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4:00 PM
It's funny that we study together, you know banan?
 
user1804599
@PandaWoll .NET is bad.
 
Not hip enough.
 
user1804599
3 hours ago, by rightfold
http://logarithmic-flappy-2048.ajf.me/
 
now that empty space is bothering me again
 
@PandaWoll I've no idea who you are vOv.
 
4:01 PM
Informatyka, ETI, PG ?
 
those are terms I scream when I wake from nightmares alright
@PandaWoll now considering there are approx 200 people on this course / year, that gives me only around 800 people to choose from.
 
@CatPlusPlus Adding events to a template isn't actually that difficult.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Think about it: who looks like a panda?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes is B&W or is round-shaped or is a bear?
@Rapptz compile-time events
 
user1804599
My best score is 4294967296.
 
4:04 PM
you're a huge nerd.
 
Everyone here is a huge nerd
 
user1804599
@mpataki14 nice hat.
 
Ok, nevermind... Why some of you guys think that .NET is bad?
 
user1804599
Damn, I want tenderloin from the butcher’s.
 
@PandaWoll because mono isn't all-that-shiny
 
user1804599
4:06 PM
@PandaWoll it’s too messy for my taste.
 
6 mins ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
Not hip enough.
 
user1804599
IList.IsReadOnly wat.
 
this looks pretty cool
 
user1804599
What.
 
user1804599
Why is that page redesigned.
 
user1804599
4:08 PM
The old design was perfect.
 
it's missing vote info
 
but it looks okay to me
 
user1804599
“Show full bio” ugh what is it with all these redesigns that require more clicks for everything (I’m looking at you too, Google).
 
4:09 PM
dunno why that didn't onebox
 
@rightfold They pay designers full time so they need to feel useful
 
the design isn't even that bad
 
user1804599
@CatPlusPlus s/feel useful/get fired/
 
it's just missing a lot of neat info
like recent rep and vote info
unless they hid it under more clicks, then that's dumb
 
I personally think C++ is too messy. @Bartek so you worry about cross-platform things but consider if there is only one platform - Microsoft Windows. Isn't .NET shiny on Windows?
 
4:11 PM
A metal ass is p shiny
 
@PandaWoll С++ is crossplatform. .Net isn't
 
Bullshit
 
@Rapptz I suppose that's going in on the "Dashboard" thing.
 
@PandaWoll Go here to discuss whatever you're talking about.
i.e. not here
 
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix They both each run only on implementations of the respective target machines.
 
4:13 PM
To me C++ isnt crossplatform but ok, thats what you think.
 
@CatPlusPlus metal can be dull
 
Where was I last year
 
@thecoshman Well maybe your butt is dull
 
@CatPlusPlus either way, bite it.
 
4:14 PM
Or maybe you're a dragon and don't have a butt
Which is even duller
 
@PandaWoll how is it not?
 
You better rewrite it
 
@PandaWoll Why am I supposed to consider completely unreal things for the sake of your made-up point?
 
22 hours ago, by ThePhD
C++ is high-level. It compiles to Javascript.
Related.
 
4:16 PM
.NET is not even a language
It's not even a thing you want to refer to
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes your point?
 
@PandaWoll Guess you never heard of Mono?
 
Mono blows
 
"Cross-platform" is a lot of things, and portable bytecode is not really the most important one, though it helps a lot
 
I heard and read and everything man
 
4:17 PM
I don't know why people think it doesn't but it surely does.
 
It works fine for most cases
 
Mono is quite good honestly..
 
ergh ¬_¬ tools suck. Every tiny change I want to do results in a delay whilst it thinks about what to do next.
 
@Rapptz I don't know why you think it does.
 
Cause every time I've used it it's sucked.
 
4:18 PM
@Rapptz and the alternatives are?
 
