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2:00 PM
#pwner
 
I onced nenenene'd a room owner and she binned my stuff. ;~;
 
1 message moved from bin
 
@thecoshman that cute
 
2:01 PM
time to figure out why this glMultiDrawElements call is failing hard/producing garbage
 
user406009
Clearly we need a proletariat revolution! We, the non-owners of Lounge have been oppressed. It is time to rise up and seize the means of star production!
 
@Borgleader Mine is just producing blank nothing. :D
 
user406009
I propose a new room!
 
user406009
 
But I have class in 8 minutes so I can't figure it out.
 
2:02 PM
@Lalaland IRC master race!
 
dahell is that
 
@AndyProwl ... IRC, it's like this place, but without all the shit that isn't chat
 
@thecoshman I mean that blackjack and hookers thing
 
user406009
@AndyProwl Futurama reference.
 
2:04 PM
@Lalaland Salvador Limones, is that you?
 
@AndyProwl yeah, it's chat :D
 
rephookers
 
user1804599
Should I allow logging of empty messages?
 
user1804599
Yeah sure why not.
 
2:06 PM
seems like a silly thing to waste time trying to prevent
 
@Borgleader As luc would have it
 
@elyse What does an empty message mean?
 
Make that a painting and sell it for 1.5 million $
 
2:08 PM
at this point im starting to doubt the obj loading thing i found on github.
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva so a kid can stumble and punch a whole in it? ;)
 
@Borgleader hint: obj is really limited... don't invest too much time in it
 
@EtiennedeMartel "" prolly
 
@thecoshman Yeah but obj is dumb and simple
 
Yeah, but I mean, from a purely philosophical standpoint, what information can you get from an empty message in the log?
"Something happened at this point in time, but I can't tell you what"
 
user406009
@EtiennedeMartel Could be used just as a spacer.
 
user406009
2:09 PM
For formatting.
 
log files are not presentation reports
 
user406009
@sehe I am talking about for quick and dirty debugging.
 
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva I start around now every weekday.
 
> formatting
> quick and dirty
which is it
 
user406009
Adding spaces between lines is a way of quickly adding some formatting, so you can tell things apart.
 
2:13 PM
@Mysticial What timezone lol
 
@Mysticial that wasn't the question :)
 
user406009
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva I think "now" is the same in every timezone.
 
^^
 
yeah but the number changes
 
@Lalaland hehehe. So you get to be pedantic
 
2:14 PM
Yeah @Andy nailed it
 
I usually start somewhere between 8 - 9 AM Chicago time. And end between 7 - 8 PM.
 
How much is a Chicago time in standard time
 
twice as long as Chicada time
 
Do you work on weekends?
@AndyProwl ayyyyy
b by u know wat else is twice as long
 
lol
 
2:16 PM
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva the twin towels
 
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva No idea. Google it.
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva No
 
@Mysticial It was a joke, you answered my question, thanks
 
Then _what_ are you working.
He's not working on the cure to cancer, aaaand he's not working on weekends...
Baffled
 
sehe the punster
 
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva Hehe
Quick survey of the day: light or dark theme?
 
2:23 PM
Light during the day dark at night
 
@Rerito both
 
I've noticed dark themes are less headache inducing to me
 
Xeo
@Rerito dark
 
user406009
Dark.
 
Roasted
 
user1804599
2:27 PM
typealias Boolean = [T: *](deferred T, deferred T) => T
sub true[T: *](deferred then: T, deferred else: T): T { then }
sub false[T: *](deferred then: T, deferred else: T): T { else }
 
Xeo
Sigh. Now we have to abandon our type-safe any in favour of... blind casts, because UE4 can't deal with RTTI at some place or other.
Fuck this aversion against RTTI in gamedev.
 
MUH PERFROMANCE
 
@Xeo Boost.TypeIndex
 
Xeo
ha ha
 
2:29 PM
err
 
Xeo
Take a guess why I'm laughing
 
no
 
@Xeo Didn't UE have its own RTTI?
 
user1804599
Because you got a segfault.
 
err
 
2:29 PM
I never really understood this aversion towards RTTI.
 
yes
 
Xeo
@Abyx Kinda no maybe yes
 
I confused myself.
 
I need some help with OpenGL.
 
Xeo
They have some kind of self-supplied RTTI on their own classes, but yeah.
 
2:30 PM
HELP VAMPIRE!
 
user1804599
like LLVM :D
 
@Xeo ah so you wanna use RTTI for stuff like int/std::string/etc
 
You need to self-supply boost.type_index's info when RTTI is not on, but well, it works.
 
Xeo
@Abyx yes.
 
user1804599
nah
 
user1804599
2:30 PM
making Booleans functions is a terrible idea
 
user1804599
you cannot compare them for equality
 
Xeo
We need RTTI mainly for carrying parameters across virtual functions.
 
