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19:00
@R.MartinhoFernandes Perhaps nobody was in the room when he checked? Anyway he asked politely here so I think we can just ignore the question or tell him "ask in the java room anyway"
indeed
by the way, did you check out those blogs about exception handling?
user3010322
Exception handling is complicated.
yeah we know.
@DeadMG ah no. Can you give me the link again?
There are four people there.
One of them "last seen 2s ago"
19:01
DESERTED I TELL YA
user3010322
MMMM
there's like, 20+ entries.
user3010322
Delicious aliasing.
OK, time to go home. Cheers
19:02
@DeadMG thanks. Will take a look :)
oh by the way, I wanted to ask you something about SMAC
don't do it
it's bad for you
is it just me, or on the higher difficulties, are all the enemy factions aggressive beyond reason?
user3010322
uint16s[ 0 ] = static_cast<TChar16>( c );
uint16s[ 0 ] = static_cast<TChar16>( endian( id<uint16>( ), u16cb ) );
user3010322
It's not the prettiest syntax.
19:03
it seems to me like if you don't use a compatible social model and give them a bunch of money and technologies, they will attack you, even if they're being wiped out by someone else right now
user3010322
But it'll do.
Best defense is offense!
@DeadMG I think so, yeah. I can't say I know a lot about the AI implementation or all the pro strats or anything, but yeah. I guess it's the easiest way to make the game harder
well
All Civilization games are like that.
19:05
I never knew anything about that stuff :P
but they're terrible judges of your circumstances as well as their own
@LightnessRacesinOrbit that's funny my dad once made that mistake during a presentation...
I was heading for Transcendent Victory, then all the other factions attacked me because I wouldn't give them my top technologies
and I wiped them all out at once with little effort
The moral of the story is: they should have attacked you earlier.
seems like after population size about 9, the AI simply can't handle their economies and industries anymore
or advance their tech beyond mid-tier.
so if you have a substantial industrial or technological base you'll always win
Dammit. I feel like I have a ref-to-temp issue.
19:10
maybe
I should simply acquire Civilization 5 or something and try that.
it'll probably have a better interface, although IDK how much it's really like SMAC
If you grab 4, I'll play ye.
user3010322
If I have
> $16 = (const void *) 0x40a538 <std::string::c_str() const>
I'm reading data from c_str's implementation? o_O
@DeadMG not much
That's quite the fucking coincidence.
19:15
and ooh, I'd be up for a civ4 game
user3010322
template <typename T = void> struct meow {}
user3010322
Can I write meow purr{} ?
@ThePhD No.
user3010322
I have to give it the little angle-y brackets, right?
user3010322
19:15
There's no way around that?
yes.
With Brave New World, I assume?
Civ 4 UI is a clusterfuck
user3010322
Hm.
@jalf That's civ5.
19:15
Er
what was the latest expansion for civ4 then?
@CatPlusPlus Better or worse than SMAC?
Beyond the Sword.
Ah right
Never played SMAC
That then :D
@CatPlusPlus It's awesome, but way worse UI than civ4
19:16
@CatPlusPlus You suck. Get SMAC.
Yeah, I have BTS.
user3010322
template <typename T>
struct id {
	typedef T type;
};

using in_place_t = id<void>;
const auto in_place = in_place_t( );
user3010322
vOv good enough I guess?
user3010322
Oh, woops
hmm
19:17
I tried it the other day and I realized that I suck at it.
I used to be able to beat the AI at Emperor level, but now I get trounced in Prince.
user3010322
Bit rot: a real life example.
hmm
I have a burning desire for chocolate and also a burning desire to not get even sicker than I already am.
Just stick to burning.
Wait, not Prince. I get trounced in Noble, which is what passes for average difficulty.
@DeadMG Meh
Evening fellas
19:26
hola
11 mins ago, by DeadMG
I have a burning desire for chocolate and also a burning desire to not get even sicker than I already am.