Well with argument that compelling
2
 
@thecoshman none? (which would make that even worse, arguably)
 
I'm at work and I'm too lazy to argue for paragraphs
 
user3010322
Mono's editor was beyond awful to me when I used it for PSVita development. =/
 
Define "sucked"
 
4:19 PM
People around me will think I'm keyboard warrior-ing
 
@CatPlusPlus applied negative pressure
 
@ThePhD Joke's on you, Mono doesn't have an editor
 
@ThePhD What about .NET's editor?
 
If you only target Windows you don't need Mono or any crossplatform technology and windows is more like 87% of usage here in Poland.
 
user3010322
I don't like MonoDevelop. It's just bad. :c
 
4:19 PM
@ThePhD You mean MonoDevelop?
 
user3010322
@CatPlusPlus You know what I meant! /cc @R.MartinhoFernandes
 
MonoDevelop is a piece of shit but I don't think it's related to Mono.
 
MonoDevelop isn't related to Mono mostly
 
user3010322
Goddamnit. ;~;
 
@PandaWoll I'd say 87% of your statistics are pulled out of ass.
 
Oh god not OS rankings
 
> Ranking jest tworzony na podstawie liczby odsłon stron uwzględnionych w badaniu gemiusTraffic.
 
user3010322
As far as Mono itself, I can't, uh. Say it's bad?
 
@PandaWoll or you could write code that is easy to port and get like 99% vOv
 
user3010322
4:21 PM
It just mimics .NET's interface, which isn't all that bad, and brings C# to other platforms.
 
It doesn't "mimic .NET interface"
 
@thecoshman Not only in Poland!
 
It implements the same spec .NET does
 
7 mins ago, by Panda Woll
To me C++ isnt crossplatform but ok, thats what you think.
@R.MartinhoFernandes lol Poland-compatible code
2
 
Which is even a standard
ECMA standard but still
 
4:21 PM
ECMASS
 
it hasn't been a standard since C# 3.0 no?
 
@BartekBanachewicz oh noes, I'm going to have compile my code!
 
CLI is a standard
 
@thecoshman I have no idea what @PandaWoll meant FTR.
 
user3010322
4:22 PM
Mono implements CLI and C#, but not anything else, right?
 
And hey it's also ISO-approved so there
 
@BartekBanachewicz probably that if you compile for windows, you can't then run on linux
 
@Rapptz ECMA 335 is on the 6th edition, last updated in 2012.
 
@thecoshman sigh
 
C# is also not .NET
Regardless
 
4:23 PM
@BartekBanachewicz meant it works in Poland.
"Works on my country"!
 
Yeah you cant even create GUI application that works on more than one OS. You have to compile it for every os and sometimes even make a lot of changes for every OS.
 
Bullshit
 
@PandaWoll lol
 
Qt is nice but...
 
user3010322
Does Mono implement WPF?
 
4:24 PM
Also creating native UX tends to involve a lot of work for different platforms REGARDLESS
 
@ThePhD No
 
user3010322
Awww.
 
@PandaWoll you can OTOH spread uneducated bullshit which we don't even have to compile.
 
@PandaWoll Recompiling for each target does not mean it's not cross-platform.
 
user3010322
4:24 PM
Bummercakes. =[
 
Only parts of XAML
There's not enough demand for WPF
 
WPF doesn't look that bad
 
dude
WPF is shit.
 
but I think I'd prefer HTML
 
it's Object this, Singleton service that, MUST INTERPRET THIS SHIT FROM STRING AT RUNTIME!!11
 
4:25 PM
inb4 HTML rage
 
WPF is great but it would take a lot of work to port this to mono
 
@DeadMG dunno really, I have only used it briefly so far
 
Oh no object whatever I'm going to do
 
@BartekBanachewicz html is nicer than it was 10 years ago
 
user3010322
WTB awesome C++ UI that can use different rendering backends and is lookless. ;~;
 
4:26 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I wonder what happens when you try to run an app that's not Poland-compatible
 
@BartekBanachewicz WW2
 
I had to do some XSLT in uni and it remind me how I hated it and still hate it
 
XSLT is literally cancer.
 
