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12:58 AM
Shit, I'm hungry
 
We call this dish "sanitary pads à 4"
 
wait... what?
eww
 
yup. That's what I thought
 
Not hungry anymore, thanks
 
Anytime :)
Now. How can we scroll that thing off screen
 
1:07 AM
@sehe We can get rid of it quicker than that.
 
I wasn't really in a hurry. But it helps
 
@sehe Now we just need to add some eye-bleach links.
 
Can someone confirm this for me ?
IIRC typename is required when a type -- in a template or not -- is gotten from some other type.
 
1:27 AM
@ThePhD I think it should just return auto.
 
It shouldn't be required in that instance, but you have to watch out for the concepts you are trying to satisfy
 
@ThePhD Hmm...at least in the code that's showing there, the only use of those typedefs is for the return types, and he's replaced those with decltype(auto). If you're allowed to assume C++14 (or newer) just auto as the return type should be fine.
 
Oops
I was more referring to above that
The removed typedef typename global_table::iterator iterator;
Sorry, should have been specific.
Albeit, I should just decltype(auto) them, I guess.
 
@ThePhD Oh--yeah, he's right. The typename isn't needed and shouldn't be allowed since that's not in a template (though arguably this is a defect in the standard, and typename should be allowed there for consistency, since it's harmless).
I was going to provide a quote for that, but in looking for it I ran across this and got distracted:
typedef int N;
template<N X, typename N, template<N Y> class T> struct A;
So quick: what sort of beasts are X and Y?
 
1:44 AM
Isn't there an ambiguity?
 
I'm going to say X is an int, Y is whatever typename N resolves to.
Either that or it fails to compile.
 
Yeah.
 
Never seen this before youtube.com/watch?v=5c6bjVXLdBM
 
It's like he keeps thinking: "Maybe they haven't noticed yet."
 
i want to read book at company,but i think my boss and co-worker may think my work complete,and should give other work.how to learn in company and not engage other's attention?
 
2:00 AM
Why can't you read it on your free time?
 
I am using some tools and did a backup and restore of an old hard disk that might have some problem. But now the new hard disk only boot half way, then abort and trying to reboot again.
Is it possible to use some external tools to fix the boot sector?
 
because other people is busy,if i read book all day,it will let me help other do their work to relieve their work stress
 
You can't read a book on your free time because other people are busy?
What
 
maybe i think too much
3
 
2:16 AM
read it on pdf
 
i bought many paper book.but have no time read ....
 
2:39 AM
@ThePhD Yup.
@StackedCrooked Nope.
 
@Mysticial I'm disappointed by Big Order by Nikki's writer. Failed to live up to the pacing and atmosphere of its predecessor, yet kept all the plot holes and poor character development
 
Back in my day, we called them "doom clones"
 
no trash talk & video unlike shitty new cod
 
@Aaron3468 It's the same author? I didn't know that. lol
 
That's a nice demo, some gorgeous graphics, and smooth movement. kudos to the devs of that game
 
3:42 AM
it reminds me good old quacke 3 arena
 
@Mysticial Haha, yeah. Don't get me wrong, Nikki's characters are memorable but they didn't develop much. Yuno remained Ms. Creepy Fanservice, and Yuuki remained Mr. Angsts-a-lot. Big Order doesn't have those memorable one on one character moments to justify the bad writing
 
I think Yuuki was supposed to stay creepy Yandere. But yeah, Yuno should've changed.
 
Bad idea #512: Emulators and/or ai competition http-clients in python.
#513: rolling your own http libraries
 
4:01 AM
Fuck, why did wingdi, take all the good #defines?
 
This startup repair is taking ages ...
 
So, how do you guys distribute binaries for Windows. I built everything into my library in vmware, into a single dll + MSVC universal RT, is there some other way? I'm worried about illegal instruction errors. In Linux you'd set the target, and arch...
 
Ben
@Mikhail which Windows versions are you targeting?
 
