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20:00
@JerryCoffin so you are self-taught, but still at graduate level knowledge-wise.
user1804599
But if I create a function taking T and call it in Lua passing in something that is not T I get no error.
that should be a big difference wrt to the majority of teenage programmers without much CS background, at least for point #3 from @Mysticial list
@StackedCrooked what happened to Coliru? It's still not responding on my end :|
@sehe Read the starboard
"smarty pants"
20:03
yay... trivial example of opening an X11 window in rust is done. Just had to prevent the program quitting so fast you don't see it :P
@TemplateRex Based on the time I spent supervising a couple of guys who did have PhD's, I'm almost tempted to act insulted that you'd compare my level of knowledge to theirs. :-) As I sort of implied above, I do have a few odd holes in my background though. For example, my knowledge of calculus extends little beyond its existence and general subject area.
@Columbo dayum. it's working real well.
@sehe I'll try to fix it over the weekend.
Oops. Sounds serious.
@JerryCoffin apart from specialized topics such as physics parts in game engine or numerical solvers, you probably don't need calculus for programming
20:05
Not sure myself. I'll backup the user data and install from scratch.
algebra otoh and the ability to reason about abstractions is a different thing
I have a class with a Method(value) that returns a copy with .Value set to value. Waht is a good name for it? I'm thinking With(value) but don't love it.
@rightføld I like the way you remember stuff like that :/.
20:10
@JohanLarsson pls no java questions
user1804599
@sehe Why?
@StackedCrooked first time I read this I thought it was a joke
@rightføld engineer style, I recognize that
user1804599
ok
@TemplateRex Actually, I've written some game engine physics stuff without any real problem. It needed to calculate things like acceleration at discrete intervals, so it wasn't hard to do without calculus. I'm not entirely convinced that calculus would really have simplified it, though I have no way of being certain.
user1804599
20:13
WTFFFFFFFFFFFF
@JerryCoffin sure, but knowing things about calculus lets you write numerical stuff like Newton's method and its refinements a lot quicker
@TemplateRex needs citation
@sehe essentially convergence of solutions relies on things like Taylor's theorem
user1804599
help
Calculus is not that useful ime
20:14
@BartekBanachewicz Rust + gl :P
@thecoshman yeah well right
@sehe stability of root-finding algorithms are also grounded in calculus
I mean sure, if it's fun for you
go for it
user1804599
I may just be very dumb but, is there anything obvious wrong with this?
user1804599
auto styx_runtime_makeString = [] (std::string const& value) -> Box<icu::UnicodeString> {
    return { icu::UnicodeString::fromUTF8(icu::StringPiece(value.data(), value.size())) };
};
20:15
@BartekBanachewicz just playing around with Rust really
@TemplateRex you don't have to know that to know that newton's method converges. If you wanted to know how quickly, WP is patient (or you can figure it out)
@TemplateRex I know. You claimed "knowing things [...] a lot quicker". I'm not convinced as of yet
You can have the same speed up from knowing what you don't know, IME
@sehe writing it from scratch, obviously when using a library that advantage evaporates
So you know when to hit WP, Wolfram and a good numerics library
@sehe Jerry's examples was writing physics accelaration on discrete grid himself
@TemplateRex That's like saying that a working knowledge of Arabic is very helpful if you plan to work in Arab-speaking countries
20:18
without calculus, finding discrete approx of newton's equation is harder than if you can do Taylor expansion and drop higher order terms
@TemplateRex Wokay. I didn't take that to mean he didn't use libraries,
obviously, given a good library, almost anything can become trivial, and where's your edge wrt to script kiddies?
@sehe noo, just speak loudly and point at what you want :P
fucking netflix
hint: don't use it
20:21
I hate it when they recycle movies in their catalogue
@sehe I didn't use much in the way of libraries (in 1989 or so when I wrote that code, getting libraries was a lot more difficult than it is nowadays).
Yeah. I know that, to an extent
@TemplateRex Just use the search bar and find a good movie. Although I usually just watch whatever is "Popular on Facebook" because it always changes.
One day they're gonna get me...
I bought books with the algorithms. In Fortran. Orderable on separate CD-ROM floppy
20:26
3
Q: Overload built-in (intrinsic?) function

alexolutConsider following code: #include <iostream> #include <math.h> double log(double) { return 42; } int main() { std::cout << log(1) << std::endl; } While build debug version all used compilers (msvc,gcc,clang) prints 42. But when i try build (and run) in release mode i got: compilation ...

