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17:00
@rightfold no, not 4K, because of the rep cap
@rightfold stackoverflow will hopefully only subtract those reps that actually were not capped
user1804599
@SuperCookie47 Rename it to Lube.
@rightfold hh
user1804599
@JohannesSchaub-litb it will.
I will consider
Nah, it's just cause for loops and 'shit'
lol
17:01
@rightfold i wonder how they do that
i guess they have internally two integers. one with total upvotes and one with non-capped ones
keep in mind, i am programming the compiler, that is, at least the parser, in vb.net because i do not know c++ properly yet
user784668
Fuck.
and i am a novice
could i use this to form my syntax?
and can anyone find errors?
user784668
I'm too lazy to get working on stuff.
well, anyone willing to take a look?
i would appreciate it muchly
user1804599
17:03
@JohannesSchaub-litb they just recalculate everything I guess.
user1804599
All votes have timestamps stored in them.
Ist Johannes ein Deutsch Name? xD
user1804599
ein Deutsch Name
was that a statement, rightfold?
@rightfold ah so they actually do time machining?
17:05
or..
he's just mocking your German
user1804599
@JohannesSchaub-litb you can always recalculate reputation manually when it goes wrong.
eine ?? xD
user1804599
Oh, they removed the butan. :L
17:06
Mein Deutsch ist nicht gut LOL
In fact, pretty non-existant
it's "existent"
user1804599
Your English is not very good either.
what language can you actually speak
user1804599
inb4 Java
Apparently so.. :(
user784668
17:07
@ScarletAmaranth !Xóõ
Maybe my English is questionable too..
Fuck.
There's even spell check :/ :/
try a new language then; you've failed at German and English so far
But why persecuteth thou me?
No need to be mean. It was a mistake :(
lol i'm not mean
user784668
17:09
See, @rightfold? Stop being mean and try being median.
what is your native language?
@SuperCookie47 Post it on pastebin or something.
1 message moved to bin
It was a semi-typo
LOL
user1804599
17:09
@ScarletAmaranth Java is not a native language, silly.
are you sure about that? ^^
@rightfold my bad; "what is your JITed language"
user1804599
Haskell is the only language for which you can guarantee it’s JITted.
user784668
WTF's going on with the stars.
user1804599
Expressions are evaluated just-in-time!
Haha, I'm proud to understand that. Haha. I don't know very much programmnig
LOL
17:10
welp
came back from eating my meal to lend you a hand but I guess you're just not interested
I was playing with the stars
Anyone speak Polish, LOL?
I understand Polish; can't speak it very well tho
you have a high rate of LOL in your sentences
user784668
@SuperCookie47 Zażółć gęślą jaźń
17:11
I know, LOL
@JohannesSchaub-litb he has low rate of words in his LOLs
I'll refrain, I'm sorry
@Fanael :O
user784668
@SuperCookie47 Joking aside, what kind of polish? Shoe polish?
Nazywam się John.
No the Polish Jensyk
I have no Baltic chars
17:13
Qt's got an ensurePolished function
I know a tiny amount of crap-Polish
Doesn't sie mean you?
Nevermind
I spoke too son
soon
f**
**
I am failing like motherf8*$&
Nie mogę mówić po polsku, więc korzystać z automatycznego tłumaczenia.
:/
Nie rozumiem..
user784668
@JohannesSchaub-litb The translator you're using is terrible.
@DeadMG nope I'm sorry, noone interesting today
17:14
lol
@Fanael what did it end up with
it does seem that the guy dumped his question then just "LOL" and walk away
To make it worse, I've forgotten about 70% of what I knew
so I'm feeling mighty disappointed.
Are you talking to me @DeadMG ?
I think the drugs are actually making you a nicer person; a terrifying side-effect
17:15
what drugs does he take?
name another person in the chat who dumped their question and then completely ignored everyone who tried to respond to it.
oh wait, you can't, because there's only one such in here and it's you.
I didn't notice anyone..
And again, someone's being mean for no reason
7 mins ago, by DeadMG
@SuperCookie47 Post it on pastebin or something.
user784668
@JohannesSchaub-litb Something along the lines of "I can't speak Polish at the moment, so to use an automatic translation".
lol I did not give that to google!