Native UI gives a lot better user experience than HTML one man.
 
user3010322
XSLT.... sounds familiar...
 
4:27 PM
Programming is literally Hitler
 
user3010322
I wonder where I know it from.
 
Let's talk about butts
 
@PandaWoll says who?
 
@BartekBanachewicz Transformation failed by an unknown error... try to debug that!
 
user3010322
What.... the fuck?
 
user3010322
4:28 PM
The web isn't complicated enough, let's implement it in XML?!
 
you know XHTML was a thing once
 
XSLT is not for the web
 
@ThePhD it has some nice good points
 
Also what
 
user3010322
 
user3010322
4:29 PM
I was reading that
 
look w3schools
 
user3010322
Is it some kind of CSS replacement?
 
Knowing that html closing tags are kind of optional... but some browsers screws this up... xhtml was a nice thing
 
user3010322
4:29 PM
Well then.
 
No it wasn't
 
@ThePhD learn to google already
 
There was nothing good about XHTML ever that would work
 
user3010322
That's where google led me. ;~;
 
@ThePhD you suck at that google thing
 
4:30 PM
@CatPlusPlus a valid xhtml file
 
you know it kinda sucks that HTML bears name resemblance to ML
 
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix Didn't solve anything
 
Anyway I know one thing - if you develop only for Windows then .NET is probably the best way to do it.
 
altough I am probably one of the 10 people around the world who notice that
@PandaWoll especially when you're making games, right?
 
Mono powers Unity
 
4:31 PM
Ok, maybe not heavy 3d games
 
also didn't you just say that "native" UIs are better and then praised WPF
because I'm getting kinda lost
 
user3010322
"native" UI.
 
user3010322
Clearly, MFC wins.
 
Because WPF is so fucking native
 
For me WPF is native
 
user3010322
4:32 PM
<_>
 
lol.
I have no idea what part of it, besides "Windows" in name, is native.
 
@CatPlusPlus well it solved that problem... at the time there was no "other" problem other than crappy css but it affected both format.
 
Native Polish apps lel.
 
user3010322
I'm going to implement N3851
 
I'm native in this nerd asylum
 
4:33 PM
it's in Polish so if it's ran in Poland then it's native.
 
user3010322
With the extra bit that array_view will be compile-time, and buffer_view will be not-compile-time view.
 
Making fun of anything is going to prove your point
 
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix It solved nothing. The problem was social: people keep writing crap HTML and browsers keep accepting it.
 
*sint
*isnt
 
@PandaWoll too late.
 
4:34 PM
uint
 
anyway, you haven't said shit to prove your "WPF is native" "point" either.
so because I am funnier I conclude I win.
 
@BartekBanachewicz It uses native controls?
 
I know it's not native technically but it gives you that native user experience
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Pretty sure that's WinForms. WPF renders with D3D9.
 
It "feels" native
 
4:35 PM
Yeah WPF doesn't use native controls
It only creates native windows for controls sometimes
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes it doesn't
@PandaWoll do Metro UI apps feel native?
 
Do this discussion feel native
Does anything really
What is native
What is life
 
I would rather write code in Objective-C than in C++ :P
 
lol that topic change
 
havent tried Metro yet
 
4:38 PM
hint we don't care what you'd rather do
@CatPlusPlus it's bacon
and ponies obviously
 
@BartekBanachewicz ...nah
 
@CatPlusPlus but bacon
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes well you can't write crap html in xhtml. It will not validate and you'll have a big error screen. xhtml didn't make people write good html.
 
inb4 butt bacon
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix I bet there are people in this world who can prove you wrong (and write crap XHTML).
 
user2985029
4:39 PM
hello everyone
 
@CatPlusPlus yes this is life
 
@BartekBanachewicz it won't get parsed
 
OMG THEY HAVE STATS <3 <3 <3
. LOVE SO MUCH LOVE
Atk
Def
Jerk
 
Cabbage owns
 
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix I mean that you can write XHTML that will parse but still be crap
gah spoilers
 