If you do FP properly...
 
Xeo
It's basically a map<string, any>
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I would love to help, but I cant even make this gl::MultiDrawElement call work so i doubt I will be of any use to you.
 
2:31 PM
I have a buffer with what will be y-coordinates for n "horizontallish" line strips. It's laid out like <y-coordinates for line0>, <y-coordinates for line1>, ..., <y-coordinates for linen>.
 
@Xeo Lua called...
 
why linen and not cotton
 
The x-coordinates for all lines are just integers from 0 to L
 
user1804599
> disable RTTI because performance
> use map<string, any>
 
Xeo
@elyse That's our stuff.
We didn't disable RTTI
UE has it disabled by default
 
user1804599
2:32 PM
Your code is bad and you should feel bad.
 
If I just inject x coordinates into the buffer, so it's like <xy-coordinates for line0>, <xy-coordinates for line1>, ..., <xy-coordinates for linen>, it's too slow.
 
@Xeo Can't you force enable it? :/
 
So I'm wondering if I can put the x coordinates in some pregenerated buffer and then reuse it.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes 1D texture?
 
I have that already.
 
Xeo
2:34 PM
@Griwes We tried. So far that has worked fine. With 4.9, they screwed something up
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Is 0-L a fixed size?
 
Why even store the coordinate? Calculate it in your shader
 
@Borgleader No. Depends on screen size, or other external factors (sampling rate, network lag, etc)
 
Xeo
and we're kinda done dealing with that shit. It's annoying me to no end, but eh.
 
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva From what?
This is WebGL, so no gl_VertexID.
No geometry shader either.
 
Xeo
Oh yeah, here's a fun Q&A related to the topic at hand: answers.unrealengine.com/questions/239744/…
 
@Xeo does it need to be any-like? Couldn't you get away with variants/your own tagged union
 
> I am sure if we receive enough future demand for the change we would, but currently it is not on the road map.
Ugh.
What a moron.
 
Xeo
@sehe Kinda, yeah. But that'd mean adding an entry for every type that needs to be used - think enums that are constantly added and passed
 
It's not like it can change any fucking behavior in their fucking code.
And if it can that just means they are terrible at this programming thing.
 
2:35 PM
@AnastasiyaAsadullayeva Yeah, that was my first attempt, but nope.
 
They still need to test it
 
Xeo
So the plan is to just convert those enums to integers and back (at the point of setting and getting) and go with string / bool / int
just to not have to deal with UE's bullshit anymore
 
user1804599
Use a dynamically typed language like Lua or Python for that part. :>
 
good morning everyone
 
> RTTI is generally not used in games, due to the amount of extra data it generates and links into your executable, for every polymorphic type, even if you don't use end up using RTTI on that type.
> Game engines usually produce their own runtime reflection solutions which are tuned to the individual needs of the engine, like we do with the UObject system. And so, we probably didn't have any Mac users who needed that before.
lol
 
Xeo
2:37 PM
8 mins ago, by Xeo
Fuck this aversion against RTTI in gamedev.
 
"How to be terrible at programming", vol. 1, page 326
 
Xeo
It's so stupid.
 
Now the problem I have is as follows: I do glDrawArrays(GL_LINE_STRIP, 0, L);, line0 draws fine. But glDrawArrays(GL_LINE_STRIP, L, L); to draw line1 doesn't, because it tries to get the x-coordinate for element L and there's no such thing.
 
It's beyond stupid.
 
@Xeo yeah, my rule of thumb is: reserve erasure for a very limited set of common types.
I guess that philosophy conflicts with the code you already have, now. It leads to explicit marshaling, but this story makes me reinforce the mental note: even thought languages seem to support tight language-level bindings, beware
 
2:38 PM
@Xeo RTTI as in using typeinfo or as in using dynamic_cast<>?
 
Xeo
@wilx latter
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Does WebGL have VBOs? Could you do one VBO for 0-L, and one for the y coordinates and reuse the vbo for X coordinates for all your draws?
 
I'm kind of surprised that putting pairs of coordinates (2xfloat2? 2xfloat4?) is too slow though. What's the type of the y-coordinate? If float4, can you reuse the 4th component to store the x index?
 
Xeo
wait, you mean the aversion
both
 
47 secs ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
Now the problem I have is as follows: I do glDrawArrays(GL_LINE_STRIP, 0, L);, line0 draws fine. But glDrawArrays(GL_LINE_STRIP, L, L); to draw line1 doesn't, because it tries to get the x-coordinate for element L and there's no such thing.
 
Xeo
2:38 PM
any "unnecessary information" thingy
 
@Borgleader That's my latest attempt.
 