17:16
I can admit when I am wrong, and I clearly ignored that haha. Sorry.
Still willing to help?
lol, haha. aaahaha!!
sure
user784668
lol, LOL
I will from henceforth use no words to express emotions, and will instead come across entirely emotionless. Ha.
user784668
Thou shan't succeed.
17:19
I shall indeed!
I'm wondering, did "shan't" come from some archaic form of shall and not, just like won't (woll not)
please emit a sequence point first, so that we shall take you serious from henceforth
FACEPALM
It's just an ordinary contraction
so
are you gonna... post your question on pastebin, since it was fucking huge... or what?
17:22
it just got some french fries. the weather outside is so nice. it feels like a waste sitting inside.
user784668
@SuperCookie47 Good, you're making progress.
user784668
folks
@JohannesSchaub-litb hey
in case anyone is reading my syntax, "//" is a comment, meaning it is information, not part of the syntax file
17:24
whats up
@SuperCookie47 oh it finally makes sense now
@SuperCookie47 all I did read is 'in case anyone is reading my syntax, "'. Was there anything else?
Yes, yes. Not like you didn't know.
@SuperCookie47 This is a pretty silly grammar.
don't you have a C grammar to start from?
But might not have known my intention
@DeadMG?
17:26
@JohannesSchaub-litb you so compiler
@SuperCookie47 Here's a simple example- your grammar bans conditional returns.
you can declare multiple variables in one declaration- if by "multiple" you mean "two" rather than some arbitrary number.
your expression grammar is horrifically ambiguous.
Am not talking about my language in particular, just the method with which I will verify the grammar of a given code file, for the parser
hang on- you're going to generate a parser from the syntax file?
No
that parser will implement those rules
17:28
please don't take it too serious lol
right
E.g. int c=45;
so what exactly is the problem here?
it starts off with 'int'
that will refine it to one of the types
then it will check if that same line continues with a grammatically correct definition/declaration
?
Am I on the right lines?
yes
that's what a parser does.
17:30
@SuperCookie47 that sounds super cool. perhaps you can ask the LLVM crowd to consider adding it to clang?
I am still figuring out how to get the parser to understand, and verify for example:

if <expression> <op_equ> <expression> <obrkt> <statement> <cbrkt>
you can't because it's broken.
it willhave to somehow search the 'syntax' already defined somehow in the code, and I was thinking I could use a function such as "isValidIdentifier()" or such
imagine that I have
user784668
@JohannesSchaub-litb doesn't look too bad IMO
17:32
if a = b { f(); }
does this match if <expression> <op_equ> <expression> <obrkt> <statement> <cbrkt>?
I didn't say it's perfect, and it doesn't even allow for some things like a function in an if etc.
IDK
or does it match if <expression> <obrkt> <statement> <cbrkt>, where expression is identifier op_equ identifier?
protip: it matches both, so there's no unambiguous parse tree, so your grammar is broken.
All I am asking is, how would I verify each require element for example in a <variable_decl>, if I have to somehow go to another syntax structure which is jsut text
just*
what do you mean, verify it?
@DeadMG, let me check if it matches
Yes
how can i convert:
bear with me actually till i get myself together
17:34
I think he doesn't know how to do syntactic analysis on it : - \
@Fanael turns out that I allow a nullary function type to be specified as "", because i allow omitting -> rt and omitting "()" :D
For example:
<statement> := <variable_decl>
| <identifier> <op_equ> <expression> ;
| call <identifier> ( <expression>* ) ;
| <identifier> <op_cnv> <type> ;
| print <expression>
| <op_cnv> <expression> , <type> ;
| <conditional>
| <statement> ; <statement>
| meaning OR
yes
the last line: | <statement> ; <statement>
how would i make the function go back and verify whether another function is next to it, separated by a ;
which, like in C, is the separator for statements
17:37
well, first you check all the other cases
at least one of them must apply to be a legal statement.
and the call function (to call functions labelled 'active', i.e. they return a value) should not be: | call <identifier> ( <expression>* ) ;
that sounds complicated
then when you're done, you just check if the next token is a semicolon or not.
it should rather be something to allow for an infinite number of expressions, followed by a comma, but not the last parameter
how wouldido this for example?
what you need to do
is find a copy of the ANSI C grammar.