@JerryCoffin i was watching "The Right Stuff" the other day (from 1983), about the astronauts from the Mercury project. They didn't select Chuck Yeager (first guy to break sound barrier) for it because he didn't have a college degree
Weird stuff.
user1804599
@Rapptz if I use set_function with a function f that returns some value of my own class type that has no member functions, and I use set_function with another function g that takes a value of that same class, I should be able to do g(f()) in Lua, or not?
assuming you have those classes registered
yes
the other astronauts all thought he was the guy with the right stuff
user1804599
20:27
Oh.
user1804599
I have not registered them.
user1804599
That's probably why I got the segfault.
@sehe I remember how cool (I thought) it was when books started to include floppies (and later CD-ROMs) of the source code...
user1804599
Hmm, still segfaults.
@TemplateRex This is on netflix?
20:31
@rightføld Should work.
There are tests for it.
@TemplateRex Probably. My implementation of Newton's method for finding square roots probably did take a little longer than many, but I don't think lack of mathematical background was the reason for that.
user1804599
auto styx_std_io_write = [] (int, Box<std::vector<char>> const& bytes) {
    std::copy(bytes.value.begin(), bytes.value.end(), std::ostream_iterator<char>(std::cout));
};
styx_std_io.set_function("write", styx_std_io_write);
user1804599
When I call write in Lua and pass it the result of a function that returns Box<std::vector<char>> it doesn't pass the same box object.
@Nooble nope, but with Hola you might find a country in which it is
That's weird.
user1804599
20:33
Wait.
user1804599
WTF.
user1804599
Oh, same happens in another place.
user1804599
gist.github.com/rightfold/cd2fc3d2f6e8a2cc00d8 line 43 works fine, however functions at lines 53 and 65 receive bogus values.
user1804599
The int passed to styx_std_io_write is correct, though.
20:38
have you.. tried actually giving them names?
lua.new_userdata<T>(""); speaks "this is wrong" to me
OTOH, if you're going to find square roots, Newton's method is rarely optimal anyway (at least for integers). At least in my experience, the binary reducing method is normally quite a bit faster.
user1804599
Makes no difference.
@Rapptz Why should the userdata have to have a name?
@Puppy he has two of them without a name
striked me as odd
personally I don't see why a value should have to have a string associated with it
20:44
ok
user1804599
I could embed JVM instead of Lua.
user1804599
lol
Would you consider Objective-C a more modern language than C++?
C# seems the need-to-know language
cross platform, well supported
20:50
lol
blah blah blah
unless you're gonna implement a new language, libraries are more important.
user1804599
Yeaa screw Lua.
way more important.
unless you have a truly horrendous language like JavaScript or PHP
C# has Mono, Xamarin and Unity
DO you know either javascript or PHP?
far too much about both.
I like the idea behind Clojure. I think.
20:52
also, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Xamarin just the company behind Mono or Unity?
It is basically a reskin of mono
Tamarind is yummy.
Developing apps in C# for multiple devices.
@exitc0de You can edit your messages.
@exitc0de C'mon, the edit button
20:54
I know
But asterisks are easier.
:D
Your mom is easier
:P
inb4 flag
It doesn't matter if it's easier, it only matters if it's correct.
@exitc0de Up-arrow requires only one key-stroke. Asterisk requires two. This is why Golfscript is the easiest language to learn.
You can use up arrow :O
I only just realised that
20:56
@exitc0de Congrats--your life just got a tiny bit better! :-)
Rust seems like a really great language, but I hate that there isn't any IDEs and the syntax looks so weird coming from C languages
It looks more like a 'dynamically-typed' language with the basic syntax
I'm still on the star board.
@exitc0de I'm on the stern.
Get it!? Come on... I was being punny!
user1804599
@exitc0de wat
21:04
I probably shouldn't be in the C++ lounge as someone who is learning programming and has been for only a year :P
I like C++
Its a nice language
@exitc0de Even less than you, and I haven't received proper instruction. Yet no one here really hates me. I think.
On and off
@rightføld He was asking about my boat pun.
What does software engineering involve? Just programming software and back end tools?
Ukrainian president said that only Ukrainian language will be the official (state) language. So much for human rights.
21:08
yes, it's so demeaning to use the language of the country in which you live.
There can only be one official language.
how can any human be forced to go through this.
Countries that have 2 or more are not real countries.
...does Canada even really exist?
@Puppy Using a country's own language is outrageous. Don't even get me started.