I bought tons of cakes
and chocolate
and yoghurt
i am not going to fuck now
19:35
> Amusingly, the history of the evolution of C++ over time can be described as a history of trying to plug the leaks in the string abstraction. Why they couldn't just add a native string class to the language itself eludes me at the moment.
@Jefffrey I like how he seems to mix up C and C++ in there.
@EtiennedeMartel does he?
Oh, wait, I misread.
I thought C++11 or C++14 introduced string literals so that you could do "x"_s and get an std::string
19:41
Evening all
This has me totally flummoxed anyone good with constexpr oddities? stackoverflow.com/questions/22543258/…
@JohannesSchaub-litb why is the std::size_t second argument required?
user3010322
@Jefffrey To tell you how big the string is.
user3010322
Or would you like to measure it by hand?
@Jefffrey because a string literal can contain \0
@JohannesSchaub-litb oh, right, thanks
:D
19:47
OMFG
THIS FONT
GOD
user1804599
lol Ideone sucks at C# ideone.com/mxPvgM
@JohannesSchaub-litb so, this would be the correct implementation for a string literal:
std::string operator"" _s(const char* str, std::size_t s) {
    return std::string(str, str + s);
}
?
@rightfold It's Mono 2.
The string.Join overload that takes an IEnumerable<string> was added in .NET 4.
The previous versions only have the string[] overloads.
@Jefffrey i don't know at all
@BartekBanachewicz which one?
19:51
So, they don't "suck", it's just an old version.
user1804599
@EtiennedeMartel that sucks.
@rightfold Well, don't use a provider that's obviously not hosted on Windows, then.
Sam
Sam
why someone should learn c++ today?
user1804599
i got 99 problems and js aint NaN
user1804599
@Sam because C++ is an interesting language.
Sam
Sam
20:00
@rightfold i know but is really complex and rude
@EtiennedeMartel Did you see the CryEngine as a service announcement?
user1804599
That’s why you should start today.
@Borgleader Yes.
user1804599
Otherwise you won’t grasp it before your death.
@EtiennedeMartel Thoughts?
20:01
@Sam The language is rude?
It's like everyone's doing the "Engine as a Service" thing now. Unity, Unreal, CryEngine...
Sam
Sam
@rightfold man, really, why should i learn c++ when there are high oop alternatives?
hmm
Sam
Sam
@rightfold just for fun?
if you think the others are more OOP than C++, you don't really know OOP at all.
user1804599
20:01
C++ is one of the highest-level languages.
user1804599
It’s a common misconception that it’s only low-level.
@EtiennedeMartel What really surprised me was that CryEngine was plain cheaper in every way than UnrealEngine, especially with no royalties. How is Crytek gonna make money on CryEngine at such a low price?
user1804599
@Sam Well, there is much software written in C++ and it has to be maintained.
user1804599
C++ is also used in various fields.
20:02
@Sam why do you need "high oop" languages? And how many of them do you need?
@Jefffrey return std::string(str, s);
@jalf Languages on drugs.
@R.MartinhoFernandes it's the same, no?
@DeadMG That's not how it works.
I didn't read the whole memo on CryEngine, can you stop subbing and keep using it like UE4 does?
user1804599
20:05
@Sam to learn new paradigms and get inspired.
user1804599
If you only keep floundering in one language or paradigm you won’t get much better.
user1804599
Speaking of which, I should really try Newspeak ASAP.
> Heads up! Players who pick up a copy of Diablo III: Reaper of Souls™ will soon discover bonus loot in the form of an Expert Card Pack (or Packs!) for Hearthstone™: Heroes of Warcraft™.
So many ™ signs.
@Sam C++ has a nicely designed standard library and if you don't consider the C inheritance it's overall a splendid language.
user1804599
Besides I/O streams. :)
20:09
nah, it's still horrible
Splendid! I like that word
user1804599
newspeaklanguage.org y u no work.
yeah, besides <iostream> I guess
It should be used more often
@EtiennedeMartel Heh and if you play Hearthstone, you get a mount for WoW
20:10
Jolly good
@rightfold Ignorance is strength.