4:40 PM
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix It didn't solve anything
It only created more problems
 
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix It simply made people not write XHTML!
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes blame html not xhtml
 
No.
It's a social problem.
Gosh.
 
xhtml doesn't really solve anything here
web is a terrible community of people who write shit
and adding some more validation won't change that
 
4:43 PM
All XHTML ever did was create more work for the browser vendors
 
It's a problem of people, not technologies.
I'm the robot.
 
not starring that
 
I'm not the robot
 
not starring that either
 
well tell me that a technology that accept not well formatted document in an non-deterministic way isn't a problem.
 
4:44 PM
I want to learn OpenGL
someone please teach me
but I'm very terrible so I want easy explanations
 
It's not a problem you can solve by introducing another technology (here's a big hint: XHTML didn't convert all the HTML into valid XHTML automagically)
 
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix You're clearly not talking about HTML.
 
You can also get errors on HTML, you don't need XHTML for that
(Also it's totally deterministic)
 
@CatPlusPlus if you have open tags it might sometimes get parsed differently by different browsers, parsers etc
 
15 mins ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix It solved nothing. The problem was social: people keep writing crap HTML and browsers keep accepting it.
 
4:49 PM
I don't think they might
 
For exemple <p><p> should be converted to <p></p><p></p> because P cannot contain P. Yet some parsers will do this: <p><p></p></p> If you have more complex structures. some really weird things might happen
 
I think HTML parsing is well-defined
 
@CatPlusPlus EVERY problem can be solved introducing another technology!
 
if it defines some code as undefined then it's fucking undefined
 
@jalf Add new indirection -> problem solved.
 
4:50 PM
@jalf No no you're thinking of violence
 
@CatPlusPlus I think of violence as a technology, yes
 
Technology of the future
 
> The start tag is mandatory. The end tag may be omitted if the <p> element is immediately followed by an <address>, <article>, <aside>, <blockquote>, <div>, <dl>, <fieldset>, <footer>, <form>, <h1>, <h2>, <h3>, <h4>, <h5>, <h6>, <header>, <hr>, <menu>, <nav>, <ol>, <pre>, <section>, <table>, <ul> or another <p> element, or if there is no more content in the parent element and the parent element is not an <a> element.
 
HTML does define fallback and error handling more than does C++, though.
 
Seems quite deterministic to me.
 
4:51 PM
Plus that.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes yet on paper it is... but in reality
 
user1804599
Man.
 
But in reality XHTML implementations weren't any better, and you had to do content negotiation dance and IE was as bad as always
XHTML was a terrible idea, period
 
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix ... In reality we have people.
 
The salvageable parts were rolled into HTML5, the rest should be buried and forgotten
And good riddance
 
user3010322
4:53 PM
What's the plural of "millenium"?
 
user3010322
millenia? milleniums?
 
Millennia
 
@ThePhD What language is that?
:P
 
user3010322
Uhm.
 
user3010322
I dunno.
 
4:54 PM
It has two n
 
user3010322
Wikipedia to the rescue!
 
user1804599
This stuff is so damn good.
 
user3010322
A millennium (plural millennia) is a period of time equal to 1000 years. It derives from the Latin ', thousand, and ', year. It is often, but not necessarily, related to a particular dating system. Sometimes, it is used specifically for periods of thousand years that begin at the starting point (initial reference point) of the calendar in consideration (typically the year "1"), or in later years that are whole number multiples of a thousand years after it. The term can also refer to an interval of time beginning on any date. Frequently in the latter case (and sometimes also in the form...
 
> but not necessarily, related to a particular dating system.
When a millenium helps you find a girl
 
user2985029
or a boy
 
4:57 PM
Apparently milleniums might be accepted somewhere
 

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