@Xeo Well, it costs something, since it has to traverse type_info.
 
@Xeo butt purrformance!
@wilx It only costs something when you actually execute it.
 
Xeo
@sehe For a limited set, you can just use a variant
the erasure was perfect for the unbounded set
 
@Borgleader For line1, it needs to grab elements [L, 2L) from the y-buffer, and [0, L) from the x-buffer. Is that understandable?
 
Xeo
2:39 PM
@wilx I don't give a fuck
 
@Xeo So the point of my rule of thumb (wearing architect cap) is to keep the set limited - by force
 
glDrawArrays always grabs the elements from the same indices for all attributes.
 
Xeo
@sehe Meh.
 
Yeah too late for that [bla] and breaking change [blo] - I know
 
Xeo
That's just a giant "meh" for me. I don't get that reasoning.
 
user1804599
2:40 PM
template<typename... Ts>
using variant = std::tuple<boost::optional<Ts>...>;
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes yeah but it wouldnt be a problem if you had one vbo for y coordinates per line, but that was too slow yes?
 
For it to be a reasoning there'd need to be a reason... ;p
 
fugitive for vim is really awesome
 
still not?
I guess you need to have more libraries blow up on you (let's not forget rtti issues across DLLs, ABIs etc.)
@Rerito it should be illegal
 
@Borgleader Yeah, haven't tried that yet, because it'd require a bunch of changes. I was wondering if I could get this working with some other draw function or something.
 
2:42 PM
@sehe Yeah I remember that quote from the introduction of the plugin hehehe
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes There might be, but I cant say I know of one, I'm not an opengl guru (yet) and even less so for webgl. sorry.
 
Xeo
@sehe Maybe. Maybe I'm a badlet that needs to be reeducated about this. I just found that using erasure here was very easy and did what I needed it to.
 
@Borgleader WebGL is the same, but without any of the nice features.
 
Xeo
Whatever.
Back to work
 
All the problems I've had today would have been trivially fixed with a geometry shader, or with gl_VertexID.
 
2:44 PM
Just out of curiosity @sehe, "regular" vim or gvim?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah :s
 
@Rerito both. Prefer gvim
 
OTOH, I'm almost done solving the ghost cube.
 
Xeo
ghost cubes are so crazy
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Reminded me of this for some reason:
 
2:48 PM
Robot has found the tesseract!
 
Deux Sexes.
 
I've got used to regular vim but I'm sure I would be more efficient with gvim. Gotta take the step
@EtiennedeMartel I'm waiting for the movie to come out :)
Hope they won't screw it
 
@Xeo It's quite a bitch, but it's the 3x3 mechanism. At its core it's a 3x3x3 with center orientation, nothing else. Just weird shapes.
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes yeah, I read something about that
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes queue cenobites
 
2:51 PM
Argggh this is bullshit i cant figure out whats wrong with this code
ffs T_T
 
@Borgleader lol at the windmill between two skyscrapers
 
shhhhhhhhhhhhh
 
Xeo
aaaaaa
UE terrorizing the last 10 minutes of my workday
 
@AndyProwl it's a left over from a by gone era
a reminder that this was once wide open fields
 
Xeo
localisation source gathering skips one asset for unknown reasons
 
3:04 PM
Uropean Eunion
 
I always confuse EU with UE
 
Xeo
aaaaaand the editor crashed.
 
hi
 
@набиячлевэлиь ones is spelled UE and the other is spelled EU, what's to confused?
 
@thecoshman Well "Unia Europejska" vs "European Union"
 
@EtiennedeMartel damn...
Well shit I think im using separate programs incorrectly T_T
 
posted on September 10, 2015 by Terry Mahaffey

We’ve blogged before about the benefits of Profile Guided Optimization. One of the biggest pieces of feedback we’ve received is that the instrumented binaries are too slow – making it very difficult to train certain classes of applications...(read more)

 
> One of its most recent successes, Jurassic World: The Game, launched on April 30th, 2015, and generated close to 25 million in gross revenue in the month following the movie release.
dang yo
 
People love dinosaurs.
 
Anybody here used monkeyrunner?
It's an android thing
 
3:52 PM
Is it weird to force someone to provide a non-empty name for a class (as in a string)
I guess they can just fill it with spaces
 
Depends for what
 
It would be nice to run an ELF executable easily on my android phone.
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ sanity check mostly
 
For what
 
@edition Can't you run stuff directly if you have root?
 
3:55 PM
@Prismatic the strange thing is that I could run GNU wget, without rooting my phone.
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ I have a bunch of widgets, and it seemed like a good idea to me if they all had their own name so its easier to keep track of them, especially for debugging
 
Xeo
@EtiennedeMartel Turn on subtitles
 
4:11 PM
I fucking suck, this either renders garbage or nothing at all.
 