4:28 AM
@Mikhail Run your binary though Intel's emulator and target the older processors.
 
4:43 AM
I'm targeting Windows 7/10, so I setup vmware in Windows 7
How do the "pros" do it?
@Mysticial That sounds reasonable, how fast does it run? Is it a true emulator?
 
5:00 AM
@Mikhail If you're emulating downwards, it's almost as fast as native once it JITs everything. If you're emulating upwards, it's gonna be a long wait.
Note that if you're running Windows 10, emulating downwards below Ivy Bridge doesn't work because the Windows runtime uses rdseed which the emulator will complain about.
I can only emulate downwards on my Win7 boxes.
 
Sounds cool, I'll start downloading ICC. I'm gonna give it a shot on my Windows 7 system. What I'm really curious about is how to prevent these problems in the first place.
 
Don't use native.
Always pick a target.
I cross-compile a lot too so I have to do that.
 
Can you do that on Windows? The targets are called "enhanced instruction sets"?
 
Actually, I almost exclusively cross-compile.
@Mikhail Yeah, if you're from within Visual Studio.
The command line options are more obvious.
 
I guess whats confusing is that /arch:SSE seems to only apply to SSE instructions, rather than a more specific ISA like on linux...
 
5:05 AM
If you don't specify a target, it will default to /arch:SSE2.
 
Okay, so every CPU I care about is SSE2, but what about other instructions?
 
Please tell me you're not trying to target anything older than that.
It will run on everything that has SSE2.
 
Okay, but in addition the SSE, didn't Intel introduce other instructions? Like “cat /proc/cpuinfo shows more stuff than just SSE...
 
If you say /arch:SSE2 (or omit a target), the binary is guaranteed to run on everything that supports SSE2.
It won't use anything past SSE2.
And if you're compiling for x64, it implies all x64 since all x64 has SSE2.
 
@Mikhail there is a cpuid intrinsic for accessing cpuid information in vs
 
5:11 AM
For example, its not clear if ABM is enabled when you do SSE3...
 
@Mikhail It is not.
 
Is it just never enabled?
 
It'll turn on if you target Haswell.
 
In GCC I understand, but its not immediately clear what the corresponding SSE option is for ABM (popcount)
SSE4?
 
5:15 AM
ABM has popcount and lzcount. Both showed up on AMD K8 or K10. Nehalem added popcount. Haswell adds lzcount. And Haswell sets the ABM flag.
 
Yeah, so in GCC I can choose a processor and architecture but what the heck do we choose in VS? Its not even an SSE!
 
Depends on what you want.
VS also targets a minimum of SSE2 if you omit the flags.
 
Okay, I guess I'll fiddle around with the flags, I need to also check the libraries I cmaked, including a static version of qt (which took 2 hours to build).
 
if you build x64 it is automatically sse2. x64 abi requires sse2 (in windows!)
sandpile.org/x86/cpuid.htm - when you need to implement runtime detection on vs
 
Out of curiosity does ICC do implicit run-time detection?
 
5:27 AM
@Mikhail you are going to implement vtbl dispatch to variations by cpu type? or are you going to buld an old-arch/new-arch version of the executables?
 
@Mikhail It's complicated.
 
I'm thinking old-arch/new-arch in a dll for the tight loops, and then load them up in LoadLibraryEx because fuck the police
 
@Mikhail yes it does, there was an anti-trust lawsuit over it, it picked unoptimized code for non-intel
 
I can live with that, but does it actually pick optimized code :-)
 
the judgement was that they have to disclose it, so they plastered their site with disclaimers
and left the substandard perf on non-intel intact
 
5:29 AM
Also they are giving AMD millions of dollars, from what I recall
 
intel missed an opportunity for it to crash on non-intel then say "hey, not our fault" :)
 
"our segfault"
 
VIA has a quad-core that has AVX, AVX2, but not FMA3.
It was causing problems for a number of programs that checked AVX2 and expected to have FMA3.
 