@LucienGreathouse Don't be silly, it's just part of Alaska...
user1804599
21:15
rrghdfghdhkdfshkjfsdkjhfds
user1804599
Dynamic libraries storing in the fucking file where they should be is so fucking retarded.
@exitc0de Wh....whhh...what?
Slightly silly question
@exitc0de Yeah, it was. There's a tad more to the industry than programming and tools.
user1804599
Hurray it works.
21:18
@rightføld DELIVER NOW.
Thats what I'm asking
What do the people in this lounge do as software engineers
@rightføld congrats
@exitc0de Why what?
user1804599
> clang++ src/**/*.cpp -I /usr/local/include -I /usr/local/Cellar/boost/1.56.0/include -I /Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines/jdk1.8.0_25.jdk/Contents/Home/include -I /Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines/jdk1.8.0_25.jdk/Contents/Home/include/darwin -std=c++1y -Wall -Wextra -Werror -pedantic -L /usr/local/lib -L /Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines/jdk1.8.0_25.jdk/Contents/Home/jre/lib/server -ljvm -rpath /Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines/jdk1.8.0_25.jdk/Contents/Home/jre/lib/server -ferror-limit=1
user1804599
dat command
People say not to learn C++ as a first language
I disagree
Meh
21:21
We agree to disagree.
Also we had this conversation already.
Every other language seems weird now
Did we?
Yes.
@exitc0de Well, ignoring the business interface side, (customers, quotes, contracts), there's the small matters of requirements, design, coding, testing, debugging, verification, documentation, delivery, acceptance, maintenance, enhancement.
College Board says Java. Do everything on Java! Java is great! Take AP comsci tests in Java! Java master race! Java!
user1804599
:D :D :D
21:22
MIT teach C++
@Nooble Read Mein JVM
Cambridge teach Java
@Jefffrey Java!
Java is ugly. C# is nicer.
user1804599
Great JVM is much better than puny Lua VM.
21:23
@exitc0de we engineer s/w
Are you trying to lead this room to another language war, kid?
> trying
@Jefffrey Me? I was being sarcastic.
But everyone here hates Java anyway
21:23
No, triangle guy
exitcode is an easy, memorable name
triangle guy
so visually expressive
@Jefffrey Requesting permission to be called Koala-y?
user1804599
Though now I have to generate Java byte code instead of Lua code.
Everyone here seems to hate every language. Some people prefer certain languages, some hate them.
21:25
@exitc0de Who cares what they teach in Massachusetts.
I still don't understand why C++ isn't modern - could someone explain
I might go to MIT
Who says
Or Cambridge
congrats
Quite a large portion of the lounge are anti-C++, and I don't get why
But Cambridge teaches Java, and Java is ugly
21:25
Hahaha. They fooled ya
And you have to do Physics D:
@exitc0de They've used it.
@exitc0de ?
@MartinJames that
@sehe ?
21:26
Here we go again
lol
Subjectively ugly
> Oh god
Languages are to an extent subjective
Any advance on 'they've used it'
fasten your seatbelts
it's gonna be a long and dangerous ride
Not if you leave it
21:27
There are six emergency exits..
I just want to know, if I'm gonna learn C++ why some hate it
There's no correlation
Some hate it for its deficiencies. Of which there are many.
I'd say, most like many other languages.
I wouldn't say the main problem of C++ is deficiencies.
Like not at all.
C++ has an insane amount of "features".
21:29
I like features though
@Jefffrey Those are the strong points
Its messy but has features.
Oh, shut up already.
C++ has pointers, what more would you ever need!?
Is there anything that isn't messy and has features?
21:30
Someone might claim Haskell is not messy.
^ the important word in above sentence is "claim"
@Jefffrey Some claim Haskell is useful.
Im gonna force myself to learn Rust
I wouldn't consider Python particularly messy either.
21:31
I wish I didn't learn a C language first now.
@exitc0de you will soon come to the realization that you regret learning anything that has to do with software development.
In fact I wouldn't consider anything, except C++ and Wide, as messy.
@Jefffrey Disagree! The language is so-so, but then there Py2/Py3 which is a phenomenal mess, and the library ecosystem is just...
@Jefffrey you gotta be kidding me..
Wide lol
5
21:33
@Jefffrey Hahaha. Js, Php, Perl?
C++ stopped being messy ~2012 onwards, for me.
Why didn't I learn Rust first
Oh yeah, JS and PHP still exists
Forgot about those
every programming language that evolved after asm shall be considered messy
Perl I don't know it, so...
like asm isn't batshit insane
21:33
And if you just use the current C++ 'standard' and good practices, surely it isn't that messy
@Jefffrey So does slavery.
it is horrendously messy.
