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Ell
Ell
22:01
I like DNews
Benchmarks or it didn't happen. — Mysticial 7 secs ago
better put the big D to bed.
@DeadMG Dork?
@rightfold Is OMG ponies your sock puppet or just a coincidental SO member with a similar fetish? =p
@MonadNewb what? Ponies are very popular here. And are also awesome! :3
Xeo
Xeo
22:07
@rightfold *Viel
@MonadNewb also your Q is extremely retarded
Ponies are for grrls
Are comments on reddit voted up and down the same they are voted up and down on SO?
@MonadNewb I don't know if your question sucks now more or less than you :F
@MonadNewb Also fuck "OpenGL Programming Guide" is fucking expensive
I should probably buy it though
@BartekBanachewicz Daisy, numpty
22:14
@BartekBanachewicz 12.04 LTS has support till end-2017, that's not my definition of outdated
@sehe but it needs more effort on essential configuration
@BartekBanachewicz Which Q? My OpenGL Q or my pony fetish Q?
@MonadNewb OGL Q both really
Ell
Ell
Ubuntu is great
"it needs more" (/what/ needs more /what/)
22:15
@BartekBanachewicz well thanks for answering anyway =p
it ships with older versions by default
@MonadNewb I have downvoted at first, but then changed my mind vOv (so that one is not mine)
eh, here, have an upvote
0 is a proper score for this Q
also it's most certainly a dupe
@BartekBanachewicz ;p
Don't onebox Amazon stuff tia
@LightnessRacesinOrbit ;)
22:18
ITT Don't use SO chat features in SO chat tia
don't like SO chat? don't come into SO chat. tia.
what's tia?
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Cat is totally not writing his own better chat right now
@Aboutblank Thanks In Advance
SO chat has a lot of broken stupid features, so yeah, don't use them.
@BartekBanachewicz I'm sure many will use it!
nn
Ell
Ell
22:19
One box should be client optional
Some oneboxes are way too big.
what about two boxes?
> Examine why pointers can be the source of security problems, such as buffer overflow
@BartekBanachewicz Guess I should have looked into what version of OGL my computer supports before I bought a book about the latest and greatest.
@MonadNewb no problem. As a beginner you won't give a shit if it's 3.3 or 4.3. (If it's lower than 3.3 that's worse)
@MonadNewb also 4.4 is already out FYI (the spec, not the book)
Ell
Ell
Hmm. Premake didn't generate the -std=c++11 flag in wides makefile
22:21
I worked with 1.x or 2.x a long time ago and recently wanted to refresh and learn more about it. Then I started to see how much has changed since 3.x...
@MonadNewb it now is actually starting to become usable
Unfortunately, I have a pretty old computer atm, so I"m not even sure if it supports 3.x ;-(
there are still extensions
anyway 3.3 is supported since GF 9xxx and up, that's ancient
umm...IIRC I have a GF 7600 ;-(
I'm not at home right now, so I can't double check
@MonadNewb ouch.
well I've started learning GL on a GPU that only supported vertex shaders
22:26
Guess I'll have to save up some money for a little bit newer GPU then.
@MonadNewb buy a GTX 560. They're cheap-ass cheap now. And run Bioshock:Infinite on High
or if you have some proper spare cash, Kepler (series 600) already, they will be supported with newest features longer (but I am not sure if you will want to buy a GPU based on development needs not gaming needs)
gah, I need to learn the nVidia alphabet soup...
Ell
Ell
560 is cheap now?
2 hundo when I got mine
and I'll need to see what my mobo will support
@MonadNewb just hope it doesn't still have AGP :p
22:31
@melak47 and why should that matter really? ah you mean motherboard not gpu
@BartekBanachewicz I don't have any PC games ATM since I've been mostly gaming on PS3. I'll definitely want to look at both gaming and dev needs for my next GPU upgrade.
@BartekBanachewicz if he ahs no PCI-E, that would limit his upgrade choices a lot
@melak47 yes, I do have PCIE ;-)
@MonadNewb then go for low-end 700 series GPU.
@MonadNewb 1? 2? 3?
22:32
@BartekBanachewicz off to newegg for a moment.
@melak47 they are backwards compatible
@melak47 umm...slots or speed?
oh...version
@MonadNewb version :D
@MonadNewb basically when buying stuff for dev, get newest ones. for gaming, get 1-2 cards older, because games don't use newest features and performance will be better
umm...not sure
22:33
I spent around $400 on my GPU :F
Ell
Ell
" error move is not a member of std"
:(
@BartekBanachewicz you have a GTX 670, right?
@BartekBanachewicz I'm not going to be able to afford that much right now.