17:38
@SuperCookie47 it seems to me you have no clue what you're doing :)... write an LL(1) and top-down recursive descent parser first, then you can move on parsing more compex grammars is my best advice
they already solved all of these problems.
then strip out the parts you don't like.
lol, if for anyone, it should be complicated for me.
not you c guys
i only know limited vb.net..
and a little c
++*
whether or not you know C is irrelevant.
programming languages have nothing to do with how well you can write code
it's just a grammar like any other.
pick the parts that aren't similar to what you want and cut them
17:39
yes, but using it to create the parser is my issue
user784668
@ScarletAmaranth You sure about that? PHP?
right
you can use an automated parser generator
@Fanael that would assume PHP is a programming language
such as the problem above: listing parameters, separated bya comma, except no comma at the end. or simply no parameters
LALR(1) is the most common for many reasons.
17:40
and from what i hear (someone who has wrote many programmnig languages in his career advises against using such platforms
LL(1) is much simpler; he shouldn't do anything else before he moves on (I don't mean to be an ass here)
no o' that shit
i want experience
LL(1) can hardly parse any fucking thing.
but you can simply implement it
it's too weak for real usage.
there's no point in gaining experience or implementing it.
17:41
i don' wish to implement anything other than my own design
user784668
I only use WTF(69) parsers.
most handwritten parsers follow recursive descent.
@DeadMG you're right, have him start with CFG parsing stuff
i.e., for each "rule" you write a function that recognizes that rule.
even if it defies parser conventions ahha
@DeadMG, that's what I had in mind
For example:
17:42
why care about LL or LALR at all?
(in VB.NET)

Function isValidIdentifier() As Boolean
oh
no.
just write down the recursive descent thing and don't care about what formal class of grammars it belongs to
you should already know if it's an identifier or not before it gets anywhere near your grammar.
that is a totally separate thing called lexing.
17:43
you need to first LEX it
then PARSE it
user784668
@DeadMG Lexerless parsing?
alright; I'm done
1 message moved to bin
it doesn't have the indentation :(
user784668
@DeadMG Thank you.
17:43
whoah dude, giant wall of text, again.
I wouldn't say giant...
giantes => 20 to
really doesn't matter what your AST looks like.
it's not like we'll run out of space..
@DeadMG just aside note :D
a side*
@Fanael Eh. You won't need anything like that unless you go to something like Haskell's user-defined operators, afaik.
My keyboard's spacebar only works when it wants to :/
17:45
separating lexing and parsing is just simpler and easier really
lexing being?
@DeadMG also lets you keep most of your hair
@DeadMG Depends a lot
I am not familiar with all of the terminology
it seems to me
17:45
you don't seem to be familiar with anything;
that you're not really familiar with any of this.
I know lexer, semanitc analyser, parser, but fail to differentiate them..
I didn't claim to be an expert or even know any of it!
well
17:46
I asked if this is the right direction
maybe you should know some of it, hm?
user defined operators can't be done with a lexer?
39 secs ago, by ScarletAmaranth
you don't seem to be familiar with anything;
go pick up a book or something.
user784668
@sehe Boost.Spirit doesn't count, still compiling.
user784668
17:46
@JohannesSchaub-litb Sure they can.
DeadMG seem to have implied it cant
@SuperCookie47 lexing is context insensitively parsing into a sequence of tokens (that is: greedily sequentially). Parsing is trying to recognize different grammatical structures out of this token-representation of the input
@Fanael That's getting pretty boring
lexing phase spits out tokens that should be recognizable in the language -> then you parse them to see if they make sense in the context of the language (defined by a grammar) -> then you can do semantic analysis / typechecking and what have you
@SuperCookie47 We don't want anti-semitic analyzers here!
so lexing would be something like
int a=12;

into:
[TYPE:=int] [ID:=a] [EXP:=12] ?
17:48
@SuperCookie47 yes. well, EXP is too hight level by far
user784668
@sehe I know that waiting for Boost.Spirit heavy code to compile is getting pretty boring.
well, int is a keyword, not a type.
and 12 is an integer, not an expression.
then what is a type?
17:48
o_O
@SuperCookie47 It's a grammar rule.
the parser says "A type is one of these keywords".
the lexer says "This word is this keyword".
you see this is what i hate about only learning vb.net high-level piece of shit, too abstract
@Fanael well, I don't think it hinders me a bit. Come back when you've found the reason for that
C++ is your friend
has nothing to do with it.
