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3:00 PM
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ Yeah, now it's more clear
So sure
 
@elyse it's more about not wasting the servers time with stupid users
 
user1804599
It's like a static type system.
 
I guess HEAD could work.
 
if it's user name, you could just GET /users/<is this free> and see if you get 200 or 404
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ no, that's not right. That's for testing finding out what methods you can use on a URL
 
Oh
Then all others solutions are weird for some reason.
Especially in a flat non-hierarchical structure like PostgREST
 
3:02 PM
what you are trying to do is sort of odd in the first place.
 
It is?
It's fairly common everywhere.
 
If it's just finding out if a user name is free or not, what I said just there is the best way I think.
 
@thecoshman Apply that to a password
 
user1804599
@thecoshman no, that's OPTIONS
 
Or any other input.
 
3:03 PM
@elyse oooh yes that's the one
 
user1804599
HEAD is GET without response body.
 
user1804599
You use it for cache invalidation and the like.
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ you can validate if the password is 'good' client side... testing if it is 'valid' is tricky
 
> The HEAD method is identical to GET except that the server MUST NOT return a message-body in the response. The metainformation contained in the HTTP headers in response to a HEAD request SHOULD be identical to the information sent in response to a GET request.
 
the true REST way is to use HTTP basic auth, but that's deprsingly shit.
 
3:04 PM
@thecoshman It's for getting metadata without data.
 
@thecoshman That would duplicate the "is password good" logic on the client side and on the server side.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes yeah I know, I was getting mixed up
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ yes
 
user1804599
awful code delete it asap plx kthxbye
 
@thecoshman The idea here is more general. Input validation is not restricted to auth.
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ you have to have it server side to make sure it is actually done, you want it client side to avoid pestering the server with junk datae
 
3:06 PM
@thecoshman It's more for having immediate feedback for the user.
It's about user experience, not security nor congestion control.
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ that's another advantage, but it's also to reduce server load. In theory, the server only ever has to confirm it's all good.
 
@thecoshman It sounds like you would be making much more requests.
 
what? no, if you think that you miss understood.
 
Assuming you don't want to duplicate input validation for all types of input on both client side and server side.
 
user1804599
I have a problem and I want to solve it using logic programming but there's no good logic programming tools for this terrible platform.
 
3:08 PM
@thecoshman You were recommending duplicating the validation of input on the client side only?
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ NOOOO
you validate both BOTH client AND server side
 
No wait, I mean, without the client side making requests to the server side.
 
@thecoshman He means duplicating the code.
 
if you want fast response to the user, you HAVE to validate client side.
 
You can avoid it if you just go node.
@thecoshman With what code?
 
3:09 PM
@thecoshman Why do I have to?
 
you can't have both fast validation and avoid duplicate validation logic
 
I could make a request to the server and give the response all via JS
 
30 secs ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
You can avoid it if you just go node.
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ ... to avoid the round trip to the server
 
I'm not concerned with congestion, as I said already.
 
3:10 PM
then just send the data to the server to process normally
 
3 mins ago, by ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ
It's about user experience, not security nor congestion control.
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ Latency can be high due to external factors (slow connection, etc).
 
there's no point having a service that can validate data and another that can validate data and actually use it.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Not a problem. It's not fundamental that it works.
 
user1804599
>λ=
 
3:11 PM
@thecoshman There's, it's immediate feedback for the user.
 
user1804599
@R.MartinhoFernandes You can avoid it if you just gonad.
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ no it's not, it's AFTER a round trip to the server.
 
@thecoshman So?
Oh, you are going against the "immediate" part?
 
user1804599
@thecoshman Code reuse is easy.
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ yes, it's fast sure, but only because the server is fast and connection is fast.
 
3:12 PM
"immediate" here refers to the fact that the user doesn't have to submit the form to have feedback.
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ that sort of validation is done client side
 
Average speed is fast enough here.
@thecoshman That means duplication of code in JS and the server side language.
For all types of inputs you want to support.
1) doesn't scale well, 2) editing this logic is trouble some
 
In general, the validation logic is going to be different anyway.
 
@ScottW As I said, the time to have the roundtrip to the server is not a problem.
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ opposed to making a much more complex system that is able to validate each field asynchronously?
 
3:14 PM
You can always put the common bits in a DSL that is usable from both.
(Regices)
 
The problem originally was how to fit that in the REST context.
@R.MartinhoFernandes It is?
@R.MartinhoFernandes That could be a solution, yes.
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ screw rest, this is a stupidity problem. You are wanting to avoid having some client side logic, and instead have client side logic that polls for each field, and server side logic that can validate each field
 
scott
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ Client-side validation is often just syntactic stuff.
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ probably a lot more precise
 
3:16 PM
i just had orange juice
just so you know
 
The server tests things that involve existing data, like whether a user exists and all that.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes well that's what he wants to bring client side
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Then we are talking about different things.
 