Sam
Sam
@Jefffrey prehistoric library.... but let's move on, what are the MUST HAVE dlls/libraries for c++?
@Sam prehistoric? why?
@Sam well, you definitely want boost, a part from that it depends on what you are going to code with it
NSDMI are awesome.
user1804599
@Jefffrey last update was in 2011 :F
Sam
Sam
20:12
@Jefffrey there's something like linq for c++?
@rightfold actually it's 2014 :P
user1804599
@Jefffrey I thought only the draft was released, not the final standard.
@rightfold yeah, but clang already implement most of its features IIRC
user1804599
So? It’s still not the standard library.
20:13
C++ is not C# therefore it sucks
7
also the final draft was released
Sam
Sam
@R.MartinhoFernandes indeed
user1804599
@Sam There are LINQ-like libraries, but I have never tried them.
user1804599
auto scores = LINQ(from(student, students)
                   from(score, student.scores)
                   where(score > 90)
                   select(std::make_pair(student.last_name, score)));
user1804599
20:17
Boost also has a range library but I have no idea if it’s any good as I have never used it.
user1804599
Oh, the LINQ library also supports syntax using | instead of macros.
terrible macro names
They're scoped
scoped macros?
terrible
20:23
The LINQ one around the whole thing defines them.
around defines?
I am unfamiliar with this.
@Jefffrey new LoL font
the LINQ is a macro tha defines the other macros
and undefines them when done
so "scoped"
I thought that recursively expanding macros like that was illegal?
20:25
There are macros named LINQ_from, etc, and the LINQ one uses token pasting for magic.
user1804599
@TheFiddler you cannot do that.
hmm, indeed you cannot, you can only call other macros
so yeah, just syntactic sugar
(for a wide definition of "sugar")
#define SCOPE_add 42
#define SCOPE(x) SCOPE_##x

SCOPE(add)
This sort of thing.
@einpoklum please take a look at the Smalltalk language, which Alan Kay designed to be an OOP language when he invented the term OOP. It didn't have interfaces. OOP is not about interfaces or abstract base classes. Are you going to say that "Java, which is nothing like what the inventor of the term OOP had in mind is more OOP than C++ which also is nothing like what the inventor of the term OOP had in mind"? What you mean to say is "C++ is not Java-like enough for my taste". That is fair, but it has nothing to do with OOP. — jalf 24 hours ago
I think I wanna marry @jalf
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix Jon Skeet was in the Lounge? OMG did anyone take pictures?!
Smalltalk didn't have interfaces?
20:36
@DeadMG not afaik. It didn't have classes either
What would be the point of interfaces in a language without static typing?
@FredOverflow it would be very OOP!
oh I didn't realize it was dynamically typed.
user1804599
@FredOverflow instanceof?/implements? functions.
I'd rather call that "interfaces generated on the fly" rather than not actually having interfaces.
user1804599
20:37
@FredOverflow Add method to interface => have to update all implementing classes otherwise error.
user1804599
PHP does the latter and it’s rather nice.
user1804599
Also type hints on parameters. Though that is kinda like but not quite like static typing.
That's the funny thing about Alan Kay's big quote about "I invented the term OOP, and I can tell you I did not have C++ in mind" or whatever it was
It applies just as well to Java or C# or the other languages that people who pull out that quote typically prefer instead of C++
the quote is just an appeal to authority anyway
it's hardly uncommon that the first person to conceive of an idea isn't the one with the best final concept
> Oracle Binary Code License Agreement for Java SE and JavaFX Technologies: [...] You agree that neither the Software nor any direct product thereof will be exported, directly, or indirectly, in violation of these laws, or will be used for any purpose prohibited by these laws including, without limitation, nuclear, chemical, or biological weapons proliferation.
