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10:00 AM
@Ven Unbelievable, isn't it :D
 
I don’t know the full story for sure so I can’t say
 
anyway if you want the conv op to be picked you can "just" call it explicitly
 
it used to be that I tried to stay away from the parts of the Standard that dealt with templates, initialization (that dreaded 8.5), overload resolution and conversions
 
or is that forbidden as well
 
sadly despite my best efforts I actually know some things about those parts—save for conversions and I’d like for it to remain that way
 
Ven
10:01 AM
@AndyProwl yep
 
@Ven I know the feeling
 
Ven
@VermillionAzure hearts and kisses, because it looks good :)
 
@VermillionAzure +1 star; for the effort
 
that's a weird flash you got there
 
Ven
10:03 AM
@milleniumbug if it weren't for the lounge, I'd have had to pop my question cherry!
 
needs some "maybe", "wtf", "standard says so" and "I think" arrows
 
@Ven day is saved again
 
@DmitriBudnikov that's my living room lights.
 
Ven
@Zoidberg backlog a bit, you were summoned
 
user1804599
@DmitriBudnikov No, it doens't.
 
user1804599
10:04 AM
@profunctor does
 
user1804599
instance Contravariant f => Profunctor (Clown (TYPE Lifted) (TYPE Lifted) f)
instance Functor f => Profunctor (Joker (TYPE Lifted) (TYPE Lifted) f)
 
oh yeah I forgot to tell Lounge
I got my first "research grant"
 
Run for the hills.
 
I'm a bit scared of asking what for
 
producing a bioinformatics workflow
 
10:09 AM
is bioinformatics something like the system behind login using your finger print for instance?
 
@KhaledKhnifer No.
 
@KhaledKhnifer yes
 
Bioinformatics is data analysis of biological data
 
from bio (latin for "cell") and informatics (greek for "computer")
so fingerprint detectors etc
waste processors too
 
I’m still waiting for breathalyzer-equipped keyboards
 
10:12 AM
with a ballmer peak indicator
 
@KhaledKhnifer The subfield that I'm familiar with is genomics. Specifically, analysis of genetic data and correlation with various other subjects such as diseases and physical attributes
 
user1804599
The taboo on effort and thinking in the JS community poisons the APIs.
 
@DmitriBudnikov I’m more interested in curbing durnk-posting
 
Blasphemy
 
int find_index(vector<string>& vec, const string& x) {
    try {
        for (int i =0; i < vec.size(); ++i)
            if (vec[i] == x) throw i;  // found x
    } catch (int i) {
        return i;
    }
    return -1;   // not found
}
lmao
 
10:14 AM
is that real
 
it's an example from the GSL "how not to use exceptions" but I find it hilarious
 
ah, ok
not a great example
 
@VermillionAzure good luck, that require quite detailed information I think
 
@LucDanton are you telling me to shut up
 
@DmitriBudnikov yes, but that’s business as usual
 
10:16 AM
@KhaledKhnifer Interesting enough the final data isn't that complex; you end up with a really large matrix. That's it, and some metadata attached to it.
 
so I have to install an upgrade for my RTC client, but before that I have to upgrade the install manager. That hangs.
rip me /cc @slaphappy
 
@DmitriBudnikov this is excellent, I like how the type that's being thrown is equivalent to the normal return type of the function; 10/10
 
From now on I'll use exceptions exclusively for control flow, the famous return-by-exception style.
 
@DmitriBudnikov that’s what those OCaml classes taught you after all
 
10:18 AM
Exception oriented programming is the next big thing
it's for exceptional programmers
 
CP.simd: SIMD
???
SIMD rule summary:
- ???
- ???
great advice
 
@VermillionAzure neural networks can simply problems that has statistical input, through deep learning.
 
@ScarletAmaranth it's quite catchy after all
 
@KhaledKhnifer That's what you think but for some reason the people that I work with don't primarily use deep learning.
It's applicable towards certain things from what I understand but the learning process might require more data than you might actually have.
 
