention.
cat ded
I haven't had the stream open I don't think
he was such a nice and positive guy
16:13
yer haunted
any good open source projects out there?
It was IM-like sound, but I don't know which IM might have caused it
Thank god, you're still alive
Run, cat, run!
for now
No. All open-source projects are bad.
I can confirm
open source bad
Ell
Ell
wat
sigh any open sources projects out there that are worth the effort?
I think Battle for Wesnoth is cool.
holy shit! stackless coroutines in VC++2015
16:17
No. All open-source projects are worthless.
@LucDanton It's that fat parking-enforcement officer from downtown, whistling and guesturing 'YOU CANT PARK THERE!'.
in that case, good.
No one even knows what you want to do to those open-source projects.
How can anyone gauge if they are "worth the effort"?
@MartinJames Very close. It was "you can’t drink in here" (celebrations perhaps?).
16:20
most of the interesting projects on github are either too old (last authored several months ago) or I don't know that language well enough to contribute.
lol, too old.
@R.MartinhoFernandes you can contribute to the Chromium. it has such a great coding style
Ell
Ell
what happens if a constructor throws part way through?
is it the constructors responsibility to clean half of itsself up?
Possibly, yes.
Ell
Ell
16:31
when are the data members destructed? in reverse order after the destructor?
@Ell which destructor?
Dtor doesn't run if ctor threw up
If we’re still talking about throwing during construction, the destructor will not be called (if the exception escapes the constructor).
37
Q: Object destruction in C++

FredOverflowWhen exactly are objects destroyed in C++, and what does that mean? Do I have to destroy them manually, since there is no Garbage Collector? How do exceptions come into play? (Note: This is meant to be an entry to Stack Overflow's C++ FAQ. If you want to critique the idea of providing an FAQ in...

Ell
Ell
so the members wont be destructed by themselves
16:32
They will
> When control flow leaves the destructor body of an object, its member subobjects (also known as its "data members") are destructed in reverse order of their definition.
@Ell C++ may be a terrible language, but it got destruction right.
Putting aside data members and constructors, consider { A a; B b; throw E(); C c; }.
b will be destructed before a
Ell
Ell
right
but if member subobjects are destructed when the control flow leaves the destructor body
and the destructor body is never called
(because the constructor throws)
@rightføld The float talk will be published within the next 24-48 hours.
16:36
@Ell The sequence of operations on a different event is not relevant.
> If an exception is thrown during the construction of one of Foo's subobjects, then all its previously constructed subobjects will be destructed before the exception is propagated. The Foo destructor, on the other hand, will not be executed, since the Foo object was never fully constructed.
The class destructor is for destroying objects of that class—the rule is, if a constructor exits via an exception, no object was constructed. So the destructor for that class is not called. The members are still destroyed as needed though.
@Ell It's all in that FAQ :)
@Ell i.e. that those things happen in that order does not imply that one causes the other.
I, really, like, the, kerming, of, commas, in, this, font.
kerming? When Kermit does kerning?
16:39
@FredOverflow Interesting. So if you new in a constructor and an exception is thrown before it is finished then the delete you put in the destructor won't happen.
keണing
Ell
Ell
> If an exception is thrown during the construction of one of Foo's subobjects, then all its previously constructed subobjects will be destructed before the exception is propagated.
I see
I think I knew this already. This exceptions talk is making me question myself though
@caps exactly
Ell
Ell
Also I like Jon Kalb's RAII = Responsibility Acquisition is Initialization
3
@FredOverflow Ach.
16:41
@Ell What exceptions talk?
@Ell Mm, I like that too.
Yet co-worker says that automatic memory management is "lazy"
Ell
Ell
there are 3 parts, an hour each
@caps It is!
Ell
Ell
16:41
also audio is fixed at 4:15 on 1st part so don't be put off by it
I suppose you could put a try {} around your constructor and then catch(...){} at the end to delete the newed objects and rethrow the exception.
Still, feels nasty.
Rule of zero + don’t use new expressions.
Ell
Ell
I need to reread the rule of zero post
huh I like how the first indication that Philae isn't actually affixed to the comet is only revealed by an engineer when given the opportunity to make some humourous remarks on Philae's behalf, after half an hour of self-congratulatory spiel from endless bureaucrats. Then they quickly gloss over it because they already started talking about opening champagne. That engineer is probably thinking "ehm you guys are getting carried away; just hold on, would you?" Bloody management, eh?!
@LucDanton Sure. But in a good way.
@LucDanton You missed our little conversation last night I see.
16:54
@caps and that's bad how?
@Mgetz Because good programmers who aren't lazy "know how to use new and delete" as he is always saying he does.
@caps then he's a fucking idiot
pardon my english
@caps Except that good programmers are lazy AFAIK.
Wait, do good programmers really exist?
@Jefffrey Unicorns
I'll take that as a yes.

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