5:47 AM
fma can only be decoded by the first decoder, right? isnt the decode bottleneck an issue?
iirc it has 2 cycle throughput
 
I don't know which decoders can do it. But both FP ports can do them.
 
the decoder is a beast though, it probably gets far enough ahead for that to not matter
 
I've rarely run into decoder problems for FP code.
 
4 insns per clock of that mess of an opcode map is pretty amazing
 
You're not getting anywhere near 4 for FP code.
 
5:51 AM
I mean peak decode bandwidth
 
I used to write FP code with massive unrolling to get around the high latencies.
That didn't work anymore on Haswell because you only have 16 registers and you need 10 FMAs to saturate the FP units.
So I switched to a different style that uses smaller loops that abuse register renaming across loop iterations.
Indirectly, that also got rid of the decoder problems.
 
loop stream detector might kick in and give you essentially peak decode bandwidth, if the loop fits
haswell has 192 instruction reorder buffer, a lot of iterations of a smaller loop, starting loads miles ahead
 
Doesn't the compiler automatically handle the register renaming?
 
I found that even that isn't enough. A typical loop will have like 20 - 50 cycle critical path with not too much ILP inside. So you need 10 of them in parallel to be able to saturate the FP units. Problem is that you can't fit 10 x 50 cycle iterations into the reorder buffer.
 
Can you give a sense of what the code looks like?
 
5:58 AM
@Mikhail the cpu does register renaming, to allow for future iterations of a loop to be using the same (physical) register, the different iterations are assigned different temporary registers internally
 
Yeah, I know internally it does that, but I'm not sure what the coding side looks like.
 
essentially each store to a register (from programmer perspective) assigns it a new virtual register in the pipeline
 
@Mikhail My radix 4 FFT butterfly has a dependency chain of 6 FMAs. That's 30 cycles.
 
it is a "new version" of that register
 
I can do about 2 of them in parallel before I run out of registers.
So it takes 5 different loop iterations to saturate the FPUs.
 
5:59 AM
if you understand SSA, you can imagine it being done in hardware
 
That's minimum 150 cycles of reorder buffer.
My FFT only gets about 1 FP instruction/cycle.
 
I don't understand what a code that is explicitly designed to take advantage of register renaming looks like. I assume that if you just had a for loop it would queue them up and saturate when it has exhausted registers (assuming the data is in cache`). And then you wait.
 
That's one way. The other one is to write you code in an "expand and compress" manner. Where a bunch of computation that touches a lot of registers "compresses" into a 1 or 2 of them. Then you can do another one of them reusing all those temporary registers.
Register renaming will all the two to run in parallel.
 
So, I assume that when you've exhausted the temporary registers there is a synchronization event. So you need to know how many there are to begin with and never exceed that number?
 
mov eax,[ebx] / mov [edx],eax / mov eax,[ebx+4] / mov [edx+4],eax <--- the renamer can start the second dependency chain that loads [ebx+4] before the first few instructions finish with eax
imagine it doing more with eax though, before the store
it "renames" eax for those instructions, so the first ones can use their separate version of eax
 
6:06 AM
Yeah, I think I understand that, I'm just trying to understand more about how to actually use that knowledge :-)
 
Small loops that can parallelize across iterations is the easiest and most obvious to write.
 
Which is to say that you get the benefit most of the time, because small loops that parallelize across iterations is the most common kind of loop for most data processing applications...
 
mov eax,1 mov eax,2 mov eax,3 mov eax,4 <-- the cpu can issue and execute all four of these at once, they all get assigned a different register internally, but it remembers that it is eax when retiring
you dont really worry about rename very much, it is the reason why compilers dont use all registers with impunity, they try to keep it down to the number of registers they need, you can reuse one register with no regard for earlier use of it, it wont wait for that register, it will be a new dependency chain
 
Aaaaahhhh latex.
 