Wait, is this a political argument? I always thought Java would be considered technically unfit for nuclear reactors, not being real time and all.
20:44
@FredOverflow Isn't it part of the treaties banning WMDs? "No chemical, nuclear, biological or Java-based weapons"
There will be no first use of Java in this war!
@FredOverflow How did you find this?
@Borgleader I just typed "Java nuclear" into Yahoo. It was the third hit.
Into what
Houyhnhnm
20:48
Yahoo. Some search engine from the 90s that, for some reason, is the default search engine in Linux Mint Debian.
user1804599
Is javac open source?
user3010322
Hm.
user3010322
For some reason I'm excessively hungry.
user1804599
Probably because you don’t eat.
Not eating is a common cause of that.
20:49
@rightfold I believe it has been for quite some time now.
user3010322
I had breakfast. vOv
user3010322
... Oh, wait, it's 5 PM.
user3010322
I had breakfast like 8 hours ago. <_>
user1804599
@FredOverflow hg.openjdk.java.net :((
user3010322
20:50
... Meh. I don't need food.
fuck.
I started a new game of SMAC, my first city grew to size 2, and drone riots.
user1804599
dat filename
@DeadMG stop it! You're making me want to play it now
21:00
yeah, but I did get immediately ganked by Hive.
who are you playing as?
they scouted me, we traded some technology, they offered treaty of friendship which I accepted, then they immediately attacked me for not being a strict police society.
@jalf University.
someone here using vagrant?
Only if you can be bothered to use full sentences.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit wut?
21:08
And full words.
Dude, what's up with you?
Hello.
@jalf I switched it up to Transcend, and it suddenly seems like the AI receives way more resources than me. They can research faster than me and build units/projects/etc a lot faster, and it's only been a few turns into the game. I wonder if they simply cheat?
21:19
@BartekBanachewicz indeed
21:31
@DeadMG Yes.
All Civ games follow the same rough model. I don't recall the exact difficulty levels of SMAC, but usually there's a "Normal" with little to no cheating involved; every level below cheats for the player; every level above cheats for the AI.
Significantly boosted starting setup is also popular in the hardest levels.
user1804599
/Users/__init__/libcxx/include/type_traits:922:38: error: implicit instantiation of undefined template
      'std::__1::hash<std::__1::basic_string<char, std::__1::char_traits<char>, std::__1::allocator<char> > >'
user1804599
lolwat
@bamboon @Cat does
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah, that's where I saw it from but he's not here currently ^^
> To easily recognize this browser among the list of devices Steam Guard has enabled, give the browser a friendly name - at least 6 characters long.
FFS why does this have a minimum length requirement.
I have boxes named "orome", "manwe", and "varda". Any of those identifiers is good enough an identifier for me.
21:38
R.orome, R.manwe, R.varda
problem solved
Now, if I see "oromeX" I will wonder "Is that what I typed in, or is someone spoofing this?"
@R.MartinhoFernandes append _ ?
Besides the point. If I have to deform my identifiers, they stop performing their function properly.
I already have an identifier for this box. Steam has no business dictating it.
Now I have to remember that this box goes by "orome" in places, and "orome_" in others.
21:44
orome_appendedBecauseOfSteam
@R.MartinhoFernandes First world problems
@BartekBanachewicz But that's exactly what I would do if I was spoofing it.
user3010322
The whole point is
user3010322
Name restrictions and validations are assholes.
user3010322
21:46
I should be able to name my shit whatever I want.
user3010322
If I have a 1-character long name, I have a 1-character long name!
user3010322
First person to have the name EmptyString wins a million dollars.
It makes some sense to not allow such as screen names, but this is a private identifier.
@BartekBanachewicz Together with an engl e530 or what? You are a software engineer, get an Axe FX!
@bamboon ha ha implying I can afford one. Also, Axe goes great with that.