@Puppy batshit insane, yes; but it certainly isn't "messy" (if we are talking about structuring the language itself)
@FilipRoséen-refp That's because there's essentially nothing to structure.
Apr 15 '13 at 7:08, by sehe
Arguments in the lounge are normal arguments
21:34
it's messy by virtue of having nothing to mess up.
@exitc0de a lot can be said about the C++ Standard, but if it's anything it's messy.
@Puppy exactly my point.
that doesn't make it not messy, it makes it incomparable.
@FilipRoséen-refp If I print it out, will it weigh more than my laptop?
also if you think that the specification of how every single instruction interacts with every other in concurrent assemblers isn't messy, you're nuts.
Does messy matter as much in stuff like game programming
21:35
Can we stop using the word messy for a sec
@Puppy you failed to notice the sarcasm in reply to the things @Jefffrey wrote, right champ?
If the engine is 'well written'
@MartinJames certainly depends on what you print it on, and the font-size.. as well as your laptop.
@Jefffrey Quite. He's only averagely good, plus grossly overpaid.
Have you seen Jonathan Blow's language
21:36
He is not the only one either
@Jefffrey The Lounge is not the place for humor.. shyssh.
Being grossly overpaid.
@exitc0de Please tell me it's not called 'Blow'..
I don't think it has a name
@exitc0de I can't wait to know what you think about it
21:37
'The Language With No Name'?
@MartinJames You haven't seen the video?
I don't know enough to have an opinion
2
It became quite famous here few weeks ago.
@exitc0de Is it ashamed? Is it in witness-protection?
21:39
@MartinJames Here. Have fun.
I think I agree with him
But should he be trusted to make a language
@Jefffrey Oh, THAT one:(
Python isn't really viable for game development
Doesn't have pointers
right
21:41
Python isn't really viable for development
#wegottagofast
Lua is really odd
Ruby is nice
PHP too
I might learn Haxe
Wide too
21:42
@exitc0de I wish you placed those sentences in a single message so it would be starrable.
no pls
Ironically?
To laugh at it continuously.
we don't need more starred messages from this one
D:
C# and Rust
Its a lounge
Its informal
21:44
Every language is horrible. Only my language will be not horrible.
I'm allowed to be stupid and say stupid things
And we are allowed to star that.
yes
what people seems to miss is that you do that on purpose
What, I try to get ironic stars?
so every time you say some stupid shit, people star it
i don't know why you do it
21:45
Are all stars ironic?
Programmers are so dry humoured
I like it.
star baiting or maybe you misread what trolling means
i dunno
Neither.
Both are pointless
star baiting is fairly lucrative
My google search history must be so odd.
why didn't I go out
21:48
Everyone loves Lua + LÖVE
I like how lwjgl don't list Minecraft on the list of games made using it. Too shameful.
@ansh0l Sorry! I amended post. — exitc0de Oct 19 '13 at 9:29
lol
I had the honor to handle an extraordinarily sexy name lookup case today!
@Jefffrey ?
I faintly remember saying that
Stack Overflow is so newbie unfriendly - I corrected one of my questions so that there wasn't any problems, and no-one would un-down-vote it
D:
But now I can ask good questions, so we're good.
It's not really noob unfriendliness if it's about the answers though
0
A: C++ read a metadate file, and process the fields separated by a mix of whitespace and :

exitc0deTry here: http://www.learncpp.com/cpp-tutorial/136-basic-file-io/ I guess you could use basic file i/o and there is some example code that you could use. Make sure the file is .dat.

I think link only answers are considered bad
21:54
Exit code is gathering a new meaning here
Remind me of the dat on that answer.
Ell
Ell
Evening people
Nearly a year ago.
> Make sure the file is .dat.
what
I have no idea
21:55
:D
dunno
That was a long time ago
here's a chilling idea
And I was trying to get rid of a question ban
why don't you remove it?
21:56
When I didn't know enough to answer questions
nice
You just downvoted it D:
yes, sorry
You could have waited for me to delete it
you can redeem your points by removing it
21:57
Done
here, have your points back
user1804599
@Jefffrey Why sorry?
Rust seems perfect from game development, if it is better written and more tidy than C++
I need all the points I can get
@rightføld he seems such a nice guy
@Jefffrey you probably are the meanest one among us
21:58
that hurts
i must be a monster
nah :P
i have no heart, remember?
user1804599
Wunderbar.
How much rep do you lose?
For a downvote?

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