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20:00
@milleniumbug very well done diverting to something completely different
> SaveShellLayouyAs
Dem typos I'm making.
@rightfold Whatever. It's vulnerable.
I was talking rather specifically about my dislike with variables having the same name as their class.
@rightfold Return std::vector? Fail. Return any C++stdlib container? Fail. Return a reference to a container stored in a class. Ok, it works. Return your a third-party lazy range? Read the frickin' docs because you have no idea
user1804599
YES I KNOW WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE CODE SHUT THE FUCK UP ALREADY
20:05
...ok, ok, will do...
...it's still wrong though :P
@rightfold no! your trivial mistake must be beaten into until you cry to meta!
user1804599
I don't cry to meta.
user1804599
I'm not a noob.
:\ I need to learn to eat popcorn with less mess... I'll gets ants moving into my keyboard or something... and I hear they are terrible for not paying rent.
@thecoshman That's racist.
20:08
fuck, some shit head will flag me out of the room again... then go eat out their mom or something incestial.
¬_¬ maybe too far...
maybe...
@thecoshman I need a vacation - I read this sentence, and my first thought was that ants weren't terrible - but gets.
night lovers!
well... I'll be back later I think
try not to have too much fun with out me
@rightfold C# out is nice - the caller needs to write it explicitly.
I'm going to simulate it in C++ with my own class.
user1804599
Yeah ref as well.
Evening all,

for a STL map<string, int> foo;

Using insert method with data in this order.

Bob - Jim - Tom - Sarah - Jake

When I foreach through the map it is not in the order of insertion, it comes out completely different

Tom - Bob - Jim - Jake - Sarah
@loosebruce Maps are ordered containers. The data in it will always be sorted by key.
@loosebruce It's supposed to order on keys (your order is a bit weird, do you supply your own comparison function?)
But surely it would be

Bob - Jake - Jim - Sarah - Tom , if it orders alphabetically?
why do you never read manuals cicada
bad cicada, bad
20:19
Oi @AlexM. , I will quote what Mr Stroustroup says in "A Tour of C++ 11" , then you can take your assertion somewhere else :)

"MAP

The standard library offers a search tree (a red-black tree) called map

In other contexts, a map is known as an associative array or a dictionary"

No mention of ordering keys
@milleniumbug IRTA loosebruce can't reproduce
@milleniumbug ; heres my code