What kind of validation are you wondering about?
 
The validation I'm talking about also takes care of unique username for examples.
That can only be checked with the server.
 
3:17 PM
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ That involves no duplication because there's only one option.
 
Or inputs that depend on the database state at that moment.
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ how do you plan to separate the server side logic that handles the entire form and the server side logic that handles validating certain feild being free?
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ Yeah, but all those can only be done on the server. There's nothing to duplicate.
 
@thecoshman You make a REST request from the JS client side to the server and give response to the user for particular fields.
 
Are monitor arms usually flexible? What I mean is, when a monitor is "sitting" on one of the "regular" ones, can I just grab it and pull it into a position that I want, or would that usually require some additional adjustment to the arm itself? (Please don't laugh if this is a silly question. :D)
 
3:18 PM
@thecoshman Er. You call one from the other.
 
Not all fields, particular fields.
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ that's meaningless. By the time the client has to submit, that could all be changed
 
@thecoshman So?
 
@thecoshman It's not meaningless. False positives are fine.
@thecoshman "User already exists" is sticky.
 
Yes, if you were to register someone might take your username before you submit, so what?
 
3:18 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes maybe, but not for all fields like that
 
How many times will that happen?
1 min ago, by ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ
Not all fields, particular fields.
 
@thecoshman So what's your point? That you have a strawman where it is meaningless?
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ or you might not use the field you wanted, because you were told it wasn't free, but when you actually submit, it now is.
 
@thecoshman Don't design the system like an idiot vOv.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes that telling a client that a field is/isn't 'free to use' at a given point in time isn't that useful.
 
3:20 PM
If you have both false positives and false negatives but you insist on considering that information, no one can help you.
 
unless you plan to keep polling, and keep updating the user on if their fields are free to use 'right now' or not.
 
@thecoshman Also that is a problem that remains even if you do client-side like you want.
With no connection to the server.
 
1 min ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
@thecoshman "User already exists" is sticky.
@thecoshman Yes, meaningless information is meaningless, but nothing here involves a design that gives it meaning (only the one in your head).
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes vOv usually sure :P
@R.MartinhoFernandes then why both working out how to get that info?
 
@Griwes I can rotate mine left-right, but rotating up-down requires using the hexagonal key thingy
 
3:21 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Not if you want it to happen on the client side, while the user is writing the input.
Or has just written the input.
 
@thecoshman Er. The point is that what you are talking about is what no one cares about.
 
@unordered_meow And pulling it forward / pushing it back?
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ How can it happen on the client unless you send the whole data ahead of time?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes jeffs on about showing a user 'live' if their entry would clash with existing records, I don't see the merit in that.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes What whole data?
 
3:22 PM
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ Whatever data you need that is on the server.
 
user1804599
> julesbond007 added torvalds to julesbond007/Android-Jigsaw-Puzzle
 
user1804599
wtf
 
@thecoshman The merit is that they register a different one vOv. Unless users on your system are short-lived and volatile, I don't see how "user already exists" is a false negative.
 
user1804599
why do people do this
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yes, you send the whole data when you need to check if it would validate once the form was submitted.
 
3:23 PM
but as I said, if you wanted to check if a field is 'in user' something like GET /<field>/<value> would work, and check the response code.
@R.MartinhoFernandes user name is not the only option here
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ But if you're roundtripping might as well just do the validation on the server and just send "yes" or "no".
@thecoshman I know. What you don't get is that the only options here are the ones where there is meaningful information. The others are strawmen.
 
19 mins ago, by ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ
@thecoshman The idea here is more general. Input validation is not restricted to auth.
@R.MartinhoFernandes That's what I'm suggesting yes.
 
Hi
 
user1804599
> #BREAKING: IS threatens to execute Croatian abducted in Egypt
 
@Griwes Don't think so, I have trouble with moving it, so probably requires unscrewing
 
user1804599
3:24 PM
RIP wilx
 
user1804599
oh wait he's czech
 
Maybe there are some better models out there
 
it also sound hideous to be submitting a form in the background... but not really doing anything with it apart from telling the client what is currently not valid...
 
@thecoshman WTF
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ I meant if a feild/value is in use
 
3:26 PM
Croissants abducted in Egypt? Scandalous
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes The problem was "how to fit that in a REST architecture".
How to expose that functionality.
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ that's basically what you are proposing, keep sending the input data over and over, but not fully process it, just return back what fields are not valid for some reason.
 
@thecoshman Here: assume a field where there's no meaningful information that can be obtained. Good. No one cares. Now: assume a field where there's meaningful information that can be obtained. Good. We're on the same page.
 