17:49
:)
you would not learn lexing and parsing if you wrote the same programs in C++.
@SuperCookie47 A type is also just an identifier
@sehe User-defined types.
But I might understand the difference between a type and a keywords
and that's ignoring stuff like qualified name, etc.
17:50
I though the default types would be keywords anyway..
@SuperCookie47 Those differences exist in VB.NET just as much as they do in C or C++.
@DeadMG semantics! (dat pun). In my language, builtin types are just identifiers that happen to exist at the start of parsing
I am just saying VB.NET does abstract it all quite a bit
I have a similar thing right now in Wide.
17:50
C++ is slightly more direct
user784668
In my language, there are no keywords.
but I'm going to change it because nobody really wants a data member named int64.
Lower-level
or a variable named true.
Again, why should I call it 'keyword' and not 'type'
user784668
17:51
@DeadMG var true = false;
@SuperCookie47 A type is a semantic entity.
woudln't my built-in types automatically be keywords?
it exists in the semantic analysis phase.
@SuperCookie47 It's a decision, not a natural phenomenon. Like "var" and "const" are keywords, but "eyeSore" and "@for" can be identifiers (for anything, like a function, a variable or a type) in C#
it does not exist in any of the previous phases.
user1804599
17:51
var is not a keyword in C#.
As you will see in my syntax, my keywords or only found in what qualifies each element for example: call <identifier> ( <expression>* ) ;
here, "call" is a keyword
user784668
@rightfold var var = 5; is legal?
user1804599
Yes.
hey y'all, I have a very dumb question, but what exactly is "deployment" considered? I am trying to develop a website locally, then push the changes into a server. Is this 'deployment'?
IMO a language with non-keyword builtin types + with nested scopes can become very confusing
17:52
the keywords are pretty much the only literal things in my syntax
a keyword simply tells the parser to tell the analyzer through the AST which type you wanted.
user784668
Note: I don't know C#. Like, at all.
user1804599
And if class var { } is in scope, it will pick that instead of doing type inference.
@SuperCookie47 likely not. I mean, again, it's a decision, but it would be quite interesting if some keywords were actually (or also?) types. I guess Perl would have the counter examples but ....
if you start having to ask what "int" means ("is it user defined here, or is it still the builtin int?", it's very bad)
user784668
17:53
Oh, VS. Freezing again.
@sehe this ambiguity will not occur
Visual Studio freezing?
@SuperCookie47 valid, but you're just hopping back to the "parser" level of abstraction. You were trying to figure out the tokens of call <identifier> ( <expression>* ) ; before.
user784668
@SuperCookie47 Yes.
What? Never xD
But you gotta love it
user784668
@rightfold wha— really?
17:54
@sehe>
IME VS never freezes.
Rarely crashes.

Except when you need it for a critical fix
user1804599
No, I’m telling lies.
@Crow Are the changes visible to users of the web server? If the answer is yes, then it is a deployment. IMHO.
user784668
@rightfold Good to know.
user1804599
17:55
I’m also totally not sarcastic.
user1804599
But “really?” questions are just stupid.
To make it all worse, I am thinking of making the code generator peraps generate asm or c++...
LOL
aaahaha you did say LOL
user784668
@rightfold I never would've thought!
17:56
@VáclavZeman well, what I am doing NOW is editting local files, committing them, then scping it to my web server and patching up all the problems. Seems inefficient. I am looking at this "fabfile" thing and wondering if it's what I'm supposed to be doing
And perhaps make it possible that it could be compiled for embedded systems, like maybe the ATMEL architecture, Arduino?
yup; of course you are
But that's it way ahead
For now, I am content with compiling it to intermediate .NET
and then maybe converting my project to c++
this first vb.net project is just to make it happen
@SuperCookie47 std::cout << "asm" pretty easy :}
I could even make it into a scripting language first
17:59
@SuperCookie47 "intermediate .NET" - what is that, even
user1804599
@sehe Not too difficult, but not to easy either.
with the basic keywords, loops etc. it has for the moment
@SuperCookie47 You could make it dispense cookies in the shape of Putin's head

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