@Mysticial really only one per cycle? why? are you sure it isn't an 80 cycle load followed by amazing fpu perf?
sudo perf top for the win
it can annotate right down to the number of cycles per instruction, with a couple of enter presses, jumping to worst insn by default, in realtime, no files or crap
it's like "top" but it shows symbols for worst function, systemwide, and enter press takes you to disassembly annotated with cycle count (or mispredict or cache miss or whatever) right beside every instruction, updated every second, with source if symbols allow
in my measurements, fpu code is free and you only have cycles from memory delays, lol
"free" because it is done before memory gives you more stuff
mysticial don't worry, I realize your optimization problem is particularly difficult
the "problem" being it isnt infinite speed yet
 
6:25 AM
@doug65536 Yeah. That's the case even when it's in L1 cache.
 
I do easier sse optimization problems than yours and I find the fpu performance to be absolutely fantastic, it is the memory access instructions that take cycles
 
It drops off when it's in memory.
I think it might've been a bit nigher than 1.0 when it's all in L1.
Not that it matters too much.
I'm using an algorithm that does a radix 2 butterfly in 6 FMAs with a critical path of 3 FMAs.
So it has higher latency than the normal butterfly, but fewer instructions.
 
example: I have a unit test that builds 16000 transformation matrices by multiplying a 4x3 rotation matrix from axis/angle with a translate, then uploading them all to laptop gpu every frame, 60 fps, not even 50% of one cpu
it is hand optimized sse matrix mul and axis/angle matrix code though, with intrinsics
 
Whats the application?
 
opengl renderer thread unit test
 
6:30 AM
So you optimized the function that generates the unit tests?
 
it builds 960,000 transformation matrices per second and uploads them to a gpu with < 50% of one core
 
Well I can get something better on the GPU...
 
i.e. it passes a "let's see if I animate 16000 things" test
 
Off-topic. But GCC's inline assembler is almost useless unless you specify both a memory constraint and volatile. I spent 2 hours today (which watching basketball) trying to track some shit down that worked in Windows and not Linux.
 
you still always need __volatile__ eh? been like that for many years
 
6:33 AM
I had an inline assembler loop that wrote to some pointers that you pass into it. I marked memory for clobber thinking that would do it.
That wasn't enough.
 
I stick to intrinsics now so I don't notice
 
One of the callers had a local array on the stack. It passed the array (as a pointer) into the function with the inline asm.
The function with the inline asm got inlined into the called. So the pointers are no longer in memory.
So the memory clobber becomes useless.
 
hello
 
And GCC deleted the entire asm block because it didn't think it had anymore side-effects.
 
Can't you std::atomic_signal_fence(std::memory_order_seq_cst)?
 
6:35 AM
So it wasn't writing to the stack array anymore.
@Mikhail That wouldn't have worked since it's a memory barrier. GCC promoted the entire array into register.
The array was only like 5 elements.
 
@Mysticial you should be as explicit as possible with your data flow in the inputs/outputs, to help the compiler understand, but yeah, as long as I can remember, every asm uses __volatile__ to avoid overly aggressive elision
 
I guess this is what I get for not running the unit tests in Linux for a while.
I run them in Windows on a regular basis because that's what I normally use. I'm a bit lazy with the Linux ones.
It also didn't help that Ubuntu 16.04 had that hilariously bad installer bug.
 
what bug?! I'm about to upgrade soon
 
go with Gentoo
 
So I stopped using it until the fix showed up in the software center like today.
18
Q: Problem with .deb packages on Ubuntu 16.04

Shahram Shinshaawh This bug has now been fixed upstream. An update has been issued. If you still cannot install, ensure you have updated fully, and then restart your computer. I am trying to install downloaded DEB packages. Each time, I see a warning like this: And clicking install just loads and nothing ch...