@Borgleader Ask @ElimGarak
 
He does DX mostly
 
@Borgleader He did fix @Nooble's Icicle
 
@Borgleader opengl debugging is so twisted
Have you used APItrace or something similar?
 
@EtiennedeMartel that english captions seem good enough
 
4:20 PM
renderdoc crashes whenever i try to inspect the call
 
@Prismatic I lost The Game thanks to you
 
although I suspect im failing at this combination of separate programs + uniform buffers
 
renderdoc looks fancy. I use GL 2.x though so I've never tried it out
API trace is nice because you get a simple dump of all your GL calls... I usually start at the first frame and its not too bad isolating where something screwy is happening
 
@Borgleader Is your GL debug callback giving you any errors?
 
4:23 PM
@Borgleader Also didn't you have something working before?
 
yes, but i wasnt using uniform buffers
 
I have some Uniform Buffer code if you'd like to take a look?
ALBEIT
My shit isn't even working yet. :B
 
My Windows 10 stopped detecting my PS/2 keyboard. What the fuck
 
@jaggedSpire So I went to the CS office anyways. No way to get in Computer Vision. First question she asked me was "Are you graduating?". Answer is, of course, no. So there goes that idea. BUT! I did figure out for the Computational Linear Algebra class that there are accepted substitutes, so I can actually fulfill that requirement now.
 
I fixed that problem for now by installing Linux.
 
4:26 PM
My Star Wars blueprints book just came in
that thing is massive
5
(message split on purpose)
 
@milleniumbug What.
 
@milleniumbug my last PS/2 keyboard broke years ago when the cable unplugged from the plug
 
Seriously. All through BIOS I can press Num Lock and the keyboard changes the state of the Num Lock LED, but just as Windows login screen shows, my keyboard is locked and I can't write anything.
 
This is the worst bullshit ever
 
4:28 PM
take it as a message from jesus who's telling you to buy a new keyboard
 
you mean from Bill
or whoever's up there
lolno :P
 
The Dark Mother
 
@melak47 my pc would always freeze whenever I unplugged a PS/2 mouse / keyboard en-passant
 
> rappresentation
 
@ScarletAmaranth What happened when you castled?
 
4:38 PM
@LucDanton ooo, didn't expect anyone to realize!!! nice
 
Hm.
 
@Mr.kbok my previous keyboard was DIN with DIN to PS/2 converter :P
 
@Borgleader They have a C++ class in my school. It's supposed to be an "introductory" course.
 
@LucDanton do you play?
 
I think I can take it, not show up, and ace everything they throw at me. Shall I do that and score easy credits?
 
4:40 PM
@ThePhD Not my decision. Its your credits :)
 
Not even a tiiiny opinion one way or another?
 
Pros: ez credits
Cons: boring credits
depends how lazy you are I guess or how the rest of your workload is like
 
Take something that will actually teach you something useful. Why are you spending money on something you already know?
 
i tend to be lazy with schoolwork, or rather, i prefer to work on my own stuff
but thats me
 
@Borgleader that's everyone sane
 
4:42 PM
I only took bird courses for mandatory humanities courses and stuff like that
 
@Prismatic The way schools work in the US is they charge you a flat tuition fee rate. I don't get charged more unless I take over 21 credits.
 
@ScarletAmaranth sadly not for a long time
 
weird, renderdoc crashes with glMultiDrawElements but not with glDrawElements, I guess I'll just draw one of the meshes for now
 
@Lalaland If you read it in a hurry A is very easy to reach. 2^2 = 4, 4^2 = 16. So 16 is the square of a number that can also be reached by a square operation.
But the 'sum' sort of tips off that to be the wrong approach.
 
user406009
@Prismatic schools over here also tend to require alot of stupid classes.
 
4:52 PM
@Lalaland every uni does vOv; I am finishing my engineering title this year and I have to take philosophy :-\
 
user406009
1/5 of the credits required for graduation, are, quite frankly completly worthless.
 
and the other 4/5ths are only worthless :)
to be fair I could choose from various other stellar classes there; psychology, sociology, applied management...
 
user406009
Sociology took the prize for my most pointless class.
 
user406009
It had some stuff competition though from religion studies.
 
user406009
Stiff*
 
4:56 PM
I could sue them in Slovakia if they were to force religion studies on me :)
 
@Lalaland Just think of all those people going to liberal arts colleges, where all the classes fall into the "hopelessly worthless" range...
 
@JerryCoffin not much unlike in engineering unis :-\
 
@ScarletAmaranth Oh, that's just not true. In an engineering school, a good 0.000001 parts per million of the classes are merely hopeless.
 
@JerryCoffin fair enough
 

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