@AndyProwl indeed, it will definitely overthrow OOP
 
10:20 AM
good pun
 
@DmitriBudnikov you should try one too
 
@KhaledKhnifer The group I work with has some specialty in single-cell RNA sequencing data analysis for which data sets should be quite unique since we are essentially analyzing one cell
 
> Robert Ménard, "l'homme qui lit dans les crottes de chiens"
allons bon
 
@KhaledKhnifer But then again... we are often testing for correlation...
 
10:25 AM
> Why don't ants get sick?
Because they have little anty-bodies.
laff
 
joined SO after me
and he has 26,496 answers
this is just... wat.
 
> PHP
 
How do I manage state transitions generically with passing of contexts/information between states cleanly?...
 
Do you write these things just to whore stars?
 
No I'm serious
 
10:26 AM
user image
7
 
@VermillionAzure monads
StateT s m a -> StateT s' m a is/can be totes a thing
 
@fredoverflow that looks like an awesome building to me
 
look at this clown:
-1
Q: The Infamous 'Delete Message' Feature in SE Chat

editionIn the past I have compulsively deleted my messages in the Lounge< C++ > room out of fear that my comments may not be received too well by the room participants. However, people became increasingly annoyed since they could never read my deleted messages unless they contacted the moderator of the...

 
@BartekBanachewicz What's m a?
 
@VermillionAzure it's not m a, it's m a (no really it's not m a, it's StateT over some s, some monad m, and producing a)
 
10:29 AM
lol
 
@BartekBanachewicz Oh so it's more like StateT(s m) => a?
Ohhhhhhh
 
@VermillionAzure no, a is a part of StateT. StateT s m a is a monad "n = StateT s m" over a, so "n a"
 
ow.
so what would m and a be?
 
instance Monad (StateT s m) where ...
@VermillionAzure m is your context you wanted to retain. a is irrelevant in general, it's just the monadic return a.
 
Oh.
I also wanted advice on how to cleanly decide upon the types that would fulfill m
 
10:32 AM
inb4 Cinch monad tutorial
 
you could easily make it StateT s m () -> StateT s' m (), but why limit yourself to that if you can put a there.
 
Because m can vary between the types of transitions
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes yes please
 
@VermillionAzure MonadX m => StateT s m a -> StateT s' m a
where MonadX is your TMC
 
@BartekBanachewicz TMC?
 
10:33 AM
Transformer Monad Class
or just any other class you need on m really
 
@DmitriBudnikov Went looking for it, found only this:
Feb 11 at 14:29, by VermillionAzure
Speaking about monads... wouldn't it be sort of a nightmare to implement a dynamically linked monad implementation?
5
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes lol
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes this is great
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes ow
 
oh, I suspect humor isn't really tolerated on meta.
 
10:35 AM
@BartekBanachewicz why did you use the => for the first arrow anyways?
 
...
robot halp
inb4 you brought this on yourself
 
=> is a lambda thing, isn't it?
 
@VermillionAzure it's the constraint.
@edition no. ^
joint forces of edition and cinch strike
 
@BartekBanachewicz That was well inb4d.
 
brave bartek holds the haskell stronghold armed just with a monad gun
 
10:36 AM
I think it would be possible to implement a Cinch sentence generator
 
markov chains all the way
 
> MonadX m => StateT s m a -> StateT s' m a

MonadX is a type constructor with parameter m such that it is a monad => monad' where monad = StateT(s m a) and monad' = StateT (s' m a) ?
 
DerpillionAzure
 
> se although those two operations are sufficient a dynamically linked monad to instead wrap types and the functionality, a typeclass hierarchy and the constuctor because although those two operation? I think they should be a nightmare to have to do static
example output.
 
10:39 AM
next Lounge project: Cinchmulator
 
very limited sample though, if you actually scraped the chat history properly you'd get much better results
> a typeclass hierarchy and then go from a struct into a polymorphic multi-level class
this sounds totally legit though
@VermillionAzure no, MonadX is a class which m must satisfy
9 mins ago, by VermillionAzure
I also wanted advice on how to cleanly decide upon the types that would fulfill m
why did you even ask this question
 
it was a direct response to it
 
@BartekBanachewicz I didn't understand the answer, monads.
 
anyway this is just it really in practice
if you have a language where state is an explicit context you have control over the state transitions
specifically, the state type is actually a static type.
not that the example is so overgeneralized it's practically useless but
 
10:55 AM
> haskell
SCORE 300 POSTS 100
ah damn now I don't want to post to ruin the perfect ratio
 
Ell
@AndyProwl that would be interesting
 
I seem to think monads are slightly analogous to chemical elements.
I still don't know what a monad is.
 