 
6:41 AM
thanks
 
I was most interested in 16.04 because it has GCC 5.3 out of the box and that fixes a bug in the add-with-carry intrinsics which have been bugged since 4.8/4.9 all the way to 5.2.
Oh btw... My experiment with explicitly controlling all layers of cache didn't turn out very well.
But it was still right on expectations since my chip doesn't have a deep enough cache hierarchy for it matter much.
I'm gonna need something with an L4 or Knights Landing to get more than the measly 10% that I'm getting now.
 
did you try anything with gpu compute or phi ?
 
by deep you mean 4 level?
 
@Mikhail yeah
 
gpu compute gets less useless everyday :)
 
6:47 AM
One of the big problems that I'm running into is the write back overhead.
If I access everything directly (no cache control), I use N bytes of memory.
If I control all layers of cache, I need N bytes + 8 MB L3 + 256k L2 + 32k L1.
 
Um, don't CPUs have like 50MB of L3?
 
user1804599
.@rtfeldman that they are interested in multiple technologies, and unlike many have potential to be competent
 
That extra memory usage eventually needs to be written back to memory. And I don't have enough control to tell it not to.
 
user1804599
PC shock factor: it's not allowed to say some people are bad at some things
 
@Mikhail the ones that have a really large amount also have a lot more cores
 
6:49 AM
@Mysticial But I assume the L4 part is your own C++ implementation?
 
So in a lot of cases, the cache control backfires.
@Mikhail No. I'm attempting to actually control the 3 layers of hardware cache.
 
does the cpu obey the prefetch hint fully?
 
@doug65536 They do. I haven't done the prefetching yet.
The best case I have right now is actually to ignore the L2 and L3. And limit the butterflies to what fits in L1 only.
 
ouch, that is not much
 
IOW, control the L1. The moment I open up extra memory to control the L2 or L3, it all goes to hell.
I haven't done prefetching yet. But I'll take a shot at that this weekend.
Prefetching works really well on my current single-layer cache control design that y-cruncher uses.
It's like +5% when HT is disabled and +1-2% when HT is enabled.
 
6:51 AM
that's why I keep saying sudo perf top, it will tell you exactly which instructions are stalling retirement
 
VTune is better.
 
ok, as long as you are looking at that I'll shut up about perf top :D
 
I can tell from Vtune that my scratch buffers meant to fit in each level of cache are having the intended affect. But I didn't expect the write back and gather overhead to be so much.
I'm gonna need a deeper cache.
Given that hardware is trending in that direction anyway, I'm probably gonna promote this cache control experiment onto the long-term to-do list.
But given the sheer complexity of it, I have yet to figure out how to fully integrate it into the existing algorithms without a massive code explosion.
There's probably gonna be an insane amount of TMP.
 
Okay, I'm curious as to how this is implemented in practice, do you CPU specific intrinsic to load and unload the cache or do you perform operations and hope the cache is doing what you want? (I don't actually know how to do this kind of work)
 
@Mikhail Normally, my FFT butterflies are all in-place.
 
6:56 AM
So if you choose the right structure sizes it will fit and work?
 
With the explicit cache, what I do is that I load them from "slow memory" into registers. Do the butterfly, then write them into "fast memory".
In the process, that implicitly copies the data into a contiguous small memory region that fits into a lower level of cache.
 
So you mirror the CPU cache with your own data structures?
 
So now, all subsequent operations won't be hit by conflict misses and shit.
@Mikhail yeah
y-cruncher's implementation only does it at one level. Cache/memory. It does NTA prefetches on the reads. And it does NT stores on the write backs.
It works out really well.
 
Performant isn't a word, is it?
 
Now I'm trying to extend this to all the lower levels of cache as well.
 
6:59 AM
@ThePhD yes it is
 
@ThePhD I hear it used a lot. who decides?
 
Turns out Performant is French.
@doug65536 Peer Reviewed paper.
 