http://pastebin.com/xMbmt8ta
@AlexM. Guess why he's loose
holy shit I found a kinkier lenny face ( ͡͡ ° ͜ ʖ ͡ °)
@loosebruce wtf is this array<System::String ^> ^args
20:21
.NET types
C++/CLI is not C++ hth
Xeo
Xeo
anybody here want a SpeedRunners steam key?
I bought that game for 25 cents.
Xeo
Xeo
twas part of some Indie bundle for 3 bucks
@Rapptz ...worth every dollar :P
20:23
It wasn't very fun.
Xeo
Xeo
I have 239h on it
the only other game that has more hours on it is Terraria
that has 309h
@CatPlusPlus , what would you recommend to use in Visual Studio 2013 for basic C++ learning , if not CLI?
...Pastebin PRO? Why is that a thing?
@loosebruce C++
Xeo
Xeo
How about "C++"?
20:24
So just an empty project then, yea?
I recommend coliru
it's nice
Xeo
Xeo
@loosebruce I think you're confusing something here.
The "C++/CLI" thing is a .NET-compatible, Microsoft-specific derivation of C++
@Xeo , @milleniumbug - I just copied and pasted my code to that online C++ compiler and it worked fine , sans the #include "stdfax.h"
So whats the issue with using Visual Studio?
user1804599
@Xeo no
user1804599
Common Language Infrastructure
Xeo
Xeo
20:28
Hm
Right
Do you want me to install centos, make my gcc compiler and then program on emacs?
Xeo
Xeo
I knew that sounded wrong
@loosebruce It's C++/CLI that's wrong, not C++. Don't click on the CLI stuff
Xeo
Xeo
@loosebruce Nobody said that
Do you only speak in false dichotomies
user1804599
20:28
@loosebruce No. Rather Gentoo, clang and Vim.
@rightfold Whenever I read articles like this, I'm tempted to convert to Clojure.
user1804599
@fredoverflow :D
user1804599
Convert it to Mill.
I'm trying out boost.mpl
I made a method that only accepts sexy parameters coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/c4bfe6d8519bf6eb
user1804599
Should be set not vector.
20:30
MPL looks nice, but Fusion looks like some unbelievable mess.
user1804599
The order is insignificant and duplicates are redundant.
@rightfold I didn't get there yet :<
gonna get there eventually
@loosebruce wat
user1804599
Taking away properties that you don't need simplifies usage.
Ven
Ven
C++/CLI is so great.
20:31
c++. of course
Ven
Ven
... if you want to have your own place in hell
@Ven I love it. It's beside the point
user1804599
@sehe If you like C++ then you're off course.
Ven
Ven
@sehe really? it didn't look good when I looked at example. what do you like about it?
@fredoverflow Use racket or common lisp instead!
user1804599
It has a tracing garbage collector which is already a huge plus.
Ven
Ven
20:32
yeah but it just seemed like a giant hack
@Ven the integration! Of course. Mixed mode assemblies too.
@Ven C/C++/CLI
Ven
Ven
don't people use c++ because they don't want that gc? :v
@MarcoA. /microsoft
@Ven Oh I agree similar things could have been achieved with fewer core language extensions and more library cruft.
@Ven Yes, they don't
Ven
Ven
@sehe you mean .net stuff?
20:33
@Ven I use C++ w/ CLI because it's a requirement for Metro apps written in C++
user1804599
It's such a huge plus, in fact, that it turns C++ into C➕➕.
@Ven What else. CLI === .NET
Ven
Ven
@AlexM. interesting, thanks!
@CatPlusPlus , I've grown so used to thinking true/false. Perhaps I should adopt that third boolean option of "kinda true"?
Mixed mode assemblies are a pain
20:33
at least for a bridge between native C++ and w/e else you want to use to make your life easier
Ven
Ven
@sehe do you have example code using both boost and .net, mmh? :DD
@loosebruce There is this thing called fuzzy logic. Look it up.
I use a combination of C++ and C# with C++/CLI establishing the link
@CatPlusPlus They're a blessing. They allow much nicer API exposure than P/Invoke. That's such a huge slap back to C times
user1804599
@Ven it doesn't involve the web.
20:34
They don't work with Mono
Ven
Ven
@rightfold pls
@wilx , 50 shades of fuzz hmmm
@AlexM. Prezoisely. It's the unique selling point obviously and the integration layer needs to be ultra-thin (because really the whole C++/CLI area is crippling C++ and CLI at the same time). But in its niche, I love it
Objective-C++/CLI
@CatPlusPlus Do you only speak in false dichotomies straw men :)
@CatPlusPlus I think there's an initiative underway (SoC?)
20:36
If you're doing interop then get used to C interfaces :v
Ven
Ven
@milleniumbug oh yes.
Holy shit are helicopters hard in ARMA
Ven
Ven
Objective-C++, mmh. I should write something in that
@CatPlusPlus Some truth. However that doesn't hold any water for rapid prototyping
@CatPlusPlus , get an Xbox controller to use for flying, it really helps.
20:37
I wonder if the bananas are supposed to represent parantheses.
The only fun thing about it is turning off the engine midair
user1804599
@fredoverflow This is why aliens don't visit us.
@rightfold They don't? :(
user1804599
Not if people continue making banana pianos.
@milleniumbug , thanks for the suggestion. I used an unordered_map , a slight difference. Could it be the foreach, should I maybe use an interator instead?
20:42
@loosebruce lol
@loosebruce unordered_map is unordered
user1804599
> cares about ordering
> uses unordered_map
user1804599
Are you illiterate?
user1804599
It says "unordered" right there.
@loosebruce Use double instead of bool. 0 is false, 1 is true, and 0.5 is "kinda true". Oh, and NaN is FileNotFound.
Hello C++
20:46
@loosebruce Boost.Tribool
@rightfold , I don't want anything sorted after I insert. All I care about is the sequence I insert , I just don't want it being messed with.
fuzzy logic
user1804599