@Ell NDK certainly supports C++11
@melak47 yup. factory OCed
@BartekBanachewicz me too :)
guess we're both outdated now with the 700 series :p
22:35
@melak47 not really
the changes are minimal
and 600-s are still getting full support
@MonadNewb well, 700 series aren't released with low-end models yet (yes, that's a deliberate move to make people spend more)
Ell
Ell
@bartek I'm trying to compile wide :/
Ell
Ell
From SSH on my tablet
Ell
Ell
Its a pain in the bottom
22:37
@BartekBanachewicz so if your voxels are 2D...they don't really have a volume? So shouldn't they be called, idk...Area Picture Elements -> Axels? :p
@melak47 Axels is pretty, I like it.
@BartekBanachewicz I'll have to check if my mobo even supports PCI-E 2.0. It's ancient...
5 mins ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
@melak47 they are backwards compatible
@BartekBanachewicz so I can drop a PCIE2 board into a PCIE1 slot? oh...yah...that makes sense.
> PCIe 2.0 motherboard slots are fully backward compatible with PCIe v1.x cards. PCIe 2.0 cards are also generally backward compatible with PCIe 1.x motherboards, using the available bandwidth of PCI Express 1.1. Overall, graphic cards or motherboards designed for v2.0 will work with the other being v1.1 or v1.0a.
22:38
yeah version number is not that important
Ell
Ell
Non volume voxels are pixels
@Ell shhh
@Ell but pixels inherently have no area
just like voxels inherently have no volume, really
cube is simply one representation of voxel
@BartekBanachewicz "generally" haha
the main thing is being placed in a regular way
> will work
either way, I like the "Axel" term
22:40
@MonadNewb the lower the version number, the lower the bandwidth, but if you get a low end card like that it will hardly ever matter
@melak47 k...I'm way behind on GPU technology. Got lots of catching up to do.
Ell
Ell
Axel just makes me thing of axis
Axel sounds like Achsel, which is German for armpit :)
Sparse Armpit Raytracing?
fuck
> but you still a loader
amazing comment. (from me, no less)
@melak47 i am still unsure if i will be able to show anything nice with 2D only
22:46
what was the idea?
to draw on the floor somehow
like you know, you use a flashlight, it's 2D, but the floor is still lightened and walls block it
maybe you could do voxel cone tracing in 2D - bounce that light around, yo
yeah, except it would look exceptionally weird, because the walls would reflect light on the floor
that would made floor nearer the walls brighter
and that's unrealistic because of ambient occlusion
so multiply intensity with AO :D
there's another, much nicer idea, but if I tell you the secret of how it works, I will have to kill you
because, y'know, secret.
22:50
tell me, then give me a lethal dose of OGL
lemme keep that a secret for a while more, aight? ;> I promise that if I decide I am not going to implement it I will tell you anyway
but if I do, I will just post a screenshot and you will know pretty much instantly how awsum it is
ok :p
for now, raycasts starting inside the root
hm
Ell
Ell
In regular lighting
Ell
Ell
22:57
You do 1 render pass per light, right?
@Ell more or less.
@Ell well, you can supply more lights to the shader :F
Ell
Ell
I thought you could only pass 8 max?
point is, you have to run a for loop, so what's essential is that each light is iterated over the geometry
@Ell what. where. how.
You can really create 2MB 1D texture and fill it with light data if you want to vOv
8 might have been a DX9 fixed pipeline thing..
23:00
and OGL1.x thing (and prolly 2.x too if we're talking about gl_Light)
Ell
Ell
Yeah. I was wondering why lights were special xD
@Ell because they were initially supported as a part of GL
now there's no mention of lights at all.
Ell
Ell
So why do you need multiple render passes? O.o
@Ell you don't need multiple render passes
you need singular pass, but repeated.
that's a major difference.
Ell
Ell
Well why do you need multiple repeats?
Couldn't you put a for each light in the fragment shader?
23:02
instruction limits in shaders? idk
Ell
Ell
Or vertex, or wherever it goes
@Ell that's deferred rendering.
@Ell that's slow.
Ell
Ell
How can that be slow but repeating the whole pass not be slow?
I don't understaaaand
@Ell repeating whole pass is slow too
where "slow = scales badly with increasing number of lights"
rule of thumb: you want to minimize the for loops over geometry
Ell
Ell
Right
23:08
12
A: Is there a way to use an arbitrary number of lights in a fragment shader?