Etymology
From French
Adjective: performant ‎(comparative more performant, superlative most performant)
  1. (jargon, chiefly computing) Capable of or characterized by an adequate or excellent level of performance or efficiency.
  2. Ours is a performant network monitoring and systems monitoring tool.
  3. This software is more performant than its predecessor.
  4. Of or relating to performance
  5. performant m ‎(feminine singular performante, masculine plural performants, feminine plural performantes)
  6. efficient, effective, performant
Noun: performant ‎(plural performants)
  1. Someone who performs something, such as a ritual
Verb: performant
  1. present participle of performer
 
I'll go with efficient for now
 
I think of performant to have a connotation of "not bad". I don't interpret it as "very good"
 
7:01 AM
Anyways, I need to sleep.
 
@Mysticial good night!
the "adequate" definition is the most precise in the usage I've heard
a short way of saying it uses the correct algorithms and isn't wasteful
 
7:17 AM
Adequate has a slightly bad connotation, "not good but adequate".
 
Ven
Yo
@ThePhD indeed :p
 
> The selfie drone is finally here
> finally
 
Horay! No more need to carry around a clunky selfie stick!
 
He is really Schizo..
https://twitter.com/templeos
 
7:33 AM
@TempleOS its time to stop posting, terry
 
@Mysticial Do you guys use random pause profiling ?
oh he went to bed
 
@coincoin absolutely not. I use real profiling tools
mostly linux "perf" tool lately, because it is as easy as it can get and very detailed
 
@doug65536 and why not the above one ?
I personnally use cachegrind
 
you must mean callgrind
 
but I am interested in investigating in random pause profiling
 
7:35 AM
callgrind is the profiler
 
yes
Was thinking kcachegrind
:)
 
@ProblemSlover He is. He's gotten a lot more racist recently.
 
yeah cachegrind is a thing too... for cache miss analysis
I just dropped a potato chip and it landed in the bag!
from a metre above it
 
RTA meteor
That would have been impressive...
 
I don't think random pause gives you enough samples to be meaningful. If you are profiling one tiny thing in isolation, okay, but programs are large dynamic systems that change what they are doing frequently
there are tools like vtune and linux perf that use hardware features of your cpu to give you extremely detailed performance information with very little impact on the performance
they talk about vtune but the concept applies in other tools using that feature
I am not saying forget random pause, you can do some of that. you might catch the cpu in some function it shouldnt be or something. but it wont replace profilers entirely
 
user1804599
7:46 AM
Homo is by choice. That's why they are vile and guilty. If they stick a penis in yer face, I'm pretty sure you could choose to be aroused.
 
@doug65536 yosefk.com/blog/… might be worse reading
 
Xeo
@Mysticial Heh, I like Yuno.
 
gprof causes your code to spend around 20% of its time recording function entry and exit. the output it produces is useful though. valgrind runs simulations, it doesn't record actuals
you can tell cachegrind to pretend it is a 44MB L3 cache or whatever some crazy target arch has
useful information. it is all approximate. errors creep in. the exact values arent very relevant, only relative performance is relevant
 
A conservative estimate of available computational power in the observable universe is 10^85 total operations. An upper-bound estimation of the number of operations required to simulate all neuronal operations in the history of life on Earth is 10^44.
Just random trivia I found today.
 
@rightfold Please never write an OS. I would hate to see you lose your sanity :)
 
8:00 AM
I was one of those crazy kids that wanted to write an OS. I got a lot of the main stuff done too, before I realized I was crazy :)
 
Ven
yo yo
@fredoverflow funnily enough, @rightfold once had a project named "sanity" :P
 
user1804599
it's also on bitbucket
 
Ven
lol bite bucket
 
@rightfold it generates php code?
 
Ven
of course it does.
 
8:08 AM
ok. why? :)
 
@rightfold lol what
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes but if you make more brains to simulate brains of the past, then you’ll need even more
 
I killed a CIA nigger by running him over on 9/9/99. I was being followed by agents and freaked out. It's okay to run-over space aliens.
 