@loosebruce Do you care about duplicate keys?
Then don't use maps at all
user1804599
20:47
If not, use std::vector<std::pair<T, U>>.
@rightfold , each key is unique
user1804599
If yes, use Boost.MultiIndex.
@fredoverflow He needs one more banana for the missing g
user1804599
Porn
20:47
^^ Kirk
user1804599
kurkentrekker
user1804599
cork puller
@rightfold , I will check if hackerrank accepts boost lib
user1804599
> hackerrank
user1804599
be sure you check anonymously
Woody sort of word...
Bound
The dog barks but it is not a property of a tree.
Vole
Recidivist
Ah screw it I will just use a list
@loosebruce You did this to me. I wasted an entire night last time you mentioned this site
20:52
I am trying to do a 2-3 challenges a week, hence why you are all understandably pissed off with me.
Hehe. I binged... 12? of them
"Solve me first",
"Solve me second",
"Utopian Tree",
"Maximizing XOR",
"Service Lane",
"The Love-Letter Mystery",
"Lonely Integer",
"Cut the sticks",
"Angry Professor",
"Halloween party",
"Find Digits",
"Chocolate Feast ",
"Cavity Map",
"Manasa and Stones",
"ACM ICPC Team",
"Taum and B'day",
"Sherlock and Squares",
"Sherlock and GCD",
"Sherlock and The Beast",
"Filling Jars",
"Max Min",
"Song of Pi",
"Identify Smith Numbers",
23 actually
Well star my repo and send me a pull request...
Huh
I don't think that helps right
@AaronHall Your avatar looks like a swastika.
Now I'm gonna have to complete the warmups. Just 3 left
Yay moar imaginary internet points!
20:57
Oh right. I forgot about "HackerRank"
I'd never seen it before
user3010322
Dealing with HLSL on OpenGL is a niiiiightmare.
user3010322
I really need to get my cross-compiler working.
iirc Max Min gave me issues.
Wow. You remember too much detail
I'd never recall stuff like that
20:58
so wat is HackerRank?
I make it, I forget it
@AaronHall ...
Ugh online programming competition autojudge shit nonsense
21:00
It's an attitude, methinks
looks like JS
@Ven Node
Jorse Sjit
Ven
Ven
I mean, I know that's node. But I refuse to believe you can't do that in less than 20 lines in JS
P sure it has sync read
user1804599
21:01
@Ven async APIs.
Ven
Ven
fuck async APIs :)
user1804599
indeed
user1804599
The only reasonable async API is spawn :: IO () -> IO ().
@Rapptz mmm. I don't recall much issue. Wanna see mine?
3
(inb4 star)
21:04
@CatPlusPlus What shit nonsense?
Ven
Ven
I can't remember anything about the clojure koans I wrote about a year ago.
user1804599
@Brian online programming competition autojudge shit nonsense
user1804599
@Ven … except that you wrote them about a year ago.
Ven
Ven
@rightfold indeed!
21:05
they've changed the wording of the problem
Ahaha
actually though, I've never used HackerRank before but is there something wrong with their autojudge?
it's ok
@Brian I don't think so
The environment seems fair.
Unlike other sites that use GCC 4.1 or something ancient.
I like Project Euler's format better though. You just feed it the answer without worrying about the auto judge because one doesn't exist.
21:08
My site has both GCC 4.1 and GCC 4.9
@Rapptz True. However, this narrows the field of problems
4.1 is really for legacy/tradition purposes
Like 4.1 still has the useful non-standard >?= operator for instance :D
What site is that?
wcipeg.com
Oh so that's why GCC 4.1 is so common.
For people who try to program things in very odd ways.
21:09
Loads of crap
Everyone is making online judges for universities. @refp was working on one. And someone else too
I actually think that's a good idea
Well not anymore.
I actually thought about it for more than 5 seconds.
@Rapptz Me too. It's probably slightly ineffective that everyone is reinventing the wheel
Yeah GCC 4.1 is the last GCC that supports a lot of standard-uncompliant hacks that are useful in competitive programming I think
@Rapptz The one refp was working on was horribly horribly overengineered
21:11
Nerds
> competitive programming
RIP
Like just including iostream and deque and getting basically the whole standard library
...
user1804599
should be UB
:P
21:12
I just solve the problems.
Me too
user1804599
C++ needs #exclude.
#elude (as in ! #prelude)
The only problem I have with online judges for university is it doesn't teach how to compile. On one hand it's not too important but on the other hand I think it's good to learn how to compile multiple files to one executable.
I think many of these judges cannot be used interactively/are very inconvenient to use that way
21:14
I think it's also inconvenient that most of the hobbyist online judges (SPOJ for example) don't let you submit multiple files
It makes it a lot less convenient to prepare your own libraries and stuff
The university projects are usually more a grading tool/pre-scan/{unit,conformance,compliance} test wanking thing
@Brian I think that's the point. Level playing field. Core language skills
@sehe I don't see why I shouldn't be allowed to code my own red-black tree once and use it wherever I want
Of course you can just paste it into every submission (it's probably naturally header-only) but that's still annoying
user1804599
because implementing red–black trees is a stupid thing to do
6
The point is to use standard library facilities
You actually need it in some rare cases, trust me
std::set and std::map don't let you look up the rank of a key
user1804599
21:16
> rare cases
'rank'?
user1804599
> every submission
Ven
Ven
did you hear, @sehe? you need to trust that guy
also, new avatar hype
sehe didn't change his avatar
Ven
Ven
.
21:17