@edition it's a contextful computation from a practical PoV
 
@BartekBanachewicz hmm ok.
 
11:02 AM
@VermillionAzure you really shouldn't be teaching monads to anyone
 
@BartekBanachewicz No I'm reading the explanation paper for it
Why are there only two? Don't some list 3?
 
no, there's bind and return and that's that.
However you can build fmap out of that as well.
 
Oh
so bind is kind of like "compose and propagate/annotate side-effect"?
 
@VermillionAzure yeah
 
@BartekBanachewicz oh
is there a great way to do (a -> b) -> (a -> M b) ?
 
11:06 AM
@VermillionAzure fmap return I think
Prelude> :t fmap return
fmap return :: (Monad m, Functor f) => f a -> f (m a)
 
> Software carpenter
what the fuck
 
ya know, for building houses
 
@BartekBanachewicz fmap applies monads to function return types?
 
we had a picture and everything
 
git plank
 
11:07 AM
oh okay monads are simpler now.
 
@VermillionAzure fmap applies anything to the function's return.
 
@BartekBanachewicz oh.
 
@VermillionAzure No, you misunderstood that.
look, m != f there
f == (a ->), m can be any monad (your M)
 
ah i'm confused
 
6
Q: Attending a Strip Club after hours on a business trip

user49630Is it appropriate to attend a strip club after hours during a business trip? My employer and/or our client has paid my travel and lodging expenses however I also feel what I do after work is my own business. Thoughts?

 
11:09 AM
but basically fmap sticks g into f?
 
@VermillionAzure f b -> f (m b) == (a -> b) -> (a -> m b)
where f == (a ->)
 
ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
 
it's Functor instance for functions
not really that trivial if you're not used to it
 
@BartekBanachewicz So say I want to turn my functions {f, g, h} into monad-supporting ones. I could fmap them?
If their types are simply (a -> b)
So it'd be something like fmap M {f, g, h} ?
 
> Why Allah created Germs?
@Zoidberg
> What do we have to do if we found a dead body somewhere?
lol
> Porn or Music what should I avoid
> If the wine in heaven doesn't get you drunk, what's the point of having alcohol in heaven then?
 
Ell
11:13 AM
Monads are Functors anyway right
@DmitriBudnikov lol, dat choice
 
@DmitriBudnikov and the naysayers claim you don’t need religion to receive guidance—what do they do when they find a dead body huh?
 
user1804599
@DmitriBudnikov because Allah is a fucking asshole
 
Ell
Call the popo
 
Equal rights for E. coli
 
user1804599
11:18 AM
With his fat wiener.
 
@AndyProwl don't CC your RTC woes, we're a git shop now
 
@VermillionAzure every pure function can be used in monadic context. Typically you want to keep your functions as, well, functions
 
@BartekBanachewicz I see...
 
@DmitriBudnikov edit the typo to read "Germans"
 
I feel like I should study lambda calculus more... the paper that explains the monads uses the syntax a bit heavily...
I'm reading up on it now and I feel like it's extremely elegant
 
11:38 AM
> Thus, the negative elements of wine - the stench and intoxicating nature - will be removed and only the good aspects will remain.
 
like, C macros don't work because they don't have alpha conversion or true beta conversion
 
> I used to play music a lot but since it is haram i left it , now before apart from my studies and salat I used to play music in my free time.
@DmitriBudnikov is this even racist to call those people idiots
 
@slaphappy I know. But I thought you might still empathize
 
@AndyProwl I do. Why is your shop still using this horror though?
 