Ven
that guy/
 
also I've dominated the starboard again
 
Ven
8:11 AM
I masterbaited, once fantazing about my niece Lani, once. Newton confessed his sins. Makes you a genius.
@BartekBanachewicz I have a few there as well.
 
1) I have finally successfully backed up my old hard disk and restored on to a new hard disk
2) it's that time of the month again
3) I need to reactivate my prepaid android in the next few days so I can test apps on it
 
> No description or website provided
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Coordinating that between that many computers, though...
 
Ven
@Telkitty nice wig on that cat, btw
 
ty
 
8:17 AM
@ThePhD Not sure what you mean. The operations are available regardless how well you make use of them.
 
I am trying to delay the need to reactivate the android phone for as long as possibly
will try to 'borrow' bandwidth from iphone
just lost $170+ for forgetting the prepaid expiry date
 
Recommended, btw: amazon.com/dp/1501227742
Oh, that's an audiobook link.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes what's "available computational power in the observable universe"?
 
It's number of floppy disks.
 
@BartekBanachewicz I think it's pretty clear, no? The maximum number of computational operations you can perform.
That would involve mass restructuring of said space to produce massive amounts of computronium.
It's a low estimate because it uses low estimates for the amount of matter available to produce it and low estimates for the quality of the computronium.
 
8:27 AM
Its also an ironic use of the limited thermal budget of the universe, imagine of the universe's heat death is caused by a physics simulation of heat death!
 
8:45 AM
So what languages with optional typing do we have today
TypeScript I suppose
 
Does VBA count?
 
well it does, but it's not really interesting either
Also I think peerDependencies in NPM is amazing
every package manager should have that
welp yeah TS 1.8 looks really nice
 
user1804599
TypeScript gets null checking soon.
 
What do you mean by "null checking"?
Sadly it lacks pattern matching yet
 
user1804599
So that you have to explicitly specify when a type contains null.
 
user1804599
8:52 AM
The next step is hopefully to add an option to turn off covariant arrays and function parameters.
 
Ven
@BartekBanachewicz Common Lisp, Perl 6, Erlang (well, successful typing), TypeScript, Ruby 3.0 should, Groovy ...
 
Perl and Ruby are awful
 
user1804599
Types in Perl 6 are a joke.
 
Groovy is pretty bad from what I've heard
 
Ven
8:53 AM
Perl 6 is cool. :)
 
user1804599
They're conservatively checked at optimization time and 100% unpredictable.
 
So CLisp and Erlang, first of which I personally don't like much
@Ven not if you actually want to write decent, maintainable, useful code
 
Ven
Also racket has all-or-nothing (like groovy)
 
for esolang wanking there are other languages, like C++
 
Ven
@BartekBanachewicz my Perl 6 code is readable, maintainable and useful
 
8:54 AM
keep telling yourself that
 
Ven
..except when I specifically don't want it to
 
user1804599
Write iron SSA directly.
 
user1804599
It type checks.
 
Ven
well, it's not – but that's because I suck at programming, not because Perl 6 is bad.
 
which you feel competent to assess desptite sucking at programming
 
Ven
8:55 AM
yes :).
 
good old stupid shit
 
Ven
because it's the same for anything I do or don't assess.
 
user1804599
Perl 6 is shit.
3
 
@sehe this answer of yours was very useful: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/12769907/boostspiritqi-parser-index-of-parsed-element/12772075#12772075
thanks! it is exactly what I needed. I wish there was a way to not have to adapt the callables as boost phoenix things and be able to just use c++14 lambdas instead
For some reason I just prefer to think about parsing using semantic actions instead of attributes but spirit makes this harder than it should be.
 
user1804599
Special cases everywhere.
 
Ven
8:57 AM
Apr 22 at 7:50, by Zoidberg
Special cases are great.
coughes
 
user1804599
that was sarcasm
 
Ven
O RLY
 
I kind of wish grammars wouldn't know the types of the attributes but only concepts instead.
 

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