looks the same to me O_o
what was it before?
@Ven Thanks for noticing!
although I gotta say
sehe's does appear like it's higher res now
must be my imagination
Ven
Ven
:v
also I notice some cel shading
@Ven he did change it right
stop making fun of me
Nov 28 '13 at 23:41, by BartoszKP
don't you people check md5 on each avatar regularly? :|
Oct 17 '14 at 19:00, by BartoszKP
@sehe hi! I see a new avatar - very nice!
21:23
It's really quite simple when you read the source.
Xeo
Xeo
Om nom nom, raspberry-banana yoghurt.
Ell
Ell
damn now I'm gonna ave to avayoghert
I'm gonna write a script to constantly check for changes in sehe's avatar or sth
Good idea
user1804599
No, you're not.
21:30
Liar! He is
And it's extremely simple
Until my email address changes (ask robor)
user1804599
Do you remember who gave you the idea for that avatar?
Yes. As you do too
user1804599
:(
i dont
care, as usual
:)
user1804599
21:35
I nibbled on a beautiful cock today.
user1804599
It was delicious.
that's telkitty
Ven
Ven
>_>
Lounge<Rightfold's Hunger>
@Rapptz Hah. Just traced one judge testcase to require "three o' clock" (instead of "three o'clock"). That's p. bad
yikes
21:42
it's already mentioned in the discussion thread. I wonder whether that's enough. I'll suggest a rewording
Ell
Ell
I wonder if I can use the sc3k music in C:S
user1804599
@Ven I'm more worried about mine than anyone else's.
Ven
Ven
@rightfold o rly :)
user1804599
O’Reilly
21:46
@rightfold roughly the same as we did now
user1804599
I'm so sorry sehe sehe sehe sehe sehee.
there we go
now I don't feel retarded
:D
Ell
Ell
What is the consensus on passing a "large" object to a function?
where it will just be observed an not modified
const T& or T?
user1804599
Nobody gives a fuck.
Ell
Ell
I always wonder if that implies const T& must be kept alive
user1804599
Some people prefer T some people prefer T const& it doesn't matter unless it's non-copyable really.
user1804599
By-value is safer and easier to reason about because there's fewer aliases.
user1804599
And also shorter to type.
if you use it with value semantics, I'd use T unless you have performance issues. If you have performance issues I'd use T const&, but instead of using that directly I'd use a type alias that resolves to it. I like value_ref<T>. This way the function documents that it is taking by reference only as an optimization.
user1804599
21:50
But const T& makes explicit that you only want to observe the value and don't really need a copy.
Ell
Ell
but it doesn't say how long I want to observe it for
@AndyProwl I like this I think
The issue with T const& is that the function signature doesn't tell you if the function is using the object with value semantics or with reference semantics. By default, if you need a value, pass by value.
Ell
Ell
though it's rather non standard
literally wot
user1804599
Use Rust or a language that requires a tracing GC if you're so worried about lifetimes.
Ven
Ven
21:51
:P
Literally this
Ven
Ven
rust works pretty well, if you're ready to spend the time
user1804599
Not something UB-riddled like C++.
@Rapptz So... that's what competitive programming is, then?! Fixing:
21:52
@Ell Nobody gives a shit is the consensus.
Ell
Ell
@Puppy clearly I do :P
lol
yes, but you're inferior
that's why you're asking us for advice.
Ell
Ell
You're still wrong :P
your question is in it's entirety a pointless premature optimization.
"large object"? what a worthless concept.
user1804599
21:53
your cock isn't a large object
come on the star is unnecessary
Ell
Ell
sorry, "mahoosive object"
there's only two kinds of objects: those whose copy constructors show up in my profiler, and those who don't.
large has nothing to do with it
@AndyProwl stars are rather large objects
Ell
Ell
out of interest, would an optimising compiler avoid the copy?
ie do "const T&" under the hood
21:55
everybody avoids it
It's not very sociable
@sehe True that
@Ell Not... really.
Why are you guys complicating this.
the problem is ABIs and Standard limits on copy elision.
It's astounding.
Ell
Ell
21:55
@Rapptz curiosity
the compiler would need some very serious proving power going on to actually do it.
Is this the highest level of bikeshedding?
We're not complicating. It's really simple. If you need a value you pass by value, unless you have a performance problem.
"performance"? It's not just performance.
Ell
Ell
I'm just curious is all vOv
I'm sorry rapptz
21:56
@rightfold I'm disappoint
@AndyProwl That's pretty much it.
user3010322
And in the cases where you don't need a value, you use a reference.
user3010322
All other cases should be accompanied by documentation.
@Rapptz What else than a performance issue would prevent you from taking by value when the function only cares about the value?
Ell
Ell
I wonder if sims 1 complete collection works on linux
21:57
I'm not being dragged into this.
Ell
Ell
> Rating Garbage
Taking by reference is ambiguous: as a caller you don't know if the function really cares about the address or just about the value at that address. You're forced to think about lifetime.
Ell
Ell
:'(
@AndyProwl Yep.
The fact puppy is agreeing with you does set red flags though.
21:58
Not at all
That's a great argument
I'm not arguing.
Sorry I didn't mean as in arguing. I meant that it's not a great point
It wasn't meant to be.
You're right. You're not being dragged into this.
Your plunging in head-first
21:59
ikr
Never mind
I blame this music.
Have a mind
I'm listening to auld lang syne

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