Because "convenient"
bug tracker integrated in VCS and stuff + "we already used ClearCase"
(that should actually be a strong reason for switching, but well)
 
11:41 AM
lol
so, because your coworkers suck basically?
 
that's my view
there might be more than that
including the fact that we have our own build system which is strongly dependent on RTC
(IOW more coworkers sucking)
but that's outsourced now so I'm not even sure I can speak about coworkers
 
@VermillionAzure In the end, we're back to beginning and your C++ program; you don't understand functions.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Wait you mean you just want me to organize my code?
 
it's not "just"
 
user1804599
@slaphappy Is a coworker like, an employer?
 
11:44 AM
it's a delicate and complex matter that most programmers utterly fail in
 
user1804599
The dual of a worker.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Well what's the best way to simplify it?
hmmmm
 
@AndyProwl WTH is RTC?
 
very meta
 
@VermillionAzure books have been written to answer this question
that's my point
 
11:47 AM
@Griwes IBM's VCS
 
oh God
kill it
kill it with fire
before it lies eggs
 
I wish I could
 
Does the "R" in that name have something to do with "Rational"?
If it does, kill it with an atomic bomb and never look back.
 
you mean RUP
 
@Griwes sure
Rational Team Concert
 
11:50 AM
@AndyProwl lolololol
 
ikr
 
wow, a terrible name for an undoubtedly terrible project
I had some contact with Rational Rhapsody here at work.
 
@BartekBanachewicz rmmm
 
Let me tell you, this is the worst shit ever developed.
 
let me come back
 
11:51 AM
@Griwes please don't tell me what that is
 
@AndyProwl An UML modelling tool for real-time applications.
One that is also obviously terrible at its job.
And generates some of the most absurdly bad code I've seen.
 
did you miss the "don't" in my request
 
Oh, and doesn't generate the code in any deterministic way.
You can run it twice and get all the things in a different order.
 
lol
 
11:53 AM
lol
 
@AndyProwl yes, I did, on purpose
 
Hi, does anyone know how to detect button presses like f5 for example with c++ ?
 
@Gerwin butt presses?
 
has anyone tried UpSource
@Gerwin OS-dependent. Need more context for the application.
 
11:54 AM
press
 
for windows & mac
 
That reminds me.
 
@DmitriBudnikov post-SAB decorating
 
@Gerwin What is the application developed with? Some cross-platform toolkit?
 
Apr 21 at 6:16, by Dmitri Budnikov
And then He said: let there be Rules. And there were.
 
11:55 AM
c++ & build to dll & dylib
@BartekBanachewicz
 
@DmitriBudnikov oh, thanks to scribing adjustments this reportedly comes to be about 1k gold worth of crafting
 
@Gerwin you didn't answer my question
 
As far as I know it's not developed with a cross-platform toolkit
I'm making a plugin for OBS
 
@Gerwin then use the APIs of your respective OS'es.
 
are there any handy libs to use?
 
12:00 PM
@Gerwin mm, Qt?
but wait, from where are you gonna get those keys
because getting keys sent to a window and global keys is kinda different
 
well to explain - a window is opened, and I want another sub-window to open when I press a button in said window
 
@Gerwin natively?
 
yes
 
4
A: How to record keystrokes on Windows [C++]

Nick DandoulakisProbably the easiest way is to use the AttachThreadInput function. Use GetWindowThreadProcessId to get a thread id from a window handle.

that's for windows
but I'd expect OBS plugin API to give you that information
 
OBS has terrible documentation
it makes me want to cry
it's giving me headaches
their developers are very very unfriendly aswell
 
12:04 PM
lol someone made a plugin that shows your heart rate
 
yup
 
dunno I've tried to use obs yesterday and it totally killed the perf on my laptop so
i guess no streaming for me from here
 
hmm that sucks
 
I'm already on lowest quality settings because it tended to overheat otherwise
and I'd like some perf headroom anyway
 
@BartekBanachewicz Hey
You savvy on compile-time string manipulation?
 
12:13 PM
@VermillionAzure what do you want now?
 
...you know what I should just do it myself
 
sounds hell lot like X/Y problem
 
@BartekBanachewicz I want Python's string formatting in C++.
At compile time.
 
...
what for?
 
Because I wanted better string manipulation
I don't want to have to use printf and get formatting errors because I typed the string wrong and my prompt function isn't good enough.
 