Nicol BolasThere are generally two methods for dealing with this. Nowadays, they are called forward rendering and deferred rendering. There is one variation on these two that I will discuss below. Forward rendering Render each object once for every light that affects it. This includes the ambient light. Y...

this answer explains difference between per-fragment forward lighting and deferred lighting
the main difference is that the lighting won't run on fragments that are going to be discarded anyway
@BartekBanachewicz Was that about this question? /cc @MonadNewb
0
A: How can I switch between fstream files without closing them (Simultaneous output files) - C++

seheIt looks like you would like to juggle the filebufs on an ostream& object. Now, the only obstacle is that ostream or basic_filebuf<char> aren't copyable types, so you can't put them into a map (by filename) directly. This is easily worked around by creating a little Holder type: struct Holder {...

Ell
Ell
Hmm what about transparency if only the surface parameters are stored?
@Ell deferred rendering cannot into transparency
@sehe No, we were discussing my recent OGL Q: stackoverflow.com/questions/17913380/…
@sehe your SO profile is a proper coding blog itself :F
um wat
The && operator works inside the enable_if expression. — Potatoswatter 19 hours ago
TIL
23:28
Fixed and further simplified after realizing you wanted to have files created if they didn't exist yet. — sehe 5 secs ago
fuck, I think that I will have to severely change this code to allow rays from inside
btw
it seems to me that a Compute-shader based solution would beat all of the listed approaches?
Fixed and further simplified after realizing you wanted to have files created if they didn't exist yet. And removed the use of Boost Filesystem (as CheckExistance wasn't needed after all). See it all live at Colirusehe 7 secs ago
@BartekBanachewicz Hmm? What constitutes a coding blog? Also, my SO profile is very empty
@sehe the size of your "answers" (because answering the OP is really the least of your goals, no? :P)
@DeadMG um, why should it exactly? What would that shader compute?
@BartekBanachewicz Ah. Yeah, I tend to answer to my own curiosity mostly
23:42
@BartekBanachewicz Well, if you replaced the vertex and pixel shader with compute shaders, you can add another input to the pixel shader.
I mean
the fundamental problem here is that you need N lights to be passed to the pixel shader, but you can't, because all it can take is the interpolated vertex data.
@DeadMG and uniforms.
it's seriously only the problem of loop unwinding and code size @melak47 talked about
add it to the light structure
you still need to iterate over lights somehow
23:45
well, the newer SMs have actual loops
which shouldn't be used ever. (performance)
eh, I heard that they're fine as long as each shader branches in the same direction (which they would, because the lights would be the same for every pixel)
no, they're really not. First guide of optimizing loops in shaders is don't use loops in shaders.
are you seriously trying to tell me that running a loop over part of a shader is going to be more expensive than running a loop on the CPU and issuing a command to run the entire shader in a loop?
not to mention all of the intermediate reading/writing
@DeadMG no, it will be more expensive than unrolling that loop at shader compile time
23:48
since that's not the alternative used by deferred or forward rendering, then that's quite irrelevant, no?
@DeadMG deffered rendering actually renders "entire shader in a loop", so...
so you have the same loop, but it's executed on the CPU, involves a whole bunch of unnecessary textures and reading and writing, and has to be larger than the same loop done on the GPU
not to mention more draw calls, kernel context switches, synchronization, stuff like that
that's not the same as having the shader compiler unroll the loop
@DeadMG and it's still faster, because there's less computations and they are easier
that's because memory has extreme performance, and shading units slightly lower
so that's a tradeoff taking a bit of load off GPU processor and putting it on GPU memory link
@sehe that command won't work for msysgit users, msysgit doesn't come with man, if they want to use a command to view documentation, they have to use git rev-parse --help. — Cupcake 7 hours ago
you pretty much prepare everything you need earlier, removing it from the inner "for each light" loop
23:56
@BartekBanachewicz Which my proposed solution also achieves, but a lot more effectively.
^ Wait a second. That guy self-answered what is effectively a copy of man git-rev-parse. Got 11 upvotes. That's an idea
@DeadMG you didn't really say what your solution is and how it's supposed to work
cpx
cpx
I'm still alive.
you coulda said that you didn't understand earlire :P
@DeadMG that was not relevant to "why loops suck" and "why deferred rendering is sometimes faster"
23:59
well, if you don't know what I'm suggesting the loops replace, it's difficult to suggest that they are slower, no?

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