But I already have a good modeller, I want some loud solution now
FRFR active speaker is the budget option
but I am exploring a bit more costly stuff too
21:49
@BartekBanachewicz Make all the noise!
but it sucks, there's nothing in the middle price range
yeah
Personally, I would save a bit and buy an Axe later.
but axe won't sound by itself!
Sure, directly into the PA
assuming I play on stages where PA is good enough :P
21:50
^^
they are mostly aiming at vocalists.
also guitar cabs are kinda cool (and inexpensive!)
yeah and heavy
well depends, if you get hardwood mesa one then yeah
Stateful macros. I think @Xeo first came up with this?
but reasonable, undersized ones preferrably aren't that heavy
21:52
yeah
@BartekBanachewicz 'EL84'? Sounds like firebottles to me:(
well this one is 37kg tho :D
user1804599
Yay.
user1804599
My module deserialiser works.
@MartinJames those are power tubes.
21:53
@BartekBanachewicz That's what I said:)
lol okay
I'm a bit tired
@BartekBanachewicz Bugera was not that good last time I checked
@bamboon come on, they are great in their price range
again, I'd just buy a full Mesa stack if I could afford it
but this cab is around 300€. Mesa one would cost at least 1500€
@BartekBanachewicz right right, but Mesa is also totally overpriced
@BartekBanachewicz Looks sturdy. If it can stand two overweight, drunken roadies sitting on it and survive a direct hit from a pint of lager on the grille, it would be great.
21:55
@MartinJames it should alright.
but still I have no amp for that
I was thinking about disassembling and modifying my old solid state amp
if I could rip the preamp out of it, it might even sound reasonable, it's an open back 1x12", homemade stuff I bought randomly
and when I say homemade I mean it, the whole circutry is handwired and stuff
which also means it's probably a unique beast and I can't just get schematics for it online.
Our #AZDO talk with @grahamsellers, @TangentVector, @basisspace done. Slides at http://www.slideshare.net/CassEveritt/approaching-zero-driver-overhead
@BartekBanachewicz ^
@Borgleader woo
> Cass Everitt @casseveritt
GL zealot, ...
haha
oh an intel guy
@BartekBanachewicz Well, I then guess that it works or it's scrap. Good luck:)
21:59
I think I talked to him once.
@MartinJames I should take some photos and post them online
hopefully people that know their wires better could help me
2 Nvidia, 1 AMD and 1 Intel
@BartekBanachewicz Maybe. Perhaps someone will recognise it,or its board/layout, and come up with the schematic.
nice. my answer to the books question will now earn much more votes xD
@BartekBanachewicz Does it have that knob that goes up to 11? If so, that's often between preamp and power, so maybe a good place to inject stuff.
Xeo
Xeo
@StackedCrooked I did? Cool.
22:05
I vaguely remember some kind of counting technique.
or maybe I invented something new :P
Anyway, I'm going for shower/beer. My UI and file spec changes for Lord Haw-Haw are done and I'll leave on load-test overnight. I'M FREE!
This is pretty relevant to code right?
user1804599
Yes; Windows is broken.
I took the photos
umh oh well
apparently it has line input
that i have forgotten about
i suck
22:27
So i skimmed through the no overhead presentation, looks like theres a lot of performance benefits to be had but in some places there are serious limitations
like.. all textures must be the same size =/
so
if the volume controls don't work
that's actually good for me because it means I'm bypassing the preamp completely
lol i was so dumb
user1804599
I finally get where all the pipes in SMB come from.
user1804599
Mario is a plumber. :v
one of the designers had autism disorder which compelled him to draw pipes
22:43
@MartinJames I need some info on 321D024 relay and can't google that :(
user1804599
Fuck you, Blooper.
user1804599
Fuck you, Hammer Bro.
meowing
How is this gonna work inter-process? — sehe 12 secs ago
Lol. Singletons strike again
I've just modified my second example to be somewhat robust in the face of process interruption/termination and demonstrate how to limit to 3 instances at a time. — sehe 7 secs ago
22:58
Singloltons
@JohanLarsson yes

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