@unordered_meow Okay. Do you have like, a name of the thing you have?
 
bus
 
3:27 PM
He's talking about feilds though
 
@thecoshman Not over and over. Just when the user unfocuses from the input field in question for example. Like when you digit the username you want, then go to another field; the client would send that username, come back with "invalid username", and I would display that to the user which was filling other fields in the meantime.
And when he rereads the form, he finds a big red cross near the username, so he knows he has to find another username.
You can optimize it hoever you want really.
As I said 4 times now, congestion is not a problem.
I know you are mocking someone scott
Not sure if it's cosh or me.
:P
 
Yeah sure I'll be the cat
 
@Griwes L-04 ART
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ /validate GET endpoint?
 
3:30 PM
But yeah, something like 'get validation-report' sending the form data in the body
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes That's an option
 
Damn slow phone typing
 
@unordered_meow Thanks! I'm going to assume that that kind of stands isn't so flexible.
 
I can't think of how else to do it REST
 
Also this is all just hypothetical. I don't actually need it. It just came to my mind like that.
 
3:32 PM
The original motivation is to buy a screen, and be able to use it while laying with a laptop on the bed. :D
inb4 people start telling me that's silly
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes How would you express the particular field of that particular other endpoint though?
 
@Griwes It's not so good if you want to change positions often
 
He can send what he wants to be validated
 
@ScottW How?
 
@Mysticial - To be honest, I don't know that I've ever seen that happen. Almost all people trying to manipulate the voting system are extremely lazy. These aren't criminal masterminds we're dealing with. We're talking about people who create sock puppet accounts that have the exact same name as their main account. My personal favorite was [username]'s sock puppet that was named "[username] vote up account". — Brad Larson ♦ 6 mins ago
> My personal favorite was [username]'s sock puppet that was named "[username] vote up account".
3
 
3:33 PM
You can either use the payload,or the URI
 
@ScottW key might not be unique for the whole application.
 
@Mysticial lol
 
Get validation-report /form ID /field ID
 
And different keys might have different validation logic, and even the same key could have different validation logic for two different users for example.
 
@Mysticial brilliant
 
3:34 PM
brb registering "Mysticial vote up account"
 
Ell
@griwes yes! That's two of us!
 
:D
 
@thecoshman There's no "form ID", it's just "what I would submit with this PATCH/POST request to this other endpoint".
 
Ell
I knew bed + desk monitor wasn't niche
 
And option would be: /validate?request=post&url=/some/url and then have the body with the data.
 
3:36 PM
You need some way of know ing what each field is so you know what logic to apply
 
@ScottW hey hey hey now
it's not Ell exclusive
 
And yes, &url=/some/url would parse just fine.
 
so I don't think you should honor him calling it after him
:P
 
@thecoshman But at that point why not just have a check_only=true flag in each request
 
Sounds bad to me.... Like some sort of redirect
Well you could get the form processor to get a status report
 
3:38 PM
@MaiLongdong btw, I get a LOT of "user was removed" events - much more so than the average sockpuppet user.
 
But not very semantic or good Rest
Any way, shops
 
@Mysticial Yeah they're going through my accounts faster than I can create them
 
Ell
@Griwes he coined it originally when I had to recompile my kernel to use my USB headset
6
 
xD
> This item ships to Racibórz, Poland. Want it Friday, Aug. 7?
2 days? not terrible. Probably sitting somewhere nearby.
 
3:42 PM
@Griwes Yeah, that looks way more flexible
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ Meh, fuck REST and have <path>/validate?
 
@ScottW return *nullptr;
 
@ScottW Hehe.
 
@TonyTheLion there's no way thats real
 
3:48 PM
@Prismatic Who cares whats real, we're in Lounge<C++> :P
 
Anyway, I'm still C++ horny.
3
 
You're in the right place for C++ porn.
 
And now, more stars!
 
Working with PHP and MySQL makes you love the idea of writing C++
 
> Working with PHP and MySQL
I don't envy you
 
3:51 PM
lol
 
Still, uhh. 1.5k PLN for the screen I want to grab. :F so many thingies to buy, so not much moneys to spend...
 
@Griwes That's the game
 
@ScottW Why'd you leave yesterday? Everyone was very sad.
 
You gotta find what's really worth it.
I was thinking of starting an Ogame account.
 
But I don't want to choose! :(
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ oh you poor lost soul
 
3:53 PM
I know right
I was talking about it with a friend some days ago, and it's still fascinating as a game.
 
> > devenv /Build mynd.sln
The Application Data folder for Visual Studio could not be created.
FUCK YOU?
Fucking Visual Piece of Shit.
 
hey VS is great
 
@KalaJ No.
 
@KalaJ Don't you.
Why the fuck does an unattended build need a fucking AppData folder to be created.
Gosh.
Don't remember why I wasn't using MSBuild directly.
Let's see.
 

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