12:18 PM
@VermillionAzure There are readily available formatting libraries on the internet. Use one of them.
alternatively use iostreams.
 
Ven
Here goes my flag cherry.
That was a pretty shitty flag
 
@VermillionAzure cppformat
hmm, not at compile time, but fuuuuuck that
 
This song is amazing. spotify:track:0QUyvb5N5uXrLVHtLKCxqj
 
12:30 PM
you're the best @nwp you're the mvp :P
 
The sign behind clearly says "castrate". Seems a little harsh, but I'm terrible at management... https://twitter.com/sharethrougheng/status/663806112857112577
@Gerwin nwp != mvp
Closer to vmp
 
haha ^^
Virtually Most Powerfull? @Sehe
 
@Gerwin I like the "JustWorks" factor well enough
 
most vexing professional
 
haha :P
 
12:37 PM
@VermillionAzure boost format. Done
 
@sehe After looking at tinyformat's page I'm not so confident in boost format
 
Easy. Don't look at tinyformat's page all the time
 
user1804599
YMCA > DMCA
 
generic information passing structure go
 
user1804599
@AndyProwl most valuable parse
 
12:40 PM
Is main() {} valid C (or C++?)
 
@Zoidberg somewhat
 
user1804599
@DmitriBudnikov No.
 
user1804599
It's valid C89, though.
 
"valid" - well formed, still UB there
 
user1804599
No, it isn't UB.
 
user1804599
12:41 PM
It's UB to call main and then read its result.
 
user1804599
Ignoring its result or not calling it at all isn't UB.
 
Well, is "not calling it" it not the definition of "well-formed but undefined"
 
@LucDanton Very cool.
 
user1804599
int f() { } // no UB
void g() { f(); } // no UB
void h() { std::cout << f() << '\n'; } // UB
 
Ven
accessing the result would be UB, though
 
12:44 PM
I should've said: is main() {} a valid C program.
 
user1804599
Not anymore.
 
user1804599
It's ill-formed.
 
user1804599
C99 and C11 no longer assume int in such places.
 
@Zoidberg so snippet 2 is UB in C++ but on in C?
 
user1804599
@AndyProwl It's not UB in either.
 
Ven
12:45 PM
@AndyProwl C++ adds an implicit return 0;
 
@Zoidberg it is UB in C++
 
user1804599
@Ven No, only to main. Not to f.
 
Ven
@Zoidberg the question was about main
 
user1804599
@AndyProwl [citation needed]
 
user1804599
12:45 PM
@Ven No, it wasn't.
 
Ven
4 mins ago, by Dmitri Budnikov
Is main() {} valid C (or C++?)
 
@Zoidberg something something 3.6.... 1? not sure. Wait
 
user1804599
It was about g.
 
Ven
clearly missing int, but it is main
 
user1804599
@Ven That's a different question.
 
Ven
12:45 PM
ah, ok
 
user1804599
It isn't the question referred to by Andy 'Prowl' Starfish.
 
jesus fucking christ yes or no
 
Ven
@DmitriBudnikov no, you need a return. (also the implicit int will not work in "recent" C)
 
@Zoidberg 6.6.3/2
 
user1804599
@DmitriBudnikov I've said no three times.
 
12:46 PM
compiles though
 
> Flowing off the end of a function is equivalent to a return with no value; this results in undefined behavior in a value-returning function.
 
user1804599
@AndyProwl TIL
 
Ven
@DmitriBudnikov why are you compiling in C++?
@AndyProwl got a link?
 
I'm not compiling in C++
 
@Ven it's the paragraph of the Standard
wait there was this online version
 
Ven
12:47 PM
@AndyProwl eel.is/draft , found it
 
yeah, here
 
Ven
@DmitriBudnikov try -pedantic.
"is cv void" can you really cv-qualify void? Oo
 
@Ven Not my point
 
Ven
@DmitriBudnikov ok
@AndyProwl Thanks, TIL!
 
Ven
12:49 PM
There's more UB than meets the eyes.
 
 
@DmitriBudnikov Fully compilant C
 
nwp
@sehe did you 2 get a room or was there back paddling?
 

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